drone

[+Fabisa11]

I would like to know if among you some use a drone to locate places difficult to access. if this is the case, I would like to know which model of drone would be the most suitable.
Thank you and excuse my bad english

[+Touchstone]

My son has a Parrot Bebop, which has about a 2 km range and a battery life in the 20 minute range.  I think he would have preferred a DJI if he could have afforded it.

Make sure you check local and national/federal regulations for your area.  Judging from your Profile stats, I'd guess France as your home location, which has similar flight restrictions (maybe a bit tougher), than the U.S.  For us, the main issue is the 5 mile limit to nearby airports.  Our home is just outside one such radius, so we can fly his drone in our backyard which abuts up to a closed off preserve, which we've done some high, line of site fly overs, which was kind of fun.  Some parks in our area have drone friendly rules, while others have no fly policies.  Make sure you check before you fly, or you could have your drone confiscated and receive a hefty fine.

[+geocat_]

Just curious, how exactly would you use a drone to either place or log a cache?

[+cerberus1]

3 hours ago, geocat_ said:

Just curious, how exactly would you use a drone to either place or log a cache?

There's a (really) high concrete railroad support cache in another state that was popular a few years ago.  The wording in the cache page mentions a helicopter, and I always thought a remote control model with an electromagnet or claw would access it much easier than a couple hundred feet of rope attempting solo (a friend did it w/o me).  I'd expect todays tech to make that idea more realistic.   

[+Fabisa11]

16 hours ago, geocat_ said:

Just curious, how exactly would you use a drone to either place or log a cache?

No the drone would not be used to log a cache but only used to make a finding on the paths or access possible to arrive safely on foot during climbing for example on rocky peaks or other

[+Manville Possum]

14 minutes ago, fabisa11 said:

No the drone would not be used to log a cache but only used to make a finding on the paths or access possible to arrive safely on foot during climbing for example on rocky peaks or other

 

I use Google Earth. 

[+niraD]

17 hours ago, geocat_ said:

Just curious, how exactly would you use a drone to either place or log a cache?

To place a cache, you could either lower it from the drone to a hiding location on the top of something, or place it on the side of something using an arm extending from the drone. The arm would need to be long enough to extend past the drone's propellers, and the payload (i.e., the cache container) would need to be light enough that it doesn't upset the drone's balance enough to make it uncontrollable. Lowering the cache on top of something is probably easier. And you'll need a mechanism to grab/release the cache, such as the electromagnet or claw mentioned by cerberus1.

Actually, for elevated "hanger" caches, I suppose you could have the cache rest on a support above the drone's propellers, hook the cache on a branch from underneath, and then just lower the drone, leaving the cache hanging from the branch.

To retrieve a cache, you'd need to do the same thing, in reverse. Or I suppose you could devise something that could open the cache, stamp the log, and close the cache. But except for tethered caches, I think it would be easier to retrieve the cache, sign the log on the ground, and then replace the cache.

[+NYPaddleCacher]

5 hours ago, niraD said:

To place a cache, you could either lower it from the drone to a hiding location on the top of something, or place it on the side of something using an arm extending from the drone. The arm would need to be long enough to extend past the drone's propellers, and the payload (i.e., the cache container) would need to be light enough that it doesn't upset the drone's balance enough to make it uncontrollable. Lowering the cache on top of something is probably easier. And you'll need a mechanism to grab/release the cache, such as the electromagnet or claw mentioned by cerberus1.

Actually, for elevated "hanger" caches, I suppose you could have the cache rest on a support above the drone's propellers, hook the cache on a branch from underneath, and then just lower the drone, leaving the cache hanging from the branch.

To retrieve a cache, you'd need to do the same thing, in reverse. Or I suppose you could devise something that could open the cache, stamp the log, and close the cache. But except for tethered caches, I think it would be easier to retrieve the cache, sign the log on the ground, and then replace the cache.

