loging your caches as finds....

[+tinaforte]

just a question .....

 

so id like to know if your able to log your own hides as finds ....

im not planing to do so just a topic of discussion with a fellow cacher ....

if you working on a numbers stand point something like a powertrail would boost your numbers greatly ...

 

is it " morally wrong " or perfectly acceptable

 

and have you noticed if anyone has done it before???....

[YAYALEC]

Dont do it. You did not find it you hid it.

[+TerraViators]

just a question .....

 

so id like to know if your able to log your own hides as finds ....

im not planing to do so just a topic of discussion with a fellow cacher ....

if you working on a numbers stand point something like a powertrail would boost your numbers greatly ...

 

is it " morally wrong " or perfectly acceptable

 

and have you noticed if anyone has done it before???....

I don't believe there are any specific rules against it....but IMO, it is bad form.

[+dfx]

yep, it's widely and generally frowned upon, or otherwise ridiculed.

 

you'll find more variety in opinions when it comes to logging caches that are owned by a different user, but where you helped placing them. some people think that's ok, others not so.

 

generally: finding is finding, hiding is hiding. you can't really find something that you hid yourself. if you care about that, don't do it. if you care about the numbers more, then go ahead and do it. but don't be surprised if people look at you in strange ways.

Edited July 24, 2010 by dfx

[+Gitchee-Gummee]

From what I have seen, there is one notable exception...

 

Having a "find" on a cache that you later adopt.

 

You may hear of people "finding" their cache because it had been moved or hidden "better" by other cachers. In truth, that is maintenance, not a "find".

[+Lil Devil]

Just because you can do something doesn't mean you should.

[+dfx]

From what I have seen, there is one notable exception...

 

Having a "find" on a cache that you later adopt.

that's because you didn't hide it yourself, so you were able to really "find" it before you adopted it. quite logical really

Edited July 24, 2010 by dfx

[+thedeadpirate]

DFX, now is the time for Ni!

[+dfx]

DFX, now is the time for Ni!

not before the moose mob comes around :P

 

*ducks and runs*

[+TheAlabamaRambler]

Just because you can do something doesn't mean you should.

Words to live by!

 

+1 in the don't-do-it column.

[+tozainamboku]

if you working on a numbers stand point something like a powertrail would boost your numbers greatly ...

Let's examine just this statement. Someone wanted to increase their numbers so they hid a power trail and log the caches they hid. Do you think this cacher's new big number will impress other cachers? Do you think someone will appreciate the powertrail more because the hider incremented their numbers by claiming finds?

 

I've seen where a powertrail was hidden with a group account (set up just for the purpose) and then all the members of the group claim a find. If they are doing this just to boost their find count, I would view it the same as an individual posting finds on caches they hid just to boost their find count. My guess, is that when the caches are owned by a group account, the individuals that hid them find other reasons to justify logging the. Perhaps it is simply to get the caches off their nearest unfound list. When your account owns the cache, you can hide off the list (hide caches found or owned), so I'd be looking for a better reason before logging a cache I owned.

 

The find log is to record your experience finding a cache. If you hid the cache, you probably have better ways to share you experience hiding the cache (or making a maintenance visit). If you use a Found Log it will appear that you are doing so just to increment you find count. I am a staunch defender in these forums, for not creating unneeded rules regarding when to use the found log. I believe there are times when it is appropriate for there to be a found log from the same account that owns or hid the cache. I do not believe that boosting your numbers is a valid reason for using the Found log. If you did something that you feel deserves a Found log, then use a found log and tell us why you feel a find on your cache is valid. If you're just using a Found log to boost your numbers, then you are just doing something silly that may invite criticism from other geocachers.

[knowschad]

if you working on a numbers stand point something like a powertrail would boost your numbers greatly ...

Let's examine just this statement. Someone wanted to increase their numbers so they hid a power trail and log the caches they hid. Do you think this cacher's new big number will impress other cachers? Do you think someone will appreciate the powertrail more because the hider incremented their numbers by claiming finds?

