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Micros the scurge of geocaching and maybe the end?


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Man, we could put an end to this topic once and for all, if only more people would hide ammo cans full of bison tubes. ;):o:unsure:-_-:)

 

Actually I've been thinking lately I want to hide an "other" cache somewhere, and use a micro in an obvious spot as a decoy. Open up the log only to find a piece of paper that says "this is not the geocache"... hehe, and have a small or regular nearby but really well hidden.

 

I like caches that meet any of the following conditions:

-sneaky hide

-good location

-cool cache containers

 

They don't have to meet all of the requirements, just one. Size doesn't matter at all to me.

 

Bison tubes...................................cool.

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I don't mind micros, as long as they are fairly decent hides in a suitable place, such as urban areas, lots of muggles, etc. But nanos stuck on roadsigns and bridge guardrails? Come on, lets try to get just a bit more creative, okay. Then when a new cacher joins up, he finds these hides, thinks they are the norm, then saturates an area with even more lame hides. I'm sorry, but the thrill of looking for a matchstick holder hanging in an evergreen tree after a half-mile hike just don't cut it for me anymore. The big number boys keep throwing them out for their buddies to get the ftf's, and the game just keeps devolving. This game used to be really fun, but when you get on the badside of some the "players", it's not really worth it.

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I don't mind micros, as long as they are fairly decent hides in a suitable place, such as urban areas, lots of muggles, etc. But nanos stuck on roadsigns and bridge guardrails? Come on, lets try to get just a bit more creative, okay. Then when a new cacher joins up, he finds these hides, thinks they are the norm, then saturates an area with even more lame hides. I'm sorry, but the thrill of looking for a matchstick holder hanging in an evergreen tree after a half-mile hike just don't cut it for me anymore. The big number boys keep throwing them out for their buddies to get the ftf's, and the game just keeps devolving. This game used to be really fun, but when you get on the badside of some the "players", it's not really worth it.

The new player who copies a certain cache style (any cache style) is doing it because that copied cache was fun for him to find. I don't personally define fun caches as 'lame'.

 

If you define caches that others believe are fun as 'lame', then the onus is on you to find ways to avoid these caches. The solution is not for others to stop placing caches that they enjoy.

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I agree with those who feel micros are a scourge to our hobby. I realize some micros are necessary in limited spots. IE; historical spots, etc. But, my experience yesterday finished it for me. We are visiting a portion of New York State through which the Finger Lakes Trail runs for over 500 mi. In planning a small trip of 20 caches around the area, we discovered most of them were micros!! One CO has 109 "traditional" caches within 25 mi. of our location. 6 of those are something other than micros. We went on the first two on our list and found them to be in the woods under a log! Needless to say, I have weeded out those from our future lists. Its a shame because, we found so many places that could have used "real traditional" caches but, we couldn't place any, even if we wanted to, because of a micro within the 528 ft radius. There's my soapbox entry for the day. Hope everyone who reads this is having a better geocaching day than I have.

 

Yeah, I'm familar with that. That situation there just happened with the one hider within the past year. If micros in the woods where larger caches can be placed isn't your idea of fun (and it ain't mine either), than you did the right thing in weeding them out. Lets see, posted Saturday, July 17th? I was in Central Ohio in 94 degree temps with two 10 year olds who were whining about stopping for caches in the heat. But all in all, I'd say it was a better caching day than you were having. :)

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For those of you that hate micros so much that you wish they'd all go away, good news is here!!! You can filter out Micro, Small, and Other as size selected on a cache, and get a PQ that will be Micro FREE!!!! You'll love it, more large containers than you'll ever be able to find in the rest of your caching career. Problem solved, right?

 

And for those that want to reply with the lame argument about missing out on the clever micros, the same applies to you. Filter them out anyway, and you'll still have more "clever" caches to find then you'll ever have time to get to, and you won't be bothered by ANY micros. What does it matter if you filter out a micro that you would have enjoyed, if you replace it in your PQ with an ammo can that you'll enjoy. Chances are you'll have a MUCH higher ratio of "clever" caches in your PQ without the occasional clever micro, right? And you'll still never be able to find all the ones that you have left over.

 

It's a win-win, unless you just enjoy complaining, in which case you'll complain about micros no matter how easy they are to avoid.

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For those of you that hate micros so much that you wish they'd all go away, good news is here!!! You can filter out Micro, Small, and Other as size selected on a cache, and get a PQ that will be Micro FREE!!!! You'll love it, more large containers than you'll ever be able to find in the rest of your caching career. Problem solved, right?

 

And for those that want to reply with the lame argument about missing out on the clever micros, the same applies to you. Filter them out anyway, and you'll still have more "clever" caches to find then you'll ever have time to get to, and you won't be bothered by ANY micros. What does it matter if you filter out a micro that you would have enjoyed, if you replace it in your PQ with an ammo can that you'll enjoy. Chances are you'll have a MUCH higher ratio of "clever" caches in your PQ without the occasional clever micro, right? And you'll still never be able to find all the ones that you have left over.