Some could also create a multi cache which employed the "read the number off a sign" technique but place or use signs at locations that could only been seen from a drone (.e.g on top of a house/building)

[Keystone]

Please note, Community Volunteer Reviewers will not knowingly publish a cache that requires the use of a drone for the finder to retrieve and log a find on the cache.

Use of a drone for scouting an area, as described by the OP, wouldn't be regulated by the Geocache Listing Guidelines -- just by applicable laws in that area.

[+arisoft]

1 hour ago, Keystone said:

Use of a drone for scouting an area, as described by the OP, wouldn't be regulated by the Geocache Listing Guidelines -- just by applicable laws in that area.

If the law allows using drone then there is no problems to publish cache?

[+GerandKat]

54 minutes ago, arisoft said:

If the law allows using drone then there is no problems to publish cache?

As keystone said: No we wouldn't knowingly publish such a geoache .

[+NYPaddleCacher]

2 hours ago, Keystone said:

Please note, Community Volunteer Reviewers will not knowingly publish a cache that requires the use of a drone for the finder to retrieve and log a find on the cache. 

As drones become more affordable to general consumers I wonder how long this reviewer guideline will stay in place.  Reviewers are allowed to publish caches which require scuba tanks, but owning a drone might become far more commonplace (if it isn't already) than owning scuba equipment (or legally allowed to rent it).  

[+thebruce0]

22 hours ago, cerberus1 said:

There's a (really) high concrete railroad support cache in another state that was popular a few years ago.

An elevated cache on a concrete railroad support beam, presumably an active rail? Uhh... how'd that get published? yeeshk

[+niraD]

26 minutes ago, NYPaddleCacher said:

As drones become more affordable to general consumers I wonder how long this reviewer guideline will stay in place.  Reviewers are allowed to publish caches which require scuba tanks, but owning a drone might become far more commonplace (if it isn't already) than owning scuba equipment (or legally allowed to rent it).  

Exactly. All sorts of other special equipment can be required: scuba equipment, climbing equipment, UV lights, smartphones (e.g., for InterCaches), etc., etc., etc. Why not drones?

[+thebruce0]

I'd think it's because drones are more cnotentious with local governing authorities.  Whether it's legal to own one, or to what height they can fly... condoning the use of them in geocaching could be seen as opening the door for legal ramifications. Then again that could be said with manners of hiding caches...Dunno, I'd think they just want to play safe for now, see how drone ownership and use evolves over the years before explicitly allowing them

[+Touchstone]

29 minutes ago, NYPaddleCacher said:

As drones become more affordable to general consumers I wonder how long this reviewer guideline will stay in place.  Reviewers are allowed to publish caches which require scuba tanks, but owning a drone might become far more commonplace (if it isn't already) than owning scuba equipment (or legally allowed to rent it).  

Apples and oranges comparison. A recent fire incident in Northern CA had to suspend air support operations due to a recreational drone flying in the closed area. I've never heard of similar incidents involving scuba gear. 

[+Touchstone]

11 minutes ago, thebruce0 said:

An elevated cache on a concrete railroad support beam, presumably an active rail? Uhh... how'd that get published? yeeshk

Probably a reference to one of my caches. The railway bridge was dismantled years ago, so no, not active. There are a number of similar abandoned bridge abutment caches out there now. 

[+Manville Possum]

I thought GC5AA1H was a drone cache? I have it on my watch list, but my PM has expired and I can no longer view it. 

[+kunarion]

11 minutes ago, Manville Possum said:

I thought GC5AA1H was a drone cache? I have it on my watch list, but my PM has expired and I can no longer view it. 

 

 

 

[+cerberus1]

1 hour ago, thebruce0 said:

An elevated cache on a concrete railroad support beam, presumably an active rail? Uhh... how'd that get published? yeeshk

I've already done a 5T cache on an abandoned concrete rail support, and the one I was looking at isn't active either. 

I didn't say it was active, where did you get that presumption?

