Caches containing Ammo

[+mountainman38]

Although, of course, the same should also apply to people who think that it's ridiculous to complain about ammo in caches. For some, opposition to guns and all related things is a deeply personal or religious conviction.

 

Both however are against the rules/guidelines, so any discussions on whether either is considered "acceptable swag" is a moot point!

 

And i agree, some people are anti-gun (as some are deeply offended by condoms), so either should not be left in ANY geocaches. Let's be civil, here, folks.

How is this not being civil?

 

And what happened to this:

Kill this thread ... please!

It's amazing how people who want a thread shut down or locked, so no one can post to it, are then happy to keep on posting away themselves. Let's be fair, folks!

[+ohmerfam]

Perhaps "civil" was the wrong word. i am only asking that we appreciate the fact that some people's religious beliefs and/or customs don't appreciate ammo or condoms in a game that is meant to be enjoyed by families.

 

The "Kill this thread" comment was made in jest. i am in no way trying to shut down or lock down anything. Actually, i agreed with most of your points in this discussion.

[Andronicus]

.... While their (condoms) intended purpose is not suitable for all ages, there are a number of uses that are quite suitable for all ages.

 

...

 

Good point. They make good water shields for the barrel of your rifle. (just to tie it all back into the ammo discussion) You don't even have to remove it whey you want to fire your rifle, it has next to no impact on the balistics of you system. (no, rifle and system are not euphemisms for other condom related items)

[+ohmerfam]

[+ihorn]

HI, long time lurker, first time poster etc... Nice to meet you all.

I thought I'd crawl out of the woodwork to post a true story that might provide some food for thought on this subject.

The very first cache I ever found with a GPS, long ago, and far away. Contained 4000 rnds of ammo, 12 lbs. of C-4, and various support equipment. I can tell you that I was quite happy to find it at the time. As it allowed me to continue doing my job. I.E. Killing People! Ofcourse that was back when only the COOL KIDS had GPS, and we all caried weapons!

The moral of the story for those who Who need an extra clue, is that The GPS that we all use for fun and games is infact a military weapons system in and of itself.

So. If you're opposed to ammunition for "moral reasons" How do you justify playing games with A military weapon?

 

 

Edited for spelling; Now with 14% less snark.

 

Actually the data transfer system that we all use everyday called the internet is a military weapon. Most of our technology has come due to the military wanting it first, and then adoption by the civilian sector. Cell phones another example.

 

I am not against weapons at all. I believe all responsible people should own one if they want. I just dont believe you should put a round in a cache. I dont know if anyone else was ever trained the way I was when it comes to ammunition, but I was always taught to assume live unless you know for a fact otherwise.

[+Gamaliel]

I find it interesting that there are people who are fine with ammo being in caches because we need to teach kids about safety, but who apparently aren't fine with condoms being in caches. Shouldn't we be teaching kids about safety in both areas?

 

Not singling you out for a reply, just using this comment as a springboard to discuss the thread as a whole.

 

I think this ammo versus condoms (condom wraps ammo! ammo shoots paper!) debate is a bit of a sideshow. It doesn't matter which is safer or more appropriate, neither item is appropriate for a cache. Geocaches should not be forums for safety discussions, those discussions should take place in a manner determined by the parents.

 

I live in a near tropical state where wildfires are frequent. Almost every cacher I know has joined the Burnt Cache Club and land managers often demand that batteries not be left in a cache, much less live ammo or birth control. I wouldn't trust any of those items to stand up to the elements 100% down here, even without a fire.

[+mountainman38]

Perhaps "civil" was the wrong word. i am only asking that we appreciate the fact that some people's religious beliefs and/or customs don't appreciate ammo or condoms in a game that is meant to be enjoyed by families.

 

I certainly agree on the need for respect. I didn't think people were being disrespectful, but we all perceive things differently.

 

The "Kill this thread" comment was made in jest. i am in no way trying to shut down or lock down anything. Actually, i agreed with most of your points in this discussion.

 

Okee dokee. It's a little difficult to hear sarcasm in print -- perhaps a subtle emoticon would help convey your jestfulness better? Just a thought.

[+Chrysalides]

Important distinction : Military technology ≠ Military weapon

 

Unless I'm in the habit of using my GPSr to club other geocachers going for the FTF, my GPSr is not a weapon. That it has its roots in military technology research is indisputable.

 

And we're wandering off topic again...

