COs not maintaining their caches

[+dfx]

several weeks ago we went for a very cool looking cache. it hadn't been found in almost a year and promised to be a great adventure and an awesome find. we were really looking forward to it.

 

unfortunately we ended up with a DNF. we came prepared and knew what we were looking for, and once back home we compared what we've seen with the pictures posted on the cache listing. we were almost certain the cache was missing, but you can never be sure right? so we posted DNFs and left it at that. nevertheless we still had enjoyed the hunt of course.

 

after that nothing happened. no new logs or anything. after all, it was an exceptional cache, in every aspect. until recently, another cacher went for it and also DNF'd it, confirming what we already had found: the cache almost certainly was missing. they posted NM because of that.

 

coincidentally, just recently we also went for another cache of the same CO, not knowing that at the time. it was nothing spectacular, just happened to be around, but we also ended up DNFing it. there was one DNF before us, from over a month ago, pretty much confirming that the cache definitely was missing. the last found log was from 2 months ago. it should've been an easy park & grab.

 

nothing out of the (somewhat) ordinary so far really, but at that point i got curious. i checked the CO's profile, he's highly active and has almost 200 hides. a lot of them archived though, and when looking at their caches older than 1.5 years, most of them are archived. looking at the cache listings, the story repeats itself: caches go missing, people DNF them over and over again, until months later the CO suddenly archived them. even when it was only the log reported as being wet... no disable log, no maintenance, just suddenly archive out of the blue. the archive logs invariably said either just "archive" or had similar empty content, or had comments along the lines of "can't be bothered to replace a micro", "not worth replacing" or "can't be bothered to go out there and check on it". verbatim, not rephrased.

 

at this point i decided to speed up the process and posted NA on the two caches we DNF'd. i thought maybe he doesn't pay attention to the regular emails from gc.com or doesn't care, but only 15 minutes (!) after that i got a message from the CO telling me that "my comments are not appreciated" (and nothing else). well no kidding.

 

well anyway, that's the story, my desire to vent has been satisfied. i hope this kind of "drop and forget" cache placement strategy is an exception.

[+narcissa]

It's always a shame when a cache owner reacts like that, but you acted appropriately given the circumstances.

[+Walts Hunting]

You did the right thing. I know some people will advise to contact the owner and advise him but if there are a string of DNF's he/she already knows so I go straight to the NA log.

[4wheelin_fool]

at this point i decided to speed up the process and posted NA on the two caches we DNF'd. i thought maybe he doesn't pay attention to the regular emails from gc.com or doesn't care, but only 15 minutes (!) after that i got a message from the CO telling me that "my comments are not appreciated" (and nothing else). well no kidding.

 

The CO may not appreciate the comments, but other would-be-seekers will.

 

I suspect there is more to the story (on his end) about possibly why the caches are missing, however there is nothing you can do at this point but move on.

[Trader Rick & Rosie]

 

there was one DNF before us, from over a month ago, pretty much confirming that the cache definitely was missing.

 

 

Pretty much confiming nothing.

[+Chokecherry]

DNF doesn't confirm it's missing. We have many caches here with many DNF but they're still out there (the owners will occasionally go check).

 

Anyhow, we also have a couple very active people here that have difficulty maintaining their caches that I just ignore now. One lives pretty far away. The other one has peppered the world with non-waterproof micros that they refuse to maintain same with their multis (stage goes missing? oh well). At this point many of us end up ignoring those caches. It only sucks because they have managed to dump so many of them that it leaves little space in that community to leave better ones.

[hoosier guy]

I guess I ave been lucky so far. Everytime I have emailed a CO about a problem they have been nice and appreciated the info.

[+Lovejoy and Tinker]

there was one DNF before us, from over a month ago, pretty much confirming that the cache definitely was missing. the last found log was from 2 months ago. it should've been an easy park & grab.

 

This always confuses me, and I see it on people's logs often, words along the lines of:

"Owner might want to check this out as it hasn't been found for 3 months"

 

What does that mean?

 

If there were 10 DNF's in those 3 months then the fact it is missing might be a fair conclusion.

But I have seen it (and one popped up on the notification email this morning) where someone will post a Needs Maintenance log after just 2 DNF's and state "Not found in 3 months".

 

What has the timescale got to do with anything?

The cache doesn't go missing just because a certain amount of time passes without someone going out to look for it. Does it?

[+lachupa]

wonder how many unreported DNFs there were on those

 

As a new cacher I appreciate people reporting missing caches because I'm already clueless without a wild goose chase on top of it.