[+cerberus1]

1 hour ago, Touchstone said:

Probably a reference to one of my caches. The railway bridge was dismantled years ago, so no, not active. There are a number of similar abandoned bridge abutment caches out there now. 

Nope.   PUC - 13.

[+thebruce0]

Abandoned, ah, keyword Yes, that's neat

[+Touchstone]

16 minutes ago, thebruce0 said:

Abandoned, ah, keyword Yes, that's neat

NPS considers property left unattended for three days to be abandoned. The railway company has had over 50 years to remove the three abutments in the area. I'm not sure I can think of a better phrase for it. 

[+thebruce0]

Yeah I was visualizing an active concrete support under a raised railway rather than an abutment supporting no railway (or an abandoned railway). We've got a few abandoned abutment caches in the region.  They're fun

[Keystone]

I set a fitness goal to remove some of the excess weight around my midsection.  Since I'm a reviewer, however, I don't say that I went on a diet.  I say that I abandoned my abutment.

[+NYPaddleCacher]

3 hours ago, Touchstone said:

4 hours ago, NYPaddleCacher said:

As drones become more affordable to general consumers I wonder how long this reviewer guideline will stay in place.  Reviewers are allowed to publish caches which require scuba tanks, but owning a drone might become far more commonplace (if it isn't already) than owning scuba equipment (or legally allowed to rent it).  

Apples and oranges comparison. A recent fire incident in Northern CA had to suspend air support operations due to a recreational drone flying in the closed area. I've never heard of similar incidents involving scuba gear. 

In other words, air support operations were suspended because someone broke the law.  

I am guessing that the guideline saves reviewers from having to determine if the cache location is in a closed area.  Rather than add that burden to reviewer, or have reviewer have to request confirmation from every cache owner that submits a listing for a cache that might involved the use of a drone, systematically prohibiting all of them is much easier.

I used to follow a kayak/canoe mailing list and every year, like clockwork, there would be reports of incidents involving paddlers going out in the spring when the water temperature was still very cold but the air temps were in the 60s/70s.  Those that go after caches requiring a canoe or kayak can get in a lot of trouble (which includes dying) if they don't use common sense, yet GS hasn't restricted canoe/kayak caches in anyway.  Although it's a moot point, if drone caches were allowed, one would hope that cache owners would not submit a listing for a cache in a location closed to recreational drone use.  That would be breaking the law, and we can't have geocachers which violate local laws.

[+NYPaddleCacher]

2 hours ago, cerberus1 said:

3 hours ago, Touchstone said:

Probably a reference to one of my caches. The railway bridge was dismantled years ago, so no, not active. There are a number of similar abandoned bridge abutment caches out there now. 

Nope.   PUC - 13.

That was my guess.  It not only required some means to get to the top of stone pylon that was previously used for a railroad bridge, but it required a boat to get to the base of the pylon.  From what I've seen the container is tethered to the top of the stone pylon so while a drone could be used to "see" the container, the only way to sign the log would be to get on top of the pylon.  

[+hzoi]

4 hours ago, Touchstone said:

I've never heard of similar incidents involving scuba gear.

You have now.

Back on topic: I could envision some scenarios where a drone would be helpful, but I don't think they would come up often enough to make it worth the hassle of humping a drone around.

[+cerberus1]

1 hour ago, NYPaddleCacher said:

That was my guess.  It not only required some means to get to the top of stone pylon that was previously used for a railroad bridge, but it required a boat to get to the base of the pylon.  From what I've seen the container is tethered to the top of the stone pylon so while a drone could be used to "see" the container, the only way to sign the log would be to get on top of the pylon.  

According to the description, " The container is attached to some small (ferrous) steel weights, but the container/weight assembly is NOT anchored to the pylon -- this allows easier retrieval of cache". 

 - Why I thought a drone with a electromagnet or claw would work fine.   

