Do You Cheat?

January 7, 2003

Trying to determine how prevalent cheating is in the geocaching world. Please comment on whether you do any of the following, and why:

- When revisiting a previous find, you log it AGAIN as a find (not just post a note).

- You log caches that you haven't actually found.

- If you fail to find a cache, you DON'T post a "Couldn't Find" or you post a note blaming your failure on other factors.

- When creating a cache you post incorrect coordinates or some other misleading clues.

- You contact the cache owner for special help in finding the cache.

Why????

Please be honest.

It is my distinct impression that these practices are very common. Am I wrong?

Do you know of others that cheat?

[This message was edited by Bubba Louise on January 07, 2003 at 09:19 AM.]

5.9k · January 7, 2003

- no

- I log a couldn't find

- no

6.4k · January 7, 2003

NO!

NO WAY!

If I actually get to the spot and hunt for the cache, I log a DNF. If its a multi and I run out of time (dont search for final cache) I post a note

nope

after posting a DNF, but not for special help, just to verify the cache is still there.

Tae-Kwon-Leap is not a path to a door, but a road leading forever towards the horizon.

January 7, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by Criminal:
- no

- no

- I log a couldn't find

- no

- no

T&tb's numbers are only of concern to T&tb.

If we cheat, who are we cheating?

knowing that our numbers are real gives greater satisfaction.

"First to thine own self be true"

January 7, 2003

While I agree with you Trudy, I find extensive evidence that others don't. If you look at other people's Found list, you will find multiple listings of a single cache. Also, I have been told by experienced cachers that some people don't like to report DNFs. Help me understand why (how do they benefit from these behaviors).

[This message was edited by Bubba Louise on January 07, 2003 at 09:38 AM.]

1.1k · January 7, 2003

- no -

- one time ? -

- yes -

The only one you would be cheating is yourself so the numbers really do not matter.

As for the special help, only after not finding ONE cache several times. ( it was too simple and easy for me to grasp)

What about finding a cache and not retriving it and signing the logbook due to allergies to pain? But you post a note and go back and sign in as a find later, after the bees have died off?

But above all, it is just a game afterall, right?

TTFN, logscaler

1.6k · January 7, 2003

Never have logged multiple times and won't unless it's the nature of the cache.

Why log caches you haven't found. Makes no sense to me. If you were to do it, why not log them all?

I log a "Not Found" and email the owner. We rarely not find the cache unless it's not there or there's some other constraint, like time.

All of our coordinates are as close as we could get them at the time. I don't recall having anyone log our coordinates were significantly off. I'd never mislead. I may be a little obscure, but never mislead.

If we've exhausted what we feel is the search area and we aren't made to give up because of time considerations, we'll log a no-find and email the owner. It's rare that we'll give up on a cache and it's actually still there.

On this last point, we feel that we should be as least invasive as possible. Yeah, could find something by raking up all of the leaves in an area or making the area look like a grader had come through, but we try to leave the area the same as we found it. Some caches are hidden very well and are signifcantly off the coordinates that even a two hour search wouldn't turn it up. Plently of times the hint is useless. It's these cases we ask for additional help from the owner.

CR

9.1k · January 7, 2003

Like others, I answered "no, never" to all the questions except the last one. I have traded e-mails with cache owners, and helped people hunting my own caches, with hints after a not-found was logged. Within limits, I think this is OK, so long as an honest effort was made first before asking for help.

My theory is that regular forum posters are not a good sample for a survey on these questions. You learn the etiquette of caching by reading the forums, asking questions, and watching cheaters get bashed.

I try to follow the consensus views stated in the forums about what is acceptable. I also follow my own personal ethics, and since I am only competing against myself, I have no need to cheat. I am proud of my not-found logs, for example... some of them are really funny stories! The closest I've come to cheating is that I logged finds on two caches that I later adopted as owner - - I figure why not keep the finds, since I wasn't the owner at the time of the hunt, and I didn't know where the cache was hidden.