 

Regardless of personal beliefs, the guidelines specifically prohibit ammo in geocaches, and there are safety and (in some states) legal reasons for that. If you feel that leaving ammo in geocaches is a good idea, please provide arguments other than "because I want to" or "I'm standing up for my Second Amendment rights".

 

By the way, that silver bullet reloaded with sand is a really neat idea. I'd put it in a baggie, though, and include a note stating it is not a live round.

[+roziecakes]

 

Regardless of personal beliefs, the guidelines specifically prohibit ammo in geocaches, and there are safety and (in some states) legal reasons for that. If you feel that leaving ammo in geocaches is a good idea, please provide arguments other than "because I want to" or "I'm standing up for my Second Amendment rights".

 

 

I am a second ammendment supporter and I find the "I'm just standing up for my 2nd ammendment rights" to be a silly argument as well. Geocaching is not a place for political protesting as far as I'm concerned. There are so many better places to try to defend your freedoms...

 

I actually knew someone who said the only reason he didn't cache is because he didn't want to be "censored" by what he could put in a cache. Really? Censored?

[+GeoGeeBee]

I am a second ammendment supporter and I find the "I'm just standing up for my 2nd ammendment rights" to be a silly argument as well.

 

Has anyone actually made that argument in this thread? If so, I must have missed it.

 

Personally, I think that "Because it's against the rules" is a perfectly valid reason for not putting ammo in a cache. I wouldn't do it. If I see ammo in a cache, I'll remove it.

 

I think some people may have mistaken my position as arguing that it should be OK to put ammo in a cache. I never said that. I just said that it's silly for people to get so worked up about it.

[+roziecakes]

I am a second ammendment supporter and I find the "I'm just standing up for my 2nd ammendment rights" to be a silly argument as well.

 

Has anyone actually made that argument in this thread? If so, I must have missed it.

 

 

Oh no, I didn't say that; I just said that if that were the argument I would find it ridiculous.

[+ohmerfam]

The argument that guns/ammo should only be handled by trained adults - (the "against the rules" argument notwithstanding) - is reason enough to NOT leave any ammo lying around ANYWHERE

[Andronicus]

How many times can everyone say that ammo shouldn't be in a cache? I think I have said it about 5 times in this thread. So has everyone else. What are we debating again? Oh ya, no one is debating anything. We are all stating that ammo should be in a cache.

 

Then there is all the side topic....

 

PS if you feel that you must not be Censored when geocaching, carry the ammo or gun with you on the road/trail (just make sure you are following all the applicable laws). Don't put guns or ammo in the cache.

 

PPS One time when doing a 4.5h hike in bear country, I debated bringing my shotgun with me. In the end I decided that it was too heavy, and the rancher whos land I was going to cross (with permishen) probably would not have appriciated it (as it was not hunting season). I opted to strap on my large hunting knife, and make sure to make noise during the entire hike. I didn't leave any ammo in the cache (it was a virtual anyway, so I couldn't have even if I wanted to).

[+va griz]

If you feel that leaving ammo in geocaches is a good idea, please provide arguments other than "because I want to" or "I'm standing up for my Second Amendment rights".

 

Maybe you were being chased by bigfoot or zombies and had run out of ammo . You knew there was a cache just a couple steps down the trail. You reach it and pop it open hoping to find at least one more round that will chamber in your gun . And miracle of miracles, right on top of the swag is......a log book so you can record your demise at the hands of .... Oh wait, you asked for a good reason. Never mind, nothing to see here.

[+wimseyguy]

HI, long time lurker, first time poster etc... Nice to meet you all.

I thought I'd crawl out of the woodwork to post a true story that might provide some food for thought on this subject.

The very first cache I ever found with a GPS, long ago, and far away. Contained 4000 rnds of ammo, 12 lbs. of C-4, and various support equipment. I can tell you that I was quite happy to find it at the time. As it allowed me to continue doing my job. I.E. Killing People! Ofcourse that was back when only the COOL KIDS had GPS, and we all caried weapons!

The moral of the story for those who Who need an extra clue, is that The GPS that we all use for fun and games is infact a military weapons system in and of itself.

So. If you're opposed to ammunition for "moral reasons" How do you justify playing games with technology originally designed to enhance A military weapons?

 

Edited for spelling; Now with 14% less snark.

 

Fixed it for ya.

 

If you feel that leaving ammo in geocaches is a good idea, please provide arguments other than "because I want to" or "I'm standing up for my Second Amendment rights".