[+Fugads]

On 12/3/2017 at 6:53 AM, geocat_ said:

Just curious, how exactly would you use a drone to either place or log a cache?

I'm sure there are loads of creative ways a drone can be used for geocaching. Here is an example of a cache I created using a drone (which has since been adopted out). https://coord.info/GC5YP2N

OK, so maybe the drone only adds an element of fun to that one, but still...

As for logging a cache with a drone... seems like that would be technologically prohibitive. But then, there are some very enterprising geocachers out there.

 

[+niraD]

47 minutes ago, Fugads said:

As for logging a cache with a drone... seems like that would be technologically prohibitive. But then, there are some very enterprising geocachers out there.

I know people whose tree-climbing days are behind them, but who are pretty impressive drone pilots.

[+thebruce0]

I think the thing is if the drone is a prohibited area, there's no way to retrieve it legally, meaning reviewers would have to know that highly localized data. If a canoe cache is in an area that during parts of the year it is off limits (and the cache listing indicates when to attempt and not to), then it's a different case.

[+niraD]

9 minutes ago, thebruce0 said:

I think the thing is if the drone is a prohibited area, there's no way to retrieve it legally, meaning reviewers would have to know that highly localized data. If a canoe cache is in an area that during parts of the year it is off limits (and the cache listing indicates when to attempt and not to), then it's a different case.

How is that different from other localized data, like which parks require transparent containers, or which parks require caches to be .25 mile apart (rather than the standard .1 mile apart), or which parks require permits, or which parks require caches to be within a certain distance of an official trail, or whatever?

[+thebruce0]

15 minutes ago, niraD said:

How is that different from other localized data, like which parks require transparent containers, or which parks require caches to be .25 mile apart (rather than the standard .1 mile apart), or which parks require permits, or which parks require caches to be within a certain distance of an official trail, or whatever?

I don't know. I'd guess that it's easier (or more preferable?) for reviewers to communicate with park/property owners and authorities directly than to have to deal with government contacts around the world? *shrug*

[+fuzziebear3]

13 minutes ago, niraD said:

17 minutes ago, thebruce0 said:

I think the thing is if the drone is a prohibited area, there's no way to retrieve it legally, meaning reviewers would have to know that highly localized data. If a canoe cache is in an area that during parts of the year it is off limits (and the cache listing indicates when to attempt and not to), then it's a different case.

How is that different from other localized data, like which parks require transparent containers, or which parks require caches to be .25 mile apart (rather than the standard .1 mile apart), or which parks require permits, or which parks require caches to be within a certain distance of an official trail, or whatever?

It is at least different in that reviewers are not necessarily reviewing for your transparent container, proper label, and .25 distance, distance from trail, etc.   Those are covered by the fact that you got permission from the park for the location and placement.   The reviewer is checking the geocaching guidelnes -- the .1 guideline and the permission guideline.  They know that a permit is required, but in most cases do not have the extensive list of what would allow such permit to be granted.

The drone case is just different.  If you fly a drone in and it crashes, but you don't have permission to enter the area, then you can't retrieve the drone, or there will be problems.  And if you don't have permission to enter the area, then you probably don't have permission to fly a drone there either.  If you have permission to enter the area, that does not automatically imply that you are allowed to fly a drone there either. 

[+wmpastor]

Drones are still in the experimental /novelty phase, as all technology once was (including smartphones, gpsrs, personal computers, etc.).  Expect the rule to change by 2025 unless it's determined that this would fundamentally change the game.

[+Touchstone]

7 hours ago, hzoi said:

You have now.

Back on topic: I could envision some scenarios where a drone would be helpful, but I don't think they would come up often enough to make it worth the hassle of humping a drone around.

Actually not the same at all.  Trespassing on a military installation is a whole new level of stupid, beyond what I was envisioning (i.e. mere rule breaking).

[+Twentse Mug]

Perhaps something for labcaches?