Here in my area, I have seen all of the "cheating" practices listed above, except for fake finds on a physical cache. In most cases I attribute the double finds, unlogged not-founds, finds on your own cache, etc., to ignorance rather than poor ethics.

x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x

If there's no accounting for stupidity, then why do I need to file a tax return?

January 7, 2003

>>My theory is that regular forum posters are not a good sample for a survey on these questions. You learn the etiquette of caching by reading the forums, asking questions, and watching cheaters get bashed.>>

So, are forum posters more or less ethically correct that the average cacher. From my review of cache pages and users, a large proportion have some serious ethical problems.

>>I try to follow the consensus views stated in the forums about what is acceptable.>>

>>...I attribute the double finds, unlogged not-founds, finds on your own cache, etc., to ignorance rather than poor ethics.>>

Come on, nearly everyone responding has claimed to be innocent, yet the real world of geocaching reflects the opposite. I would assume that the frequent posters are also frequent cachers. Your statement sugggests that these experienced folks have a corner on what is right or wrong. We ALL know that many of the behaviors I described are simply cheating. We don't need an EXPERT to tell us. Yet, I also find that some of the biggest cheaters are those hardcore cachers.

Perhaps, there is a link between the number of caches claimed and the likelihood of cheating. I mean there seems to be some drive in those people with massive numbers of found caches, maybe that drive pushes them to the point of unethical behavior.

3.1k · January 7, 2003

- No, but I will if it's moved and I have the owner's permission.

- No. I even log locationless finds and events without caches as logs.

- I've not posted a Not Found a few times, all on a series of very difficult caches; on those, a Found log generally entails three or four Not Founds. But I always email the owner with my misadventures. I've blamed some Not Founds on insufficient time and other such things, but I do that to indicate that I believe it's my fault that I didn't find it, not that the cache is missing. I only suggest the cache is missing if there is evidence to the point, never just because I can't find it.

- One of my clues turned out to be unintentionally misleading. But the people who have commented on it thought it was clever and liked it that way. Intentionally bad coords, never.

- I contacted the cache owner on my second search but never got a response. I found it later without my GPS. I recently contacted another hider; in that case, he had already gone to verify it once after I had logged a Not Found (it was out of place). My second try was a couple of months later. I used the clue and was all over the candidates with no luck, so I asked him for help. Turns out it was missing for real this time.

Mein Vater war ein Wandersmann, und ich hab' auch im Blut

9.1k · January 7, 2003

I'm enjoying this interesting thread.

First, I don't equate being a high-number cacher with being a frequent forum poster or reader. There are megacachers who rarely post here, but have impeccable ethics (BruceS), megacachers who do participate in the forums and have impeccable ethics (StayFloopy, BassoonPilot, Moun10Bike) and, probably, megacachers with questionable finds (I won't name names, even if I knew any). Conversely, there are frequent forum visitors who do not have a chance to go out caching every day, due to work, family, health or other reasons. Yet, their 25 finds are hard-earned and ethical.

Second, my observation about ignorance being the cause rather than cheating/poor ethics was only meant to apply to my fellow cachers here in Western PA. If I spotted anything that really bothered me, I would probably raise it with the geocacher privately, especially if it related to one of my caches. That has never happened here. Other areas of the country appear to be more "competitive" and therefore cheating might occur more frequently there. Sorry if I wasn't clear.

And yes, I do believe that, by and large, people who follow the forums regularly are more likely to follow the official site recommendations as well as the consensus views we develop in the forums. We spend time debating these things because we care about them. When we were new, we read everything we could absorb, so that we could better understand the game. Knowledge is power.

x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x

If there's no accounting for stupidity, then why do I need to file a tax return?

January 7, 2003

I agree with everyone, I can say no to all. I have also traded e-mail with cachers on helping each other out. Maybe my cache is missing (look at one of mine from 1/5/03, cacher said he could not find it and I went out and checked on it.) We do this for fun and there isn't any fun in cheating, and no I don't know anyone else who does.

January 7, 2003

This came directly from the user profile of one geocache hider:

"I don't believe in giving seekers the coordinates to the cache on the first take...but rather test your compass and pacing skills to find the treasure."

