Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
Followers 11
novw.nl

premium MUST by subscription?

Recommended Posts

Huh? Something is very, very wrong here. Naamloos.png I am going to buy another year of premium, and I am _forced_ to buy a auto-renewal subscription. I want one year, and decide after a year what to do next. No auto renewal nonsense.

Share this post


Link to post

Hmmm. I just checked, it says the same thing on the US renewal page. I know there was always an option in the past. I hope this is just a better mistake today.

Share this post


Link to post

Yes, something has changed recently.

 

When I checked the "upgrade" page last week, I still had the option of non-auto-renewal.

 

That option is gone now. :mad:

 

B.

Share this post


Link to post

I don;t like it. Seriously I don't like it. It looks like a scam to me, hoping people will pay and forget :(

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post

I don;t like it. Seriously I don't like it. It looks like a scam to me, hoping people will pay and forget :(

 

Sadly a very common business tactic. :(

Share this post


Link to post

The Help Center article on premium membership still says that a non-renewing annual membership is available. There were no Release Notes or other announcements of any change. So, I am moving this thread to the Geocaching.com Web Site forum so that an HQ representative can confirm whether this is a bug or a change.

Share this post


Link to post

Easily taken care of. Make your payment, then cancel the auto renewal. you don't have to wait till the end of your subscription.

 

I know, but it should not be that way. In the Netherlands we have just had some new laws implemented auto-reoccurring payments are forbidden because businesses are counting om people forgetting to cancel. Apart from the fact its "not nice" for Groundspeak to implement this, I expect them to obey laws of countries the are selling to... Thats why I pay tax on my subscription, right.....................................

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post

I agree that doing this is wrong but just had a thought:

 

What if you buy yourself a gift membership, I assume that isn't auto renewing?

Share this post


Link to post

What if you buy yourself a gift membership, I assume that isn't auto renewing?

 

jup. Even better, when gifting yourself a membership from another account, you will not even pay tax :)

Share this post


Link to post

I agree that it's not very nice. That and the fact that they dropped the classic app for a broken app with less features and coercing people to buy a membership to see all the caches just goes to show that Groundspeak is all about the money, not the game.

Share this post


Link to post

The Help Center article on premium membership still says that a non-renewing annual membership is available. There were no Release Notes or other announcements of any change. So, I am moving this thread to the Geocaching.com Web Site forum so that an HQ representative can confirm whether this is a bug or a change.

 

I get the feeling that this was a very quiet change. I hope not.

 

3.2. Buying Premium Membership for Yourself

http://support.Groundspeak.com/index.php?pg=kb.page&id=177

 

5. Fill out the form:

 

1. Select payment type (credit card or PayPal Express).

Note: we do not have PayPal Express set up with recurring billing, so you will only be able to choose a 1-Year membership that does not auto-renew.

 

2. Select membership type. Your options are:

1-Year Premium Membership (auto-renewing, default)

1-Year Premium Membership (does not renew)

3-Month Premium Membership (auto-renewing)

 

3. Enter the billing address.

 

4. Enter the credit card info OR click to go to PayPal.

 

I already find it silly to enter my "billing address", as nothing is being sent to me.

 

B.

Share this post


Link to post

I already find it silly to enter my "billing address", as nothing is being sent to me.

It would be odd for the billing address to be required when paying with PayPal, but it's pretty standard to require billing address when paying via credit cards online. The general premise is that this reduces fraudulent charges. I don't think it works as effectively for addresses outside the US, but that might be outdated info.

 

If someone finds a credit card, but they don't know the account holder's billing address, then they won't be able to use that credit card for online purchases. They'll just go into a physical store and use the card there. :mad:

Share this post


Link to post

I wasn't aware this change was happening this week. Otherwise I would have suggested Release Notes for it. My apologies for that.

 

Beginning this week, memberships are offered as an annual auto-renewing Premium Membership and a quarterly auto-renewing Premium Membership. (This is made clear on the Renewal page.) Both membership options can be canceled anytime after the initial purchase.

 

There are two options for canceling your auto-renewing Premium Membership purchased on Geocaching.com.