 

It's a win-win, unless you just enjoy complaining, in which case you'll complain about micros no matter how easy they are to avoid.

 

What about the people who label micros as small, other or unknown, which seems to be a significant trend.

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For those of you that hate micros so much that you wish they'd all go away, good news is here!!! You can filter out Micro, Small, and Other as size selected on a cache, and get a PQ that will be Micro FREE!!!! You'll love it, more large containers than you'll ever be able to find in the rest of your caching career. Problem solved, right?

 

And for those that want to reply with the lame argument about missing out on the clever micros, the same applies to you. Filter them out anyway, and you'll still have more "clever" caches to find then you'll ever have time to get to, and you won't be bothered by ANY micros. What does it matter if you filter out a micro that you would have enjoyed, if you replace it in your PQ with an ammo can that you'll enjoy. Chances are you'll have a MUCH higher ratio of "clever" caches in your PQ without the occasional clever micro, right? And you'll still never be able to find all the ones that you have left over.

 

It's a win-win, unless you just enjoy complaining, in which case you'll complain about micros no matter how easy they are to avoid.

 

What about the people who label micros as small, other or unknown, which seems to be a significant trend.

 

They are very bad people and shouldn't do that.

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For those of you that hate micros so much that you wish they'd all go away, good news is here!!! You can filter out Micro, Small, and Other as size selected on a cache, and get a PQ that will be Micro FREE!!!! You'll love it, more large containers than you'll ever be able to find in the rest of your caching career. Problem solved, right?

 

And for those that want to reply with the lame argument about missing out on the clever micros, the same applies to you. Filter them out anyway, and you'll still have more "clever" caches to find then you'll ever have time to get to, and you won't be bothered by ANY micros. What does it matter if you filter out a micro that you would have enjoyed, if you replace it in your PQ with an ammo can that you'll enjoy. Chances are you'll have a MUCH higher ratio of "clever" caches in your PQ without the occasional clever micro, right? And you'll still never be able to find all the ones that you have left over.

 

It's a win-win, unless you just enjoy complaining, in which case you'll complain about micros no matter how easy they are to avoid.

What about the people who label micros as small, other or unknown, which seems to be a significant trend.

I guess those people, and others, should read more closely.

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For those of you that hate micros so much that you wish they'd all go away, good news is here!!! You can filter out Micro, Small, and Other as size selected on a cache, and get a PQ that will be Micro FREE!!!! You'll love it, more large containers than you'll ever be able to find in the rest of your caching career. Problem solved, right?

 

And for those that want to reply with the lame argument about missing out on the clever micros, the same applies to you. Filter them out anyway, and you'll still have more "clever" caches to find then you'll ever have time to get to, and you won't be bothered by ANY micros. What does it matter if you filter out a micro that you would have enjoyed, if you replace it in your PQ with an ammo can that you'll enjoy. Chances are you'll have a MUCH higher ratio of "clever" caches in your PQ without the occasional clever micro, right? And you'll still never be able to find all the ones that you have left over.

 

It's a win-win, unless you just enjoy complaining, in which case you'll complain about micros no matter how easy they are to avoid.

What about the people who label micros as small, other or unknown, which seems to be a significant trend.

I guess those people, and others, should read more closely.

 

Maybe, but it doesn't do me any good if I want to filter out micros.

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For those of you that hate micros so much that you wish they'd all go away, good news is here!!! You can filter out Micro, Small, and Other as size selected on a cache, and get a PQ that will be Micro FREE!!!! You'll love it, more large containers than you'll ever be able to find in the rest of your caching career. Problem solved, right?

 

And for those that want to reply with the lame argument about missing out on the clever micros, the same applies to you. Filter them out anyway, and you'll still have more "clever" caches to find then you'll ever have time to get to, and you won't be bothered by ANY micros. What does it matter if you filter out a micro that you would have enjoyed, if you replace it in your PQ with an ammo can that you'll enjoy. Chances are you'll have a MUCH higher ratio of "clever" caches in your PQ without the occasional clever micro, right? And you'll still never be able to find all the ones that you have left over.

 

It's a win-win, unless you just enjoy complaining, in which case you'll complain about micros no matter how easy they are to avoid.

 

What about the people who label micros as small, other or unknown, which seems to be a significant trend.

What about any extreme? Can anything ever be said that someone can't find an exception for?

 

The suggested solution works for the vast majority; looking for extreme examples where it doesn't is not a valid way to argue against it.

 

Don't ignore good enough in a quest for perfect.

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If you define caches that others believe are fun as 'lame', then the onus is on you to find ways to avoid these caches. The solution is not for others to stop placing caches that they enjoy.

 

No, its because they are to lazy to go out and buy an ammo can or even some tupperware containers and camo tape, and then actually walk more than 50 feet from their car to find a creative place to hide a cache. The solution I've discovered is not going out of my way to look for micro's, which unfortunately is most of the caches that are placed in my area anymore. When I go on a roadtrip is when I find most of my caches anymore.