[+t4e]

 

there was one DNF before us, from over a month ago, pretty much confirming that the cache definitely was missing.

 

 

Pretty much confiming nothing.

 

DNF doesn't confirm it's missing. We have many caches here with many DNF but they're still out there (the owners will occasionally go check).

 

 

maybe in other cases a DNF or two or three doesn't confirm anything

in this case it does, one of the first finders(only two finds in after publication and none in the last year) posted a picture/spoiler of the hide and there was nothing there anymore, the last cacher that went there even had a diver go check with no luck

the cache was immersed in water hanging from a big chain

second cache, the DNF before us, from a month ago, is extensive and explains how they chatted with the business owner and they told them that they had to put a fence up and in the construction they found some things that they tossed without checking

the previous logs and pictures, as well as the hint clearly indicate that there was no fence there before

 

from the DNF log one month ago

 

Anyways, we having a feeling that during the cleanup of the area for the new fence, the cache may have been disposed of in the process. Property owner agrees as she admitted there were a few odd things she found that she didn't even look at, just got rid of. I think cache owner should check on this one and replace if necessary...

 

so yes, in this case there is clear indication that the cache is missing, meanwhile the CO refuses to even make a comment

Edited August 3, 2010 by t4e

[GOF's Sock Puppet]

OK, you posted a NA. But what were the comments? Did you say "I am sorry to have to say it but I am reasonably sure this cache is missing because the blah blah isn't blah blah blah." or did you say "Hey CO. Get your lazy butt off the couch and go check on your caches. This one has been missing for months." I'm just saying, we don't know what your comments were so we have no idea if they should upset the CO or not.

[+Lovejoy and Tinker]

 

maybe in other cases a DNF or two or three doesn't confirm anything

in this case it does, one of the first finders(only two finds in after publication and none in the last year) posted a picture/spoiler of the hide and there was nothing there anymore, the last cacher that went there even had a diver go check with no luck

the cache was immersed in water hanging from a big chain

second cache, the DNF before us, from a month ago, is extensive and explains how they chatted with the business owner and they told them that they had to put a fence up and in the construction they found some things that they tossed without checking

the previous logs and pictures, as well as the hint clearly indicate that there was no fence there before

 

from the DNF log one month ago

 

Anyways, we having a feeling that during the cleanup of the area for the new fence, the cache may have been disposed of in the process. Property owner agrees as she admitted there were a few odd things she found that she didn't even look at, just got rid of. I think cache owner should check on this one and replace if necessary...

 

so yes, in this case there is clear indication that the cache is missing, meanwhile the CO refuses to even make a comment

 

Ah, I can see how a string of DNF's and then a long gap may be grounds to suspect it's missing and report a cache as needing maintenance. That's logical. Because if there is a string of DNF's (2 is our trigger, but it depends on the difficulty of the cache I guess) then the CO should be out there checking it.

 

In that instance I can see how a time period may be relevant as like someone else said, others may be being put off by a string of DNFs and not even try and find it.

 

The one I saw this morning was:

Last Found April 24th

2 DNF logs dated June 27th (by people with identical find counts, so suspect they were together)

1 DNF and reported as NM on August 2nd with a note it had not been found for 3 months.

 

Well it was there on April 24th, then no logs at all until June 27th, so people were not being put off during June.

Then one group couldn't find it, then it's reported for NM.

 

I do think people use the 'not found since...' as a reason for assuming it's gone and them not being able to find it and demanding someone goes out to check it.

 

BUT, I agree with the OP completely, there are many situations where there is clear evidence for suspiscion that the cache is gone and the CO does not respond. And that's bad.

[+FireRef]

I recently started taking newbies out finding caches - I post my adventures as notes if I have already found the cache, so a few times I have come across ones I know where they are, and they're not there. In some cases, the owner hasn't checked on it for a long time, or in one case, actually admitted on the cache page that they knew it was missing (but didn't disable it).

 

I have taken to posting "NA" logs, with a simple statement that I don't feel it necessarily needs archived, but am using the log to bring it to a reviewer's attention because it is missing, and ask that it be disabled since the owner hasn't done so. Any of these I've done that for have a string of DNF's over many months with a cacher who hasn't logged into the website for a long time (months), or I am sure it is gone because I found it before.