 

Option 1:

 


     
  1. Visit your Membership Page "Settings"
  2. Select "Cancel Recurring Membership"

Option 2:

 


     
  1. Visit your Profile Page
  2. Click on the arrow/gear at the top right corner
  3. Select "Settings"
  4. Select the Membership tab
  5. Select "Edit Membership" *
  6. Select "Cancel Membership"

*If you have an auto-renewing subscription purchased on the Geocaching mobile app, you'll need to turn off auto-renewal through Settings for an Apple device or on the Google Play store for an Android device.

 

If you purchased your membership before these changes went into effect, then the membership will simply end on your Expiration/Renewal Date. It will not auto-renew. But your next purchased subscription would be on the auto-renewal.

Share this post


Link to post

Look into one time use only credit card numbers available from some banks; it's what I use for any service that wants to auto renew such as magazine subscriptions.

 

Edit to remove unnecessary statement.

Edited by GeoTrekker26

Share this post


Link to post

Just buy a premium membership gift card and then pay for your own premium membership with the gift card you just bought :)

Share this post


Link to post

Just buy a premium membership gift card and then pay for your own premium membership with the gift card you just bought :)

 

jup. Plenty of "tricks" available. I am just mad that Groundspeak is hoping people will forget to cancel the premium membership and just will "let it roll". Thats how gyms make their money. Paying members that don;t show up. I mean, does Groundspeak really desperately need money that much? If so a price raise would me more fair than a rip-your-customers scheme.

Share this post


Link to post

Just buy a premium membership gift card and then pay for your own premium membership with the gift card you just bought :)

 

jup. Plenty of "tricks" available. I am just mad that Groundspeak is hoping people will forget to cancel the premium membership and just will "let it roll". Thats how gyms make their money. Paying members that don;t show up. I mean, does Groundspeak really desperately need money that much? If so a price raise would me more fair than a rip-your-customers scheme.

 

If they need money so bad, which I doubt, they should lower the cost of a membership. They would get more paying members.

Share this post


Link to post

Just buy a premium membership gift card and then pay for your own premium membership with the gift card you just bought :)

 

jup. Plenty of "tricks" available. I am just mad that Groundspeak is hoping people will forget to cancel the premium membership and just will "let it roll". Thats how gyms make their money. Paying members that don;t show up. I mean, does Groundspeak really desperately need money that much? If so a price raise would me more fair than a rip-your-customers scheme.

 

Geez, sign up, next day cancel. I fail to see the problem. At least they make it nice and easy.

Share this post


Link to post

Geez, sign up, next day cancel. I fail to see the problem. At least they make it nice and easy.

 

The problem is they shouldn't do that in the first place. This is what happens if a company has a monopoly :ph34r:

 

I renewed last week, no auto renewal then.

Share this post


Link to post

In the Netherlands we have just had some new laws implemented auto-reoccurring payments are forbidden because businesses are counting om people forgetting to cancel.

Groundspeak is a US company, so they probably don't fall under that law.

 

Regardless, auto-renewal is increasingly being considered "shady". Apparently there are laws in the works in Australia regarding such contracts, and there have been many investigative reports by journalists about the shady practices of gyms which could lead to legislation in other jurisdictions. It's unfortunate that Groundspeak has decided they need to resort to using shady or illegal business practices to survive (see the previous VAT controversy). Continually shooting yourself in the foot and alienating your customers seems like an inherently-flawed business plan, but what are you going to do...

Share this post


Link to post

I mean, does Groundspeak really desperately need money that much? If so a price raise would me more fair than a rip-your-customers scheme.

If those are the only 2 options, then I'd rather they go with auto-renewal and easy cancellation of auto-renewal, rather than paying more.

:P

Share this post


Link to post

I mean, does Groundspeak really desperately need money that much? If so a price raise would me more fair than a rip-your-customers scheme.

If those are the only 2 options, then I'd rather they go with auto-renewal and easy cancellation of auto-renewal, rather than paying more.

:P

I'd be perfectly happy paying more for a membership if it meant Groundspeak would have the resources necessary to adequately support and develop their software and wouldn't have to resort to things like crippling their app for basic members to force people to pay for a premium membership. Keeping the membership price the same indefinitely is unsustainable and unrealistic. At some point it will have to increase, and based on what I've seen Groundspeak do in recent months to try to get people to pay for a premium membership, that time has come.

