A new phenomenon?

[4wheelin_fool]

Noticed something that happened twice in the past week on two different caches with two separate groups of people. A FTF is claimed, then another cacher finds it and claims that the log is blank. An examination reveals part of the log is missing. Not to name names or to point out specific people, but really?

 

Hope this isn't the newest trend..

[+Panther&Pine]

I've had two folks claim a blank log book, but it turned out one signed the true front of the log book and the other had the book turned upside down and backwards and signed on the back page. I've since moved to using log books with very clear fronts.

 

On your note, I just don't see the purpose of being that sneaky.

[+The A-Team]

Noticed something that happened twice in the past week on two different caches with two separate groups of people. A FTF is claimed, then another cacher finds it and claims that the log is blank. An examination reveals part of the log is missing. Not to name names or to point out specific people, but really?

 

Hope this isn't the newest trend..

I think I've heard this phenomenon mentioned in the forums before. It's never happened in my area (to my knowledge), but apparently the FTF crowd is downright nasty in some regions.

 

I guess some people will do whatever it takes to "win". One wonders whether such behaviour spills over into their life outside of caching, or vice-versa.

[+NYPaddleCacher]

Noticed something that happened twice in the past week on two different caches with two separate groups of people. A FTF is claimed, then another cacher finds it and claims that the log is blank. An examination reveals part of the log is missing. Not to name names or to point out specific people, but really?

 

Hope this isn't the newest trend..

 

Some people take the FTF game way too seriously.

 

The reminds me a bit of an incident that occurred a few years ago. A few people reported that some geocoins were missing in some caches and someone did a bit of research and found that about 25-30 caches in central and western had been logged with by the same person over the course of a three day weekend, all with a variation of, "did see any trackables in the cache" shown on the cache listing.

 

[4wheelin_fool]

I've had two folks claim a blank log book, but it turned out one signed the true front of the log book and the other had the book turned upside down and backwards and signed on the back page. I've since moved to using log books with very clear fronts.

 

On your note, I just don't see the purpose of being that sneaky.

 

Sometimes mistakes are made with home made log sheets, but there's nothing sneaky when the CO checks and declares the log sheet has been tampered with.

[+Ladybug Kids]

When nanos first came out in my area, the FTFs would oftentimes unroll the entire blank log sheet and sign the back and then not log their find until someone else posted their find. STFs would come along, see the blank beginning of the scroll and declare themselves the FTF. The cache page flame wars that ensued weren't pleasant.

[+NeverSummer]

Man, some people need to get a hobby...

 

I remember seeing the FTF game happen a few times like what LadybugKids describes back when I lived in Portland. There was some battles between people, but I chalked it up to another example of why FTF really isn't that big of a deal unless the cache owner leaves a nice FTF prize. Because, other than that prize that isn't common at all anymore, there's nothing that great about being FTF unless you're a hyper-competitive person.

 

I then learned when living in MN that there was a new cacher who took the FTF game waaaaay too seriously. After he and some cronies really got out of hand, people stopped rushing out for FTF to challenge the new guys. Those new guys stopped caching altogether not long after they realized that they were the only ones playing their version of this sub-game.

 

Now that I live in lazy Homer, AK, the FTF game is really not that much fun. Just finding caches out here is a treat, and it's nice when a new one is hidden by one of the other 2 active people in town!

Edited January 8, 2015 by NeverSummer

[+The A-Team]

Now that I live in lazy Homer, AK, the FTF game is really not that much fun. Just finding caches out here is a treat, and it's nice when a new one is hidden by one of the other 2 active people in town!

What's wrong with that? You have a 50/50 shot at being the FTF! You can rack up the FTF Points™!

[+T.D.M.22]

When nanos first came out in my area, the FTFs would oftentimes unroll the entire blank log sheet and sign the back and then not log their find until someone else posted their find. STFs would come along, see the blank beginning of the scroll and declare themselves the FTF. The cache page flame wars that ensued weren't pleasant.

 

I've done that. Although not to be a jerk. When 100 caches come out, I don't need 100 FTF's, so if someone wants to think they got it I'm fine with that.

[+NeverSummer]

Now that I live in lazy Homer, AK, the FTF game is really not that much fun. Just finding caches out here is a treat, and it's nice when a new one is hidden by one of the other 2 active people in town!