 

I did have one hider in the Western NY area who was like the one the OP described. I went for a night cache years ago in a state park, and the coords were completely off (like hundreds of feet) and no where near the starting point from any angle, nor did they help you find the starting point. It was a night cache. The hint in it no longer worked (a glow in the dark skeleton that I could only find during daylight, and when I went back at night, didn't glow anymore), and about half the markers were missing. We did find the cache, but only by brute force, during the day. When I posted about the current problems with the cache, my log was unceremoniously deleted. Same with any other logs by me for that CO's caches. They weren't interested in finding out problems or fixing them, just putting a bunch of caches with poor coords out. So I took to posting TFTC and stopped hunting for most by them. Some people are like that.

[+dfx]

OK, you posted a NA. But what were the comments? Did you say "I am sorry to have to say it but I am reasonably sure this cache is missing because the blah blah isn't blah blah blah." or did you say "Hey CO. Get your lazy butt off the couch and go check on your caches. This one has been missing for months." I'm just saying, we don't know what your comments were so we have no idea if they should upset the CO or not.

it was something in between. tbh i was quite blunt in my logs and had no intentions on going easy on him (but also wasn't insulting) so i can see why he got upset about it. i'm not saying that he shouldn't have been, but i found it very ironic that he was able to send the message that quickly, but at the same time seems completely unable to even disable the cache listings when the caches are obviously missing, let alone actually checking on them. they're still not disabled btw.

Edited August 3, 2010 by dfx

[+GeoGeeBee]

 

Anyhow, we also have a couple very active people here that have difficulty maintaining their caches that I just ignore now. One lives pretty far away. The other one has peppered the world with non-waterproof micros that they refuse to maintain same with their multis (stage goes missing? oh well). At this point many of us end up ignoring those caches. It only sucks because they have managed to dump so many of them that it leaves little space in that community to leave better ones.

 

By ignoring them, you are contributing to the problem. Post the NA log!

[+Ecylram]

 

If there were 10 DNF's in those 3 months then the fact it is missing might be a fair conclusion.

But I have seen it (and one popped up on the notification email this morning) where someone will post a Needs Maintenance log after just 2 DNF's and state "Not found in 3 months".

 

What has the timescale got to do with anything?

The cache doesn't go missing just because a certain amount of time passes without someone going out to look for it. Does it?

 

How about this scenario...

 

You have an urban cache with a 1 or 1.5 difficulty that has regular finds every few days with no DNF's posted, even through winter. Then there are no finds for three months (spring & early summer) with 2 DNF's by experienced cachers. The cache is probably missing.

[+J the Goat]

I actually felt kind of bad about a situation that transpired this last week. Forman had a cache hidden in Howarth Park in Santa Rosa that was a 3.5 diff that had a string of 8 or 9 dnfs. One was mine. I was planning a trip down there, and sent him a message through the site asking if he would at least check to see if it was there, as I cache with the kids and dont mind DNFs but don't want to be hunting for a cache that's not there. The next morning he replied saying that with that many DNFs, it had to be gone and he didn't have time to maintain all his caches. Archived. It may still be there, I don't know. Not my fault, but I still feel kind of like it is.

[+Dragery]

We have a CO like that down here, he has almost 700 caches placed (not a power trail).... The difficulty in maintaining all those has gotta be tough. There are several that legitimately go missing, previous finders are unable to find them, and he refuses to maintain or archive them. Yet a geocaching buddy of mine started going around and NM/NA geocaches of his that were 100% certain missing (previous finders going along and such) And all he got from the CO was an email saying sarcastic drivel like "What are you the geocache police or something?" and basically chewing him out for trying to clean up the area.

 

This CO has a monopoly on some very nice geocaching real estate, like bike paths, local hills and such. And it would be nice to get people up to see these places, and be rewarded with caches that were actually there.

[+roziecakes]

DNF doesn't confirm it's missing. We have many caches here with many DNF but they're still out there (the owners will occasionally go check).

 

Anyhow, we also have a couple very active people here that have difficulty maintaining their caches that I just ignore now. One lives pretty far away. The other one has peppered the world with non-waterproof micros that they refuse to maintain same with their multis (stage goes missing? oh well). At this point many of us end up ignoring those caches. It only sucks because they have managed to dump so many of them that it leaves little space in that community to leave better ones.

 

Several DNFs may not confirm the cache is missing, but I as a cache owner would be prompted to go check on that cache to make sure, and I would probably post an owner maintenance log or a note saying that I checked on it and it was still in place. I think that's the main problem in dfx's case. The cache owner seemingly did not care about his caches or check on them; but when dfx sent a NA log he got defensive! I find that to be unfortunate.

