Arizona cacher dies doing what he loved

[+Ike 13]

Just read this article http://www.azcentral.com/arizonarepublic/local/articles/2012/07/08/20120708cave-creek-man-found-dead-geocaching.html

 

Sad ending but good to hear that the caching community helped find his body.

 

Here's the cache: http://coord.info/GC3PXG1

[+Harry Dolphin]

Sad. But he was doing what he enjoyed.

What bothers me is "Garick said she was angry that Phoenix police wouldn't launch a missing-persons search after she called."

A least 24 hours must pass before police will launch a missing-persons search. Definitely misplaced anger.

[+blackhorse221]

A least 24 hours must pass before police will launch a missing-persons search. Definitely misplaced anger.

 

Not necessarily true, Harry Dolphin. It depends on the department's policies. The department I work for has no such policy. If someone can articulate why the person may be in immediate danger, such as a missing child, suspicion of a crime (kidnapping) or a 79 year old man who has not returned from activity in the desert, we would begin a search immediately. There is no national standard on when a search must begin or when an NCIC entry can be made. Phoenix PD is not the only department out here that has a mandatory 24 hour policy, but they are the biggest.

 

Either way, this is an incredible story with a tragic ending. Tragic because a cacher beloved in this community is gone, but incredible because how that community responded when he went missing, and how they have rallied around each other in love and support.

Edited July 9, 2012 by blackhorse221

[AZcachemeister]

Bummer, but better than 'getting it' in a car-crash on the freeway.

 

I've done a bunch of his caches, and many were challenging and creative.

[+SwineFlew]

This is the general area of where my aunt lives. I havent heard anything from her of yet.

 

I had never met or heard of him but it made me sad. As least he was doing something he loves.

 

RIP Chuck

[+Jayman11]

Very sad indeed.

[+geocat_]

God, I got a chill reading his log....like a ghost from the other side. Sad story indeed. Glad he was out doing what he loved right until the end. RIP.

[+Alkhalikoi]

In all events, I'm gratified that geocachers came out as a group to help look for the guy. Not that I'd expect anything less, but still...

[+The Jester]

A least 24 hours must pass before police will launch a missing-persons search. Definitely misplaced anger.

 

Not necessarily true, Harry Dolphin. It depends on the department's policies. The department I work for has no such policy. If someone can articulate why the person may be in immediate danger, such as a missing child, suspicion of a crime (kidnapping) or a 79 year old man who has not returned from activity in the desert, we would begin a search immediately. There is no national standard on when a search must begin or when an NCIC entry can be made. Phoenix PD is not the only department out here that has a mandatory 24 hour policy, but they are the biggest.

 

Either way, this is an incredible story with a tragic ending. Tragic because a cacher beloved in this community is gone, but incredible because how that community responded when he went missing, and how they have rallied around each other in love and support.

The article said the search wasn't started as they had no direction to start the search. After the car was found, officers helped.

[+popokiiti]

Sincere condolences to Chuck's family. The CO of Chuck's last FTF has shown great class in temporarily disabling the cache, and renaming it in Chuck's honour.

[+The_Incredibles_]

Hey, he got FTF! Not a bad way to go.

Edited July 10, 2012 by The_Incredibles_

[Tahosa and Sons]

A real story of cachers.

[+Tsegi Mike and Desert Viking]

I was shocked to see this on the news tonight. We have found many of his caches and have met some of those who looked for him. The desert is a dangerous place. Im pretty much at a loss for words. Our thoughts and prayers for the family and friends of gncaz. He will be greatly missed.

[+Redfist]

It was pretty rough to deal with. After we determined where the car was parked, many of us raced out there to search.

 

A friend of mine and I showed up with our camelbacks loaded with water, flashlights, poles, GPSs, etc. The family was on site and speaking with the Phoenix police. To their credit, the police gratefully accepted our help and swapped phone numbers to help coordinate field activities. As we were out searching, police helicopters were being guided to likely locations based on GPS coordinates we were feeding to them (like the location of the FTF Chuck had likely gone for).

 

Chuck's family was super grateful and supportive when we arrived on site and obviously devastated when we returned. There were 3 teams of us out there searching in addition to the police. My friend and I were about 1 mile south in the desert when the police called asking us to return since another team had found Chuck.