Share this post


Link to post

I can only assume that what happened here was that they didn't feel like they had quite pissed off enough people with their ridiculously poorly thought out rollout of the new app, so they got together and said "Hmm... what else can we do that will really annoy our long-time users?".

 

If that's the case, then I must congratulate them on a job well done.

Share this post


Link to post

I mean, does Groundspeak really desperately need money that much? If so a price raise would me more fair than a rip-your-customers scheme.

If those are the only 2 options, then I'd rather they go with auto-renewal and easy cancellation of auto-renewal, rather than paying more.

:P

I'd be perfectly happy paying more for a membership if it meant Groundspeak would have the resources necessary to adequately support and develop their software and wouldn't have to resort to things like crippling their app for basic members to force people to pay for a premium membership. Keeping the membership price the same indefinitely is unsustainable and unrealistic. At some point it will have to increase, and based on what I've seen Groundspeak do in recent months to try to get people to pay for a premium membership, that time has come.

Well, my comment was between auto-renewal and a price hike. Not anything else vs a price hike.

Share this post


Link to post

I mean, does Groundspeak really desperately need money that much? If so a price raise would me more fair than a rip-your-customers scheme.

If those are the only 2 options, then I'd rather they go with auto-renewal and easy cancellation of auto-renewal, rather than paying more.

:P

 

+1

 

Jeez talk about a bunch of pissy Wheaties. I went and looked, simple, clean and to the point ... push this button and your auto pay is cancelled. Guess you guys never had to deal with a Comcast representative to cancel your subscription. What is even better is if you paid with PalPay GS has the cancel button, no more hunting around the PayPal site to find where you cancel your membership. I don't see anything sneaky - it is right up front, nor do I see how they are ripping anyone off since you can cancel immediately without any penalty. I guess the only problem is if you sign up for autopay and then drop out you get dinged a year later because you forgot, oh, well, your problem.

Share this post


Link to post

I went and looked, simple, clean and to the point ...

Is it? On the payment page shown in the OP, there's no apparent mention that you can cancel the auto-renewal afterward with no penalty. We here in the forums now know about this, but someone just signing up may not know this is even an option.

 

I guess the only problem is if you sign up for autopay and then drop out you get dinged a year later because you forgot, oh, well, your problem.

I just don't see how taking the non-renewing option off the payment page can be seen as anything but a money-grab. It takes advantage of forgetful customers in order to make a buck, which falls under the "unethical" column for me.

Share this post


Link to post

I seem to recall there were several forum posts, within the past year, where cachers reported having issues with trying to renew their annual membership. The workaround was to cancel their auto-renewal and then sign up for PM, or something along those lines. Maybe whatever technical problems contributed to those issues influenced the decision to put everyone on auto-renewal. I have no idea, but hopefully the change is not as nefarious as some have implied.

Share this post


Link to post

 

Jeez talk about a bunch of pissy Wheaties. I went and looked, simple, clean and to the point ... push this button and your auto pay is cancelled. Guess you guys never had to deal with a Comcast representative to cancel your subscription. What is even better is if you paid with PalPay GS has the cancel button, no more hunting around the PayPal site to find where you cancel your membership. I don't see anything sneaky - it is right up front, nor do I see how they are ripping anyone off since you can cancel immediately without any penalty. I guess the only problem is if you sign up for autopay and then drop out you get dinged a year later because you forgot, oh, well, your problem.

 

But why bother actively removing the option to just NOT sign up for auto-renewal in the first place? Of course it's "not that hard" to cancel your auto-renewal, but if that's your argument then you seem to be completely missing the point.

Edited by ZeppelinDT

Share this post


Link to post

It's really interesting that most of the people complaining in this thread, have been members, and assumably Premium members, for several years. Face it, you're not going to stop being Premium members. You wouldn't be able to handle not having access to the Off Topic forum :anitongue:

 

You guys would complain about anything. If they took away auto-renew, and forced you to manually renew every year, you'd complain about that. :rolleyes:

Share this post


Link to post
Face it, you're not going to stop being Premium members. You wouldn't be able to handle not having access to the Off Topic forum

:D PQs.

