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[Feature]Add Labcaches to statistic + pq's


zymes
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Before when people want to find a special cache for an anniversary, fx. found cache #1000, #2000 etc., they could see it in the stats page on their public profile - but now if i find 998 "normal" caches and 2 labcaches, it wont correctly set my 1000th find as #1000, but instead it will show that i only have 998 finds.

 

Will labcaches be added to the statistics page? And also to the "my finds" pq, so people still can make other statistics etc. with fx. GSAK.

Edited by zymes
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As I've mentioned before, I don't care whether lab caches are ignored in the find counts (like benchmarks), or are included in the find counts (like virtual or webcam caches). But the way they are, they just confuse things. Logging a lab cache gives you two different find counts, and complicates questions like "How many have you found?" or "When is your next milestone?" which should be simple.

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As I've mentioned before, I don't care whether lab caches are ignored in the find counts (like benchmarks), or are included in the find counts (like virtual or webcam caches). But the way they are, they just confuse things. Logging a lab cache gives you two different find counts, and complicates questions like "How many have you found?" or "When is your next milestone?" which should be simple.

 

I've made this suggestion for the lab caches but I will say it again:

 

When GS/GC decides to count lab cache finds, it should not be done with a retroactive date. What I mean is, say starting April 1st (great day to start it), all previous lab cache finds should be counted as April 1st find not the original date. Why? Because milestones will change. From that day forward, they should count normally.

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As I've mentioned before, I don't care whether lab caches are ignored in the find counts (like benchmarks), or are included in the find counts (like virtual or webcam caches). But the way they are, they just confuse things.

I agree with you on that, the most important thing is that there will be clarity in relation to milestones and find count. It just has to be clear about whether I have X or Y finds, and when my next milestone is. Again, so i fx. can take HQ as my cache #5000, and not is confused about is it my #4987 or #5000 o_O

 

The sooner the better!

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Agreed! They should either count in all statistics, or not count in statistics at all (like benchmarks or whymarks.)

 

I'd favor not counting them at all. Lab caches are, by definition, experimental. I think getting a lab cache icon (both for hiders and finders) makes sense for participating in the experiment, but until a specific type of lab cache becomes an official cache type, I don't think it should count as a find.

 

 

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Not counting them at all has an easy solution. Just don't bother logging lab caches online. If you must, you can even go and log them just to verify you got the correct code word, and then after checking to see that they don't show up in your statistics, delete your find.

 

I think the issue is that people are afraid that at some point in the future, Groundspeak will retroactively go back and count lab caches in the stats. If this happens, a person may find that certain milestones change and what they thought was their 5000th find was really their 5003rd. While I wouldn't consider this a particularly dreadful event, I understand that those with OCD might suffer greatly should this occur.

 

Now they could avoid this angst by simply not logging the lab caches as stated in the first paragraph, but if sometime in the future these cache were to count retroactively, those afflicted with OCD will face the prospect of having found caches that they cannot go back and log (assuming that old lab caches can't be logged and deleted lab cache finds can't be undeleted).

 

My suggestion is that Groundspeak simply announce that existing lab caches will never be retroactively added to the statistics and that if, at some point in the future, Geocaching Labs adds the capability to count lab caches in the statistics, this capability will only be applied to new lab caches going forward.

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When GS/GC decides to count lab cache finds, it should not be done with a retroactive date. What I mean is, say starting April 1st (great day to start it), all previous lab cache finds should be counted as April 1st find not the original date. Why? Because milestones will change. From that day forward, they should count normally.

I don't like that idea, only because to me it makes things less accurate. Why should I get credit for finding a cache on April 1 if I actually found the cache back on Feb. 26?

 

And, the milestones don't really change. Your 5000th cache would still be your 5000th cache, it just might not be the cache you thought it was. Doesn't change the fact that the cache you consider to be 5000 was really 5001.

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Not counting towards finds but still get a new icon, treated the same as benchmarks, seemed (to me) the less-angst way to go with an experimental hide idea.

I believe plenty would have done them just for the icon.

A little late now to keep some from griping, but it could be just chalked as another "better mistake".

Challenge hides got vaporized, so it's not like that isn't still an option...

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I would really like an "official" answer about what the plan is. Will it be added (if yes, is there a timeline?), will labcache finds not be counted in the number of finds, it is not decided yet, or...?

It really just confuses as it is now, when "caches found" is X, and the stats says Y.