 

I've seen where a powertrail was hidden with a group account (set up just for the purpose) and then all the members of the group claim a find. If they are doing this just to boost their find count, I would view it the same as an individual posting finds on caches they hid just to boost their find count. My guess, is that when the caches are owned by a group account, the individuals that hid them find other reasons to justify logging the. Perhaps it is simply to get the caches off their nearest unfound list. When your account owns the cache, you can hide off the list (hide caches found or owned), so I'd be looking for a better reason before logging a cache I owned.

 

The find log is to record your experience finding a cache. If you hid the cache, you probably have better ways to share you experience hiding the cache (or making a maintenance visit). If you use a Found Log it will appear that you are doing so just to increment you find count. I am a staunch defender in these forums, for not creating unneeded rules regarding when to use the found log. I believe there are times when it is appropriate for there to be a found log from the same account that owns or hid the cache. I do not believe that boosting your numbers is a valid reason for using the Found log. If you did something that you feel deserves a Found log, then use a found log and tell us why you feel a find on your cache is valid. If you're just using a Found log to boost your numbers, then you are just doing something silly that may invite criticism from other geocachers.

 

Toz... I really respect almost all of your posts. Well thought out and totally non-snarky, so don't take this wrong, but... have you had kids? If so, I pity them the first time they asked, "Daddy... where do babies come from?"

 

To the OP... the answer is, "No".

[4wheelin_fool]

just a question .....

 

so id like to know if your able to log your own hides as finds ....

im not planing to do so just a topic of discussion with a fellow cacher ....

if you working on a numbers stand point something like a powertrail would boost your numbers greatly ...

 

is it " morally wrong " or perfectly acceptable

 

and have you noticed if anyone has done it before???....

 

There is nothing morally wrong with it, as it really is your buisiness. However, if you are trying to impress other cachers, you will be achieving the complete opposite..

[+narcissa]

It's up to the individual cacher. The worst anyone else can do is roll their eyes at you.

[+thedeadpirate]

It's up to the individual cacher. The worst anyone else can do is roll their eyes at you.

 

Just make sure she signs the logbook, eh?

Edited July 24, 2010 by GeoBain

[+gpicard]

One time I was tempted to log one of my hides as a find because a previous cacher had moved it so far from where it was supposed to be..... but that's another topic!

 

Sorry, couldn't resist!

Edited July 26, 2010 by gpicard

[+DragonsWest]

I logged an Attended on an event I hosted. Is that bad?

[Andronicus]

My first hide, I quickly adopted it out to my dauter. Then, it was always on my unfound list. I was very tempted to log a find just to get it off of that list. But in the end, it realy just seemed wrong. Then after posing the question here, I realized how silly it would be to log it as a 'find' when I had not realy found it. What is the defenition of 'find' Here is my defenition:

 

Find: to search for, and discover the location of an object who's location was previously unknown to you.

[+brodiebunch]

Here's how your online log reads:

 

"We found our own cache, hooray! TNLNSL, TFTH"

 

Seems pointless and tacky.

[+wimseyguy]

If it will make you feel better about your find count in the morning, then go right ahead. There is only one opinion that matters when it comes to your numbers in this game, your own.

 

Attending an event you hosted is a different matter. You didn't hide the event, you merely listed it. And hopefully did attend.

[+briansnat]

I logged an Attended on an event I hosted. Is that bad?

 

I think that is commonly accepted as OK because you did attend the event.

[Clan Riffster]

I logged an Attended on an event I hosted. Is that bad?

I absolutely refuse to log an "Attended" on an event I host unless I actually attend.

 

As for logging finds on caches you own, gotta side with the majority.

I've done it twice, and will likely do it a few more times.

 

One was a cache I adopted without ever laying eyes on it. Once I found it, I logged it as such.

There are a few more I've adopted that I have yet to locate, and when I do, I'll log them.

 

The other was a cache that was hidden during a major event. As a rep for the group hosting the event, I was tasked with acquiring a bunch of swag, meeting up with the other reps and spending the day hiding the caches. A last minute family crisis intervened, and I was unable to assist in the cache hiding, but I was able to pass off all my swag to another rep. Before we parted ways, I asked him to pretty please hide at least one cache in a swamp, 'cuz swamps are my favorite playgrounds. Later that evening, they sent me a set of coords where there was an ammo can deep in a swamp, telling me to create a write up. I typed it up, then a couple weeks later went hunting for the cache, locating it and logging it as a find.