In the case of one particular cache placed by this person, the coordinates were initially deliberately wrong by approximately 80 feet and a clue stated the cache was place 12 feet above a drainage when it was actually only 6 feet. When the hider was called on this by another angry cacher, the coordinates were changed and the above statements were removed from the profile. The errant "12 foot" clue remained. The hider also deleted the post by the angry cacher.

In my book, the above statement would be perfectly acceptable if there was additional information to allow the use of compass and pacing. It is fine to make a cache as difficult as you wish, but it must be fair.

I think this may be the worst, but perhaps the least frequent, form of unethical behavior for geocachers.

January 7, 2003

I managed to get in touch with Markwell when I was having more-than-standard difficulties with "Hard as PI", but that was just because it was my 100th cache, I was more than 1000 miles from home, and I had no Internet access, maps, or anything else that could help.

(I thought this thread was going to be about reading hints. I do read hints when they become necessary, but I would never do any of the blatantly wrong suggestions listed at the top here.)

Oh, and I strongly encourage anyone hunting my two most difficult hides to be sure to have my e-mail address *and* (home+cell) phone number, since it is quite acceptable to call for help on mine... The help won't make it shorter, but it will give you a hand reaching the cache, should you need it. I can see of no reason to take what is supposed to be a fun, enjoyable, and perhaps excruciating cache hunt and turn it into a let down. I know just how much I can give away to help get someone through the pain without taking away the sense of supreme accomplishment, and I will go precisely that far. (Don't think F.P. will be easy, of course.)

January 7, 2003

If you don't like the sport don't play & why isn't your number for posting going up? It's staying at 5.

9.1k · January 7, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by Bubba Louise:
In the case of one particular cache placed by this person, the coordinates were initially deliberately wrong by approximately 80 feet and a clue stated the cache was place 12 feet above a drainage when it was actually only 6 feet. When the hider was called on this by another angry cacher, the coordinates were changed and the above statements were removed from the profile. The errant "12 foot" clue remained. The hider also deleted the post by the angry cacher.

I agree with you, this sucks.

Happened to me once here, when a person hiding their first cache intentionally made the coordinates inaccurate because he believed it would take an easy find and make it a bit more challenging. It took me three trips to that park to become the first finder, and the cache was 220 feet from the posted coordinates. I politely explained DA ROOLZ to the hider and he corrected the coordinates. His next cache hide was a true pleasure to hunt for, and he enjoys finding mine.

So, with some people, it is just ignorance. In the example you cite, it's attitude. I'm glad we don't have any of those geocachers in my neck of the woods.

x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x

If there's no accounting for stupidity, then why do I need to file a tax return?

January 7, 2003

Never said I didn't like the sport. I am simply interested in why someone that chooses such an individualized sport would behave in such an irrational manner.

As for the number of posts, I think you'll find that it does change, each time I post. Are you a little too interested in numbers??? Please try to stick to the topic.

January 7, 2003

Sure, I'm sorry. I'll ask permission next time.

January 7, 2003

We haven't encountered any cheaters, we HAVE enocountered a cache stealer/hostage taker.

My pet peeve is the irresponsive cache owner who has screwed up something, but doesn't respond to e-mails or fix the problem, making the cache impossible to solve unless you contact them....And/or who placed the cache on vacation and doesn't care if it is in a really dangerous/illegal spot.

Every sport has it's wanna-be bigshots and quiet winners and the superstar who make a splash. Not to mention the support players who make it possible. For every cheater/thief/screwup, there are kind, polite, responsible people who also play. I personally know about 10 of the good, and only OF one of the cheaters. If that is a statistic, then I like this game.

Don't let them get you down, if you worry about what THEY are doing, you will enjoy this ALOT less. On the other hand, if you go into every cache think positively that even without a find, you will enjoy the trip, you can't help but to have fun.

-Jennifer

Nothing is really work unless you would rather be doing something else. (JM Barrie)

20.7k · January 7, 2003

- Only on 'moving' caches and this cache.

- No.

- No. I always post my 'Couldn't Finds'.

- Never.

