Logging Archived Caches

[+bflentje]

What's the consensus on logging archived caches. I've read the forums over the years but want to hear it again.

 

Had a roadcruise planned three weeks in advance and a PQ was generated that contains a geocache in its active state. Days following PQ generation but a couple weeks before the trip, cache owner archives the cache, including ALL of his caches, because he decided he no longer can tolerate "TFTC" logs. The cache owner leaves his geo-trash in the woods. A cache that was in not so good shape and hardly maintained. Roadcruise underway, we find the (now archived) cache in the woods, sign the log not even realizing the cache was archived until logging online. We log as a find as I think most people would. Cache owner decides to delete our logs, indicating we are not allowed to log an archived cache. Pissing match starts to escalate when I realize I just need to appeal it to geocaching.com.

Edited November 30, 2011 by bflentje

[+Keelmann And Cici]

I'd say don't log it, and if I logged in good faith to find out it was archived, I'd let the whole matter go.

[+Lil Devil]

I just need to appeal it to geocaching.com.

Correct. You need to email contact@ and they'll reinstate your log and slap the CO.

[Mr.Yuck]

What's the consensus on logging archived caches. I've read the forums over the years but want to hear it again.

 

Had a roadcruise planned three weeks in advance and a PQ was generated that contains a geocache in its active state. Days following PQ generation but a couple weeks before the trip, cache owner archives the cache, including ALL of his caches, because he decided he no longer can tolerate "TFTC" logs. The cache owner leaves his geo-trash in the woods. A cache that was in not so good shape and hardly maintained. Roadcruise underway, we find the (now archived) cache in the woods, sign the log not even realizing the cache was archived until logging online. We log as a find as I think most people would. Cache owner decides to delete our logs, indicating we are not allowed to log an archived cache. Pissing match starts to escalate when I realize I just need to appeal it to geocaching.com.

 

I'm more intrigued by the guy archiving his caches because he can no longer tolerate "TFTC" logs. I was going to hold out until they comprise at least 50% of cache logs. I figure I still have a couple years there.

 

In my opinion, the consensus is generally that it's fine and dandy to log archived caches that are still sitting in the woods. However, in a case like this, where you have a hostile owner who appears to be against it for his cache, I think you would actually lose the appeal with Groundspeak.

[+bflentje]

I'd say don't log it, and if I logged in good faith to find out it was archived, I'd let the whole matter go.

 

Wrong answer.

[+BlueDeuce]

I just need to appeal it to geocaching.com.

Correct. You need to email contact@ and they'll reinstate your log and slap the CO.

 

Yep.

[+Ms.Scrabbler]

What's the consensus on logging archived caches. I've read the forums over the years but want to hear it again.

 

Had a roadcruise planned three weeks in advance and a PQ was generated that contains a geocache in its active state. Days following PQ generation but a couple weeks before the trip, cache owner archives the cache, including ALL of his caches, because he decided he no longer can tolerate "TFTC" logs. The cache owner leaves his geo-trash in the woods. A cache that was in not so good shape and hardly maintained. Roadcruise underway, we find the (now archived) cache in the woods, sign the log not even realizing the cache was archived until logging online. We log as a find as I think most people would. Cache owner decides to delete our logs, indicating we are not allowed to log an archived cache. Pissing match starts to escalate when I realize I just need to appeal it to geocaching.com.

My curiosity got the best of me - did you write more that TFTC in your log?

[+bflentje]

What's the consensus on logging archived caches. I've read the forums over the years but want to hear it again.

 

Had a roadcruise planned three weeks in advance and a PQ was generated that contains a geocache in its active state. Days following PQ generation but a couple weeks before the trip, cache owner archives the cache, including ALL of his caches, because he decided he no longer can tolerate "TFTC" logs. The cache owner leaves his geo-trash in the woods. A cache that was in not so good shape and hardly maintained. Roadcruise underway, we find the (now archived) cache in the woods, sign the log not even realizing the cache was archived until logging online. We log as a find as I think most people would. Cache owner decides to delete our logs, indicating we are not allowed to log an archived cache. Pissing match starts to escalate when I realize I just need to appeal it to geocaching.com.

My curiosity got the best of me - did you write more that TFTC in your log?

 

Rarely do I ever just write TFTC (or anything similar). The cache would have to seriously stink like no other in order for me to write something so short.

[+Andromeda321]

I've done that once or twice and logged the cache without issue.

 

The awkward moment with that was when someone left geotrash in the woods after archiving the cache, and I left a TB in without realizing the situation. And then it was too far for me to go back... Luckily the CO went out sooner than I could and moved the TB along (and presumably took away the cache).

[+sbell111]

I just need to appeal it to geocaching.com.

Correct. You need to email contact@ and they'll reinstate your log and slap the CO.

 

Yep.

Yep, yep.