What's wrong with that? You have a 50/50 shot at being the FTF! You can rack up the FTF Points™!

I CAN HAZ ALL THE FTF POINTS™?>

 

[Mr.Yuck]

Now that I live in lazy Homer, AK, the FTF game is really not that much fun. Just finding caches out here is a treat, and it's nice when a new one is hidden by one of the other 2 active people in town!

What's wrong with that? You have a 50/50 shot at being the FTF! You can rack up the FTF Points™!

I CAN HAZ ALL THE FTF POINTS™?>

 

 

Ur doing it wrong.

 

[+lamoracke]

Never happened to me but it has happened to a couple of my friends in the last year or so. Who knows the actual story but I just log them as FTF, bookmark them and move on. Not worth worrying about what other folks log. If every single other logger wants to claim FTF on them afterwards, I do not care.

[+wmpastor]

Look no further - here's the solution: the right paper, a photo of the log, and the photo uploaded to the log. Never a dispute.

 

Across the river here in PA we have this down to a science.

 

[4wheelin_fool]

Across the river here in PA we I have this down to a science.

 

Fixed it for ya.

[+wmpastor]

Across the river here in PA we I have this down to a science.

 

Fixed it for ya.

Well, I was being modest. No, but seriously, the solution is the Groundspeak paper that COs here are using. It's got one FTF spot and so there's none of this "sign front of book, sign back of book, have flame war" nonsense!

Edited January 9, 2015 by wmpastor

[+Roman!]

When nanos first came out in my area, the FTFs would oftentimes unroll the entire blank log sheet and sign the back and then not log their find until someone else posted their find. STFs would come along, see the blank beginning of the scroll and declare themselves the FTF. The cache page flame wars that ensued weren't pleasant.

 

I've done that. Although not to be a jerk. When 100 caches come out, I don't need 100 FTF's, so if someone wants to think they got it I'm fine with that.

 

But they're not since you found them first so in essence you're being a bigger jerk.

[Mr.Yuck]

Across the river here in PA we I have this down to a science.

 

Fixed it for ya.

Well, I was being modest. No, but seriously, the solution is the Groundspeak paper that COs here are using. It's got one FTF spot and so there's none of this "sign front of book, sign back of book, have flame war" nonsense!

 

Gee ya' think? What gave it away, the fact that you had taken a picture of it?

 

You would think that particular type of logsheet would be a "solution", but if someone was really nasty, they would still rip off the logo and FTF spot, I suppose.

[+K13]

Across the river here in PA we I have this down to a science.

 

Fixed it for ya.

Well, I was being modest. No, but seriously, the solution is the Groundspeak paper that COs here are using. It's got one FTF spot and so there's none of this "sign front of book, sign back of book, have flame war" nonsense!

 

Gee ya' think? What gave it away, the fact that you had taken a picture of it?

 

You would think that particular type of logsheet would be a "solution", but if someone was really nasty, they would still rip off the logo and FTF spot, I suppose.

 

Or if they are really nasty and deviously clever, they will print their own logsheet and pre-sign it, then replace the log in the cache....no torn logsheet for the CO to find later.

[+NanCycle]

Across the river here in PA we I have this down to a science.

 

Fixed it for ya.

Well, I was being modest. No, but seriously, the solution is the Groundspeak paper that COs here are using. It's got one FTF spot and so there's none of this "sign front of book, sign back of book, have flame war" nonsense!

 

Gee ya' think? What gave it away, the fact that you had taken a picture of it?

 

You would think that particular type of logsheet would be a "solution", but if someone was really nasty, they would still rip off the logo and FTF spot, I suppose.

 

Or if they are really nasty and deviously clever, they will print their own logsheet and pre-sign it, then replace the log in the cache....no torn logsheet for the CO to find later.

 

And they will include a date/time that is earlier than yours.

 

I'm sure glad I'm not into the FTF game. I happened to get one FTF in my 1792 Finds.

[+NeverSummer]

Now that I live in lazy Homer, AK, the FTF game is really not that much fun. Just finding caches out here is a treat, and it's nice when a new one is hidden by one of the other 2 active people in town!

What's wrong with that? You have a 50/50 shot at being the FTF! You can rack up the FTF Points™!

I CAN HAZ ALL THE FTF POINTS™?>

 

 

Ur doing it wrong.

 

Bahahaha! Dang it! I knew something wasn't right in my world.

