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A height problem.


kc7vpj
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We have a problem a cacher came to town and put a cach on the back of a drive in movie theater screen 40 ft up. When we went to find it the owner of the theater did not know it was there. To get to it you had to climb up the I beams. There is a liability issue here. We moved it down to head height. But it moved up was up to about 20 ft. What can do about this? We have only 6 caches in town and would like to keep it but we also don’t anyone hurt. My e-mail is kc7vpj@hotmail.com Thanks

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We have a problem a cacher came to town and put a cach on the back of a drive in movie theater screen 40 ft up. When we went to find it the owner of the theater did not know it was there. To get to it you had to climb up the I beams. There is a liability issue here. We moved it down to head height. But it moved up was up to about 20 ft. What can do about this? We have only 6 caches in town and would like to keep it but we also don’t anyone hurt. My e-mail is kc7vpj@hotmail.com Thanks

If the owner of the theater doesn't want it on the screen at all, then it really should be archived. A "Needs Archive" log explaining the situation should suffice.

 

If the owner doesn't mind it being 6 feet up, then I would send a private email to the cache owner explaining the reason why it can only be placed 6 feet high.

Edited by CanadianRockies
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Well for one thing, it's not your cache to move/remove. For another, if there's no permission, it really doesn't matter how high up the cache is, there's still the lack of permission, which brings along liability issues, tresspassing, and such. The appropriate action is to log needs archived.

 

As a general rule, long as a cache is rate appropriately, it could be 200 feet up. It's up to you as the person looking for it to decide to go for it or not. Not Groundspeak or the cache hider. (For all you know they could have used a lift and safety harnesses, or there could be people with the proper knowledge looking for it.) Not all caches are many to be easy.

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We have a problem a cacher came to town and put a cach on the back of a drive in movie theater screen 40 ft up. When we went to find it the owner of the theater did not know it was there. To get to it you had to climb up the I beams. There is a liability issue here. We moved it down to head height. But it moved up was up to about 20 ft. What can do about this? We have only 6 caches in town and would like to keep it but we also don’t anyone hurt. My e-mail is kc7vpj@hotmail.com Thanks

If the owner of the theater doesn't want it on the screen at all, then it really should be archived. A "Needs Archive" log explaining the situation should suffice.

 

If the owner doesn't mind it being 6 feet up, then I would send a private email to the cache owner explaining the reason why it can only be placed 6 feet high.

^ Yep.

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Some caches which are placed high up are not intended to be retrieved by climbing. Mentions of "tott" (tools of the trade), "special tool required" attribute, and a high-difficulty/low-terrain rating may be good indications of this intent.

 

I would try to open a dialog with the cache owner and send them a note.

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We have a problem a cacher came to town and put a cach on the back of a drive in movie theater screen 40 ft up. When we went to find it the owner of the theater did not know it was there. To get to it you had to climb up the I beams. There is a liability issue here. We moved it down to head height. But it moved up was up to about 20 ft. What can do about this? We have only 6 caches in town and would like to keep it but we also don’t anyone hurt. My e-mail is kc7vpj@hotmail.com Thanks

 

First problem right there...vacation cache.

Second problem: permission.

 

For those two reasons alone, I would post a 'Needs Archived' log and let the CO sort it out with the Reviewer.

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NA log. That simple.

 

This story remind me of a cache in a tree and someone was moving it to ground level and the CO was CHEWING out all the finders for not putting it where it belong.

 

Wait for it... it was the owner of the tree that was taking it out of the tree and putting it at ground level. :laughing:

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A previous finder mentioned in their log that they had met the theater owner when they made the find. Maybe permission was obtained or at least the theater owner knew about the cache earlier. Maybe some folks just need a longer tott.

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Cache is in Idaho, cache owner states Nevada as his home (and where most of his many hides are located). Vacation cache, unless he has someone local to maintain it for him.

 

The cache page does suggest using a tool to retrieve the cache, which would eliminate the liability issue... sounds like you should not have been climbing the i-beams, actually.

 

Rumbleseats, on 10/24/2014, wrote, "Met the owner of the Motor-vu, and talked to her about the cache, she in a nice person"

 

So, perhaps there are two owners or the theater has changed hands, but apparently at least this owner knew about it.

 

I would suggest, given this, that you either ignore it, or post a NA, stating that the owner that you met did not know about the cache, and let the reviewer sort it out. He may have information about permission and maintenance.

 

As has already been stated, I do not believe that you had the right to move the cache lower, though. That, and climbing the I-beams, were mistakes on your part, in my opinion.