 

Maybe you were being chased by bigfoot or zombies and had run out of ammo . You knew there was a cache just a couple steps down the trail. You reach it and pop it open hoping to find at least one more round that will chamber in your gun . And miracle of miracles, right on top of the swag is......a log book so you can record your demise at the hands of .... Oh wait, you asked for a good reason. Never mind, nothing to see here.

 

If the zombies are still in the graveyards and you are out of ammo, you could always just run to the local pharmacy to get some Robitussin. At least it will stop the coffin.

[lefthandforge]

HI, long time lurker, first time poster etc... Nice to meet you all.

I thought I'd crawl out of the woodwork to post a true story that might provide some food for thought on this subject.

The very first cache I ever found with a GPS, long ago, and far away. Contained 4000 rnds of ammo, 12 lbs. of C-4, and various support equipment. I can tell you that I was quite happy to find it at the time. As it allowed me to continue doing my job. I.E. Killing People! Ofcourse that was back when only the COOL KIDS had GPS, and we all caried weapons!

The moral of the story for those who Who need an extra clue, is that The GPS that we all use for fun and games is infact a military weapons system in and of itself.

So. If you're opposed to ammunition for "moral reasons" How do you justify playing games with technology originally designed to enhance A military weapons?

 

Edited for spelling; Now with 14% less snark.

 

Fixed it for ya.

 

Thanks for playing. I appreciate that you think you know what your talking about, but the statement was correct originally.

[lefthandforge]

HI, long time lurker, first time poster etc... Nice to meet you all.

I thought I'd crawl out of the woodwork to post a true story that might provide some food for thought on this subject.

The very first cache I ever found with a GPS, long ago, and far away. Contained 4000 rnds of ammo, 12 lbs. of C-4, and various support equipment. I can tell you that I was quite happy to find it at the time. As it allowed me to continue doing my job. I.E. Killing People! Ofcourse that was back when only the COOL KIDS had GPS, and we all caried weapons!

The moral of the story for those who Who need an extra clue, is that The GPS that we all use for fun and games is infact a military weapons system in and of itself.

So. If you're opposed to ammunition for "moral reasons" How do you justify playing games with technology originally designed to enhance A military weapons?

 

Edited for spelling; Now with 14% less snark.

 

Fixed it for ya.

 

Thanks for playing. I appreciate that you think you know what your talking about, but the statement was correct originally.

[+thedeadpirate]

How do you justify playing games with technology originally designed to enhance A military weapons?

 

Fixed it for ya.

I'm pretty sure the original is correct. Although we're are allowed to use their system for civilian use, I'm pretty sure the GPS is still used to guide weapons. Therefore, it remains a military weapon system.

Edited May 19, 2010 by GeoBain

[+ohmerfam]

hoo boy

[frogman911]

I'm new to this, but I'm thinking if you feel you have to put a round into a cache for your "signature" why not just make it the bullet end or the brass case that's been fired? Some of the lead bullets these days are actually pretty cool looking with plastic tips on them. Make a good item to collect or pass on I would think...?

[lefthandforge]

How do you justify playing games with technology originally designed to enhance A military weapons?

 

Fixed it for ya.

I'm pretty sure the original is correct. Although we're are allowed to use their system for civilian use, I'm pretty sure the GPS is still used to guide weapons. Therefore, it remains a military weapon system.

 

[+Chokecherry]

So getting back to condoms in the caches...

[+thedeadpirate]

So getting back to condoms in the caches...

I don't understand why people are so against empty water balloons.

 

*** The tongue sticking out emoticon should serve to impart the jest inferred in this post of dubious nature.

[lefthandforge]

Or better yet staying on the much more interesting subject of how someone who is "morally" opposed to bullets justifies the hypocrasy of using an active military weapons system for a toy.

Edited May 19, 2010 by lefthandforge

[+ohmerfam]

Yeah ... right.

[+Chokecherry]

So getting back to condoms in the caches...

I don't understand why people are so against empty water balloons.

 

*** The tongue sticking out emoticon should serve to impart the jest inferred in this post of dubious nature.

 

Shoot no kidding and they come in big sizes too. The more condoms the merrier.

[+thedeadpirate]

I guess I need to read back through the last 4 pages. I must have missed the morality issue.

 

*** This post conveys my ignorance of the last fork in the topic.

[Motorcycle_Mama]

Oy! We are not discussing morality nor religion.

 

Those that wish to discuss those topics are free to do so via the mechanisms provided for those topics.