 

An interesting FTF question came up with a cache awaiting an online log for "FTF":

 

Logged by: XXXXXXXXXXX

Log Type: Found it

Date: 1/8/2015

Location: Alaska, United States

Type: Traditional Cache

 

Log:

QEF. The trail up to the tower was pretty icy. There was another name on the log but it wasn't logged on the website. I got the "yours to keep" tag. Does that mean I'm the F2F or not? TFTC!

 

I mean, we could start a thread like the "Found it=Did not Find" one for "FTF=Not FTF".

 

But then again, the "FTF" really isn't that big a deal, is it? This person might really want that FTF for, I don't know, bragging rights? A badge of honor? They weren't the first to find if someone else signed the log, so...

 

Anyway, it really doesn't matter. If people want to get their "knickers in a twist" about who was first, they can. There's an intrinsic value to the FTF, as well as some fodder for one's competitive nature, a way to build community, and more. But the bottom line is that Groundspeak doesn't give any awards for FTF. There is no tally, no official record, nothing. It's something Groundspeak talks about, something we talk about, and something we've all likely given a shot to do in some way or another. But it is when people take it so seriously that they make the game less fun for someone else that I withdraw. Some people get miffed and start fighting with others, some play devious tricks that add fuel to that fire. Whatever the case, I'm happy that I can rationalize the FTF side-game the way that I do so that this game of geocaching isn't "ruined" because of "devious" or other seemingly detrimental behavior.

[JASTA 11]

Noticed something that happened twice in the past week on two different caches with two separate groups of people. A FTF is claimed, then another cacher finds it and claims that the log is blank. An examination reveals part of the log is missing. Not to name names or to point out specific people, but really?

 

Hope this isn't the newest trend..

 

C'mon now, let them play the game they way want to.

[+NYPaddleCacher]

Across the river here in PA we I have this down to a science.

 

Fixed it for ya.

Well, I was being modest. No, but seriously, the solution is the Groundspeak paper that COs here are using. It's got one FTF spot and so there's none of this "sign front of book, sign back of book, have flame war" nonsense!

 

Gee ya' think? What gave it away, the fact that you had taken a picture of it?

 

You would think that particular type of logsheet would be a "solution", but if someone was really nasty, they would still rip off the logo and FTF spot, I suppose.

 

Or if they are really nasty and deviously clever, they will print their own logsheet and pre-sign it, then replace the log in the cache....no torn logsheet for the CO to find later.

 

I thought of the same thing but don't think I'm especially nasty or devious.

[+BCandMsKitty]

Well, to me it's simple. If I was FTF, and I signed a blank log sheet, then I know I was FTF. What someone says later is just so much fluff, and doesn't mean a thing, and I couldn't care less. I probably won't know if someone plays the trick the OP said, anyway. I rarely go back to see if there's another FTF claim!

[+Chrysalides]

Or if they are really nasty and deviously clever, they will print their own logsheet and pre-sign it, then replace the log in the cache....no torn logsheet for the CO to find later.

I thought of that, but cheating sounds like too much work for me to be interested in it

[+wmpastor]

Across the river here in PA we I have this down to a science.

 

Fixed it for ya.

Well, I was being modest. No, but seriously, the solution is the Groundspeak paper that COs here are using. It's got one FTF spot and so there's none of this "sign front of book, sign back of book, have flame war" nonsense!

 

Gee ya' think? What gave it away, the fact that you had taken a picture of it?

 

You would think that particular type of logsheet would be a "solution", but if someone was really nasty, they would still rip off the logo and FTF spot, I suppose.

 

Or if they are really nasty and deviously clever, they will print their own logsheet and pre-sign it, then replace the log in the cache....no torn logsheet for the CO to find later.

 

I thought of the same thing but don't think I'm especially nasty or devious.

FTFs are protected more fiercely than that! These suggested stunts are amateurish!

 

You take the photo and time stamp it (GPS coords too?!). And best if is the CO hand wrote the cache name first.

 

I'll be back with a photo. And please, don't hate the FTF!

 

Ok, back. Note the "security features" to assure authentic FTFs. The CO wrote the heading himself. If an imposter claims a phony FTF by forging the CO's handwriting on a substitue log, we get a handwriting expert! Problem solved - & generally prevented. (A conscientious CO would have a game cam in operation also.)