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The attributes on the cache page include the "Swiss army Knife" which tells you Special Tools Required. The description says "Quick Png with the right tott."

I'm thinkingsearchers are on notice that they will need something to get the cache. Terrain is low, so I suppose the cacher isn't intended to climb to make the find.

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The archived reviewer notes indicate that this is the CO's hometown. His parents live north of the cache location and they have actual accounts with a history of finds. That is WAY better than most maintenance plans I read for vacation caches.

 

So, let's focus on the permission discussion, the propriety of moving the cache from its hiding spot, what logs or other actions are appropriate, etc.

 

There was nothing in the archived reviewer logs different from the cache listing in regards to permission (silent) and hiding method (easy with the correct TOTT).

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I was the one who talked to the theater owner she had no clue that it was there until we pointed out to her. This theater was built in 1960's by her father. The CO climbed the screen and broke some cross supports so he also did damage. She had her grand son use a ladder to bring it down.

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I was the one who talked to the theater owner she had no clue that it was there until we pointed out to her. This theater was built in 1960's by her father. The CO climbed the screen and broke some cross supports so he also did damage. She had her grand son use a ladder to bring it down.

I think you should pass that info on to the CO, at which point he/she can decide whether the new location is OK (if the theater owner is OK with it), or if they want to archive it since it's not the same hide. But yeah - from what you say, it can't stay in its original place. As many details and explanations that you can give to the CO, the better.

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I was the one who talked to the theater owner she had no clue that it was there until we pointed out to her. This theater was built in 1960's by her father. The CO climbed the screen and broke some cross supports so he also did damage. She had her grand son use a ladder to bring it down.

 

I don't doubt you, but it is also tough to doubt this:

 

Met the owner of the Motor-vu, and talked to her about the cache, she in a nice person. Thanks for the fun cache and the smiley

 

Why would they say that if it wasn't true?

 

Did you get the owner's name? Was it Karen Dobbs Cornwell, by any chance? Doesn't sound as though there is more than one female owner, but there may have been a manager that you or the other person thought was the owner.

 

Some interesting history about that theater: http://www.parmamotorvu.com/about.htm

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I was trying to not name her if you look back in the logs you will find that I was one of the first ones that found it I then talked to her that day. Rumble seats was after I talked to Karen and was moved by her grand son the next day.

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I was trying to not name her if you look back in the logs you will find that I was one of the first ones that found it I then talked to her that day. Rumble seats was after I talked to Karen and was moved by her grand son the next day.

 

Oh, yes! Sorry, I didn't see that you actually logged a find on 07/06/2014 before writing your note on 03/22/2015. Still, Rumbleseats DID talk with the owner, and she apparently didn't have a problem with the cache at that time (10/12/2014).

 

I'm curious about what made you decide to post your note and start this thread nine months after you found the cache. Also curious why several cachers mentioned it being way too high, even after you moved it to "head high". In any case, you asked in your OP, "what can we do about this?". The answer is, either write the reviewer, or post an NA for the reviewer to see and deal with as he/she sees fit. (or, if the owner said, "I don't want that here", then take it with you, and post an NA)

 

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It was moved back up to about 15 to 20 ft. when I talked to Karen the first time she wanted it gone I ask if it was at a place where people did not have to climb would it be alright and she finally she yes. I was asking how can we as cachers be aware of where we placing caches on private land where nobody gets hurt this is the last we need. I'm not a lawyer but nasty things could happen I think. Thanks for all the input. I will be talking to Karen this week after doc apps. at the VA. Robert

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It was moved back up to about 15 to 20 ft. when I talked to Karen the first time she wanted it gone I ask if it was at a place where people did not have to climb would it be alright and she finally she yes. I was asking how can we as cachers be aware of where we placing caches on private land where nobody gets hurt this is the last we need. I'm not a lawyer but nasty things could happen I think. Thanks for all the input. I will be talking to Karen this week after doc apps. at the VA. Robert

I think it's great that you've started a dialogue with the property owner about the cache, but I have to echo what others have posted in this thread...the CO should be the person talking to the property owner about permissions and placement of the cache. The CO appears to be active on the site and so it may be best to contact the CO and let them know that there are potential issues to be addressed with the property owner, or at least let the CO know that you are speaking to the property on his behalf.

 

Good luck!