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The only "official" answer has been posted in the blog as well as in the release notes. It has not yet been decided what will happen with labs and statistics in the future - they are by design a test ground, and the team wants to experiment more before declaring them full-fledged caches.

 

I was under the impression based on the FAQ's from the "I <3 Geocaching" promo that it was going to be added, seems to be different from what you are saying..

 

http://blog.geocaching.com/2014/01/iheartgeocachingfaq/

 

The short answer is, “It will in the future.” The current statistics system does not support Lab Cache finds, but it will in the future. We’ll keep you posted. For even more information check out our Help Center.

 

as a quick edit: I know "in the future" could be a long ways off.. don't want to imply that it was going to be added now

Edited by Decer
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as a quick edit: I know "in the future" could be a long ways off.. don't want to imply that it was going to be added now

 

That's the current state. The team wants to eventually add them, but there is no concrete plan to do so yet and some of the technical challenges must be overcome first (lab caches are in a completely separate database).

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The only "official" answer has been posted in the blog as well as in the release notes. It has not yet been decided what will happen with labs and statistics in the future - they are by design a test ground, and the team wants to experiment more before declaring them full-fledged caches.

It's understandable that Labcaches are a work in progress and that the development team may add or change some features in the future. What I think is causing an issue for some people who have a particular idea of what geocaching.com statistic should show, is that one possibility is that a future capability may allow labcaches to be used in calculating geocaching.com statistics (not just count as a find).

 

The FAQ for I <3 Geocaches implies that a future capability will, in fact, include labcaches when Geocaching.com statistics are computed. It further makes it seem that this capability will be retroactive; i.e., mega-event labs and I <3 geocaching labs will someday start to be included in stats.

 

As I pointed out above, this causes a dilemma for geocachers who are obsessive about their stats. Until the change is made, milestones are counted one way; after the change is made, milestones are counted a different way. It may be easy enough to choose which way to count your milestones personally, but someone with an obsessive personality is going to worry that they pick the "wrong" way. If for some reason, Groundspeak does not make good on its promise for counting labcaches in the future, or if the future capability is not retroactive, an obsessive person is not going to want to count labcaches toward milestones. However if the lab caches will, in fact, count in the statistics in the future, the milestone/stats obsessed cacher will want to count these when figuring out milestones.

 

To alleviate the angst of the statistics obsessed, Groundspeak needs to guarantee what they will do in the future - something that I don't think they want to do. I believe that the best approach may be to state that "in the future", labcaches may be included when computing statistics, but that labcaches found before this capability exist will not retroactively count in statistics. Then the statistics obsessed can chose to not log labcaches or not count them for milestones until such time as they are included in geocaching.com statistics.

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How do I get rid of it? I'd just as soon have my find count match my calendar. I don't care that much about the icon.

Go to your profile, click on geocaches, then lab caches. There is a garbage can on the right of each lab cache. Touch that and they are gone forever and can never be gotten back.

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As it's been over TWO MONTHS now since lab caches were found by many cachers, can we have some kind of idea from Groundspeak when the find will show on the stats page (as indicated it would by a question raised on the blog at the time). I understand that some coding needs to be changed on the site, but the delay is now getting over long.

 

These kind of changes are apparently possible to implement without too much problem (see the new Giga icon introduced yesterday) so why is it taking so long for lab caches?

Edited by mellers
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These kind of changes are apparently possible to implement without too much problem (see the new Giga icon introduced yesterday) so why is it taking so long for lab caches?

You're obviously not a programmer. ;) EVEN IF they decide to integrate them (which they haven't, as per moun10bike's posts of March 24th), the lab caches are in a separate database. That's a lot harder to change than adding a cache type.

 

Go to your profile, click on geocaches, then lab caches. There is a garbage can on the right of each lab cache. Touch that and they are gone forever and can never be gotten back.

When I go to My Profile and Geocaches, I don't find a Lab Caches link. Could you supply a URL? This is starting to bother me, since it messed up one of my milestones. :)

 

EDIT: Never mind - I figured it out. I needed to go to my public profile, not my private one.

Edited by TriciaG
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Domo!!!

 

EXTRA! EXTRA! EXTRA!

 

Email newsletter from HQ:

 

"Your Lab Cache finds are now more official than ever. Lab Caches are scheduled to be rolled into Geocaching find statistics and your milestones beginning on June 3, 2014. Besides cheering, there's one other thing you might want to consider doing.