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For those of you that hate micros so much that you wish they'd all go away, good news is here!!! You can filter out Micro, Small, and Other as size selected on a cache, and get a PQ that will be Micro FREE!!!! You'll love it, more large containers than you'll ever be able to find in the rest of your caching career. Problem solved, right?

 

And for those that want to reply with the lame argument about missing out on the clever micros, the same applies to you. Filter them out anyway, and you'll still have more "clever" caches to find then you'll ever have time to get to, and you won't be bothered by ANY micros. What does it matter if you filter out a micro that you would have enjoyed, if you replace it in your PQ with an ammo can that you'll enjoy. Chances are you'll have a MUCH higher ratio of "clever" caches in your PQ without the occasional clever micro, right? And you'll still never be able to find all the ones that you have left over.

 

It's a win-win, unless you just enjoy complaining, in which case you'll complain about micros no matter how easy they are to avoid.

 

What about the people who label micros as small, other or unknown, which seems to be a significant trend.

What about any extreme? Can anything ever be said that someone can't find an exception for?

 

The suggested solution works for the vast majority; looking for extreme examples where it doesn't is not a valid way to argue against it.

 

Don't ignore good enough in a quest for perfect.

 

It is not an extreme example, In fact it is becoming quite common. Nanos are being listed as unknown or other and larger micros like film canisters and Altoids tins are being listed as small.

 

Also, if you live or cache a lot in urban areas, filtering out micros doesn't leave you much, if anything to find.

 

.

Edited by briansnat
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For those of you that hate micros so much that you wish they'd all go away, good news is here!!! You can filter out Micro, Small, and Other as size selected on a cache, and get a PQ that will be Micro FREE!!!! You'll love it, more large containers than you'll ever be able to find in the rest of your caching career. Problem solved, right?

 

And for those that want to reply with the lame argument about missing out on the clever micros, the same applies to you. Filter them out anyway, and you'll still have more "clever" caches to find then you'll ever have time to get to, and you won't be bothered by ANY micros. What does it matter if you filter out a micro that you would have enjoyed, if you replace it in your PQ with an ammo can that you'll enjoy. Chances are you'll have a MUCH higher ratio of "clever" caches in your PQ without the occasional clever micro, right? And you'll still never be able to find all the ones that you have left over.

 

It's a win-win, unless you just enjoy complaining, in which case you'll complain about micros no matter how easy they are to avoid.

What about the people who label micros as small, other or unknown, which seems to be a significant trend.

I guess those people, and others, should read more closely.

 

Maybe, but it doesn't do me any good if I want to filter out micros.

You know, you could just live with the few micros you end up with. I seriously doubt that this 'trend' that you speak of is truly 'significant', even though you claim that it is.

 

Of course, you also claim that your area has few micros, so it's not really a big problem anyway. (You also make other funny claims but lets save discussion of those for the appropraite threads.)

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If you define caches that others believe are fun as 'lame', then the onus is on you to find ways to avoid these caches. The solution is not for others to stop placing caches that they enjoy.

 

No, its because they are to lazy to go out and buy an ammo can or even some tupperware containers and camo tape, and then actually walk more than 50 feet from their car to find a creative place to hide a cache. The solution I've discovered is not going out of my way to look for micro's, which unfortunately is most of the caches that are placed in my area anymore. When I go on a roadtrip is when I find most of my caches anymore.

Congratulations. You came up with a way to avoid the caches that you don't like. Thanks for taking my advice. Edited by sbell111
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Also, if you live or cache a lot in urban areas, filtering out micros doesn't leave you much, if anything to find.
That hasn't changed a bit in the last ten years. In fact, the only thing your post shows is that our expectation that everyone else must constantly amuse us has increased ten fold.

 

If there are no caches in your area that you wish to find, you have several choices:

  • Be the change that you wish for. Hide caches that you would like to find and talk to your friends about doing the same. Understand that others will still hide caches that they like, even though you don't like them. That's life.
  • Look for caches somewhere else.
  • Look for the caches that you know that you'll dislike. (I don't know why anyone would do this, but you apparently do.)
  • Take up golf.

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Also, if you live or cache a lot in urban areas, filtering out micros doesn't leave you much, if anything to find.
That hasn't changed a bit in the last ten years. In fact, the only thing your post shows is that our expectation that everyone else must constantly amuse us has increased ten fold.

 

I think it's more about dumb-down geocaching - making it more about the numbers, that many of us are protesting.

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For those of you that hate micros so much that you wish they'd all go away, good news is here!!! You can filter out Micro, Small, and Other as size selected on a cache, and get a PQ that will be Micro FREE!!!! You'll love it, more large containers than you'll ever be able to find in the rest of your caching career. Problem solved, right?

 

And for those that want to reply with the lame argument about missing out on the clever micros, the same applies to you. Filter them out anyway, and you'll still have more "clever" caches to find then you'll ever have time to get to, and you won't be bothered by ANY micros. What does it matter if you filter out a micro that you would have enjoyed, if you replace it in your PQ with an ammo can that you'll enjoy. Chances are you'll have a MUCH higher ratio of "clever" caches in your PQ without the occasional clever micro, right? And you'll still never be able to find all the ones that you have left over.