- I did ask A182pilot for an assist on this terrific cache. Itried it a number of times and through total fault of my own, I kept failing. He took pity on me and slid me a couple hints.

Whenever I feel blue, I start breathing again.

1.4k · January 7, 2003

1. Only if something about the cache has changed (moved, additional legs, etc) AND the cache page specifically says it's OK to log a second find

2. no

3. no

4. no

5. Only after at least one "Couldn't find" log, and usually three.

Why?

1. If the cache owner states that it's OK to re-log a "find" on a cache that has moved or otherwise changed then it's not "cheating."

2. What would be the point? The object of the game is to get out and have some fun, not to have the most "found it" logs.

3. I'm not that insecure

4. What would be the point?

5. Where does it say in the rulebook you can't ask for help?

Do I know of any "Cheaters?"

Very, very few. Many newbies make mistakes, but most don't do it on purpose. Once in a great while, I'll run across a cacher who intentionally breaks the rules, but not very often.

1k · January 7, 2003

Does anybody really think that anyone that cheats would post to this thread and admit it? I'd sooner bet, if they posted to the thread at all, they would not answer even one of the questions.

Some people are like Slinkies . . . not really good for anything, but you still can't help but smile when you see one tumble down the stairs.

January 7, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by brdad:
Does anybody really think that anyone that cheats would post to this thread and admit it? I'd sooner bet, if they posted to the thread at all, they would not answer even one of the questions.

Well, there have been nearly 10 people to view this thread for every 1 that posted a response. If you are correct and we (innappropriately) assume that those non-posters are guilty, the number of unethical geocachers is really bad.

I don't assume that there are really that many bad ones, I do think that self reflection is often a good thing for all of us.

Anyone have a suggestion to sample the population anonymously? If I post this thread as a poll, are the responders able to indicate their answers anonymously?

January 7, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by Bubba Louise:
Trying to determine how prevalent cheating is in the geocaching world. Please comment on whether you do any of the following, and why:

- When revisiting a previous find, you log it AGAIN as a find (not just post a note).

_

No but I will post a note if think it would benefit others. Have do so a vandalized cache where I recovered as much of the missing stuff as I could find. I then emailed the owner and asked them if they wanted me to mee them to give the stuff back to them. A day or so later, someone else posted a find on the cache and said that they restocked it and replaced it. I took the stuff back that I have recovered and replaced it in the cache and then posted a note on it on the cache page.

- You log caches that you haven't actually found.

No, why would you do this?

- If you fail to find a cache, you DON'T post a "Couldn't Find" or you post a note blaming your failure on other factors.

I post a could not find. If go back at a later date and find it, I'll post it as a found.

- When creating a cache you post incorrect coordinates or some other misleading clues.

Nope, course I haven't placed any yet either.

- You contact the cache owner for special help in finding the cache.

Nope, but I have contacted a cache owner, see above.

Why????

Please be honest.

It is my distinct impression that these practices are very common. Am I wrong?

Dunno if you are wrong or not. I'm personally not all that interested in others folks logging habits. I'm in it strictly for my own enjoyment and love the hunt and the find. The numbers of finds mean nothing to me.

BTW, I met the number one and number two geocachers this past weekend. A couple fine individuals that have no reason whatsoever to "pad their scores" and I would not hesitate to say they don't 'cheat'.

Do you know of others that cheat?

Nope.

[This message was edited by Bubba Louise on January 07, 2003 at 09:19 AM.]

Gsdvr

Huntsville

January 7, 2003

Guess I shoulda answered the questions...

1- Yes, when the cache was set up in such a way it was allowed. Otherwise NO!

2-NO!

3-NO!

4-NO!

5-YES! when the previous searchers noted in their logs that they had had to contact the owner to get the correct formula. He still hasn't fixed this for the cache.

-Jennifer

Nothing is really work unless you would rather be doing something else. (JM Barrie)

January 7, 2003

- When revisiting a previous find, you log it AGAIN as a find (not just post a note).

No, unless the hider has significantly changed the cache to a new hiding spot.

- You log caches that you haven't actually found.