 

Edited January 10, 2015 by wmpastor

[+Chrysalides]

FTFs are protected more fiercely than that! These suggested stunts are amateurish!

Meh, yours are only semi-professional at best.

 

I propose we have an official First To Find certificate, printed on security paper, unique serial number. There must be at least 5 security features on it, including watermark, raised printing, color changing ink, security thread, hologram. The certificate must be signed by the CO and notarized.

 

Or we can, you know, just play the game for fun.

[+niraD]

Or we can, you know, just play the game for fun.

Now that's just crazy talk!

[+Chrysalides]

Or we can, you know, just play the game for fun.

Now that's just crazy talk!

I know, I'm sorry. I don't know what came over me

[+MountainWoods]

FTFs are protected more fiercely than that! These suggested stunts are amateurish!

Meh, yours are only semi-professional at best.

 

I propose we have an official First To Find certificate, printed on security paper, unique serial number. There must be at least 5 security features on it, including watermark, raised printing, color changing ink, security thread, hologram. The certificate must be signed by the CO and notarized.

 

Or we can, you know, just play the game for fun.

In triplicate, of course!

Edited January 10, 2015 by MountainWoods

[+ChileHead]

It amazes me that people care that much. If I'm FTF, I sign the log, write about my experience online and don't say anything about FTF. I could care less if the next guy or the next ten claim FTF. I could also care less if I accidentally signed the back of the logbook and somebody was already signed in on the front of the logbook that I missed. I have a bookmark list of my FTFs so I know what I think is my FTF count. If it's off by a few because of some silly games, who cares.

 

Sometimes the cache owner gets a bit annoyed if I do say FTF in my log as they aren't sure who is FTF, but that's not my problem.

[+ChileHead]

A few people reported that some geocoins were missing in some caches and someone did a bit of research and found that about 25-30 caches in central and western had been logged with by the same person over the course of a three day weekend, all with a variation of, "did see any trackables in the cache" shown on the cache listing.

 

I think I'm pretty sure I know who you are talking about. They have gotten a bit smarter since then and leave less of a trail of their geocoin thefts.

[+GilkerscleughCachers]

This reminds me of a cache about 30 miles from here. It was published in a rather competitive area. A rather new cacher went out and signed the log first and claimed FTF, then a more prolific cache comes long and claims FTF because the person who actually found it first signed their name on the first line below the FTF section so the second cacher claimed FTF by filling the FTF in.

[+GilkerscleughCachers]

A few people reported that some geocoins were missing in some caches and someone did a bit of research and found that about 25-30 caches in central and western had been logged with by the same person over the course of a three day weekend, all with a variation of, "did see any trackables in the cache" shown on the cache listing.

 

I think I'm pretty sure I know who you are talking about. They have gotten a bit smarter since then and leave less of a trail of their geocoin thefts.

 

I've started to buy geocoins to colect them. No way are they being let out into the public domain.

[+wmpastor]

Or we can, you know, just play the game for fun.

Now that's just crazy talk!

I know, I'm sorry. I don't know what came over me

Those who are having fun in their own way are in the game. The others go out quietly or noisily, and some who have left return make a cameo return appearance to post some shots on a new thread that gets locked after TPTB have a hurried conference on the private moderator's forum.

[+Bear and Ragged]

How about:

CO does not leave a log in the cache.

Every cacher carries their own ready signed log, and takes it away after finding the cache so they can reuse it.

 

Every finder is First To Find. AND... No wet/soggy/mushy logs in caches!

 

Problem solved!

[+The Lost Orfin's]

(A conscientious CO would have a game cam in operation also.)

 

Ummm...I assume your joking...right?

 

Edited to fix quotes....

Edited January 10, 2015 by The Lost Orfin's

[+wmpastor]

(A conscientious CO would have a game cam in operation also.)

 

Ummm...I assume your joking...right?

 

Edited to fix quotes....

Me jest? This is a serious game!

 

...

 

Of course!

[+wmpastor]

How about:

CO does not leave a log in the cache.

Every cacher carries their own ready signed log, and takes it away after finding the cache so they can reuse it.

Every finder is First To Find. AND... No wet/soggy/mushy logs in caches!

 

Problem solved!

 

Over time, people would stop seeking FTFs since they'd be meaningless.

 

This is a game. And like any game, people can get serious about playing it. And this game has many facets, many sub-games.