 

It's a win-win, unless you just enjoy complaining, in which case you'll complain about micros no matter how easy they are to avoid.

What about the people who label micros as small, other or unknown, which seems to be a significant trend.
I guess those people, and others, should read more closely.
Maybe, but it doesn't do me any good if I want to filter out micros.

I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that you really love to complain, even when the thing you're complaining about is easy to avoid.

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Also, if you live or cache a lot in urban areas, filtering out micros doesn't leave you much, if anything to find.
That hasn't changed a bit in the last ten years. In fact, the only thing your post shows is that our expectation that everyone else must constantly amuse us has increased ten fold.

 

I think it's more about dumb-down geocaching - making it more about the numbers, that many of us are protesting.

That may be what you are protesting, but it certainly wasn't what BS was going on about. He was very specifically referring to urban micros.

 

(Also, I believe that this "dumb down" and "creativity" talk is mostly a mask for "anything the poster doesn't like is bad".)

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I've only been caching for 7 months and I know how to weed out micros at an amazing success rate via PQs and sorting/*reading* cache descriptions. If some of you are struggling I could give lessons in exchange for premium member fees... :blink:

 

And my thoughts on over-saturation... I'm guessing that at least 75% of the guardrail caches I've found are at a location where no one would be arsed to put an ammo can or some other container within 600ish ft anyway. That other 25% is unfortunate but oh well.

Edited by starfishsaving
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I don’t hate micro sized geocaches. What I hate is lame geocaches, and uninspiring locations.

 

The problem with micro sized geocaches, is that they seem to perpetuate lame geocaches. Let’s face it, it is so much easier to grab a key holder, and shove it under a lamp post, than it is to buy a large container, fill it with swag, and find an interesting hiding spot.

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Many people suggest that for those who hate micro sized geocaches to simply filter them out. However, I do not hate micro sized geocaches. I think they are great! What I hate is lame geocaches, which is something that I cannot "filter out" until after I have already found it.
If that's the case, then you're off topic. This thread is specifically about micro caches.

 

Lame caches should be complained about in a separate thread.

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Many people suggest that for those who hate micro sized geocaches to simply filter them out. However, I do not hate micro sized geocaches. I think they are great! What I hate is lame geocaches, which is something that I cannot “filter out” until after I have already found it.

Like you, I also have a dislike for what I consider to be lame caches. Lame, for me, are those hides, regardless of size, which are hidden in uninspired locations, with little to no thought put into the hide technique. This description accounts for roughly 98.2% of all micro/other/not chosen hides in my area. (Hey, if you don't know any real statistics, make 'em up!) As such, the "Filter Out" solution works wonders for me. For the other 1.8%, I filter out hiders. If I find a small, regular or large that fits my definition of lame, I make a note of the hider. If I see a pattern evolve, with one particular person hiding an excess of caches that hold little interest for me, I won't search for any more of their hides.

 

And I still end up with way more caches than I'll ever find in my lifetime. :)

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Many people suggest that for those who hate micro sized geocaches to simply filter them out. However, I do not hate micro sized geocaches. I think they are great! What I hate is lame geocaches, which is something that I cannot “filter out” until after I have already found it.

Like you, I also have a dislike for what I consider to be lame caches. Lame, for me, are those hides, regardless of size, which are hidden in uninspired locations, with little to no thought put into the hide technique. This description accounts for roughly 98.2% of all micro/other/not chosen hides in my area. (Hey, if you don't know any real statistics, make 'em up!) As such, the "Filter Out" solution works wonders for me. For the other 1.8%, I filter out hiders. If I find a small, regular or large that fits my definition of lame, I make a note of the hider. If I see a pattern evolve, with one particular person hiding an excess of caches that hold little interest for me, I won't search for any more of their hides.

 

And I still end up with way more caches than I'll ever find in my lifetime. :)

 

Yeah, it really sucks that people don't hide caches without you approving them first.

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If the people that hated micros and nannos so much were to place an ammo can everywhere then there would be no place for a micro.

 

I prefer to find a nice ammo can or decent sized container but I have no problems with micros because I am disabled and most days I cannot walk more than a couple of KMs.

 

Like everyone (I think) I agree that a micro has its place and it also has a place it should not be.

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Yeah, it really sucks that people don't hide caches without you approving them first.

Nope. Doesn't "suck" at all. In fact, I think it's pretty darn kewl that this game, played by gobs of people all over the world, has so many variances that, regardless of your personal biases/aesthetics, most folks can easily manipulate the game into something they enjoy doing. What would be a real tragedy is if this game were so rigidly controlled as to fit the individual preferences of only a handful of players. Who would we make fun of then? Little green lizards with overly inflated egos? I think that would stale rather kwickly. Here's hoping your aforementioned inner vision never grows to fruition. :)

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What about the people who label micros as small, other or unknown, which seems to be a significant trend.

 

Around here people seem to be proud to label their micros as such. I haven't yet seen a micro labeled as a "small".

 

Nanos however, are tagged unknown or other, but most hiders tell the size in the hint or description.