 

The mood when we got back to the trailhead was obviously very sad and sobering. I was moved and impressed by the strength and bonding showed by Chuck's family. It was a night I'll never forget.

[+The Blorenges]

Very sad to read this story which I noticed first on Geocaching UK (facebook group).

 

He was one of our world-wide family of geocachers. Reading the tributes from his friends it is obvious he was a great chap and much loved.

 

Our condolences to his family and all who knew him.

 

The Blorenges.

[knowschad]

It was pretty rough to deal with. After we determined where the car was parked, many of us raced out there to search.

Any official word on cause of death yet, Redfist?

[+Redfist]

It was pretty rough to deal with. After we determined where the car was parked, many of us raced out there to search.

Any official word on cause of death yet, Redfist?

 

Not that I know of. I heard that an autopsy would be performed, but those details will obviously go to the family.

[+Don_J]

It was pretty rough to deal with. After we determined where the car was parked, many of us raced out there to search.

 

A friend of mine and I showed up with our camelbacks loaded with water, flashlights, poles, GPSs, etc. The family was on site and speaking with the Phoenix police. To their credit, the police gratefully accepted our help and swapped phone numbers to help coordinate field activities. As we were out searching, police helicopters were being guided to likely locations based on GPS coordinates we were feeding to them (like the location of the FTF Chuck had likely gone for).

 

Chuck's family was super grateful and supportive when we arrived on site and obviously devastated when we returned. There were 3 teams of us out there searching in addition to the police. My friend and I were about 1 mile south in the desert when the police called asking us to return since another team had found Chuck.

 

The mood when we got back to the trailhead was obviously very sad and sobering. I was moved and impressed by the strength and bonding showed by Chuck's family. It was a night I'll never forget.

 

First, I want to commend you for your efforts. I know that you were just doing what any of us would do, because it is the right thing to do, but I think that it should be noted, nonetheless. I'm sorry that it turned out as it did.

 

I'm curious as to the terrain, and if the heat may have had anything to do with this. The article said that he started his hike at 11am, and the weather bug on the newscast the next day is showing 111. I know that we get acclimated to our environment, and he was obviously healthy enough to be hiking in the desert. I have seen comments in another forum that because of his age, he shouldn't have been there. I don't think that his age had anything to do with anything. I'm wondering if anyone should have been there at that time of day.

 

I have hiked in the sun when it was just as hot and I'll be the first to admit that it wasn't the smartest thing to do, but I did it without a problem. I have also found myself in serious trouble while hiking at 90 degrees and facing a choice of pouring my precious drinking water over my head to cool down. Luckily, I knew that the State Parks had a fire hydrant with a hose nozzle on it about a mile up where the trail let on a fire road and I could replenish my supply. The article said that he suffered a fall into a ravine. My only vantage point is Google Earth, but when you tilt it, the ravines do not look very serious. What I do not see in Google Earth is any shade or any trees. This is why I am wondering if the heat may have been the root cause of what happened.

 

Please understand, I can not stress enough that it is not my intention to second guess anyone or try to play Monday Morning quarterback here. I am simply curious and I think with information we can prevent this happening to others.

[+Jazzmasters]

We're sorry for your loss, and our prayers are with the family. The sad news is spreading through Georgia.

[+Redfist]

It was pretty rough to deal with. After we determined where the car was parked, many of us raced out there to search.

 

A friend of mine and I showed up with our camelbacks loaded with water, flashlights, poles, GPSs, etc. The family was on site and speaking with the Phoenix police. To their credit, the police gratefully accepted our help and swapped phone numbers to help coordinate field activities. As we were out searching, police helicopters were being guided to likely locations based on GPS coordinates we were feeding to them (like the location of the FTF Chuck had likely gone for).

 

Chuck's family was super grateful and supportive when we arrived on site and obviously devastated when we returned. There were 3 teams of us out there searching in addition to the police. My friend and I were about 1 mile south in the desert when the police called asking us to return since another team had found Chuck.