[+StarBrand]

I just need to appeal it to geocaching.com.

Correct. You need to email contact@ and they'll reinstate your log and slap the CO.

 

Yep.

Yep, yep.

yep x 3 +1

[Mr.Yuck]

I just need to appeal it to geocaching.com.

Correct. You need to email contact@ and they'll reinstate your log and slap the CO.

 

Yep.

Yep, yep.

yep x 3 +1

 

So apparently no one likes my prediction the Frog would side with the cache owner here?

[+Keelmann And Cici]

I'd say don't log it, and if I logged in good faith to find out it was archived, I'd let the whole matter go.

 

Wrong answer.

 

Sorry, that's what I would do. Wasn't trying to imply some rule, or Groundspeak decision.

[+Flintstone5611]

I'll bite. Why would Signal side with the CO when the only real reason to delete a log is if it is inappropriate or not supported by the physical log?

[TheCacheSeeker]

I just need to appeal it to geocaching.com.

Correct. You need to email contact@ and they'll reinstate your log and slap the CO.

 

Yep.

Yep, yep.

yep x 3 +1

yep, yep, yep, yep.

[I!]

What's the consensus on logging archived caches.

I think "archived" should mean just that, and the website not permit further logs except by a reviewer.

[+briansnat]

I think if you found it you should log a found it, archived or not.

[+bflentje]

I'd say don't log it, and if I logged in good faith to find out it was archived, I'd let the whole matter go.

 

Wrong answer.

 

Sorry, that's what I would do. Wasn't trying to imply some rule, or Groundspeak decision.

 

I meant, wrong answer for me.

[+BlueDeuce]

 

So apparently no one likes my prediction the Frog would side with the cache owner here?

 

What cache?

 

 

[+bflentje]

What's the consensus on logging archived caches.

I think "archived" should mean just that, and the website not permit further logs except by a reviewer.

 

I think that if the CO were responsible and went out and picked up the geo-junk, I'd lean towards your opinion. But when the dude leaves his crap in the woods? Fair game until it's picked up.

[I!]

What's the consensus on logging archived caches.

I think "archived" should mean just that, and the website not permit further logs except by a reviewer.

I think that if the CO were responsible and went out and picked up the geo-junk, I'd lean towards your opinion. But when the dude leaves his crap in the woods? Fair game until it's picked up.

What if the CO wishes to keep the cache where it is, but switch the listing from geocaching.com to rivalcaching.org? Just as they allowed their cache to be "played" on gc.com, so should they be able to retract the "game piece" from future play on gc.com.

 

Of course, I can see why the frog would not rush to support the easy transfer of business to competitors.

[+BlueDeuce]

What's the consensus on logging archived caches.

I think "archived" should mean just that, and the website not permit further logs except by a reviewer.

I think that if the CO were responsible and went out and picked up the geo-junk, I'd lean towards your opinion. But when the dude leaves his crap in the woods? Fair game until it's picked up.

What if the CO wishes to keep the cache where it is, but switch the listing from geocaching.com to rivalcaching.org? Just as they allowed their cache to be "played" on gc.com, so should they be able to retract the "game piece" from future play on gc.com.

 

Of course, I can see why the frog would not rush to support the easy transfer of business to competitors.

 

Well, we can discuss extremes but if that's the case ask the reviewer to lock it down.

[jholly]

What's the consensus on logging archived caches.

I think "archived" should mean just that, and the website not permit further logs except by a reviewer.

There was a mystery cache in Seattle that was archived for years. During this time it had hundreds, if not a couple thousand, logs. The frog had no problem allowing these logs to stand.

[+baloo&bd]

What's the consensus on logging archived caches.

I think "archived" should mean just that, and the website not permit further logs except by a reviewer.

 

then what happens to a person who does not log for days, weeks or even years after finding it before it was archived?

Edited December 1, 2011 by baloo&bd

[+Ambrosia]

What's the consensus on logging archived caches.

I think "archived" should mean just that, and the website not permit further logs except by a reviewer.

There was a mystery cache in Seattle that was archived for years. During this time it had hundreds, if not a couple thousand, logs. The frog had no problem allowing these logs to stand.

[+bflentje]

Looks like the cache owner caught on to the fact that he looks silly having archived his caches for childish reasons. Though, he's still deleting logs while geocaching.com takes their time processing my complaint.

 

GCR2CG

Edited December 1, 2011 by bflentje

[+jellis]

I just need to appeal it to geocaching.com.

Correct. You need to email contact@ and they'll reinstate your log and slap the CO.

 

Yep.

Yup if he archives it and still left the caches to be found instead of picking them up, and you found and signed the logs then it would be no different then if it was active. GS should side on your behalf. They might contact the owner and ask him to pick up his geolitter.

[+ArcherDragoon]

I would log it...

[knowschad]

What's the consensus on logging archived caches.