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The solution I've discovered is not going out of my way to look for micro's, which unfortunately is most of the caches that are placed in my area anymore.
Here's another way to look at what you said there... years ago, there problem would not have been any caches in (or probably anywhere near) these areas where you are now finding so many micros. There were fewer caches overall. Nowadays there are many more, and that increase naturally includes a fair portion of micros. You would not have looked for caches there before, 'cause there weren't any to look for.
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What about the people who label micros as small, other or unknown, which seems to be a significant trend.

 

Around here people seem to be proud to label their micros as such. I haven't yet seen a micro labeled as a "small".

 

Nanos however, are tagged unknown or other, but most hiders tell the size in the hint or description.

 

Tell me, how do people show their pride in labeling their micros as micros?

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<finds soapbox and climbs on>

I don't believe that it has anything to do with the container, for example micro vs. ammo can vs. lock-n-lock, but the location that a cache is placed. The helter-skelter way of placing geocaches to just place a cache will make the sport mundane. A micro left in a place of historic interest, view, etc... is, imo, a cache that I enjoy finding. It is at that point more than just a geocache. A cache in a lamp post in a parking lot of a mega-mart...not so much. I tend to not seek those. I plan to keep the game of geocaching interesting for me by not seeking out just any cache. There was a bit a while back on geocaching about "location".

I agree with having geocaches be quality over quantity. My opinion for power trails is that it causes more harm than good for the sport of geocaching. It has a tendancy to produce caches just for the sake of numbers. That to me is not good caching.

<falls off the soapbox>

I agree! Quality of cache is important to me...if I want numbers, I'll look for a lamppost, but usually I'll filter out those.

All of my caches(only 6 ) are at some area of historical significance. One I'd liked to place was at the old Mudd ranch, but the owner rightfull so refused permission. Afraid that items of significant historical value would be removed and forever lost. Others, I've refrained from doing because of plans to relocate this year to another state.

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Like you, I also have a dislike for what I consider to be lame caches. Lame, for me, are those hides, regardless of size, which are hidden in uninspired locations, with little to no thought put into the hide technique. This description accounts for roughly 98.2% of all micro/other/not chosen hides in my area. (Hey, if you don't know any real statistics, make 'em up!) As such, the "Filter Out" solution works wonders for me. For the other 1.8%, I filter out hiders. If I find a small, regular or large that fits my definition of lame, I make a note of the hider. If I see a pattern evolve, with one particular person hiding an excess of caches that hold little interest for me, I won't search for any more of their hides.

 

And I still end up with way more caches than I'll ever find in my lifetime. :)

 

Yeah, it really sucks that people don't hide caches without you approving them first.

 

I see no suckage. He has identified his preference and learned how to avoid them. It's not like he's lifting up a lamp-skirt and cursing under his breath "drat, foiled again! Stupid lame hides, what's a soul to do?!?!?!"

 

It's not like he's firing off email to hiders of caches that he doesn't like- he's just not searching for them.

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Around here people seem to be proud to label their micros as such. I haven't yet seen a micro labeled as a "small".

 

Nanos however, are tagged unknown or other, but most hiders tell the size in the hint or description.

 

I'm not sure about "being proud", but I agree, I've seen no examples around here of people labelling a film can size micro as "other". But lots of nanos listed as other, as the owners think of them as something other than a micro. (I know, per the definitions nanos are micros... )

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Also, if you live or cache a lot in urban areas, filtering out micros doesn't leave you much, if anything to find.

 

 

Just for fun, I ran a couple of pocket queries centered on downtown Durham, NC. (Actually, they are centered on GCWC68 which I could see from my office window, if I had an office window.)

 

Within a 10-mile radius there are 624 caches. 285 are listed as micros, 22 as unknown, and 3 as other. That leaves 314 caches, about half, that are "small" or larger.

 

OK, maybe Durham isn't actually "urban." Let's try the same thing centered on Times Square, in New York City... you can't get more urban than that!

 

662 caches in a 10-mile radius. 368 micros, 20 unknown, 17 other. That leaves 257 caches, about 38%.

 

Moral: filter out caches you know you won't like. There will still be plenty left to find!

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Also, if you live or cache a lot in urban areas, filtering out micros doesn't leave you much, if anything to find.

 

 

Just for fun, I ran a couple of pocket queries centered on downtown Durham, NC. (Actually, they are centered on GCWC68 which I could see from my office window, if I had an office window.)

 

Within a 10-mile radius there are 624 caches. 285 are listed as micros, 22 as unknown, and 3 as other. That leaves 314 caches, about half, that are "small" or larger.

 

OK, maybe Durham isn't actually "urban." Let's try the same thing centered on Times Square, in New York City... you can't get more urban than that!

 

662 caches in a 10-mile radius. 368 micros, 20 unknown, 17 other. That leaves 257 caches, about 38%.

 

Moral: filter out caches you know you won't like. There will still be plenty left to find!

 

Keep in mind, some people classify some very small containers, which technically are micros, as small. I.e. magnetic key holders.