[carrie12]

I am reading this thread from a link given in another thread. OK now that I got that out; I also found a live round in a cache. Today I opened a cache and dumped out the contents, a plastic ring, lizard (fake), log, pencil, no geocoin as stated in the inventory (thats a whole separate issue), rocks with names wrote on them with a sharpie (WTF?), and a .22 short rim fire round. Not real dangerous but a kid and a hammer could find themselves in a little trouble. Heck even someone shaking this cache could have set it off, the rocks hitting a rim fire shell casing at just the right, well you get it. I disposed of it when I got home, threw it in the burn pit out back, lol. No I stuck it in a half shot box of rounds. I find it odd that someone would leave a bullet in a cache, heck I found the rocks with names from a sharpie on them odd!

[knowschad]

I am reading this thread from a link given in another thread. OK now that I got that out; I also found a live round in a cache. Today I opened a cache and dumped out the contents, a plastic ring, lizard (fake), log, pencil, no geocoin as stated in the inventory (thats a whole separate issue), rocks with names wrote on them with a sharpie (WTF?), and a .22 short rim fire round. Not real dangerous but a kid and a hammer could find themselves in a little trouble. Heck even someone shaking this cache could have set it off, the rocks hitting a rim fire shell casing at just the right, well you get it. I disposed of it when I got home, threw it in the burn pit out back, lol. No I stuck it in a half shot box of rounds. I find it odd that someone would leave a bullet in a cache, heck I found the rocks with names from a sharpie on them odd!

The rocks with the names on were almost certainly "signature items". Yeah... maybe not the best you will ever find, but I suspect that was the intent. The bullet was either left by a rank newbie, or possibly a muggle. No experienced cacher that I know of would leave something like that in a cache.

 

That said, a .22 caliber bullet in a cache is relatively harmless. Without the compression of a firing chamber and the guidance system of a barrel, what you have is pretty much a fire cracker. The lightweight brass of the shell is what is going to be the most serious part, if it did go off at all. Yeah, that could hurt, could even cause blindness, but nobody is gonna get shot.

[+brslk]

I am reading this thread from a link given in another thread. OK now that I got that out; I also found a live round in a cache. Today I opened a cache and dumped out the contents, a plastic ring, lizard (fake), log, pencil, no geocoin as stated in the inventory (thats a whole separate issue), rocks with names wrote on them with a sharpie (WTF?), and a .22 short rim fire round. Not real dangerous but a kid and a hammer could find themselves in a little trouble. Heck even someone shaking this cache could have set it off, the rocks hitting a rim fire shell casing at just the right, well you get it. I disposed of it when I got home, threw it in the burn pit out back, lol. No I stuck it in a half shot box of rounds. I find it odd that someone would leave a bullet in a cache, heck I found the rocks with names from a sharpie on them odd!

The rocks with the names on were almost certainly "signature items". Yeah... maybe not the best you will ever find, but I suspect that was the intent. The bullet was either left by a rank newbie, or possibly a muggle. No experienced cacher that I know of would leave something like that in a cache.

 

That said, a .22 caliber bullet in a cache is relatively harmless. Without the compression of a firing chamber and the guidance system of a barrel, what you have is pretty much a fire cracker. The lightweight brass of the shell is what is going to be the most serious part, if it did go off at all. Yeah, that could hurt, could even cause blindness, but nobody is gonna get shot.

 

Oh come on! in your opinion a .22 caliber bullet is relatively harmless and you say it is pretty much a firecracker???

 

Are firecrackers OK or not?

 

(sorry... I had to call you on this)

[knowschad]

I am reading this thread from a link given in another thread. OK now that I got that out; I also found a live round in a cache. Today I opened a cache and dumped out the contents, a plastic ring, lizard (fake), log, pencil, no geocoin as stated in the inventory (thats a whole separate issue), rocks with names wrote on them with a sharpie (WTF?), and a .22 short rim fire round. Not real dangerous but a kid and a hammer could find themselves in a little trouble. Heck even someone shaking this cache could have set it off, the rocks hitting a rim fire shell casing at just the right, well you get it. I disposed of it when I got home, threw it in the burn pit out back, lol. No I stuck it in a half shot box of rounds. I find it odd that someone would leave a bullet in a cache, heck I found the rocks with names from a sharpie on them odd!

The rocks with the names on were almost certainly "signature items". Yeah... maybe not the best you will ever find, but I suspect that was the intent. The bullet was either left by a rank newbie, or possibly a muggle. No experienced cacher that I know of would leave something like that in a cache.