 

If someone doesn't have time to maintain their caches, they shouldn't place them, or they should indeed be archived.

[+t4e]

yes Dragery, that's exactly the point

 

while i appreciate the fact that if people didn't put out caches we wouldn't have what to hunt for, the thing is if they don't bother to maintain them they are more of a nuisance rather than keeping the game going

its very easy to go toss caches out there, the hard work is maintaining them

 

i don't have that many caches out there, but if i see a couple of DNF's, sometimes even after one depending on the details in the log, i don't run out the door to check on it but at least i post a note that i will check on it, thus acknowledging that there is a potential problem

 

geocaching is a hobby and i know that is not a priority and other things take precedence over checking on a cache, but claiming that you do not have 1 minute to post a note to acknowledge the fact that the cache needs to be checked on, especially when you're out caching every day and logging your finds online, is what ticks me off

[+Chokecherry]

 

Anyhow, we also have a couple very active people here that have difficulty maintaining their caches that I just ignore now. One lives pretty far away. The other one has peppered the world with non-waterproof micros that they refuse to maintain same with their multis (stage goes missing? oh well). At this point many of us end up ignoring those caches. It only sucks because they have managed to dump so many of them that it leaves little space in that community to leave better ones.

 

By ignoring them, you are contributing to the problem. Post the NA log!

 

I'll clarify. We ignore the caches placed by the cache owner. Of the peopel I've talked to about this situation to a T we have all tossed up a NM log on the various caches we've looked for. So now I simply don't look for caches placed by that owner. Or try not to. Once in awhile one slips through due how they have spread their un-maintained caches everywhere. I'm not going to go out and log a NM on every one of their caches if I haven't looked for it. I'll do it on the ones I've looked for which isn't many. The others are the same way. We just simply don't look for them anymore.

[GOF's Sock Puppet]

OK, you posted a NA. But what were the comments? Did you say "I am sorry to have to say it but I am reasonably sure this cache is missing because the blah blah isn't blah blah blah." or did you say "Hey CO. Get your lazy butt off the couch and go check on your caches. This one has been missing for months." I'm just saying, we don't know what your comments were so we have no idea if they should upset the CO or not.

it was something in between. tbh i was quite blunt in my logs and had no intentions on going easy on him (but also wasn't insulting) so i can see why he got upset about it. i'm not saying that he shouldn't have been, but i found it very ironic that he was able to send the message that quickly, but at the same time seems completely unable to even disable the cache listings when the caches are obviously missing, let alone actually checking on them. they're still not disabled btw.

 

OK. Now I'm just confused. (You would think I'd be used to it) What is it you wanted from this thread?

[+GeoGeeBee]

 

Anyhow, we also have a couple very active people here that have difficulty maintaining their caches that I just ignore now. One lives pretty far away. The other one has peppered the world with non-waterproof micros that they refuse to maintain same with their multis (stage goes missing? oh well). At this point many of us end up ignoring those caches. It only sucks because they have managed to dump so many of them that it leaves little space in that community to leave better ones.

 

By ignoring them, you are contributing to the problem. Post the NA log!

 

I'll clarify. We ignore the caches placed by the cache owner. Of the peopel I've talked to about this situation to a T we have all tossed up a NM log on the various caches we've looked for. So now I simply don't look for caches placed by that owner. Or try not to. Once in awhile one slips through due how they have spread their un-maintained caches everywhere. I'm not going to go out and log a NM on every one of their caches if I haven't looked for it. I'll do it on the ones I've looked for which isn't many. The others are the same way. We just simply don't look for them anymore.

 

And I will reiterate: by doing this, you are contributing to the problem. Posting a NM log on a cache when you know the owner is one of those who ignores NM logs is a waste of time, although perhaps it's polite to post one of those first. But after the NM has been ignored for a while, go ahead and post the NA. That will either get the CO's attention and the cache will be fixed, or it will be archived and open up the area for more responsible cachers.

[+Chokecherry]

I frankly don't have time to baby sit all the caches I have visited. I post the NM and go on about my caching business. End of story. I'm not going to jump the gun and post a NA just because it's that owner.

 

And I'm not going to go back and check and see if the cache was maintained in real life or on the page. I find that to be a monumental waste of time.

 

If my lack of desire to keep track of that makes me a bad geocacher then so be it.

[I!]

Posting a NM log on a cache when you know the owner is one of those who ignores NM logs is a waste of time, although perhaps it's polite to post one of those first. But after the NM has been ignored for a while, go ahead and post the NA. That will either get the CO's attention and the cache will be fixed, or it will be archived and open up the area for more responsible cachers.