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Let's try the same thing centered on Times Square, in New York City... you can't get more urban than that!

 

662 caches in a 10-mile radius. 368 micros, 20 unknown, 17 other. That leaves 257 caches, about 38%.

 

Moral: filter out caches you know you won't like. There will still be plenty left to find!

 

I think the worry is, that the trend is towards more and more micros. It would be interesting to compare statistics...what percentage of cache hides in 2001 were micros compared to 2002, 2003....2009. Someone got a line graph handy?

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Let's try the same thing centered on Times Square, in New York City... you can't get more urban than that!

 

662 caches in a 10-mile radius. 368 micros, 20 unknown, 17 other. That leaves 257 caches, about 38%.

 

Moral: filter out caches you know you won't like. There will still be plenty left to find!

 

I think the worry is, that the trend is towards more and more micros. It would be interesting to compare statistics...what percentage of cache hides in 2001 were micros compared to 2002, 2003....2009. Someone got a line graph handy?

 

The problem with comparing 2001 (and successive years) is the good spots are cumulatively taken, thus exerting pressure on new hiders to pursue spaces which are less fit for larger caches.

 

The results of each iteration of the study affect the succeeding study.

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Nanos are being listed as unknown or other and larger micros like film canisters and Altoids tins are being listed as small.

 

I'll beat my drum again - "nano" needs it's own separate category, and many of these problems will be...well, not solved, but better...

 

A few points of perspective (as voiced by Anton Ego)

 

1) being a "radius whore" I feel compelled to find anything and everything within 20 miles of my house, although I think I'm getting better... That means no filtering and finding whatever is out there. I was up to 28.8 miles at one point... anyway, I see every kind of cache...

 

2) without micros I wouldn't be geocaching. I tried a few geocaches in 2002 and 2003 and found huge pickle buckets in the woods with piles of sticks on them. (mostly junk in there back then too, BTW, although people will tell you otherwise) At the first one I said "cool" - second "pretty cool" - third "oh, there it is (from 100 feet away) - fourth "is this all there is to this game?". After a few more I didn't search much for a while. I decided to try one out on a greenway near my house one day a year later - no luck. Searched again - no luck. Got a hint - no luck. Finally found the thing after about 5 trips and countless hours - it was an evil micro - a black bison tube about 15 feet up in a tree in the woods. Very obvious (if you know where to look) but almost impossible to find. I was hooked...

 

3) Now I have kids and #2 does not fit very well any more. The beauty of this game is that all sorts can play. With young kids my worst nightmare is spending an hour looking for a nano which is bound to disappoint them when found. (and if not found the kids can't understand it at all...) I've changed my hiding a bit to recognize that bigger caches are better for lots of people.

 

4) I was the first to hide a bison tube in Alabama and the first to hide a nano here. I regret the second now... While I'm pretty good at finding nanos they really aren't as fun as bison tubes. Hide-a-keys and film cans are downright spacious and should be in a different category - that's why they are listed as "small" by a lot of people. If you can put a coin in there it must be "small". Again, a deficiency of categories...

 

Enough of my "perspective" for now...

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Let me just say this, I have a lot of caches and a little less than half are micros. If someone approached me offing to place a larger cache I'd archive my cache in a heartbeat. Fact is, I have for a couple challenge caches. So, instead of complaining about too many micros which I did 43 micros out of 51 the other day which I have to admit I had some undesirable thoughts about. Ask the owner if they will yield to your ammo can. We'd all like a new cache in our area since most of us have long since cleaned out those close to home where we started planting ages ago.

 

With that being said, bring your regulars to my neighborhood and plant away!!! I might say "No on a couple but I'm sure we can find something!" The other thing is, more than 15% of caches are replaced every year. So, if your serious keep track of the archives and step up just don't hesitate or blink. What I've found is that most people deliberate over the exact right cache location and seldom place them...

 

Oh, another thought that I use. Geocaching is a diverse sport and each of us have to accommodate the like and dislikes of other cachers. Personally I plant a little of everything with variation. So, best thing is filter out what you don't like or for that fact who you don't like too. For example, I know this one cache planter who does mostly 35mm on wire hanging. So, if you don't like them just don't do his and the same goes for those too difficult or too easy. It's pretty simple, just enjoy the sport.... Oh, there is room for everyone, me too. Yes, set an example and I'll come and find your caches especially if they are down the street from me. Yes, Bittsen your in my neighborhood with 33 finds and 17 were micros. By the way everyone, I've done 6 of Bittsens and 3 were micros... Thx B. I enjoyed each one of them....

 

Happy caching,

Edited by baradam
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For those of you that hate micros so much that you wish they'd all go away, good news is here!!! You can filter out Micro, Small, and Other as size selected on a cache, and get a PQ that will be Micro FREE!!!! You'll love it, more large containers than you'll ever be able to find in the rest of your caching career. Problem solved, right?