All the time. I log them as Not Founds. I'm semifamous for doing that.

- If you fail to find a cache, you DON'T post a "Couldn't Find" or you post a note blaming your failure on other factors.

Yeah, I do this sometimes. I have so many NFs, that I have my own strict guidelines about what counts.

- When creating a cache you post incorrect coordinates or some other misleading clues.

I do this all the time. In fact, I've done it on my most recent cache Sounds Good.

- You contact the cache owner for special help in finding the cache.

I've done this a couple of times before, but more often the cache owner contacts me after I've logged a series of NFs.

You didn't mention logging finds on a cache that you hid (I don't do that) or logging finds on a cache that your friend hid while you were along (I don't do that) or logging finds when you see the box but don't open it because there are too many people in the area (I don't do that) or logging finds on caches that are missing that have been converted to virtuals yet have no verification questions (hmm, I do that, but don't feel good about it, and I now send the hiders suggestions on good verification questions).

Is cheating prevalent? No.

Are people playing by different rules than I use? Yes, but I'm okay with that. I don't hunt and log locationless caches, but that's my choice.

[This message was edited by kablooey on January 07, 2003 at 06:20 PM.]

January 7, 2003

When in doubt, look about. Better to cheat, then to repeat!

SR and dboggny.

January 8, 2003

It occured to me that the liar frequently accuses others of lying, the philanderer points to others indiscressions and the cheater seems to find fault with the way others play the game.

We don't see many cheaters around here, how is it that you are seeing so many Bubba Louise? And, did I miss your answers to your questions?

tb

[This message was edited by Trudy & The Beast on January 08, 2003 at 04:48 PM.]

January 8, 2003

1. YES (of course my second find is done blindfolded)

2. YES (only if I've read enough logs to feel like I've already been there)

3. NO (If I can't find it I do my best to belittle the cache hider with multiple snide remarks)

4.YES (GPSr are far too accurate your gonna need to work for my caches)

5.YES ( I nag the cache owner until he goes and checks on his cache and I wait close to his home and follow him to the cache)

Mark

January 8, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by MarkRobb:
1. YES (of course my second find is done blindfolded)

2. YES (only if I've read enough logs to feel like I've already been there)

3. NO (If I can't find it I do my best to belittle the cache hider with multiple snide remarks)

4.YES (GPSr are far too accurate your gonna need to work for my caches)

5.YES ( I nag the cache owner until he goes and checks on his cache and I wait close to his home and follow him to the cache)

Mark

January 8, 2003

Thought this was about reading hints also!

Almost didn't post, but, didn't want to get grouped with the "didn't post/much be a cheater" crowd. I don't post to everything I read.

-only if location moved and owner says it's ok

-never

-sometimes, sometimes not

-no

-not yet, but would

January 8, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by Trudy & The Beast:
It occured to me that the liar frequently accuses others of lying, the philanderer points to others indiscressions and the cheater seems to find fault with the way others play the game.

I do have direct evidence of a number of people in my area of behaving in ways that I would consider cheating. I don't consider this game a competition, however, I believe that others do. It seems nonsensical to me that people involved in an activity that involves only personal reward would resort to measures that are likely to work directly against that personal reward. I have not sought out this evidence. The information is obvious when you look at certain cache pages.

While I considered providing answers to my own questions, I thought that it might skew the answers of the repondents. I undertook this entire discussion for my personal edification. If others choose to draw some benefit, great. If some take offense, I will not feel guilty for that.

I never accused you or anyone else here of cheating. In light of your own statement, I don't think you can say the same.

1.4k · January 8, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by Bubba Louise:
I never accused you or anyone else here of cheating. In light of your own statement, I don't think you can say the same.

Perhaps not directly, but you have labeled a couple of common practices as "cheating." By labeling the practices as "cheating," you appear to be implying that those who do them are "cheaters."

January 8, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by Bubba Louise:

I never accused you or anyone else here of cheating. In light of your own statement, I don't think you can say the same.

My remarks are a reflection of what is taught in Psychology 101.

I didn't accuse you of anything. That is the way you took my questions. Are you perhaps a bit sensitive for some reason?