I think NM is fine if yours is the first such log; maybe NA otherwise.

 

I found a wrecked cache on a circular walk. I pieced it back together as best I could and left a helpful description of the problem in a NM log. A couple of other people have since done the same circular and, encountering the still unhealthy cache have posted their own NMs. Would it have made any difference, apart from offending the cache owner, if I'd gone for NA immediately? I doubt it. Should the subsequent cachers have NA'd instead of NM'd? Probably, yes, IMO.

[+northernpenguin]

In Ontario, I'm pretty sure NM logs get caught when the reviewer's sweep every few months, so you should not have to follow up on a NM log. That's the reviewer's job. Though I'll admit when I DNF or NM a cache it goes on my watchlist so I can see what transpires after.

 

If you happen to come up on a cache that absolutely needs to be addressed now ie container destroyed, land owner is ticked off, you want to poach the spot then by all means hit it with a SBA.

 

You don't have to come back three months later and hit SBA just because you posted a NM that got ignored. Chances are three months after your NM log there's a reviewer note reminding the CO to clear the NM attribute after verifying the cache is no longer needing maintenance.

[+dbrierley]

There do seem to be some geocachers that have lost interest in maintaining their caches and prefer to find other caches, instead. Most of them just ignore the log entries, though.

[AZcachemeister]

Sadly there are COs who have little interest in maintenance.

They may have a cache in need of maintenance, but they are out on the other side of town attempting FTFs.

Once the DNFs pile up high enough, they will archive...and hide five more the same day.

[+peanutlikesbeans]

It's always a shame when a cache owner reacts like that, but you acted appropriately given the circumstances.

 

I was looking for a Cache the other day (One that has a very special meaning to my Wife and I) I just couldn't find it. I found out from a couple of "GeoFriends" that this Cache has been gone for at least a couple of months.

 

I marked it as Did Not Find a while later the Cache Owner just deleted my DNF report from the listing.

I since found from a coupe of friends that he has in the past, deleted other posters DNF's as well.

It is a shame, because this person always does some amazing research about the location of the hide, so I know he puts a lot of effort into his hides.

I wrote a very friendly message to the CO to tell him, I would be glad to replace it. He doesn't seem interested in repairing/replacing them.I'm still waiting for a replay. I really don't mind doing a repair. It kind of depends on how he replies. If he refuses, I will go ahead and replace it anyway. If he is upset about this or refuses to maintain... and keeps deleting all the DNFs. What should I do.

[+jellis]

Either send them a message asking why or contact your local reviewer and see if they will step in and find out what's going on. If that doesn't work you can do what others will suggest. INGNORE button.

[+BlueDeuce]

It's always a shame when a cache owner reacts like that, but you acted appropriately given the circumstances.

 

I was looking for a Cache the other day (One that has a very special meaning to my Wife and I) I just couldn't find it. I found out from a couple of "GeoFriends" that this Cache has been gone for at least a couple of months.

 

I marked it as Did Not Find a while later the Cache Owner just deleted my DNF report from the listing.

I since found from a coupe of friends that he has in the past, deleted other posters DNF's as well.

It is a shame, because this person always does some amazing research about the location of the hide, so I know he puts a lot of effort into his hides.

I wrote a very friendly message to the CO to tell him, I would be glad to replace it. He doesn't seem interested in repairing/replacing them.I'm still waiting for a replay. I really don't mind doing a repair. It kind of depends on how he replies. If he refuses, I will go ahead and replace it anyway. If he is upset about this or refuses to maintain... and keeps deleting all the DNFs. What should I do.

 

Move on, and quit talking like a spammer.

[+Crow-T-Robot]

I wrote a very friendly message to the CO to tell him, I would be glad to replace it. He doesn't seem interested in repairing/replacing them.I'm still waiting for a replay. I really don't mind doing a repair. It kind of depends on how he replies. If he refuses, I will go ahead and replace it anyway. If he is upset about this or refuses to maintain... and keeps deleting all the DNFs. What should I do.

If a CO was reaching out the community because he wanted to keep a cache going but was struggling to maintain the cache, then I could understand replacing the cache for them. This CO doesn't seem willing to maintain their caches. If the cache is missing or broken, log an NA and when it gets archived, place your own cache nearby.

[+peanutlikesbeans]

It's always a shame when a cache owner reacts like that, but you acted appropriately given the circumstances.