 

The addition of your Lab Cache finds may alter your milestones. Check now to lock-in milestones on your Geocaching.com profile. After the update, you'll be able to use the tool to lock in a Lab Cache find as a milestone. You'll also find Lab Cache stats on your chronology and geocache types section. If you created a Lab Cache and it was logged, you'll find new stats on your owned geocaches page.

 

Thanks for finding a Lab Cache and helping to play a part in shaping the future of geocaching.

 

Sincerely,

Everyone at Geocaching HQ"

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Best announcement ever!!!

 

EXTRA! EXTRA! EXTRA!

 

Email newsletter from HQ:

 

"Your Lab Cache finds are now more official than ever. Lab Caches are scheduled to be rolled into Geocaching find statistics and your milestones beginning on June 3, 2014.

 

So pleased to see my statistics in the right order again. This was driving me nuts.

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Cue the complaints from folks that DON'T want lab caches included in the stats.
I don't recall many complaints from such folks. IIRC, the complaints were from people (like me) who wanted them either to count fully in the stats, or to not count at all in the stats. The objection was to the confusion caused by lab caches counting for some stats but not for others.

 

And now that's been resolved! :D

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Cue the complaints from folks that DON'T want lab caches included in the stats.
I don't recall many complaints from such folks. IIRC, the complaints were from people (like me) who wanted them either to count fully in the stats, or to not count at all in the stats. The objection was to the confusion caused by lab caches counting for some stats but not for others.

 

And now that's been resolved! :D

 

Aww, it was more of a joking commentary on how the threads usually run around here and how responses to GS's efforts tend to go. They seem to get whacked no matter which way they go.

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So atm I see Labs in my overall count but not in stats? It means my Stats count and actual count are different. Why not just add them to all stats and if Ground speak choose not to go forward with them then treat them like a grandfathered cache type that no longer exists?

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So atm I see Labs in my overall count but not in stats? It means my Stats count and actual count are different. Why not just add them to all stats and if Ground speak choose not to go forward with them then treat them like a grandfathered cache type that no longer exists?

 

Check it again tomorrow. Lab caches are slated to start counting towards all of your stats starting June 3rd 2014.

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So atm I see Labs in my overall count but not in stats? It means my Stats count and actual count are different. Why not just add them to all stats and if Ground speak choose not to go forward with them then treat them like a grandfathered cache type that no longer exists?

 

Check it again tomorrow. Lab caches are slated to start counting towards all of your stats starting June 3rd 2014.

 

So it's now June 4th. What's the holdup?

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So atm I see Labs in my overall count but not in stats? It means my Stats count and actual count are different. Why not just add them to all stats and if Ground speak choose not to go forward with them then treat them like a grandfathered cache type that no longer exists?

 

Check it again tomorrow. Lab caches are slated to start counting towards all of your stats starting June 3rd 2014.

 

So it's now June 4th. What's the holdup?

Still June 3rd in the Frog's TimeZone...

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Where do you read that i won't come in the "My finds"-PQ?

 

Ahh, found it. But whyyyyyyy?

Because it would be a new type and mess up the schema

 

A new type would *not* mess up the schema. The type is just a string and, according to the schema, is unbounded; that is, the element can contain *any* string. There are applications which *assume* that the type will be one of the existing cache types, typically to display a specific image (i.e. a green ammo box for a traditional cache), and don't account for the possibility that the element might not be one of the existing values (such as LabCache). A well written application could display an appropriate image if one of the current cache types is found, and some other image the element contains anything else. If GS wanted to add "LabCache" to a pocket query it would not require a change to the schema.

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Site's back up now and it appears that the transformation is complete. Lab caches have appeared where I might have expected them to appear, and where they're missing a suitable explanation is given.

 

In addition, I've spotted two extra stats which weren't there before which appear in the Your Caching Chronology section:

 

Current Streak

 

and

 

Current Slump

 

Not quite sure why these have been added (I can't seem them having any use for challenge caches etc.), but I'm sure the latter will start to taunt me if it starts to get too large! ;)

 

Thanks techie guys.

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I have the same problem here, I solved some Labcaches two days ago, but was only able to log them online today, so they are all added for today. Is there any way to change this?

 

Thanks in advance!

 

How do I go about editing the date of my lab cache finds?

I found the answers for my lab caches on 05/24 but finally logged them today. Is there no way to edit the find date?

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