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It was moved back up to about 15 to 20 ft. when I talked to Karen the first time she wanted it gone I ask if it was at a place where people did not have to climb would it be alright and she finally she yes. I was asking how can we as cachers be aware of where we placing caches on private land where nobody gets hurt this is the last we need. I'm not a lawyer but nasty things could happen I think. Thanks for all the input. I will be talking to Karen this week after doc apps. at the VA. Robert

I think it's great that you've started a dialogue with the property owner about the cache, but I have to echo what others have posted in this thread...the CO should be the person talking to the property owner about permissions and placement of the cache. The CO appears to be active on the site and so it may be best to contact the CO and let them know that there are potential issues to be addressed with the property owner, or at least let the CO know that you are speaking to the property on his behalf.

 

Good luck!

 

I agree with you, to a point, but actually, it should probably be the reviewer speaking to the cache owner about explicit permission for the hide. An NA would accomplish that, most likely.

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We have a problem a cacher came to town and put a cach on the back of a drive in movie theater screen 40 ft up. When we went to find it the owner of the theater did not know it was there. To get to it you had to climb up the I beams. There is a liability issue here. We moved it down to head height. But it moved up was up to about 20 ft. What can do about this? We have only 6 caches in town and would like to keep it but we also don’t anyone hurt. My e-mail is kc7vpj@hotmail.com Thanks

If the owner of the theater doesn't want it on the screen at all, then it really should be archived. A "Needs Archive" log explaining the situation should suffice.

 

If the owner doesn't mind it being 6 feet up, then I would send a private email to the cache owner explaining the reason why it can only be placed 6 feet high.

^ Yep.

 

+2.

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I was the one who talked to the theater owner she had no clue that it was there until we pointed out to her. This theater was built in 1960's by her father. The CO climbed the screen and broke some cross supports so he also did damage. She had her grand son use a ladder to bring it down.

 

Sorry, kc7vpg, I missed this post, somehow. While I still think that an NA log would have been the route to take, regardless, I do have to ask if there is any chance that the cache owner could have obtained permission from her father? Was he running the place during the time the cache was hidden? Wouldn't be the first time I've seen such stories here. Permission obtained, but not passed on. That is another reason to leave it up to the reviewer, who has access to the pre-publication notes regarding such things as permission.

 

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We have a problem a cacher came to town and put a cach on the back of a drive in movie theater screen 40 ft up. When we went to find it the owner of the theater did not know it was there. To get to it you had to climb up the I beams. There is a liability issue here. We moved it down to head height. But it moved up was up to about 20 ft. What can do about this? We have only 6 caches in town and would like to keep it but we also don’t anyone hurt. My e-mail is kc7vpj@hotmail.com Thanks

If the owner of the theater doesn't want it on the screen at all, then it really should be archived. A "Needs Archive" log explaining the situation should suffice.

 

If the owner doesn't mind it being 6 feet up, then I would send a private email to the cache owner explaining the reason why it can only be placed 6 feet high.

^ Yep.

 

+2.

 

+3

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We have a problem a cacher came to town and put a cach on the back of a drive in movie theater screen 40 ft up. When we went to find it the owner of the theater did not know it was there. To get to it you had to climb up the I beams. There is a liability issue here. We moved it down to head height. But it moved up was up to about 20 ft. What can do about this? We have only 6 caches in town and would like to keep it but we also don’t anyone hurt. My e-mail is kc7vpj@hotmail.com Thanks

Was it really 40ft up? I don't know of any TOTT except those using ladders with pole that can reach that high. Curious how did you get the cache?

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We have a problem a cacher came to town and put a cach on the back of a drive in movie theater screen 40 ft up. When we went to find it the owner of the theater did not know it was there. To get to it you had to climb up the I beams. There is a liability issue here. We moved it down to head height. But it moved up was up to about 20 ft. What can do about this? We have only 6 caches in town and would like to keep it but we also don’t anyone hurt. My e-mail is kc7vpj@hotmail.com Thanks

Was it really 40ft up? I don't know of any TOTT except those using ladders with pole that can reach that high. Curious how did you get the cache?

 

OP: "To get to it you had to climb up the I beams."

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We have a problem a cacher came to town and put a cach on the back of a drive in movie theater screen 40 ft up. When we went to find it the owner of the theater did not know it was there. To get to it you had to climb up the I beams. There is a liability issue here. We moved it down to head height. But it moved up was up to about 20 ft. What can do about this? We have only 6 caches in town and would like to keep it but we also don't anyone hurt. My e-mail is kc7vpj@hotmail.com Thanks

Was it really 40ft up? I don't know of any TOTT except those using ladders with pole that can reach that high. Curious how did you get the cache?