 

I was looking for a Cache the other day (One that has a very special meaning to my Wife and I) I just couldn't find it. I found out from a couple of "GeoFriends" that this Cache has been gone for at least a couple of months.

 

I marked it as Did Not Find a while later the Cache Owner just deleted my DNF report from the listing.

I since found from a coupe of friends that he has in the past, deleted other posters DNF's as well.

It is a shame, because this person always does some amazing research about the location of the hide, so I know he puts a lot of effort into his hides.

I wrote a very friendly message to the CO to tell him, I would be glad to replace it. He doesn't seem interested in repairing/replacing them.I'm still waiting for a replay. I really don't mind doing a repair. It kind of depends on how he replies. If he refuses, I will go ahead and replace it anyway. If he is upset about this or refuses to maintain... and keeps deleting all the DNFs. What should I do.

 

Move on, and quit talking like a spammer.

[+peanutlikesbeans]

Quit Taling like a spammer?

I'm sorry I didn't realise I was. I thought I was just adding to the conversation. I didn't realize I was being a spammer. Just asking advice. I'm new here. I love geocaching I wanted to help out a fellow geocacher and not get him in trouble by reporting him. Thats why I asked if it was better to just replace the cache. ALl the geocachers I have met so far are great people. This is the first time I've felt I've had to go into defense mode. I'm soory if I offended you. .

Sorry DFX.

I'll stick with Geocache from now on. I din't realize this was such a click.

[+peanutlikesbeans]

Opps. Sorry again. i don't even know If I was replying to the rigt person. I'll get it all figrued out. I only started in novembere. This is only the second or thrid time I've even tried these boards. Sorry again if I'n not using them properly.

[+tozainamboku]

Opps. Sorry again. i don't even know If I was replying to the rigt person. I'll get it all figrued out. I only started in novembere. This is only the second or thrid time I've even tried these boards. Sorry again if I'n not using them properly.

You responded to a thread that was a year and half old. This topic comes up often so you may have been better off finding a newer version or even starting a new thread about the cache® you are experiencing a problem with.

 

One problem with geocaching is that there are all kinds of cache owners. Some will bend over backward to address problems with their caches. Some will do the right thing and when someone post a DNF accept it as meaning that someone couldn't find the cache. A DNF does not mean the cache is missing. But owners can evaluated the DNF log (or a series of DNF logs) and should check the cache to verify it is okay when this is warranted. But some owners take any complaint about the condition of their cache as if it were a personal criticism. They don't like seeing DNFs because they "know" their cache is there and if a cache has a DNF sometime other are discouraged from even trying to look for it.

 

You can certainly help out a cache owner with maintenance, but you should not replace a missing container without permission. For one thing, the container may still be there. Even if you found the cache before, it may have been moved (intentionally or not). When someone replaces a cache without the owner's permission, you run a greater risk of having multiple containers left in one place - and you may be extending the life of a cache that really should be archived, if there is no longer an owner.

 

You can report problem caches to the reviewers - either with private email or via a Needs Archive log. Often a Needs Archive log works better at getting a lazy cache owner to take care of a problem that a Needs Maintenance or DNF log. But often it just gets the cache owner mad at you. Even cache owners who don't do maintenance take a great deal of pride in their caches and don't like when someone implies they are not being a good cache owner.

 

Cache owners are a lot like first time forum posters. When experienced cachers offer suggestion on what to do (particularly the generally good advice to forget about it and move on to another cache), the forum newbies take it as a personal criticism. They will see some language that compares them to someone getting involved in something that is not their business or with being a "cache cop" or a spammer. These terms are not useful in explaining the reasons for letting it go, but occasionally people use them. I suggest ignoring the comparisons you don't like and graciously accept the advice to let this one go.

[+ras_oscar]

As point of clarification: unless you placed the cache or have previously found it, you can't report that its missing. You can only report that you didn't find it. Just because you have X thousand finds doesn't mean you won't occasionally miss a 1/1. When I do a DNF, I take great pains to stick to the facts. How long I searched, what caused me to terminate the search, etc. If I want to share facts with the CO that could be construed as spoilers, I include those as a PM to the CO. Remember, your DNF could be construed as a request to a total stranger to take time out of their life to check on the hide. You have an obligation (IMHO) to provide as much information as possible to the CO to allow them to determine whether a maintenance trip is warranted. I have only logged 1 NA in all my time caching. The CO took the hide offline. I first put it on my watch list and saw no action for 12 months.