 

In both cases, I had no qualms logging them as finds, since I had to hunt them just like everybody else.

 

Others will feel differently, and that is OK.

 

Do what you feel is right, and you'll seldom go wrong.

[+rjb43nh]

Another possible exception I see, in addition to event caches, where an owner could log their own cache, is where the cache involved a challenge, like finding 100 caches in a day. The big part is meeting the requirements of the challenge, not finding the cache. I don’t see that as a problem if the owner has also met the requirements. The guidelines do say that there is an expectation that the owner also be able to complete the requirements of their own mystery/puzzle/unknown challenge cache but doesn’t say yes or no on logging it.

“Challenge caches incorporate special logging requirements and are listed as Mystery/Puzzle caches. Typically they require the seeker to have previously met a reasonable geocaching-related qualification (Waymarking and Wherigo qualify too, of course) such as first finding a cache in every county in your state. If you are thinking of creating such a cache, please include a note to the reviewer demonstrating either that you have met the challenge yourself, or that a substantial number of other geocachers would be able to do so.”

[Clan Riffster]

Another possible exception I see, where an owner could log their own cache, is where the cache involved a challenge

Some will agree with this logic, but I would not do so. For me, the key is whether or not I had to go through the same motions as every other geek out there. If I hide a cache and make it a challenge, I would still know where the final was. I think the most I might do is post a note detailing how I met the requirements.

[+Smurf]

One was a cache I adopted without ever laying eyes on it. Once I found it, I logged it as such.

There are a few more I've adopted that I have yet to locate, and when I do, I'll log them.

 

 

How do you maintain a cache (which you agree to do as owner as per T&Cs) if you don't know where it is ?

[Andronicus]

If you are exercising one of these exeption, make sure your log is quite detailed on why you are doing so. Otherwise, you may receive the scorne of your local cachers. I think a challange cache is legit. The cache find is not the real tough part of a challange cache, so you could log it. Or maybe you could just put in the cache page that you have accoplished the challange.

[+humboldt flier]

I would buy in for an event or a challenge cache. But other than that. Nopper - bad form.

[Clan Riffster]

How do you maintain a cache (which you agree to do as owner as per T&Cs) if you don't know where it is ?

It's a highly complex process:

 

1 ) Receive e-mail stating there is a problem.

 

2 ) Drive as close to the cache as is reasonable.

 

3 ) Walk to ground zero.

 

4 ) Hunt for the cache.

 

5 ) Locate the cache.

 

6 ) Conduct the necessary maintenance.

 

7 ) Rinse & repeat as needed.

[+thedeadpirate]

How do you maintain a cache (which you agree to do as owner as per T&Cs) if you don't know where it is ?

My guess would be that if you receive a number of DNF's that you would head out with a replacement in hand in order to find it and replace it if needed.

 

If someone reports other problems such as being wet or full log book, then you'd go out and find it.

 

The fact that he hasn't found it yet doesn't mean it's not being maintained.

 

*** edited to add parts in italics

Edited July 27, 2010 by GeoBain

[+TeamMagicParrot]

Ah yes, but you are still the "founder" of the cache!

 

EST.Whenever you placed it Haha

[+dfx]

Another possible exception I see, in addition to event caches, where an owner could log their own cache, is where the cache involved a challenge, like finding 100 caches in a day. The big part is meeting the requirements of the challenge, not finding the cache. I don’t see that as a problem if the owner has also met the requirements.

this has been brought up before, but i don't agree. you can only meet a certain challenge requirement, you can't "find" it. you can only "find" the physical cache. and by having placed it, you will know where it is, thus you can't really "find" it. challenge or not.

[+thedeadpirate]

Another possible exception I see, in addition to event caches, where an owner could log their own cache, is where the cache involved a challenge, like finding 100 caches in a day. The big part is meeting the requirements of the challenge, not finding the cache. I don’t see that as a problem if the owner has also met the requirements.

this has been brought up before, but i don't agree. you can only meet a certain challenge requirement, you can't "find" it. you can only "find" the physical cache. and by having placed it, you will know where it is, thus you can't really "find" it. challenge or not.