 

[+bflentje]

On 12/4/2017 at 9:34 AM, kunarion said:

 

 

 

LOL. Chainsaw.

[+kunarion]

6 minutes ago, bflentje said:

LOL. Chainsaw.

 

I know, right?!  Who would have imagine that this plan could go wrong?

"That's A Nice Drone, Charlie Brown!"

[+Mn-treker]

I seem to remember reading in the guidelines. Use of a drone to place or retrieve a cache was prohibited. But now I can't find it in the guidelines.

Could a Groundspeak lacky please comment on this.

[+Mausebiber]

1 hour ago, Mn-treker said:

I seem to remember reading in the guidelines. Use of a drone to place or retrieve a cache was prohibited

From above:

 

[+cerberus1]

4 hours ago, Mn-treker said:

I seem to remember reading in the guidelines. Use of a drone to place or retrieve a cache was prohibited. But now I can't find it in the guidelines.

 IIRC, in '15 Geocaching HQ asked all Reviewers to not publish caches involving the use of drones.

I'm not aware of any guidelines saying that I can't use one to access a cache if able.

[+terratin]

On 04/12/2017 at 3:34 PM, kunarion said:

 

 

 

LOL. So this would certainly be against the leave no trace rule. Imagine a micro in the top of a tree, and a few dozen drones dangling around there.

Quite honestly, there's nothing more annoying than going to somewhere nice on a long hike, and there are drones buzzing about. No thanks. And now imagine such drone cache was fairly close to your home.

[+Manville Possum]

5 hours ago, cerberus1 said:

 I'm not aware of any guidelines saying that I can't use one to access a cache if able.

Guidelines are for cache owners and reviewers. Anything goes as a player.

[+Touchstone]

3 hours ago, Manville Possum said:

Guidelines are for cache owners and reviewers. Anything goes as a player.

Well, sort of.  If you fly a drone in an area that prohibits flying drones, there may be some consequences.

[+Manville Possum]

25 minutes ago, Touchstone said:

Well, sort of.  If you fly a drone in an area that prohibits flying drones, there may be some consequences.

 

Are drone pilots starting to get the same bad reputation as geocachers? No wonder combining the two hobbies is frowned upon.

[+thebruce0]

16 hours ago, Touchstone said:

Well, sort of.  If you fly a drone in an area that prohibits flying drones, there may be some consequences.

Well, in context of local laws, then not everything goes for anyone I thought manville was referring to GS guidelines for finders, that effectively anything goes. GS can't control how a player finds a cache. At best it's honour system abiding by best/safe recommended practices.  ie, GS can't stop players from finding caches by drone despite decrying the practice. But the gov't certainly can

[+Manville Possum]

1 hour ago, thebruce0 said:

Well, in context of local laws, then not everything goes for anyone I thought manville was referring to GS guidelines for finders, that effectively anything goes. GS can't control how a player finds a cache. At best it's honour system abiding by best/safe recommended practices.  ie, GS can't stop players from finding caches by drone despite decrying the practice. But the gov't certainly can

 

I've had experience with the "Scorched Earth" geocache hunters that will tear GZ apart looking for a cache. So far the drone enthusiasts I have met are responsible law abiding people. I can't say that about geocachers with bomb scares being normal for their hobby. They cost tax payers tons of money. Drone pilots would be arrested and fined. 

[+terratin]

On 11/12/2017 at 3:48 PM, Manville Possum said:

 

I've had experience with the "Scorched Earth" geocache hunters that will tear GZ apart looking for a cache. So far the drone enthusiasts I have met are responsible law abiding people. I can't say that about geocachers with bomb scares being normal for their hobby. They cost tax payers tons of money. Drone pilots would be arrested and fined. 

I've not met those yet, but certainly don't want to sit in one of the planes that get filmed and nearly collides with a drone. I also can't say I find drone pilots responsible when they fly their things in a beautiful place and disturb the silence. I don't hike up that mountain with loud music either.