You still havn't given us your answers to the questions. We all have.

January 8, 2003

A few statements made in this thread stuck out in my mind...

Who said:

“So, are forum posters more or less ethically correct that the average cacher. From my review of cache pages and users, a large proportion have some serious ethical problems.”

Who said:

“Come on, nearly everyone responding has claimed to be innocent, yet the real world of geocaching reflects the opposite. I would assume that the frequent posters are also frequent cachers. Your statement sugggests that these experienced folks have a corner on what is right or wrong. We ALL know that many of the behaviors I described are simply cheating. We don't need an EXPERT to tell us. Yet, I also find that some of the biggest cheaters are those hardcore cachers.”

Who said:

“Perhaps, there is a link between the number of caches claimed and the likelihood of cheating. I mean there seems to be some drive in those people with massive numbers of found caches, maybe that drive pushes them to the point of unethical behavior.”

Who said:

I do have direct evidence of a number of people in my area of behaving in ways that I would consider cheating.”

And, Who said:

“I never accused you or anyone else here of cheating.”

Would you care to rethink your position, Bubba?

January 8, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by Bubba Louise:

I never accused you or anyone else here of cheating. In light of your own statement, I don't think you can say the same.

You most certainly did, in your very first post in this thread. Might want to go back and take a look at it again.

Mike

Gsdvr

Huntsville

1.4k · January 9, 2003

I don't do any of this stuff, except if I've put in many, many hours looking for a cache I might use my phone a friend lifeline for some help. I've only gotten help on one cache so far and it was something I spent 14 hours looking for before asking I felt justified Turned out you had to have knowledge of some of the land features in the area to really understand the clue. Being new to the area - I would have never discovered it on my own.

--------

trippy1976 - Team KKF2A

Saving geocaches - one golf ball at a time.

January 9, 2003

No

NO

Yes, Mostly I'm lazy, I only post a no find if I don't eventually find it and don't see myself going back to find it at some point or if I really think it isn't there anymore.

No

Yes, once on one that was particularly challenging. We went back three times!

elifish

1.4k · January 9, 2003

No

Only in special cases - for instance a cache we are doing at the moment involves finding 4 caches then plotting them on a map. Drawing a line between the caches produces an X that marks the spot. We mailed the owner to check we were near enough in our calcs to find it. Mainly to save travelling long distances to end up in completly the wrong place.

Not sure why people bither cheating as if you want to increase your numbers - why not do a load of locationless caches.

I have trouble understanding why people logged trashed caches as finds an example. What's that all about?

Bear rescues a speciality!

London & UK Geocaching Resources: http://www.sheps.clara.net

January 9, 2003

- When revisiting a previous find, you log it AGAIN as a find (not just post a note).

Nope.

- You log caches that you haven't actually found.

If you don't sign the log book, you haven't found the cache. So, nope.

- If you fail to find a cache, you DON'T post a "Couldn't Find" or you post a note blaming your failure on other factors.

Most times I am able to find the caches I seek (so far!). There have been a couple occasions when, for whatever reason, I couldn't find the cache. If I thought the cache was missing I logged a not found to notify the owner and other cachers. If I suspected I just wasn't finding it, AND I planned to come back the next day, I did not log a not found. If I gave up on the cache (only one so far) I logged a not found as soon as I could. On those occasions when I've had to go back to find a cache, I've said as much in my logs. As I play the game, NF are to alert other folks as to the status of the cache: get enough of them together and it's time for the owner to go out and see what's happened to the cache.

- When creating a cache you post incorrect coordinates or some other misleading clues.

Haven't set an official cache yet but that seems pretty lame. If you can't think of any other way to make your cache difficult to find maybe you should just lie down for a while and contemplate your place in life.

- You contact the cache owner for special help in finding the cache.

Yep. There was a cache close to where I work and I looked and looked for that sucker with no success. I tried three times to find it before I asked for help. When their response wasn't helpful I even contacted other cachers who'd found the cache. I didn't want them to tell me exactly where it was, just to point me in the right direction, as it were.

Why????