[+ZeLonewolf]

I have heard many cachers complain about the prevalence of poor-quality, or caches that need maintenance for months or years, or any number of other lameness issues that have plagued our sport as of late. Yet many of those same cachers are unwilling to use the NM, NA, or even DNF logs.

 

If you don't post a DNF when you couldn't find a cache, YOU ARE CONTRIBUTING TO THE PROBLEM.

If you don't post a NM when the cache needs maintenance, YOU ARE CONTRIBUTING TO THE PROBLEM.

If you don't post a NA when the cache is clearly abandoned, YOU ARE CONTRIBUTING TO THE PROBLEM.

 

Local cache quality is up to local cachers. Everyone has a responsibility to other cachers to report problems when they see them. If cachers are more willing to use DNF, NM, NA, the culture will change.

[+Totem Clan]

there was one DNF before us, from over a month ago, pretty much confirming that the cache definitely was missing. the last found log was from 2 months ago. it should've been an easy park & grab.

 

This always confuses me, and I see it on people's logs often, words along the lines of:

"Owner might want to check this out as it hasn't been found for 3 months"

 

What does that mean?

 

If there were 10 DNF's in those 3 months then the fact it is missing might be a fair conclusion.

But I have seen it (and one popped up on the notification email this morning) where someone will post a Needs Maintenance log after just 2 DNF's and state "Not found in 3 months".

 

What has the timescale got to do with anything?

The cache doesn't go missing just because a certain amount of time passes without someone going out to look for it. Does it?

 

I many case this would be right, but in many more cases, a park and grab in particular, I'm sure there were lots of DNF's that were not logged. There is a group of 4 terrian caches not far from here that haven't been found in a year or more. I'm sure they are still there. Yet there are some 1/1's that don't have logs for a couple of months that I'm sure are missing. Many cachers won't log DNF's which makes you have look back at the log history and see how often the cache was found compared to what's happening now.

I would agree that on the face of it no finds for a month does not indicate anything, but it can be a signal for a problem with some caches.

[+L0ne.R]

The CO may not appreciate the comments, but other would-be-seekers will.

 

+1

[+supertbone]

I own a lot of caches, I don't mind the occasional nudge from a finder if I missed maintenance on a cache, but what irks me is when a finder gets snarky.

[+GeoBain]

Why is it that we tell people to use the search function and then slap their hand when actually do it?

[+Moose Mob]

I have heard many cachers complain about the prevalence of poor-quality, or caches that need maintenance for months or years, or any number of other lameness issues that have plagued our sport as of late. Yet many of those same cachers are unwilling to use the NM, NA, or even DNF logs.

 

If you don't post a DNF when you couldn't find a cache, YOU ARE CONTRIBUTING TO THE PROBLEM.

If you don't post a NM when the cache needs maintenance, YOU ARE CONTRIBUTING TO THE PROBLEM.

If you don't post a NA when the cache is clearly abandoned, YOU ARE CONTRIBUTING TO THE PROBLEM.

 

Local cache quality is up to local cachers. Everyone has a responsibility to other cachers to report problems when they see them. If cachers are more willing to use DNF, NM, NA, the culture will change.

+1

 

I always hear complaints about poor quality, but I can't address anything I don't know about. The NA log is the only log a cacher can put on someone else's cache that the local reviewer will get a copy of. The local reviewer is the only person other than the CO or GSP that can address the issue.

[+cx1]

Why is it that we tell people to use the search function and then slap their hand when actually do it?

 

excellent point

+1

[+L0ne.R]

The CO may not appreciate the comments, but other would-be-seekers will.

 

+1

 

Apologies....I didn't notice the date. Didn't realize it was a resurrected thread.

[+GeoBain]

The CO may not appreciate the comments, but other would-be-seekers will.

 

+1

 

Apologies....I didn't notice the date. Didn't realize it was a resurrected thread.

 

But the part you quoted and agreed one is just as relevant today as the day it was originally posted.

 

CO's often take offense to any criticism, but your fellow seekers need to know if there are issues with the cache.

[+peanutlikesbeans]

THank you for all the response since my original post. I did do the DNF. and I Never post a DNF unless I am almost positive that the cache has gone missing. I had several people say that it was missing. A a couple from people who had found it in the past. And yes, I did contact the person who hid the cache, (I made it a point not to mention his name) but have not received a reply as yet. I have only found 32 caches so far... I started on November 22nd. and I have hid too. Not a lot, but I fell I'm getting the hang of it.