I'd have no problem accepting that as a valid find. I'd consider it sort of like "hosting" the challenge.

[+SwineFlew]

I dont think its wrong. Its up to the CO.

 

About power trail, it takes alot of time and money to set it up and I think they should get some credit for it and mark it as found. I do feel that people that whine about it are just plain jealous about the numbers those people got.

 

There was one really evil cache I was doing, Holy Macro, and the cache owner was there to show someone his cache and he end up helping us all. In the end, we as a group(there was about 12 of us) told him to mark it as a found because he was really looking for it and doing the work just like us. He did mark it as a found and I feel he works for it.

[+thedeadpirate]

About power trail, it takes alot of time and money to set it up and I think they should get some credit for it and mark it as found. I do feel that people that whine about it are just plain jealous about the numbers those people got.

If I were a numbers hound, I think I'd just automatically deduct those numbers from that cacher's totals if I knew s/he was part of the hide team.

 

And now you have me reconsidering the challenge cache situation also. Hmmmm. I'm conflicted.

[+DragonsWest]

About power trail, it takes alot of time and money to set it up and I think they should get some credit for it and mark it as found. I do feel that people that whine about it are just plain jealous about the numbers those people got.

If I were a numbers hound, I think I'd just automatically deduct those numbers from that cacher's totals if I knew s/he was part of the hide team.

 

And now you have me reconsidering the challenge cache situation also. Hmmmm. I'm conflicted.

 

If there were a challenge to cut down the largest tree in the forest with a herring, could you get a government grant to research means of preparing the fish for the job, or firing a frozen one through at hypersonic speeds until the tree fell? That would be a challenge. Optional logging - how much was the grant?

Edited July 27, 2010 by DragonsWest

[+thedeadpirate]

If there were a challenge to cut down the largest tree in the forest with a herring, could you get a government grant to research means of preparing the fish for the job, or firing a frozen one through at hypersonic speeds until the tree fell? That would be a challenge. Optional logging - how much was the grant?

 

It can't be done.

[+SwineFlew]

If there were a challenge to cut down the largest tree in the forest with a herring, could you get a government grant to research means of preparing the fish for the job, or firing a frozen one through at hypersonic speeds until the tree fell? That would be a challenge. Optional logging - how much was the grant?

 

It can't be done.

 

What IF you are wrong?

[+thedeadpirate]

If there were a challenge to cut down the largest tree in the forest with a herring, could you get a government grant to research means of preparing the fish for the job, or firing a frozen one through at hypersonic speeds until the tree fell? That would be a challenge. Optional logging - how much was the grant?

 

It can't be done.

 

What IF you are wrong?

 

I cannot tell.

[+Smurf]

How do you maintain a cache (which you agree to do as owner as per T&Cs) if you don't know where it is ?

It's a highly complex process:

 

1 ) Receive e-mail stating there is a problem.

 

2 ) Drive as close to the cache as is reasonable.

 

3 ) Walk to ground zero.

 

4 ) Hunt for the cache.

 

5 ) Locate the cache.

 

6 ) Conduct the necessary maintenance.

 

7 ) Rinse & repeat as needed.

 

 

ok ,, point taken I'll shut up now and sit back in my corner

[+NYPaddleCacher]

I dont think its wrong. Its up to the CO.

 

About power trail, it takes alot of time and money to set it up and I think they should get some credit for it and mark it as found. I do feel that people that whine about it are just plain jealous about the numbers those people got.

 

Baloney. It has nothing to do with jealousy. The fact is, there seems to be one set of acceptable practices for hiding/finding "traditional" geocaching, and those that hide/seek caches on a power trail want to justify a different set of acceptable practices because it's a power trail. Logging finds on caches one has hidden is just one of those practices and I can list several others that I have identified.

[+sbell111]

just a question .....

 

so id like to know if your able to log your own hides as finds ....

im not planing to do so just a topic of discussion with a fellow cacher ....

if you working on a numbers stand point something like a powertrail would boost your numbers greatly ...