 

That said, a .22 caliber bullet in a cache is relatively harmless. Without the compression of a firing chamber and the guidance system of a barrel, what you have is pretty much a fire cracker. The lightweight brass of the shell is what is going to be the most serious part, if it did go off at all. Yeah, that could hurt, could even cause blindness, but nobody is gonna get shot.

 

Oh come on! in your opinion a .22 caliber bullet is relatively harmless and you say it is pretty much a firecracker???

 

Are firecrackers OK or not?

 

(sorry... I had to call you on this)

You're trolling. I never said (nor do I think) that either is harmful. I said that both are against the guidelines.

[+thedeadpirate]

My apologies. I was positive this thread had been locked. I really didn't mean to open this can of worms again.

[+brslk]

My apologies. I was positive this thread had been locked. I really didn't mean to open this can of worms again.

 

I blame you for all the things wrong in my life.

[+thedeadpirate]

My apologies. I was positive this thread had been locked. I really didn't mean to open this can of worms again.

 

I blame you for all the things wrong in my life.

 

95% of the time you're probably correct to do so.

[carrie12]

I am reading this thread from a link given in another thread. OK now that I got that out; I also found a live round in a cache. Today I opened a cache and dumped out the contents, a plastic ring, lizard (fake), log, pencil, no geocoin as stated in the inventory (thats a whole separate issue), rocks with names wrote on them with a sharpie (WTF?), and a .22 short rim fire round. Not real dangerous but a kid and a hammer could find themselves in a little trouble. Heck even someone shaking this cache could have set it off, the rocks hitting a rim fire shell casing at just the right, well you get it. I disposed of it when I got home, threw it in the burn pit out back, lol. No I stuck it in a half shot box of rounds. I find it odd that someone would leave a bullet in a cache, heck I found the rocks with names from a sharpie on them odd!

The rocks with the names on were almost certainly "signature items". Yeah... maybe not the best you will ever find, but I suspect that was the intent. The bullet was either left by a rank newbie, or possibly a muggle. No experienced cacher that I know of would leave something like that in a cache.

 

That said, a .22 caliber bullet in a cache is relatively harmless. Without the compression of a firing chamber and the guidance system of a barrel, what you have is pretty much a fire cracker. The lightweight brass of the shell is what is going to be the most serious part, if it did go off at all. Yeah, that could hurt, could even cause blindness, but nobody is gonna get shot.

 

LOL well the cache was right next to some railroad tracks. The rocks in question were rocks from the railroad tracks as well! Can you say Cheesy! lol

[+jrou111]

Look under this section:

 

What should not be placed in a cache?

 

Explosives, ammunition, knives, drugs and alcohol should not be placed in a cache. Respect the local laws.

 

Where does it say prohibited? It says should. Should implies a guideline but is not implicit or explicit. I personally would never leave primed ammo in a cache, but I have no problem with someone leaving ammo in a cache. You can't spend your life worrying about whether someone is going to follow the rules or not. Personally, I'd love to find a box of ammo in a cache. Ammo is expensive! I'd pull the bullets on a few random rounds and then recrimp them and use them at the range.

 

What about snap caps? Does that still strike fear in the holophobes? That'd be a cool piece of swag to leave.find.

Edited July 13, 2010 by jrou111

[+Castle Mischief]

Look under this section:

 

What should not be placed in a cache?

 

Explosives, ammunition, knives, drugs and alcohol should not be placed in a cache. Respect the local laws.

 

Where does it say prohibited? It says should. Should implies a guideline but is not implicit or explicit. I personally would never leave primed ammo in a cache, but I have no problem with someone leaving ammo in a cache. You can't spend your life worrying about whether someone is going to follow the rules or not. Personally, I'd love to find a box of ammo in a cache. Ammo is expensive! I'd pull the bullets on a few random rounds and then recrimp them and use them at the range.

 

What about snap caps? Does that still strike fear in the holophobes? That'd be a cool piece of swag to leave.find.

 

Actually it says "should not". It has nothing if anything to do with safety and much, much more to do with the perception of land owners and managers in areas where we would like to place caches but can't.

 

It also has to do with local laws in some areas and, to some lesser degree, with the perception of whoever finds it and how they react to it. For the same reasons there should be no knives or fireworks/firecrackers.

 

You're barking up the wrong holophobic tree.

Edited July 13, 2010 by Castle Mischief

[+jrou111]

Look under this section:

 

What should not be placed in a cache?