Still a newbe and still getting the feel for it.

I have never thought of myself as a spammer or troll. You can call me a lot of things, but thats not one of them But am always grateful for any friendly advice.

Thanks again for the hints and responses.

Ed.

The CO may not appreciate the comments, but other would-be-seekers will.

 

+1

 

Apologies....I didn't notice the date. Didn't realize it was a resurrected thread.

 

But the part you quoted and agreed one is just as relevant today as the day it was originally posted.

 

CO's often take offense to any criticism, but your fellow seekers need to know if there are issues with the cache.

[+GeoBain]

THank you for all the response since my original post. I did do the DNF. and I Never post a DNF unless I am almost positive that the cache has gone missing. I had several people say that it was missing. A a couple from people who had found it in the past. And yes, I did contact the person who hid the cache, (I made it a point not to mention his name) but have not received a reply as yet. I have only found 32 caches so far... I started on November 22nd. and I have hid too. Not a lot, but I fell I'm getting the hang of it.

Still a newbe and still getting the feel for it.

I have never thought of myself as a spammer or troll. You can call me a lot of things, but thats not one of them But am always grateful for any friendly advice.

Thanks again for the hints and responses.

Ed.

 

I didn't see anything spamming in your post. Some people get upset when someone bumps an older thread. But I saw your post as being relevant to the OP. The topic is about CO's not maintain their caches, not about one particular cache not being maintained.

 

But I "think" the spam comment was more directed at your posting style with all the bolding. Don't sweat it.

 

You posted the DNF and you contacted the CO. Now just wait and see if the CO deals with it.

 

If he doesn't disable or archive or replace and you know that it is missing, then after a few weeks, go ahead and post an NA log on it and let the reviewer deal with it from there.

[+jellis]

THank you for all the response since my original post. I did do the DNF. and I Never post a DNF unless I am almost positive that the cache has gone missing. I had several people say that it was missing. A a couple from people who had found it in the past. And yes, I did contact the person who hid the cache, (I made it a point not to mention his name) but have not received a reply as yet. I have only found 32 caches so far... I started on November 22nd. and I have hid too. Not a lot, but I fell I'm getting the hang of it.

Still a newbe and still getting the feel for it.

I have never thought of myself as a spammer or troll. You can call me a lot of things, but thats not one of them But am always grateful for any friendly advice.

Thanks again for the hints and responses.

Ed.

 

I didn't see anything spamming in your post. Some people get upset when someone bumps an older thread. But I saw your post as being relevant to the OP. The topic is about CO's not maintain their caches, not about one particular cache not being maintained.

 

But I "think" the spam comment was more directed at your posting style with all the bolding. Don't sweat it.

 

You posted the DNF and you contacted the CO. Now just wait and see if the CO deals with it.

 

If he doesn't disable or archive or replace and you know that it is missing, then after a few weeks, go ahead and post an NA log on it and let the reviewer deal with it from there.

I couldn't see any spamming either. This cacher is still new to the forums and if someone thinks they did anything wrong it would have been better to point out the error to the poster and not shoot them down.

Edited January 20, 2012 by jellis

[+Totem Clan]

THank you for all the response since my original post. I did do the DNF. and I Never post a DNF unless I am almost positive that the cache has gone missing. I had several people say that it was missing. A a couple from people who had found it in the past. And yes, I did contact the person who hid the cache, (I made it a point not to mention his name) but have not received a reply as yet. I have only found 32 caches so far... I started on November 22nd. and I have hid too. Not a lot, but I fell I'm getting the hang of it.

Still a newbe and still getting the feel for it.

I have never thought of myself as a spammer or troll. You can call me a lot of things, but thats not one of them But am always grateful for any friendly advice.

Thanks again for the hints and responses.

Ed.

 

I didn't see anything spamming in your post. Some people get upset when someone bumps an older thread. But I saw your post as being relevant to the OP. The topic is about CO's not maintain their caches, not about one particular cache not being maintained.

 

But I "think" the spam comment was more directed at your posting style with all the bolding. Don't sweat it.

 

You posted the DNF and you contacted the CO. Now just wait and see if the CO deals with it.

 

If he doesn't disable or archive or replace and you know that it is missing, then after a few weeks, go ahead and post an NA log on it and let the reviewer deal with it from there.

I couldn't see any spamming either. This cacher is still new to the forums and if someone thinks they did anything wrong it would have been better to point out the error to the poster and not shoot them down.

+1

Better to ask and learn than to repeat the mistakes of others.