 

The mood when we got back to the trailhead was obviously very sad and sobering. I was moved and impressed by the strength and bonding showed by Chuck's family. It was a night I'll never forget.

 

First, I want to commend you for your efforts. I know that you were just doing what any of us would do, because it is the right thing to do, but I think that it should be noted, nonetheless. I'm sorry that it turned out as it did.

 

I'm curious as to the terrain, and if the heat may have had anything to do with this. The article said that he started his hike at 11am, and the weather bug on the newscast the next day is showing 111. I know that we get acclimated to our environment, and he was obviously healthy enough to be hiking in the desert. I have seen comments in another forum that because of his age, he shouldn't have been there. I don't think that his age had anything to do with anything. I'm wondering if anyone should have been there at that time of day.

 

I have hiked in the sun when it was just as hot and I'll be the first to admit that it wasn't the smartest thing to do, but I did it without a problem. I have also found myself in serious trouble while hiking at 90 degrees and facing a choice of pouring my precious drinking water over my head to cool down. Luckily, I knew that the State Parks had a fire hydrant with a hose nozzle on it about a mile up where the trail let on a fire road and I could replenish my supply. The article said that he suffered a fall into a ravine. My only vantage point is Google Earth, but when you tilt it, the ravines do not look very serious. What I do not see in Google Earth is any shade or any trees. This is why I am wondering if the heat may have been the root cause of what happened.

 

Please understand, I can not stress enough that it is not my intention to second guess anyone or try to play Monday Morning quarterback here. I am simply curious and I think with information we can prevent this happening to others.

 

With the obvious disclaimer that I have no confirmation about what complications he ran into, here are my thoughts and answers to some of your questions.

 

1. The area in question isn't terribly steep, but there are moments of steepness and it can be slippery (as in small rocks that can slide out from under your boots). There are also a lot of very pokey things (cholla, etc.).

2. Heat was most likelihood a factor at least to some degree. Hiking in the desert in 111 degree weather requires carrying a lot of water. You loose way more water through evaporative sweat than you'd imagine.

3. Hiking in the heat in remote areas shouldn't be done solo. YES, I have done it plenty of times but this episode makes me rethink that approach. If you get dehydrated in the heat, you can easily become disoriented and loose your bearing. If you break an ankle or get bit by a rattlesnake, you can easily become immobile. There are areas where cell phone coverage can't be relied upon out there.

[7rxc]

 

With the obvious disclaimer that I have no confirmation about what complications he ran into, here are my thoughts and answers to some of your questions.

 

1. The area in question isn't terribly steep, but there are moments of steepness and it can be slippery (as in small rocks that can slide out from under your boots). There are also a lot of very pokey things (cholla, etc.).

2. Heat was most likelihood a factor at least to some degree. Hiking in the desert in 111 degree weather requires carrying a lot of water. You loose way more water through evaporative sweat than you'd imagine.

3. Hiking in the heat in remote areas shouldn't be done solo. YES, I have done it plenty of times but this episode makes me rethink that approach. If you get dehydrated in the heat, you can easily become disoriented and loose your bearing. If you break an ankle or get bit by a rattlesnake, you can easily become immobile. There are areas where cell phone coverage can't be relied upon out there.

 

First off, condolences to the family and friends re their loss. Hope they find respite in the thought that he was doing exactly what he enjoyed so much.

 

Kudos to the Geocaching community that stepped up to research and execute a successful if down sided search. Be aware that most areas have Critical Incident Stress Management counselors for such times. They are well known to 'official' search groups and police, EMS etc. Not sure of the background of your group of Geocachers, but sometimes it's hard spotting this in trained people, so it can sneak up on convergent searchers. The emotional ups and downs can really get to people of all levels.

 

For those that quote the '24 hours before' rule, there is a difference between 'missing' and 'overdue' in many jurisdictions.

Also there is a big difference in just what can be done in a given situation. Calling a massive search effort is usually the result of having sufficient information to base one on. In this case they did NOT at first. But I'm willing to bet that the police at least made a note of it for general patrols. Determining that Last Known Position or Point Last Seen is critical to planning.

Look at the results AFTER they knew where he was going based on the review of his computer. IF people make one choice from this, it should be to make sure that such information is easily accessible by the person who is likely to make the call in the first place.