 

And for those that want to reply with the lame argument about missing out on the clever micros, the same applies to you. Filter them out anyway, and you'll still have more "clever" caches to find then you'll ever have time to get to, and you won't be bothered by ANY micros. What does it matter if you filter out a micro that you would have enjoyed, if you replace it in your PQ with an ammo can that you'll enjoy. Chances are you'll have a MUCH higher ratio of "clever" caches in your PQ without the occasional clever micro, right? And you'll still never be able to find all the ones that you have left over.

 

It's a win-win, unless you just enjoy complaining, in which case you'll complain about micros no matter how easy they are to avoid.

What about the people who label micros as small, other or unknown, which seems to be a significant trend.
I guess those people, and others, should read more closely.
Maybe, but it doesn't do me any good if I want to filter out micros.

I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that you really love to complain, even when the thing you're complaining about is easy to avoid.

 

I'm just pointing out that for those who dislike micros, filtering them out doesn't solve the problem anymore because so many are mislabeled these days.

 

You might have missed some discussions regarding this trend.

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Some of y'all may be pleased to hear that at a monthly geocaching dinner that I hosted Tuesday night we had 30-something attendees. As I usually do I hid several caches around the restaurant perimeter for attendees to find (I usually make up some sort of participation game to discover the coords to entertain folks).

 

One was an ammo can, one a CITO Micro (film can with a garbage bag in it) and two were new nanos still in the package. FTF keeps the container.

 

Almost everyone hunted the ammo can, a few hunted the micro, only one or two hunted the nanos.

 

So don't despair, ammo cans still rule the game! :laughing:

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I know many dont like micros and neither do I. Lately I have been wondering if they will be the eventual end of geocaching. We are lucky enough to live in an area that has over 2000 geocaches within 25 miles of the house unfortunately the majority of them are micros. It seems that there are so many micros with little or no thought to their placement that it has gotten to the point they are interfering with the placement of larger caches due to the over saturation rule. So why if so many feel the same way are there still so many micros placed around. This should be about quality not quantity and I fear if this trend continues we will not draw nearly as many new cachers to keep the sport growing. OK off my soap box and maybe off to find a good ole ammo can.

To put in my two cents:

 

I am relatively new to geocaching and when I started I went to the local group meeting of geocachers. I actually expressed a concern just like helix149 did. I personally do not care for micro's and nano caches as, I felt, is not part of the spirit of a "treasure hunt". How can you put in and take out stuff when there is no room for stuff?

 

However, I was reminded that Geocaching is what we make of it. Many love going to micro and nano caches as they enjoy the hunt for a cache. Some go Geocaching to see new areas they never been to. Some do like I do.

 

More over, some love creating large log enteries. Some just a quick TFTC. Some post pictures (like me). Others do not.

 

Some move trackables and even protect them. Others avoid them like the plague.

 

The point to this is, I have learned the game is what you make of it. The game is how you have fun with it. If you not like micro and nano caches, don't look for them. Create your pocket queries filtering out micro and nano caches. If you go to a cache and its not the right size, make sure you log that information so the owner can have it changed.

 

Finally, to those who hide caches, please make sure it has a sticker well placed that says it is a geocache! And the owner of the property knows it is there. Law inforcement is very jumpy (and they have the right to be). Get permission and make sure it is marked on the outside.

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For those of you that hate micros so much that you wish they'd all go away, good news is here!!! You can filter out Micro, Small, and Other as size selected on a cache, and get a PQ that will be Micro FREE!!!! You'll love it, more large containers than you'll ever be able to find in the rest of your caching career. Problem solved, right?

 

And for those that want to reply with the lame argument about missing out on the clever micros, the same applies to you. Filter them out anyway, and you'll still have more "clever" caches to find then you'll ever have time to get to, and you won't be bothered by ANY micros. What does it matter if you filter out a micro that you would have enjoyed, if you replace it in your PQ with an ammo can that you'll enjoy. Chances are you'll have a MUCH higher ratio of "clever" caches in your PQ without the occasional clever micro, right? And you'll still never be able to find all the ones that you have left over.

 

It's a win-win, unless you just enjoy complaining, in which case you'll complain about micros no matter how easy they are to avoid.

What about the people who label micros as small, other or unknown, which seems to be a significant trend.
I guess those people, and others, should read more closely.
Maybe, but it doesn't do me any good if I want to filter out micros.

I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that you really love to complain, even when the thing you're complaining about is easy to avoid.

 

I'm just pointing out that for those who dislike micros, filtering them out doesn't solve the problem anymore because so many are mislabeled these days.

 

You might have missed some discussions regarding this trend.

I like how you pretrend that you have even tried any solutions given in the many previous threads even though you have oft stated that you have not.

 

Here's the takeaway from all of those threads (and this one):

 

Imagine that there are 500 caches in an area and 250 are not to your liking. You are able to easily do an initial sort that removes a subset of these caches that includes 225 'bad' caches and 25 'good' caches, you are left with 225 'good' caches and 25 'bad' ones. You can take additional easy steps that would weed out the remaining 25 'bad' ones and toss back in the 25 'good' ones, but even if you didn't you would be left with a much higher percentage of 'good' caches than there ever were in total since you began playing this game. If you can't live with that much smaller percentage of 'bad' caches, the problem is you.

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For those of you that hate micros so much that you wish they'd all go away, good news is here!!! You can filter out Micro, Small, and Other as size selected on a cache, and get a PQ that will be Micro FREE!!!! You'll love it, more large containers than you'll ever be able to find in the rest of your caching career. Problem solved, right?

 

And for those that want to reply with the lame argument about missing out on the clever micros, the same applies to you. Filter them out anyway, and you'll still have more "clever" caches to find then you'll ever have time to get to, and you won't be bothered by ANY micros. What does it matter if you filter out a micro that you would have enjoyed, if you replace it in your PQ with an ammo can that you'll enjoy. Chances are you'll have a MUCH higher ratio of "clever" caches in your PQ without the occasional clever micro, right? And you'll still never be able to find all the ones that you have left over.

 

It's a win-win, unless you just enjoy complaining, in which case you'll complain about micros no matter how easy they are to avoid.

What about the people who label micros as small, other or unknown, which seems to be a significant trend.
I guess those people, and others, should read more closely.
Maybe, but it doesn't do me any good if I want to filter out micros.
I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that you really love to complain, even when the thing you're complaining about is easy to avoid.
I'm just pointing out that for those who dislike micros, filtering them out doesn't solve the problem anymore because so many are mislabeled these days.

 

You might have missed some discussions regarding this trend.

No, that's not what you're doing. What you're just doing is ignoring the bolded and large sized type in the inner most quoted post here, where I specifically state that in order to get micros out of your PQs you have to filter out 1) Micros, 2) Small, and 3) Other, and when you do this you'll get rid of the micros that are in the wrong category.

 

I didn't, however, add that there are probably a few micros that are also labled Regular and maybe even Large, but hopefully those were truly an accident by the hider and not an intentional attempt to mislead the finder.

 

But even so, as I and many other people have pointed out, if you just exclude Micro, Small, and Other, you'll still have WAY more caches that you like than you'll ever be able to find. And isn't that the point of complaining about micros in this thread?

 

**** Obvious disclaimer: I'm fully aware that Briansnats point of complaining in this thread is just to complain. My continued replies to him are for the benefit of others reading this thread that might read his posts and believe him. I'm honestly trying to help those folks that don't like micros to avoid them, and understand that other people actually do enjoy micros and that's why we have so many.

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...in order to get micros out of your PQs you have to filter out 1) Micros, 2) Small, and 3) Other

It may be a regional phenomenon, but around here you gotta exclude micro, other and not chosen, if you want to avoid hunting those caches on the smaller end of the size spectrum. The percentage of micros around these parts which are listed as small is so low as to be inconsequential.

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Imagine that there are 500 caches in an area and 250 are not to your liking. You are able to easily do an initial sort that removes a subset of these caches that includes 225 'bad' caches and 25 'good' caches, you are left with 225 'good' caches and 25 'bad' ones. You can take additional easy steps that would weed out the remaining 25 'bad' ones and toss back in the 25 'good' ones, but even if you didn't you would be left with a much higher percentage of 'good' caches than there ever were in total since you began playing this game. If you can't live with that much smaller percentage of 'bad' caches, the problem is you.

 

I resisted for a while, but I've come around to this way of thinking too. I eliminate the vast majority of micros with the PQ check boxes. I've identified that there is a single cacher in my area with 100+ hides that are micros labeled as "other or unknown". I've added those to my ignore list. The remaining mislabeled caches are few and far between and almost recognizable on site. Anytime I see a "other or unknown" I can pretty much determine if it's a micro with a quick glance at the description.

 

When pulling PQs for areas away from home I usually filter out "other and unknown" for the sake of simplicity.

 

I've also avoided any caches that appear to be in a parking lot or similar gathering place for lamp posts.

 

Don't get me wrong, my personal preference is that people not label a micro(nano) as "other or unknown". But I don't expect all cachers to adhere to my personal preference either.

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There is a lot to try and follow in this thread...

 

Personally: I have no issues with micros or any specific cache size. And I enjoy ~95% of the caches I find. For me, the most important aspect of a cache is the location. Give me a cache in a nice location with a good walk to get to it, and I'm happy. Doesn't matter what size it is. Doesn't really matter if the hide is highly imaginative, or "ordinary".

 

So the main "filtering" I do is manual, and is based on location. I almost exclusively go for caches in rural locations (in the "countryside" as we say here). I can pretty much tell by looking at a detailed map if the walk looks interesting.

 

I do appreciate the highly imaginative cache - those are a bonus. (And they can be of any size). And all things being equal, I do prefer larger containers, as 1) I like finding/moving trackables, and 2) When caching with my children they like swaps. But it's not a big deal for me.

 

However, I do not like the micro in the woods with heavy tree cover and no hint.... but those are fairly rare.

 

Any "urban" caching I do locally (e.g. supermarket parking lot) is when I'm going there anyway; and my expectations there are low.

 

Having said all that - I agree with the suggestions that if you don't like a type of cache, try to avoid those (by filtering of your query, or manually filtering based on location).

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