 

Good point! I hadn't really given the "40 feet" part that much significance. Even climbing the I-beams, that's way up there!

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We have a problem a cacher came to town and put a cach on the back of a drive in movie theater screen 40 ft up. When we went to find it the owner of the theater did not know it was there. To get to it you had to climb up the I beams. There is a liability issue here. We moved it down to head height. But it moved up was up to about 20 ft. What can do about this? We have only 6 caches in town and would like to keep it but we also don’t anyone hurt. My e-mail is kc7vpj@hotmail.com Thanks

Was it really 40ft up? I don't know of any TOTT except those using ladders with pole that can reach that high. Curious how did you get the cache?

 

OP: "To get to it you had to climb up the I beams."

Unless the CO changed the cache page, they say to use a TOTT no mention to climb it. So the OP would taken upon themselves to take that risk. And I am confused the OP said the Drive-in owner didn't know the cache was there but someone else mentioned they believe they have permission.

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We have a problem a cacher came to town and put a cach on the back of a drive in movie theater screen 40 ft up. When we went to find it the owner of the theater did not know it was there. To get to it you had to climb up the I beams. There is a liability issue here. We moved it down to head height. But it moved up was up to about 20 ft. What can do about this? We have only 6 caches in town and would like to keep it but we also don’t anyone hurt. My e-mail is kc7vpj@hotmail.com Thanks

Was it really 40ft up? I don't know of any TOTT except those using ladders with pole that can reach that high. Curious how did you get the cache?

 

OP: "To get to it you had to climb up the I beams."

Unless the CO changed the cache page, they say to use a TOTT no mention to climb it. So the OP would taken upon themselves to take that risk. And I am confused the OP said the Drive-in owner didn't know the cache was there but someone else mentioned they believe they have permission.

 

How the cache owner says to find it, and how people actually end up finding it is not the same thing. My interpretation is that the OP climbed.

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Good point! I hadn't really given the "40 feet" part that much significance. Even climbing the I-beams, that's way up there!
FWIW, there are 30ft extension poles available, although they're rather expensive. While standing on the ground, I could use one of those to reach a cache 36-37ft high. That's pretty close to 40 feet.

 

But it doesn't surprise me that people would climb the structure rather than use a $100 tool that not many people own.

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To get to it you had to climb up the I beams. There is a liability issue here.

Maybe the OP should read the cache page. It did not say to climb, if they chose to climb that is not the COs problem. The OP is the one who said you have to climb not the CO. So the issues are now, should the OP move the cache and does the CO really have permission?

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The CO climbed the screen and broke some cross supports so he also did damage.

Not trying to bash the OP or take sides just trying to understand. Do you know for a fact the CO climbed the screen and broke the supports? Since the CO mentioned using a TOTT I would think that is how the CO placed it.

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Or maybe just another finder broke the beam? Either way I'd be PO'd my property got busted.

 

To me the height is not an issue, if I do not think it was safe... Ignore. The issue needs to be the permission. You are trespassing without it. It is the key to this whole issue and the OP has been given a suggestion to NA it. Let the reviewer deal with it. Even if one partner said it was OK this second is saying no so to me that is a NO!

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The CO climbed the screen and broke some cross supports so he also did damage.

Not trying to bash the OP or take sides just trying to understand. Do you know for a fact the CO climbed the screen and broke the supports? Since the CO mentioned using a TOTT I would think that is how the CO placed it.

 

I contend that the CO breaking beams is a fabrication. If the I-beams and welds are so weak as to be broken by the weight of an average human, than how is this screen even strong enough to stay standing?

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The CO climbed the screen and broke some cross supports so he also did damage.

Not trying to bash the OP or take sides just trying to understand. Do you know for a fact the CO climbed the screen and broke the supports? Since the CO mentioned using a TOTT I would think that is how the CO placed it.

 

I contend that the CO breaking beams is a fabrication. If the I-beams and welds are so weak as to be broken by the weight of an average human, than how is this screen even strong enough to stay standing?

 

BTW, I am not suggesting it was alright to trespass and climb. Just suggesting the damage is a lie.

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There is 2x4 cross beams like studs in your house that is bolted to the steel beams that is what he broke.

Again do you have proof he broke them?

 

edit to clarify.

Are you talking about the CO or the FTF breaking the studs? Did you see them get broken?

Edited by jellis
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I was there when the FTF was found and the owner of the drive-in pointed that they where NOT broken before. Please read the past posts. Please tell me what TOTT do you use when the cache was 40 feet up the back of the screen?

Edited by kc7vpj
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I was there when the FTF was found and the owner of the drive-in pointed that they where NOT broken before. Please read the past posts. Please tell me what TOTT do you use when the cache was 40 feet up the back of the screen?

A strong wind or kids climbing. You can't say the CO did it if you don't know for a fact.

And yes a TOTT could reach.

Tall ladder, plus cacher plus 30ft extension pole.

Extension Pole, 30ft, 3-Section, Aluminum

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It's not all about the numbers but

 

The CO has nearly 11 thousand finds. You have less than a thousand. Perhaps cache more, cache police less, and just leave other peoples stuff alone once you have found it and enjoyed it. Walk away and concentrate on enjoying the hobby. Why you're involved at all is confusing.

 

The natural order of things is find the cache and log it. If confronted by a disgruntled land owner contact CO and explain what happened and leave it in the CO's hands. Thats why they are the CO. Broken beams and risk do not concern you. That's land owner and CO territory.

 

As for it being dangerous .... The terrain rating tells you all you need to know. It's not a 4 so no climbing rewuired. But climbing 40 feet up is nothing. There are caches in Chernobyl. Now that's a risk.

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It's not all about the numbers but

 

The CO has nearly 11 thousand finds. You have less than a thousand. Perhaps cache more, cache police less, and just leave other peoples stuff alone once you have found it and enjoyed it. Walk away and concentrate on enjoying the hobby. Why you're involved at all is confusing.

 

The natural order of things is find the cache and log it. If confronted by a disgruntled land owner contact CO and explain what happened and leave it in the CO's hands. Thats why they are the CO. Broken beams and risk do not concern you. That's land owner and CO territory.

 

As for it being dangerous .... The terrain rating tells you all you need to know. It's not a 4 so no climbing rewuired. But climbing 40 feet up is nothing. There are caches in Chernobyl. Now that's a risk.

 

This is terrible advice. A disgruntled land owner is perhaps the best reason to log a Needs Archived and get a reviewer's attention.

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It's not all about the numbers but

 

The CO has nearly 11 thousand finds. You have less than a thousand. Perhaps cache more, cache police less, and just leave other peoples stuff alone once you have found it and enjoyed it. Walk away and concentrate on enjoying the hobby. Why you're involved at all is confusing.

 

The natural order of things is find the cache and log it. If confronted by a disgruntled land owner contact CO and explain what happened and leave it in the CO's hands. Thats why they are the CO. Broken beams and risk do not concern you. That's land owner and CO territory.

 

As for it being dangerous .... The terrain rating tells you all you need to know. It's not a 4 so no climbing rewuired. But climbing 40 feet up is nothing. There are caches in Chernobyl. Now that's a risk.

 

This is terrible advice. A disgruntled land owner is perhaps the best reason to log a Needs Archived and get a reviewer's attention.

 

+1

 

Maybe I'm not understanding something. People are climbing a movie screen support. It's natural that people would do this if a 30 foot pole is not supplied. The drive-in owner doesn't like it. I can't imagine any owner thinking it would be OK if people climbed onto their movie screen.

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It's not all about the numbers but

 

The CO has nearly 11 thousand finds. You have less than a thousand. Perhaps cache more, cache police less, and just leave other peoples stuff alone once you have found it and enjoyed it. Walk away and concentrate on enjoying the hobby. Why you're involved at all is confusing.

 

The natural order of things is find the cache and log it. If confronted by a disgruntled land owner contact CO and explain what happened and leave it in the CO's hands. Thats why they are the CO. Broken beams and risk do not concern you. That's land owner and CO territory.

 

As for it being dangerous .... The terrain rating tells you all you need to know. It's not a 4 so no climbing rewuired. But climbing 40 feet up is nothing. There are caches in Chernobyl. Now that's a risk.

 

This is terrible advice. A disgruntled land owner is perhaps the best reason to log a Needs Archived and get a reviewer's attention.

 

+1

 

Maybe I'm not understanding something. People are climbing a movie screen support. It's natural that people would do this if a 30 foot pole is not supplied. The drive-in owner doesn't like it. I can't imagine any owner thinking it would be OK if people climbed onto their movie screen.

 

Neither can I. From a liability standpoint, I'd expect that the owner needs to explicitly deter climbing. Permitting it, either explicitly or through lack of action leaves the owner wide open to big problems should someone get hurt.

 

The suggestion that it's the CO's business is absolutely preposterous. This is exactly the sort of nonsense that causes trouble for everyone.

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