Please be honest.

Because aside from the used golf balls and chewed McToys, there are no prizes in this game. So play whatever way makes it fun for you without spoiling it for others.

5.7k · January 9, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by Bubba Louise:
Trying to determine how prevalent cheating is in the geocaching world.

Why are you worrying about such nonsense. Get out there and find some more caches! This site is what you make of it. No need to waste any time wondering what other people are doing. There are caches a plenty waiting for you.

--Marky

"All of us get lost in the darkness, dreamers learn to steer with a backlit GPSr"

January 10, 2003

There's an old saying in the auto racing world...

If ya aint cheatin' ya aint tryin'.

Or It's only cheatin' if yer the only one doin' it.

Honestly I'm not in this game for the numbers. I'm doing it becasue I enjoy it. I've always liked hiking to interesting places. I've never really had an interest in ball sports for recreation. Geocaching is something I can do to impress ond satisfy one person and one person only.. ME!

So..

No I don't cheat by double logging, I don't ask for help unless I am REALLY stumped. I don't log a no find because it clutters up my list I usually add the cache to my watch list if there are consecutive others that can't find it I don't feel so bad. I don't post bad clues to throw off other seekers, although I have in the past posted some cryptic clues on my entries that the cache owner would understand and then know I've actually been there.

Although I am usually a TNLN type of guy, unless there is no logbook, pen or pencil and I don't have one on hand I always leave a scribble in the log. If there is no log or pencil handy I usually leave an item to prove I was there or email the owner and explain which also applies to codeword caches. Sometimes I leave without taking. (Because I'm sure there are allot that take without leaving!)

And I'm really begining to dislike locationless and virtuals they were fun at first but they are getting old fast. Recently I've only logged them if they are of personal, educational or historical value.

Bottom line is I'm not in this game to impress anyone.. If I did cheat I'd be the only one cheated. I'm not too concerned about the numbers.

Randall J. Berry

davros@mdgps.net

www.mdgps.net

January 24, 2003

NO

We didn't blame other factors. We missed the tide, and said so.

NO

1.8k · January 24, 2003

1. Yes, I've logged the same cache as two 'finds', when it took me more than two hours to find it after it had been moved less than 50 feet from its original position.

2. I don't remember ever logging a cache that I haven't actually found. There may be one instance where I found a ransacked cache's location, and the owner said to log the find, but I think I may be remembering someone else's log. I wouldn't have a problem with someone else doing that, if they were in the right spot, and the cache owner said it was OK. I don't know if I would.

2a. I have logged finds at event caches, including an event cache that I organized. Maybe it's lame to log your own event cache as a find. I participated as much as anyone did in the event, though, so I don't feel bad about it. Maybe someone could convince me otherwise.

3. Of my 333 logs in the system, 31 are 'not founds'. My favorite log entries are those 31 not founds, because there's almost always an interesting story behind them. With rare exception, if I hit 'Go to waypoint' on my GPS, and I don't find the cache the same day, it'll get a 'not found' log.

4. Of the 11 caches I've hidden, I've tried to be accurate with the coordinates on all of them. Only one of them, a puzzle/multi cache, lists coordinates that aren't exactly at a waypoint, but that's the point of that cache.

5. Most of the time, when I post a 'not found' log, the cache owner is the one to contact me and offer help. I'll accept the help, if offered, but most of the time I'm content to get help from public sources only -- the hints, others log entries, aerial photographs, etc.

6. And the question you didn't ask: How soon into the hunt do you decrypt the hint? For me, it depends. I hunt many of my caches on my lunch hour, which generally gives me 20 minutes to get there, 20 minutes to hunt, and 20 minutes to get back. I'll generally decrypt the hint when I'm out of time.

If I'm not on a time crunch, I'll usually look at the hint after 30-45 minutes of searching.

Then again, on the 37-caches-in-a-day event cache I mentioned above, it seemed like everybody was looking at the hints, so about 10 caches into the day, I started doing the same.

"I'm sure she would have been thrilled to find so much pooh in a little metal box."

Do You Cheat?

Recommended Posts

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment