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Micros the scurge of geocaching and maybe the end?


helix149
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I know many dont like micros and neither do I. Lately I have been wondering if they will be the eventual end of geocaching. We are lucky enough to live in an area that has over 2000 geocaches within 25 miles of the house unfortunately the majority of them are micros. It seems that there are so many micros with little or no thought to their placement that it has gotten to the point they are interfering with the placement of larger caches due to the over saturation rule. So why if so many feel the same way are there still so many micros placed around. This should be about quality not quantity and I fear if this trend continues we will not draw nearly as many new cachers to keep the sport growing. OK off my soap box and maybe off to find a good ole ammo can.

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I know many dont like micros and neither do I. Lately I have been wondering if they will be the eventual end of geocaching. We are lucky enough to live in an area that has over 2000 geocaches within 25 miles of the house unfortunately the majority of them are micros. It seems that there are so many micros with little or no thought to their placement that it has gotten to the point they are interfering with the placement of larger caches due to the over saturation rule. So why if so many feel the same way are there still so many micros placed around. This should be about quality not quantity and I fear if this trend continues we will not draw nearly as many new cachers to keep the sport growing. OK off my soap box and maybe off to find a good ole ammo can.

 

No, they won't be the end.

There is a movement among many geocachers to deliberately place larger caches to stop micros from becoming a virus. When you place an ammo can you block any and all micros from being placed within a 528 foot radius. Even placing a small will accomplish this task.

 

Some people talk of the days when there were fewer caches. They talk of less saturation and so forth. Mcros are great if you want to go back to the former days of limited saturation. Just block all the micros and all of a sudden the grid clears up. It's like Clearasil for the acne of the geocaching playfield.

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I have no problem with micros or even nanos. Some are part of very interesting caches, although as you know not all. Then again not all ammo cans are placed well either.

 

When I am caching with my 5 year old son then I make an effort to only seek out regular sized caches since they are more likely to contain something fun for him. But most of us are not 5 years old and do not need a matchbox car or happy meal toy at the end of ever cache. It is the adventure we are after and the rating system, as well as past logs, should give us a good idea of what caches are ones that would interest us.

 

But the surface area of the Earth is a finite number and at some point we will have filled every possible spot we can with caches, and that will be a bad thing for geocaching.

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<finds soapbox and climbs on>

I don't believe that it has anything to do with the container, for example micro vs. ammo can vs. lock-n-lock, but the location that a cache is placed. The helter-skelter way of placing geocaches to just place a cache will make the sport mundane. A micro left in a place of historic interest, view, etc... is, imo, a cache that I enjoy finding. It is at that point more than just a geocache. A cache in a lamp post in a parking lot of a mega-mart...not so much. I tend to not seek those. I plan to keep the game of geocaching interesting for me by not seeking out just any cache. There was a bit a while back on geocaching about "location".

I agree with having geocaches be quality over quantity. My opinion for power trails is that it causes more harm than good for the sport of geocaching. It has a tendancy to produce caches just for the sake of numbers. That to me is not good caching.

<falls off the soapbox>

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I know many dont like micros and neither do I. Lately I have been wondering if they will be the eventual end of geocaching. We are lucky enough to live in an area that has over 2000 geocaches within 25 miles of the house unfortunately the majority of them are micros. It seems that there are so many micros with little or no thought to their placement that it has gotten to the point they are interfering with the placement of larger caches due to the over saturation rule. So why if so many feel the same way are there still so many micros placed around. This should be about quality not quantity and I fear if this trend continues we will not draw nearly as many new cachers to keep the sport growing. OK off my soap box and maybe off to find a good ole ammo can.
I just bolded what I believe it the real issue that you are talking about. Size is irrelevant. There are plenty of fun and/or clever micros out there, and there are plenty of caches of all sizes that have been hidden with little or no thought to their placement.

 

But will that, then, be the true end of geocaching? Nawww... maybe geocaching as you know and enjoy it. But not the end of geocaching.

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Actually because so many people mark nano's a other you have to block that too. Only there are a few that are very large or just an interesting container that are marked other that you will miss if you do that. It sucks to have to week thru 100's of mismarked nano's to find the few gems. I actually wish they would get rid of other, because in our area it's been abused so much by the nano placers. Some because they just can't get it thru their heads that a nano is a micro and others because they don't want to give people the power to weed them out. Even putting that they are a nano in the description doesn't keep us from wasting time. Even more than a new nano size to select I'd like to see reviewers given the power to the change size (or ask the CO to do so) when it's clearly mismarked. Of course the CO should have the right to appeal to the reviewer and if the reason is good enough they could let it stand. Actually if they just did it on other (they would need guidelines for other) it might help. I'm fine with other for nano's that listed as other when they are included as part of a multi or to a degree when there someone is rating it a higher difficulty and doesn't want to disclose the actual size. But the vast majority that I’ve seen said nano in the description. Shouldn’t someone at least gently suggest that they should change the size to micro and give those of us who prefer not to search for them back the power to leave them out of our PQ’s? Maybe even changing the micro size to nano/micro would help. Since so many people just don’t seem to get that nano isn’t other.

 

And yes I do think that if so many people just keep putting out log only containers in easy places it will harm the sport. Sure there is a small set of players who go for numbers and love p&g’s but I think most people prefer to get a reward at the end of their journey. Rather it’s a cache with swag or a great view. I prefer the ones that give me both. If I do ever put out a nano it’s going to be as part of a multi. Too many of the ones today are for nothing but numbers runs. If I'd happened to run across a couple of dozen of these in my first weeks out I would have thought "what a silly game" and I'd have moved on. I'm sure there are a lot of people who have done just that and as the micros continue to take over areas I'm sure it's happening quite often.

Edited by wolfslady
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I know many dont like micros and neither do I. Lately I have been wondering if they will be the eventual end of geocaching. We are lucky enough to live in an area that has over 2000 geocaches within 25 miles of the house unfortunately the majority of them are micros. It seems that there are so many micros with little or no thought to their placement that it has gotten to the point they are interfering with the placement of larger caches due to the over saturation rule. So why if so many feel the same way are there still so many micros placed around. This should be about quality not quantity and I fear if this trend continues we will not draw nearly as many new cachers to keep the sport growing. OK off my soap box and maybe off to find a good ole ammo can.

 

I would think that if you are so concerned about the amount of micro caches being placed that you might want to up the number of hides you have with the kind of cache you like. What keeps this sport/hobby going is people giving back by hiding caches for others to find. It never ceases to amaze me that some of the people who complain the most about micro caches are those with very few, if any, hides of their own. Filter out the micro caches if you dont' want to look for them and only use their location to determine where to hide caches of your own of the type and size you enjoy finding. Seems pretty simple to me.

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I would think that if you are so concerned about the amount of micro caches being placed that you might want to up the number of hides you have with the kind of cache you like. What keeps this sport/hobby going is people giving back by hiding caches for others to find. It never ceases to amaze me that some of the people who complain the most about micro caches are those with very few, if any, hides of their own. Filter out the micro caches if you dont' want to look for them and only use their location to determine where to hide caches of your own of the type and size you enjoy finding. Seems pretty simple to me.

 

That IS what is ironic, in't it?

 

I have heard people with zero hides complain a lot about the hides of others. I just smile and nod.

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Mahself-I thin pur spelink iz da ent of geeahcachink az wee now id.

wur er yah smokin, Matt?

 

My guess would be pork or beef :laughing:

Kinda what I was thinking too. :laughing:

 

I know for a fact it is marinated Hamster Rump.

Edited by BrrrMo
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Mahself-I thin pur spelink iz da ent of geeahcachink az wee now id.

wur er yah smokin, Matt?

 

My guess would be pork or beef :laughing:

Kinda what I was thinking too. :laughing:

 

I know for a fact it is marinated Hamster Rump.

Mmm.... low & slow! Nothing quite as mouth watering as a pulled hamster sandwich!

 

Hey... if we get any farther off topic here, we are doomed to be the "scurge" of this thread.

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No, they aren't likely to be the end.

 

They are however, likely to continue to be a prime source of embarrassment and irritation. And as they seem to be proliferating faster than rats in urban settings, they are likely to continue to attract the unwanted attention of law enforcement.

 

Not that that maters.

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I love to find ammo cans but I like to find all caches.

Since I don't often trade things I just do it for the hunt.

4 out of my 5 hides are micros but they are placed where an ammo can or really even a regular wouldn't work.

I have 2 caches that are fully stocked and ready to go in my truck.

1 is an ammo can and the other is a regular.

When I find a spot that is worthy of them I will place them.

I do make sure I don't sterilize an area by hiding a micro there.

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:laughing:
Is that buttered? Can I have some?

 

It's "butter flavor".

 

Is that MICROwave popcorn? Y'know that stuff is the scourge of popcorn, and maybe the end of popcorn as we know it.

Once upon a time, the forum regulars responded to yet another "Micros are the scourge of geocaching" thread by discussing what kind of dessert they liked. Eventually it was what flavor ice cream they liked. Some clever person then created this smiley :laughing: Surprisingly, Jeremy added the smiley to the official list.

 

I believe :laughing: is the officially sanctioned smiley for these threads. It indicates that some geocachers don't care much for micros (aka raspberry ice cream) while other actually enjoy micros. What I want to understand is why the people who dislike micro are so vocal about it. We don't get threads objecting to large caches or even many objecting to cylindrical containers that get mistaken for pipe bombs. We do get some people who object to puzzles that are to hard and we get some who object to fake sprinklers, but the numbers just pale compared to people who object to micros. What is it about a type of cache that is much beloved by certain cachers that causes such vocal objections by others? What makes them such a threat that they need to be banned or at least have special guidelines to limit where they can be used? Why do they believe that everyone else objects to micros as they do? Why are you trying to take away Signal's raspberry ice cream?

Edited by tozainamboku
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I think that "I Hate Micro" threads are the scourge of caching...

 

I'm one of those folks who caches for the location and the quality of the hide rather than the container itself. I just found several micros yesterday on a BEAUTIFUL road near where I live, and each one was hidden creatively. I had a fabulous time. If a cache is placed well, who cares what size it is?

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I think that "I Hate Micro" threads are the scourge of caching...

 

I'm one of those folks who caches for the location and the quality of the hide rather than the container itself. I just found several micros yesterday on a BEAUTIFUL road near where I live, and each one was hidden creatively. I had a fabulous time. If a cache is placed well, who cares what size it is?

 

Life by exception, must be really grand.

 

And yet again we see just how large the word 'if' really is.

 

I nor my family discard trash in public places, yet trash can be found in many public places.

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Mahself-I thin pur spelink iz da ent of geeahcachink az wee now id.

 

That and the crappy coords from smartphone users.

 

Those are actually crappy coords from car GPS's plucked off the windshield. The smartphone GPS's are fine. From what I've been told, at least. :laughing:

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Mahself-I thin pur spelink iz da ent of geeahcachink az wee now id.

 

That and the crappy coords from smartphone users.

 

Those are actually crappy coords from car GPS's plucked off the windshield. The smartphone GPS's are fine. From what I've been told, at least. :D

~150 finds now with my Blackberry Curve that is about as accurate as was my Garmin GPSMap 60CSx tells me that smartphone coords, at least with mine, are indeed fine for geocaching.

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I know many dont like micros and neither do I. Lately I have been wondering if they will be the eventual end of geocaching. We are lucky enough to live in an area that has over 2000 geocaches within 25 miles of the house unfortunately the majority of them are micros. It seems that there are so many micros with little or no thought to their placement that it has gotten to the point they are interfering with the placement of larger caches due to the over saturation rule. So why if so many feel the same way are there still so many micros placed around. This should be about quality not quantity and I fear if this trend continues we will not draw nearly as many new cachers to keep the sport growing. OK off my soap box and maybe off to find a good ole ammo can.

 

I would think that if you are so concerned about the amount of micro caches being placed that you might want to up the number of hides you have with the kind of cache you like. What keeps this sport/hobby going is people giving back by hiding caches for others to find. It never ceases to amaze me that some of the people who complain the most about micro caches are those with very few, if any, hides of their own. Filter out the micro caches if you dont' want to look for them and only use their location to determine where to hide caches of your own of the type and size you enjoy finding. Seems pretty simple to me.

 

Actually I have 3 ammo cans out already. One is listed here, one was donated to upgrade a micron cache near home owned by another cacher so it could be a tb hotel and is currently in place. The last is listed as a terra cache because my local review wouldnt get off his pedistal over like 10 or 15 feet and ok it where I had placed it. I couldnt move it further away in the same area for safety reasons but the reviewer didnt want to hear that so rather than argue more I listed it elsewhere and left him on his pedistal.

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~150 finds now with my Blackberry Curve that is about as accurate as was my Garmin GPSMap 60CSx tells me that smartphone coords, at least with mine, are indeed fine for geocaching.

Crestfallen to hear that news, I have to ask... is your Blackberry Curve as waterproof as the GPSMap 60 CSX when you're nipple deep in alligator infested swamp water?
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~150 finds now with my Blackberry Curve that is about as accurate as was my Garmin GPSMap 60CSx tells me that smartphone coords, at least with mine, are indeed fine for geocaching.

Crestfallen to hear that news, I have to ask... is your Blackberry Curve as waterproof as the GPSMap 60 CSX when you're nipple deep in alligator infested swamp water?

What's more is can it shed crude oil?

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~150 finds now with my Blackberry Curve that is about as accurate as was my Garmin GPSMap 60CSx tells me that smartphone coords, at least with mine, are indeed fine for geocaching.

Crestfallen to hear that news, I have to ask... is your Blackberry Curve as waterproof as the GPSMap 60 CSX when you're nipple deep in alligator infested swamp water?

What's more is can it shed crude oil?

Yes, it is limited and fragile, I was not comparing those features. I was comparing it's ability to get me to GZ, which is equal to my 60CSX in MY caching conditions, which due to health and mobility issues lately are mostly urban and suburban drive-ups or at most 200' from the car.

 

For the reasons you mention plus others it would not compare with any dedicated handheld GPS but as far as accuracy, yep, it will. :D

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It seems that there are so many micros...

 

with little or no thought to their placement

You do realize that these are two separate issues, right?

A cache placed with little to no thought or creativity is lame, (to me), regardless of size.

 

That being said;

Personally, I don't think it's a coincidence that the vast majority of hides with a creativity vacuum are micros. It's been my experience that the type of person who gets gratification from hiding caches with little or no thought largely belong to the quick and easy crowd. Anything resembling effort must be avoided by this group at all costs. Acquiring, hiding and maintaining a lamp post film can is a whole lot easier than doing the same thing with an ammo can at the end of a 9 mile paddle or 15 mile hike. Because the acquisition, hiding and maintenance of these stinkers is so much easier, the hiders have little to stop them from spewing out dozens of these hides at a time. As more and more people enter this playground, there will be a percentage of park & grab junkies. Has the percentage increased? Personally, I don't think so. I think they are simply hiding more caches that those folks who enjoy a challenge.

 

There is light at the end of your tunnel though!

 

If you haven't already, become a premium member, and adjust your pocket queries to ignore any cache listed as a micro, other or not selected. You'll never have to deal with a lame micro again, and you can focus your energies hunting the types of hides you prefer. Complaining about something that will not change, and which you are capable of avoiding, makes you look like you are whining, and has a negative impact on your credibility.

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It seems that there are so many micros...

 

with little or no thought to their placement

You do realize that these are two separate issues, right?

A cache placed with little to no thought or creativity is lame, (to me), regardless of size.

 

That being said;

Personally, I don't think it's a coincidence that the vast majority of hides with a creativity vacuum are micros. It's been my experience that the type of person who gets gratification from hiding caches with little or no thought largely belong to the quick and easy crowd. Anything resembling effort must be avoided by this group at all costs. Acquiring, hiding and maintaining a lamp post film can is a whole lot easier than doing the same thing with an ammo can at the end of a 9 mile paddle or 15 mile hike. Because the acquisition, hiding and maintenance of these stinkers is so much easier, the hiders have little to stop them from spewing out dozens of these hides at a time. As more and more people enter this playground, there will be a percentage of park & grab junkies. Has the percentage increased? Personally, I don't think so. I think they are simply hiding more caches that those folks who enjoy a challenge.

 

There is light at the end of your tunnel though!

 

If you haven't already, become a premium member, and adjust your pocket queries to ignore any cache listed as a micro, other or not selected. You'll never have to deal with a lame micro again, and you can focus your energies hunting the types of hides you prefer. Complaining about something that will not change, and which you are capable of avoiding, makes you look like you are whining, and has a negative impact on your credibility.

 

Ignoring micros is a big part of the solution but it doesn't get rid of another big problem addressed by the OP:

 

"they are interfering with the placement of larger caches due to the over saturation rule"

 

When I find a micro (listed as a small, since I filter out micros) in a spot where a regular size cache would fit (hanging on a tree in the middle of a forest), I say something in my online log about how the area could support a much larger cache.

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Ignoring micros is a big part of the solution but it doesn't get rid of another big problem addressed by the OP:

 

"they are interfering with the placement of larger caches due to the over saturation rule"

 

When I find a micro (listed as a small, since I filter out micros) in a spot where a regular size cache would fit (hanging on a tree in the middle of a forest), I say something in my online log about how the area could support a much larger cache.

If people want more large caches they should hide more. There are still plenty of place where one can hide a regular or large cache.

 

What you seem to want sounds like an affirmative action program for the caches you like to find.

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I know many dont like micros and neither do I. Lately I have been wondering if they will be the eventual end of geocaching. We are lucky enough to live in an area that has over 2000 geocaches within 25 miles of the house unfortunately the majority of them are micros. It seems that there are so many micros with little or no thought to their placement that it has gotten to the point they are interfering with the placement of larger caches due to the over saturation rule. So why if so many feel the same way are there still so many micros placed around. This should be about quality not quantity and I fear if this trend continues we will not draw nearly as many new cachers to keep the sport growing. OK off my soap box and maybe off to find a good ole ammo can.

 

It really depends on your area. I find that as I travel, the size of the caches changes. Micros in a urban area are fine as long as they are clever. Micros in the woods are stupid. Some people seem to have this idea that caches are supposed to be as hard as possible to find for any one, when they are just supposed to be hard to find for muggles.

 

I have 3 micro's out, the rest are regular or bigger out of 10 caches. All 3 micros are in urban area's where you can't hide a regular size, and are clever and fun and not impossible to find. None of them are film cans. None of them are blinkys or bison tubes and none of them are magnetic key boxes.

 

As I cache I find that I am in it more for the hunt and care less about the size, but I find, LPH's, film canisters and Key boxes on guard rails to be the most boring and a waste of time.

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Yup. It's easy to place a micro. There are some micros that get placed in an endless series of lamp posts. There are some that get blown up by the bomb squad. There are some placed where the only reason given on the cache page is that the parking lot did not have one.

 

But there are others placed in great locations with thoughtful hides. I think of those as being somewhat similar to a register on a mountain. A way to record your visit.

 

It's probably easy to place an ammo can as well but they are usually found in locations that I am more likely to enjoy.

 

So the solution is not to simply say "ignore micros." In fact, it's not that hard for me to think about whether I really want to look in another lamp post, juniper bush, or guard rail before investing any time or effort. And it's not that hard to know that the cache might not be worth visiting before I go there.

 

But to facilitate matters I propose that Groundspeak add a trash can icon (or other suitable graphic) so that owners can help identify the caches that they have thrown down in random locations because they can't think of anything better to do. The attribute would work with any size. Problem solved.

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Figuring out the real reason for the proliferation of trache from the forums is as hard as filtering the same trache from your list of caches to hunt. That is to say you're gonna get a lot of chaff.

 

The hobby has had bad placements ever since we've started. The micros in our area all were very well placed and were placed only because nothing larger would fit in the style the owner wanted. Most were custom hides. All were trading caches to boot. The worse cache, IMHO, was a regular cache located next to a theater. It was only about 50' from the asphalt next to a nasty creek. When we found it, we had to step over rotting meat that had been thrown out from an adjacent restaurant.

 

Basically, that is to say, it's not the size that makes a bad cache. Well, until it gets so small as to not have any trade items.

 

From the time we joined there have been those whose primary concern is finding as many caches as possible in a single day or find more caches than anyone. Now, we used to boast on how many caches we've found, but it was from a stand point of how active we are, not how fast we can get from one cache to another, find the cache and move on to the next. We averaged finding 1 cache a day. That was loading all the caches we had available and attempted to find everything in front of us. What got real old was finding the cache and moving on to the next without exploring the surrounding area. We quickly realized we were missing opportunities to have a richer experience. We slowed our assault.