 

One of my favourite topics is the use of a 'Trip Plan'. It should be automatic especially when going out alone, more so when there is a degree of elevated risk. It sounds cumbersome but isn't that much. I can only link to an example provided freely here in Canada. But remember that MOST local Search and Rescue units and/or outdoor groups have them available or should.

 

The one I've been offering is Trip Plan

No one has to use that, but using it as a guide to what is needed isn't hard.

 

These forms are based on information required to fill out an ICS 302 Missing Persons Questionaire. They don't have boxes for everything that can go on a MPQ, but have more than enough to get things rolling effectively. Small details can be added later on secondary interviews.

 

The whole process is no different than a parent asking their kids "Where are you going, when will you be back?" It can be scaled to

the risk in many cases... from I'm going to the park for an hour to climbing up Mt.Everest as needed. Descriptors are slightly different, since they tell us what to look for in general... Do you remember what your kid was wearing when they went out today?

 

One last thought. Recently Snoogans created a topic that was a bit of an eye opener... been down list for a while, it has a few other links in there as well. Interesting reading, since many of the examples involve similar circumstances.

 

Near Misses

 

Last comment, I just did a roughout on what is known as a Response Urgency Chart, and this situation keeps coming out as HIGHEST urgency situation. I'd say that some dialogue between the local caching group, SAR, and Police is required. We've been trying to get Geocaching as a prime question on the 'purpose of trip' section. More and more people are heading out where they have never/seldom ventured before to seek caches. Not a real panic, but as was noted, the Geocachers knew how to use that information to excellent advantage to locate the person. Let them know how much you are into and capable of, consider taking Ground Search training with your local SAR group (there is no requirement to be a technical rescuer for that, it is a starting point and requirement to be involved in Search operations when formalized (in many places)). IF that doesn't appeal to a person, then consider that SAR groups require funding and are always looking for support. So, Support the services they provide, and make sure you use that Trip Plan AND cancel it when completed.

 

Doug 7rxc

[+Snoogans]

Sorry to hear about another caching related death. My condolences to his family and friends.

 

I'm very proud of that local community for recovering him so quickly.

 

This case kind of reminds me of the death in San Antonio a few years back although that one wasn't an FTF run.

 

Be careful out there and always let someone know where you are going.

 

We can't prevent every geocaching death but an ounce of prevention and all that...

 

I have to say that the renaming of the cache as a tribute is kinda cool in this situation.

[+humboldt flier]

Sorry to hear about another caching related death. My condolences to his family and friends.

 

I'm very proud of that local community for recovering him so quickly.

 

This case kind of reminds me of the death in San Antonio a few years back although that one wasn't an FTF run.

 

Be careful out there and always let someone know where you are going.

 

We can't prevent every geocaching death but an ounce of prevention and all that...

 

I have to say that the renaming of the cache as a tribute is kinda cool in this situation.

 

Well said Snoo.

[+Team Rambo]

R.I.P. Chuck!

[+OZ2CPU]

Thanks alot Doug for a few good links and info.

I did hike arround in Arizona ALONE, many years ago, no GPS, no map, nothing, just me,

and no one knew where I was. I was only gone about a halve day, in the summer !!

oh man, a very unsmart thing to do, I really underestimated the heat and how long the hike was supposed to be,

I was tired for two days, and sun burned very badly.

but hey, I am a turist not used to sun the really works.

[+SwineFlew]

Chuck's Memorial Cache

 

Its an event for Chuck.

 

I thought it should be added on here in case cachers want to know.

Edited July 12, 2012 by SwineFlew

[+Dan2099]

If someone died hunting a cache you made, I wonder if you would feel guilty?

[+SwineFlew]

If someone died hunting a cache you made, I wonder if you would feel guilty?

Can we have another thread about this? I got a lot to say about this but I feel its best on a thread of it own.

[+Manville Possum]

If someone died hunting a cache you made, I wonder if you would feel guilty?

 

I have a listed EarthCache (GC32DP4) along the A/T where a father and son drowned recently. They were not there for the EC, but swimming at the falls. Just a few days before I was hiking and happened upon the scene of another drowning at a State Park. There is no reason for me to feel any guilt, but I do feel grief.