I think "archived" should mean just that, and the website not permit further logs except by a reviewer.

 

Archived should mean that the cache owner has picked up their cache and logbook, so it would no longer be possible to sign the physical log. They have to leave archived caches loggable online, since not everybody logs their caches they day that they find them.

[+Hemorrhage]

What's the consensus on logging archived caches. I've read the forums over the years but want to hear it again.

 

Had a roadcruise planned three weeks in advance and a PQ was generated that contains a geocache in its active state. Days following PQ generation but a couple weeks before the trip, cache owner archives the cache, including ALL of his caches, because he decided he no longer can tolerate "TFTC" logs. The cache owner leaves his geo-trash in the woods. A cache that was in not so good shape and hardly maintained. Roadcruise underway, we find the (now archived) cache in the woods, sign the log not even realizing the cache was archived until logging online. We log as a find as I think most people would. Cache owner decides to delete our logs, indicating we are not allowed to log an archived cache. Pissing match starts to escalate when I realize I just need to appeal it to geocaching.com.

 

Did you put TFTC in your log?

[Mr.Yuck]

Looks like the cache owner caught on to the fact that he looks silly having archived his caches for childish reasons. Though, he's still deleting logs while geocaching.com takes their time processing my complaint.

 

GCR2CG

 

In other words, all his archive logs have been edited to a single "."? We'll just have to take your word for the fact he killed them all because of TFTC logs. In the meantime, he may feel free to right click and save my profile pic.

[+wimseyguy]

Looks like the CO got his paddle caught in his shorts zipper.

 

You found a cache in the woods that was listed on geocaching.com, you logged a find, it should stand. CO wants to take his ball and go home he should remove the ball from the woods.

[+The Jester]

What's the consensus on logging archived caches.

I think "archived" should mean just that, and the website not permit further logs except by a reviewer.

 

Archived should mean that the cache owner has picked up their cache and logbook, so it would no longer be possible to sign the physical log. They have to leave archived caches loggable online, since not everybody logs their caches they day that they find them.

I've had it happen that the cache was archived between the time I downloaded the cache (in the morning) and logged the find (afternoon) - I found it while active, but logged after it was archived.

[+Team Dennis]

Of course you are in the right in the scenario that you described. Archived or not you found a cache, signed the log and then logged it online. I would be shocked and disappointed if GS sided with the CO on this one.

[+PokerLuck]

First of all, I find it interesting that the cache owner wants his caches archived and doesn't want anyone logging them, but he's too lazy to go out and pick them up.

 

However, the real discussion here is about logging an archived cache. gc.com has always maintained that they are a web listing service. They do not own caches. When they archive a cache listing, all they are doing is changing its status in their database. They make no claim as to its status out in the real world. The cache owner still owns that cache and can do what they want with it. The only question is how gc.com will decide to treat a log entered after a cache has been archived. They've allowed it in the past.

 

Personally, I think it's fine. The geocacher found the cache, signed the log, and entered the log online. The fact that the cache was archived at the time doesn't change any of that.

[+lamoracke]

Logging known missing caches whether inactive or archived will just draw suspicion from people (especially those watching it) because all parties know there is no way that find can be verified, because duh, the cache and log are gone. Convenient if you are being false about it. However, unless you want to get into a calling folks you do not know a liar and all the fun from that, just let it go and folks will log their caches. If its your cache, well, then its up to you what you do on it.

 

Ape cache, yeah, I forgot to log that cache 13 months ago, its so easy to forget that one!!

[+bflentje]

Logging known missing caches whether inactive or archived will just draw suspicion from people (especially those watching it) because all parties know there is no way that find can be verified, because duh, the cache and log are gone. Convenient if you are being false about it. However, unless you want to get into a calling folks you do not know a liar and all the fun from that, just let it go and folks will log their caches. If its your cache, well, then its up to you what you do on it.

 

Ape cache, yeah, I forgot to log that cache 13 months ago, its so easy to forget that one!!

 

The fact that it wasn't "missing" is part of the problem. Cache left in the field. As far as I know, it is not cross listed. And even if it were, the find should still stand.

[Clan Riffster]

I find it interesting that there is even a debate on this issue. I mean, yes, this is the Groundspeak forums, where we will argue for days over the most minute points, but still... At its core, this is a high tech game of hide and seek. One person hides something, others go find it. That seems to describe exactly what bflente did. I can't imagine a scenario even remotely similar to that one in which I would not log a find.

[I!]

What's the consensus on logging archived caches.

I think "archived" should mean just that, and the website not permit further logs except by a reviewer.

then what happens to a person who does not log for days, weeks or even years after finding it before it was archived?

It's not clear to me that gc.com should always cater for such tardiness.

 

As a CO, when I remove a physical cache from play then I want to shut down the listing just as permanently. If I get any logs on my archived caches, I'll probably delete them.