 

When things get ridiculous is when a group who likes one part thinks another part is less valid. Let's try a live and let live philosophy. This game has room for FTFs, puzzles, waymarks, geoart, etc. It's all good.

[+The Lost Orfin's]

(A conscientious CO would have a game cam in operation also.)

 

Ummm...I assume your joking...right?

 

Edited to fix quotes....

Me jest? This is a serious game!

 

...

 

Of course!

 

Whew.......

[+cheech gang]

When things get ridiculous is when a group who likes one part thinks another part is less valid. Let's try a live and let live philosophy. This game has room for FTFs, puzzles, waymarks, geoart, etc. It's all good.

 

True. Well, except for the part about "it's all good".

[+zookeepertx]

Well, to me it's simple. If I was FTF, and I signed a blank log sheet, then I know I was FTF. What someone says later is just so much fluff, and doesn't mean a thing, and I couldn't care less. I probably won't know if someone plays the trick the OP said, anyway. I rarely go back to see if there's another FTF claim!

 

I got a little teary-eyed reading your post! It's been SO long since I've seen the correct use of "couldn't care less" that I barely knew what it meant, LOL!

 

(ME? A grammar-bi***? Of course not! Why do you ask?)

 

[+BCandMsKitty]

Well, to me it's simple. If I was FTF, and I signed a blank log sheet, then I know I was FTF. What someone says later is just so much fluff, and doesn't mean a thing, and I couldn't care less. I probably won't know if someone plays the trick the OP said, anyway. I rarely go back to see if there's another FTF claim!

 

I got a little teary-eyed reading your post! It's been SO long since I've seen the correct use of "couldn't care less" that I barely knew what it meant, LOL!

 

(ME? A grammar-bi***? Of course not! Why do you ask?)

 

[+ArtieD]

I am like wmpastor...I take pictures every time I am FTF. I do that because one time there was a really new cacher who claimed FTF on a cache hidden by someone else. Thing is, much like the example below, the cache hider always wrote something on the top of the log. I rightfully claimed FTF because I was, so to settle the issue (because newbie cacher was raising a stink) the CO goes out and finds the log crudely ripped to get rid of my name...thing was, it still contained a bit of my signature, but no writing by the CO!

 

[+wmpastor]

I am like wmpastor...I take pictures every time I am FTF. I do that because one time there was a really new cacher who claimed FTF on a cache hidden by someone else. Thing is, much like the example below, the cache hider always wrote something on the top of the log. I rightfully claimed FTF because I was, so to settle the issue (because newbie cacher was raising a stink) the CO goes out and finds the log crudely ripped to get rid of my name...thing was, it still contained a bit of my signature, but no writing by the CO!

 

Sure - it's not rocket science. A bit of common sense and most problems are solved. By the way, i've been posting a photo or two routinely on most of my found logs recently. Many benefits for all, and simpler with smartphone caching.

[kekemes]

This FTF thing is so overrated in my opinion...

[+wmpastor]

This FTF thing is so overrated in my opinion...

Sometimes in games people pretend to be serious about something trivial in the grand scheme of things.... You don't really think i'd hire a handwriting expert to prove a FTF, do you??

 

Also, as i've said before, there are many sub-specialties within the game so that everyone can find what they enjoy.

 

By the way, does anyone know of an inexpensive handwriting expert?

[+NeverSummer]

I'm going to start writing my sig on logbooks with a white crayon, especially for any FTF...

 

 

[+crazypig88]

I'm going to start writing my sig on logbooks with a white crayon, especially for any FTF...

 

 

Why not a UV light pen?

[+NeverSummer]

I'm going to start writing my sig on logbooks with a white crayon, especially for any FTF...

 

 

Why not a UV light pen?

A UV pen is a TOTT in too many cache kits, that's why!

 

How about this: Sign for FTF with a white crayon, but date with a UV pen, while you ROT13 the whole thing, and then create a running key cipher using an IKEA catalog and English tabula recta, and...

[+crazypig88]

I'm going to start writing my sig on logbooks with a white crayon, especially for any FTF...

 

 

Why not a UV light pen?

A UV pen is a TOTT in too many cache kits, that's why!

 

How about this: Sign for FTF with a white crayon, but date with a UV pen, while you ROT13 the whole thing, and then create a running key cipher using an IKEA catalog and English tabula recta, and...

Perfect!