 

is it " morally wrong " or perfectly acceptable

 

and have you noticed if anyone has done it before???....

The simple answer to your question is 'Yes, you are able to log your own caches as found'.

 

Whether it is 'morally wrong' or perfectly acceptable depends on 1) your moral compass, and 2) the specific situation surrounding the find.

 

This is one of those topics where absolute concensus is simply unable to be reached. In an earlier thread, several examples of when it might be OK to log your own cache were given. These included the following reasons, among others:

• You logged the cache as found prior to adopting the cache
  
• You adopted a cache that you had never before found
  
• The cache was a 'moving' cache and you didn't hide it in it's current location
  
• Some dastardly fellow deleted your legit log and you log a 'placeholder' on your own cache.
  
• You helped hide the cache and want 'credit'
  
• You helped hide the cache and you want it off your 'unfound' list.
  

Edited July 27, 2010 by sbell111

[+sbell111]

I dont think its wrong. Its up to the CO.

 

About power trail, it takes alot of time and money to set it up and I think they should get some credit for it and mark it as found. I do feel that people that whine about it are just plain jealous about the numbers those people got.

 

Baloney. It has nothing to do with jealousy. The fact is, there seems to be one set of acceptable practices for hiding/finding "traditional" geocaching, and those that hide/seek caches on a power trail want to justify a different set of acceptable practices because it's a power trail. Logging finds on caches one has hidden is just one of those practices and I can list several others that I have identified.

I think that it is self-evident why some believe that it is an apples to oranges comparison.

 

With a power trail, one of two arguments exist.

1. There are so many caches that there is no way that anyone would be able to remember how each one is hidden, therefore a cache owner has no significant advantage and should be allowed to 'run the power trail' and log the finds.
   
2. The caches tend to be hidden pretty much the same way, so after the first few cache the cache owner has no significant advantage and should be allowed to 'run the power trail' and log the finds.
   

[+Too Tall John]

What's all this nonsense about "getting credit" for the cache you hid?

 

You DO get credit for it, there's an entire column on your profile dedicated to "Geocaches Owned." Just click on the little "Geocaches" tab and you'll see it!

[+NYPaddleCacher]

What's all this nonsense about "getting credit" for the cache you hid?

 

You DO get credit for it, there's an entire column on your profile dedicated to "Geocaches Owned." Just click on the little "Geocaches" tab and you'll see it!

 

The argument presented, not that I agree with it, is that hides are associated with the user id that submitted the cache listing, thus the only "credit" for the hide is for the account used to submit it. Credit is for the cache "owner" (only one owner per cache allowed), not the hider. In the case of the TotG, multiple geocachers were involved in the hide, and a separate account was set up just for hiding all of the caches, thus each of the individual hiders didn't get "credit" for the hide. I suggested the they split up all of the hides among each of those involved in hiding them so that, for example, if 600 caches were hidden and 3 geocachers were involved, each would get credit for 200 hides. Instead, each of the hiders has credited their account with 600+ finds.

[+DeepButi]

I just hid a Fizzy challenge one and was planning to -someday in the next couple of years - find it when I meet the conditions. As an absolute exception.

 

Now, I'm unsure on what to do, but hopefully I have still a lot of time ahead to think about it and take a decission .

 

A part from that, no, don't do it.

[AZcachemeister]

yep, it's widely and generally frowned upon, or otherwise ridiculed.

 

you'll find more variety in opinions when it comes to logging caches that are owned by a different user, but where you helped placing them. some people think that's ok, others not so.

 

generally: finding is finding, hiding is hiding. you can't really find something that you hid yourself. if you care about that, don't do it. if you care about the numbers more, then go ahead and do it. but don't be surprised if people look at you in strange ways.

 

Truly.

There is nothing to stop you from logging your own cache 20...50...100 times, but what would be the point?

[AZcachemeister]

Last weekend, I noticed that a cache owner had posted no less than 14 'Found' logs on his own cache for visits and maintenance.

I mentioned this in my log, and he deleted all those logs rather than change them to something more appropriate.

I kinda feel bad about that, considering he lost 11% of his total finds...