[+larryc43230]

It's not clear to me that gc.com should always cater for such tardiness.

 

As a CO, when I remove a physical cache from play then I want to shut down the listing just as permanently. If I get any logs on my archived caches, I'll probably delete them.

If I legitimately find a cache before that cache is archived, then (for whatever reason) don't enter that log on-line until after the cache is archived, I have every right under the guidelines to keep that find. If the cache owner deletes my log, I will immediately appeal to Groundspeak, and I'll bet you very good money that Groundspeak will reinstate my find.

 

--Larry

Edited December 2, 2011 by larryc43230

[vagabond]

What's the consensus on logging archived caches.

I think "archived" should mean just that, and the website not permit further logs except by a reviewer.

 

I think that if the CO were responsible and went out and picked up the geo-junk, I'd lean towards your opinion. But when the dude leaves his crap in the woods? Fair game until it's picked up.

+1

[+bflentje]

What's the consensus on logging archived caches.

I think "archived" should mean just that, and the website not permit further logs except by a reviewer.

then what happens to a person who does not log for days, weeks or even years after finding it before it was archived?

It's not clear to me that gc.com should always cater for such tardiness.

 

As a CO, when I remove a physical cache from play then I want to shut down the listing just as permanently. If I get any logs on my archived caches, I'll probably delete them.

 

So, you're saying, tardy logs are not ok but being tardy in removing your trash from the woods is ok? Interesting.

[+baloo&bd]

It's not clear to me that gc.com should always cater for such tardiness.

 

As a CO, when I remove a physical cache from play then I want to shut down the listing just as permanently. If I get any logs on my archived caches, I'll probably delete them.

 

What is tardy? A day, a week, a month? I don't see any "catering? taking place here. Maybe some control issues, however no catering.

 

Caching is about finding caches. The online log is secondary. For many, it is justly about "when I get around to it".

 

A good analogy is one of my other hobbies, amateur radio. Many qualify for QSL cards (contact confirmation) or awards months, years or even decades before they get around to the paperwork. Sometimes long after the rare location is, for lack of a better term, archived. No one questions the time frame since it does not affect the quality of the contact (find).

[I!]

So, you're saying, tardy logs are not ok but being tardy in removing your trash from the woods is ok? Interesting.

Nope, that's a deductive leap too far. I'm not saying anything about trash removal from the woods.

[I!]

Caching is about finding caches. The online log is secondary. For many, it is justly about "when I get around to it".

I see caching as being about finding and hiding caches. My view of the hiding part is that it's up to me what to hide, where, when, and how to present it on the web site (all within reason of course); and it should be up to me when to retract all that from play, including the ability to log late.

 

The thing about QSL cards was interesting: I'd not read about those before.

[+Avanclan]

If there cache is still at the given coords then you have a right to claim the cache and log it as "found". Its up to the cache owner to remove the cache if they archive it for any reason. Until they do remove the cache I feel that it is still in play.

 

I had a case where I loaded my caches before setting out on holiday. Cache was found en-route to my final destination and only once I logged on to the geocaching.com found out that the owner had archived the cache between me leaving home and finding the cache.

[+DanOCan]

This whole thing smacks of a cache owner with issues.

 

It sounds like the caches were archived because of some sense of entitlement in terms of the quality of logs the cachers were getting. It also sounds like the CO has been embarrassed by the logging of Finds on these caches after they were Archived since it highlights how the geo-trash was not properly cleaned up.

 

I see nothing wrong with logging your legitimate Find on a cache even if that cache was Archived. I've certainly done it. In some cases I even emailed the CO beforehand and said "I'm going out to find such-and-such cache, do you want me to pick it up and bring it back for you?"

 

Never had a CO react like this one did -- I guess some people just shouldn't own caches.

[+hzoi]

I do get a kick out of the CO's last note:

 

Cache is archived. Guidelines for finding an active cache can be found here: (visit link)

 

I'm sort of tempted to post a note of my own:

 

Cache is archived. Guidelines for removing caches once they've been archived can be found here (visit link), and here (visit link), and here (visit link), and...

[+ngrrfan]

I do get a kick out of the CO's last note:

 

Cache is archived. Guidelines for finding an active cache can be found here: (visit link)

 

I'm sort of tempted to post a note of my own:

 

Cache is archived. Guidelines for removing caches once they've been archived can be found here (visit link), and here (visit link), and here (visit link), and...

I followed the first link, and I couldn't find any information about "finding" an active cache. There are a lot of search options but no information about actually finding a cache.

 

I agree that the CO also needs to read the guidelines about picking up his caches when he archives them. Seems to me he wants to push "rules" on others but not apply "rules" to himself.

[TorgtheViking]

Why has the cache not been removed after it was archived? Geotrash? If it's found 'archived or not", one should be able to log it. If not, why was the cache physically left to be found?