I don't think most could cache today without loading thousands they'll never do into that gps. :laughing:

Share this post


Link to post

I wasn't aware this change was happening this week. Otherwise I would have suggested Release Notes for it. My apologies for that.

 

Beginning this week, memberships are offered as an annual auto-renewing Premium Membership and a quarterly auto-renewing Premium Membership. (This is made clear on the Renewal page.) Both membership options can be canceled anytime after the initial purchase.

 

There are two options for canceling your auto-renewing Premium Membership purchased on Geocaching.com.

 

Option 1:

Option 3. Use a credit card that offers 'one time' numbers for online purchases. No renewal is possible. Problem solved if your card offers that service.

Share this post


Link to post

Look into one time use only credit card numbers available from some banks; it's what I use for any service that wants to auto renew such as magazine subscriptions.

 

Edit to remove unnecessary statement.

 

I contacted Groundspeak about using a Mastercard gift card and was told:

 

Thank you for reaching out to Geocaching HQ. Unfortunately gift cards will not work in our payment system as all of our membership types are recurring. We accept credit cards and Paypal as they are able to be renewed again.

 

That was back on the 21st of April. I guess I should have clued in that things were going to change without prior notice.

 

My love of bookmark lists and pq's is fading fast in the face of this kind of customer treatment.

 

phhhhtttt

 

B.

Share this post


Link to post

It's really interesting that most of the people complaining in this thread, have been members, and assumably Premium members, for several years. Face it, you're not going to stop being Premium members. You wouldn't be able to handle not having access to the Off Topic forum :anitongue:

 

True, but it makes me a lot less inclined to spend money on them for anything else. I've bought plenty of stuff from the Geocaching store before, but lots of that stuff is stuff that I can easily get from third party vendors.

Share this post


Link to post
Face it, you're not going to stop being Premium members. You wouldn't be able to handle not having access to the Off Topic forum

:D PQs.

I don't think most could cache today without loading thousands they'll never do into that gps. :laughing:

 

I know I couldn't cache without having a bookmark of solved puzzles from around the world so that if, in one snowy day in hell, I'm in that area of the world, I can find the cache...if it's still available.

 

Seriously, I have opted for recurring payments from day one and I plan on that method until I get out of this game (if that ever happens). So, this doesn't affect my membership decision one iota. But, the shadiness of this kind of switch is pretty disheartening. At least add in a blurb about how to cancel the membership after purchase if one doesn't want the recurring payment to take place.

Even the seediest of adult sites has something along the lines of "credit card will be billed at $29.99 per month on a recurring basis unless cancelled" at the sign up stage. We haven't sunk to the level of trying to out-sham adult sites, have we?

Share this post


Link to post

Look into one time use only credit card numbers available from some banks; it's what I use for any service that wants to auto renew such as magazine subscriptions.

 

Edit to remove unnecessary statement.

 

I contacted Groundspeak about using a Mastercard gift card and was told:

 

Thank you for reaching out to Geocaching HQ. Unfortunately gift cards will not work in our payment system as all of our membership types are recurring. We accept credit cards and Paypal as they are able to be renewed again.

 

The 'one time' numbers associated with a real credit card aren't the same as 'gift cards'. To the receiver, they look like an ordinary credit card payment. Any attempt at a 2nd use by a vendor is impossible, though. Works a treat when dealing with Sirius/XM, too (another story altogether).

Share this post


Link to post

Yeah I think the lackey that responded was confusing MasterCard gift card with Geocaching gift card. The payment system will certainly accept a MasterCard gift card because it won't know the difference between it and a regular MasterCard credit card. The payment system has no way of knowing that the card won't work again in a year when it tries to renew.

Share this post


Link to post

It's really interesting that most of the people complaining in this thread, have been members, and assumably Premium members, for several years. Face it, you're not going to stop being Premium members. You wouldn't be able to handle not having access to the Off Topic forum :anitongue:

 

You guys would complain about anything. If they took away auto-renew, and forced you to manually renew every year, you'd complain about that. :rolleyes:

Thank you for belittling our concerns. At least you did it with your player hat on.