 

But there are folks who don't care about the experience of the adventure. What's important is to find the cache as fast as possible and then move on to the next one. Even to the point that they will only, or mostly, seek traditionals and limit themselves to easy caches--with zero tolerance for being at GZ for more than 5 minutes. (Not that not wanting to waste time is bad thing as we have zero tolerance for trache. As soon as we know a cache is trache, we move on.)

 

So, the natural progression is when an area has even one cacher whose attitude towards caching is more smilie collections than the adventure, and they've found all of the caches they can find or tolerate, they want more regardless of the quality. A sub-culture of those who actively place "gifts" comes about. These "gifts" are not of adventure, but turns out that they are some of the easiest to find, to retrieve, and without thought to adventure of all hunts. These exist solely as an excuse for someone to log a smilie. In the beginning these folks were very open with the reasons for the placements. "Here's a smilie for you." Not so much anymore, but the reasoning is still there.

 

Then as new participants discover the hobby, the "gifts" look like the norm. I see this in the local area here. For the longest time, there were very few micros or caches in ultra urban locations. Then an outsider came in and increased the micro population by 50% overnight. None were at the quality level of the existing micros. Most didn't even last a year from various permission or guidelines issues or good sense--some not even a month, IIRC. This last year saw more micros placed than all other sized combined. The year before micros were about the same as regulars with the year before that a bout two thirds the number of regulars. Most of all of the micros placed are what I call very sub-par. The progression of percentage of micros clearly shows an increase. The number micros greatly increase while the new placements of regulars stay about the same.

 

"A lot of cachers enjoy these caches!" Yep, that's true. The environment that has been created tends to draws that type of cacher. Old timers will remember when virtuals were as open to publishing as micros are today. The result was disastrous. The folks ho tended to hide these virtuals simply shifted to hiding the same quality only with a film can and slip of paper. Same thing. Easy, cheap, and lazy hides.

 

Once it becomes acceptable with enough of the population then it snowballs. With enough cachers only interested in finding anything then more and more low quality caches get placed.

 

I'd bet that most of these kind of cachers would immediately move to Waymarking.com if that site was as easy to use, had PQs, and aggregated finds.

 

"Just ignore micros!" For finding this is a good solution. For hiding not so much. All trache, including micros, have the same weight with regards to proximity. Therefor, ignoring caches for whatever reason and with whatever mechanism (filtering micros or placing individual caches on your ignore list) does nothing in respect to proximity. You can't ignore the trache if you place caches. What's ironic is the larger the trache cacher population the worse it gets for folks who want a quality caching experience. These folks can ignore all of the trache, yet have to look at it when it comes time to place simply to make sure they are not "infringing" on that space. So, unless you never hide a cache, you can't ignore the trache.

 

"Micros ≠ Trache" True. Unfortunately, the micro is the size of choice for the trache placer. Unfortunate, but true. Also, micros are the whipping boys of trache haters. (Guilty as charged.)

 

So, are micros the scourge and the end of geocaching? I have to say yes, and it has already happened. Sissy is no longer is enthused about caching simply because if the shear number of trache. Groundspeak refuses to provide either quality control or a rating system. So, for some, caching is dead due to trache. (Though good fun for others.) Caching is nothing like it was a few years ago that's for certain. "Evolved?" I say "Devolved." Would letterboxing be the same if it became acceptable to not put a stamp in the box? That's what happened to geocaching.

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Like I said, I have no problem with micros but for those that do and complain about it why not check out other geocaching web sites? A quick google search gave me this list:

 

http://www.cacheopedia.com/wiki/Geocaching....earthcache.org

 

I am happy with geocaching.com but folks there are options out there.

<snicker> Right. </snicker>

There was a time when those other sites had some viability, but that time has long since past. Geocaching.com is the geocaching site. Period. Yeah, there are a few that only use those sites, and a few that list on multiple sites, but if you want to geocache, you are coming here.

 

Besides, people have a right to complain about what they see as problems. No need to send them elsewhere.

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