 

http://www.johnsoncitypress.com/News/article.php?id=101194

 

http://www.timesnews.net/article/9048662/search-under-way-for-suspected-drowning-victim-at-warriors

Edited July 13, 2012 by Manville Possum Hunters

[+OZ2CPU]

>If someone died hunting a cache you made, I wonder if you would feel guilty?

 

Guilty, NOT AT ALL !!!

Sad, YES ALOT, it is always terrible when people get hurt or die.

 

Listen, all outdoor activities are up to the player to perform using correct education and equipment

and to self evaluate if a phycical hike or challenge is safe according to own skils, health level, traning and equipment.

it is FINE to choose NOT to take a cache, if you dont feel it is safe for YOU.

I even see people wanting to Archive a cache if it is located over a cliff edge..

some think ALL caches should be possible to take by kids without reading the cache page or the Diff/Terr ratings,

We really enjoy hard to get stuff, we seek it..

actually tomorrow we goto a special event where most caches released are expected to be needing

some kind of safety or climbing equipment to get access to their log, wow great I say..

[7rxc]

If someone died hunting a cache you made, I wonder if you would feel guilty?

 

I think that in that situation, it would be grief not guilt as was said by another.

 

Since I would never place a cache with a sense of malice towards anyone that might attempt it Guilt does not seem to by appropriate.

 

There is a world of difference there. Probably someone who hid a cache intending to cause someone harm wouldn't feel any guilt regardless, because they would be busy being sociopathic or something like that. Beyond my ken I fear.

 

Thankfully I think such people are rare in most places, and hope they stay that way.

 

Practical Jokers however... Well I'm not in favour of that very much either when it's anonymous with no hope of avenging one's honour.

 

Doug 7rxc

[+merlot]

If someone died hunting a cache you made, I wonder if you would feel guilty?

[+merlot]

I'm the cache owner of Chuck's Last First GC3PXG1. The cache was originally called Pedal on the Ocotillo Trail.

I saw this thread a few days ago but didn't want to respond until after Chuck's Funeral.

 

No, I do not feel guilty. Yes, I'm hurting just like the family and the 51 cachers watching the cache page.

I have known both Chuck and his wife, Ginny for about two years and have cached with him several times including an incredible day less than a month ago.

 

The difficulty and terrain were maybe over-rated but certainly not underrated. The Ocotillo trail is an intermediate level hike/bike trail around the base of a hill.

I hiked from the same trailhead as Chuck, but in my log I referred to the concrete hike/bike trail just south of the cache. In fact, I placed the cache within 250 feet of the concrete path. This path is so level you could ride rollerskates to the access point. The cache could be found within seconds since there was nothing else around.

 

Chuck made several mistakes. Everyone probably has made some of the those same mistakes. But we were given a second chance. Unfortunately, Chuck didn't get that second chance.

[+KBfamily]

I'm the cache owner of Chuck's Last First GC3PXG1. The cache was originally called Pedal on the Ocotillo Trail.

I saw this thread a few days ago but didn't want to respond until after Chuck's Funeral.

 

No, I do not feel guilty. Yes, I'm hurting just like the family and the 51 cachers watching the cache page.

I have known both Chuck and his wife, Ginny for about two years and have cached with him several times including an incredible day less than a month ago.

 

The difficulty and terrain were maybe over-rated but certainly not underrated. The Ocotillo trail is an intermediate level hike/bike trail around the base of a hill.

I hiked from the same trailhead as Chuck, but in my log I referred to the concrete hike/bike trail just south of the cache. In fact, I placed the cache within 250 feet of the concrete path. This path is so level you could ride rollerskates to the access point. The cache could be found within seconds since there was nothing else around.

 

Chuck made several mistakes. Everyone probably has made some of the those same mistakes. But we were given a second chance. Unfortunately, Chuck didn't get that second chance.

 

 

Hugs to you Merlot.....

Edited July 17, 2012 by KBfamily

[+spiritwolf922]

Wow. Kudos to all those who responded to the need to help a fellow cacher. Condolences to the family. Just another example of how people pull together when needed.