 

You're probably right that I will continue to renew my membership because I've become somewhat dependent on it, but that doesn't mean things haven't changed. Based on the pattern of behaviour I've been seeing - including the change being discussed - I'm far less likely to recommend Groundspeak as an entity to do business with, be that a company or an individual cacher.

 

The next couple of years will be very interesting as Groundspeak continues to try to come up with alternate sources of revenue. Hopefully they realize the error of their ways and come up with a sustainable business model before things get so bad that they have to shut down.

Share this post


Link to post

Color me confused. Your going to renew any way, so why is it being automatic such a big deal? Once when I wanted to cancel the auto-renewal I found the help desk lackey easy to deal with and gave me the info needed without the Comcast shamming spiel or the gym membership road blocks. There are a number of viable workarounds if you really want to put the red circle on the calendar to remember to manually renew. Lil Devil got it right, if your offered a free bag of money you would complain that they are all 20's, there should be some 100's in the bag.

Share this post


Link to post

How could they possibly not accept a Geocaching Gift Card? They literally sell them for the explicit purpose of paying for a Premium Membership.

 

http://shop.geocaching.com/default/gifts/gift-certificates/12-month-premium-membership-gift-card.html

This ^

 

Maybe the Lackey that responded to PP's inquiry was just misinformed. It looks like there is still an option to enter a gift card. In the OP's image, the 3rd radio button is "Redeem Gift Membership". Clicking on that reveals an input box to enter the gift card number. I would certainly hope that GS isn't selling gift cards that cannot be redeemed.

Share this post


Link to post

Color me confused. Your going to renew any way, so why is it being automatic such a big deal? Once when I wanted to cancel the auto-renewal I found the help desk lackey easy to deal with and gave me the info needed without the Comcast shamming spiel or the gym membership road blocks. There are a number of viable workarounds if you really want to put the red circle on the calendar to remember to manually renew. Lil Devil got it right, if your offered a free bag of money you would complain that they are all 20's, there should be some 100's in the bag.

 

What difference does it make WHY I don't want an auto renewal option? I want to buy this product one year at a time as I have done for years. The easiest way to do that is to have the option that I have had for years, not a workaround where I have to cancel something after I bought it.

There are a number of reasons why I might not need to be a premium member someday. Some of those reasons are out of my control and would require other people (my family) to have to deal with this membership.

Edited by Michaelcycle

Share this post


Link to post

In the Netherlands we have just had some new laws implemented auto-reoccurring payments are forbidden because businesses are counting om people forgetting to cancel.

Groundspeak is a US company, so they probably don't fall under that law.

 

Regardless, auto-renewal is increasingly being considered "shady". Apparently there are laws in the works in Australia regarding such contracts, and there have been many investigative reports by journalists about the shady practices of gyms which could lead to legislation in other jurisdictions. It's unfortunate that Groundspeak has decided they need to resort to using shady or illegal business practices to survive (see the previous VAT controversy). Continually shooting yourself in the foot and alienating your customers seems like an inherently-flawed business plan, but what are you going to do...

 

+ 1 - and that's coming from a user who has VOLUNTARILY been auto-renewing for over 10 years. :mad:

 

Mrs. Car54

Share this post


Link to post

I have been a member for 12 years. I have my reasons for not autorenewing. I don't need to explain my reasons to anyone. The discussion about the efficacy of the current tact has been useful. Telling people they should not be concerned is not useful.

 

Yes, I know how to get around the autorenewal. That is NOT the point.

Share this post


Link to post

Color me confused. Your going to renew any way, so why is it being automatic such a big deal? Once when I wanted to cancel the auto-renewal I found the help desk lackey easy to deal with and gave me the info needed without the Comcast shamming spiel or the gym membership road blocks. There are a number of viable workarounds if you really want to put the red circle on the calendar to remember to manually renew. Lil Devil got it right, if your offered a free bag of money you would complain that they are all 20's, there should be some 100's in the bag.

 

That is an insulting reply. The issue is simple, it is my money and I will decide who gets some of it and when. This is true for all my bills, including my mortgage and I certainly not going to change my practice for a gaming company.

Share this post


Link to post

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...
Sign in to follow this  
Followers 11

×
×
  • Create New...