 

Explosives, ammunition, knives, drugs and alcohol should not be placed in a cache. Respect the local laws.

 

Where does it say prohibited? It says should. Should implies a guideline but is not implicit or explicit. I personally would never leave primed ammo in a cache, but I have no problem with someone leaving ammo in a cache. You can't spend your life worrying about whether someone is going to follow the rules or not. Personally, I'd love to find a box of ammo in a cache. Ammo is expensive! I'd pull the bullets on a few random rounds and then recrimp them and use them at the range.

 

What about snap caps? Does that still strike fear in the holophobes? That'd be a cool piece of swag to leave.find.

 

Actually it says "should not". It has nothing if anything to do with safety and much, much more to do with the perception of land owners and managers in areas where we would like to place caches but can't.

 

It also has to do with local laws in some areas and, to some lesser degree, with the perception of whoever finds it and how they react to it. For the same reasons there should be no knives or fireworks/firecrackers.

 

You're barking up the wrong holophobic tree.

 

So you aren't scared of a snap cap then?

 

So you're saying that it's not about the safety aspect, but more about land owners' perceptions and local laws? Well then I could hide a cache at the local WMA shooting range (behind the line) which has dozens if not hundreds of leftover .22lr rounds laying around. And since they have no problems with caches or with ammo in caches it's okay? After all "should not" is not the same as "do not."

 

We "should not" place a cache every 528 feet just because it's possible, but the rules don't say "do not".

[+Castle Mischief]

 

So you aren't scared of a snap cap then?

 

So you're saying that it's not about the safety aspect, but more about land owners' perceptions and local laws? Well then I could hide a cache at the local WMA shooting range (behind the line) which has dozens if not hundreds of leftover .22lr rounds laying around. And since they have no problems with caches or with ammo in caches it's okay? After all "should not" is not the same as "do not."

 

 

You're still missing the point. It's not about the perception of landowner of your WMA shooting range, it's the perception of the landowners at other places- just like the "no digging" part of the guidelines.

 

Tell you what. Tell your local reviewer that you're going to start leaving live ammo as swag. See how they respond to it. Ask them about your idea to place one on the firing range while you're at it.

 

We "should not" place a cache every 528 feet just because it's possible, but the rules don't say "do not".

 

The "cache every 528 feet just because" portion of the rules were taken out not that long ago to make way for power trails. The guidelines don't say anything about this now.

 

What they do ask is that you use common sense- leaving live rounds in a cache is not using common sense.

Edited July 13, 2010 by Castle Mischief

[+thedeadpirate]

The "cache every 528 feet just because" portion of the rules were taken out not that long ago to make way for power trails. The guidelines don't say anything about this now.

 

They're still very much there and actually say 600'.

 

Please don't hide a cache every 600 feet just because you can.

 

Unfortunately, he does kind of have a point.

[I!]

The "cache every 528 feet just because" portion of the rules were taken out not that long ago to make way for power trails. The guidelines don't say anything about this now.

Yes they do ...

Cache Saturation

Cache containers and physical stages should generally be separated by a minimum of 0.1 miles (528 feet or 161 m).

I used this guideline recently to discover a cache before it was published for a CITO event on a cache-saturated hill

[+Castle Mischief]

Holy crap. They changed the guidelines again.

 

Shortly before the power trail craze, the "because you can" was taken out. Now it's back in. Yay.

 

 

Cache containers and physical stages should generally be separated by a minimum of 0.1 miles (528 feet or 161 m). A physical stage is defined as any stage that contains a physical element placed by the geocache owner, such as a tag with the next set of coordinates or a container. Non-physical caches or stages including reference points, trailhead/parking coordinates and question to answer waypoints are exempt from this guideline.

 

Additionally, within a single multi-cache or mystery/puzzle cache, there is no minimum required distance between physical elements.

 

Please don't hide a cache every 600 feet just because you can. The ultimate goals of the saturation guideline are to encourage you to seek out new places to hide caches rather than putting them in areas where caches already exist and to limit the number of caches hidden in a particular area, especially by the same hider. Groundspeak may further restrict cache listings in areas where cache saturation becomes a concern.

[+jrou111]

 

So you aren't scared of a snap cap then?

 

So you're saying that it's not about the safety aspect, but more about land owners' perceptions and local laws? Well then I could hide a cache at the local WMA shooting range (behind the line) which has dozens if not hundreds of leftover .22lr rounds laying around. And since they have no problems with caches or with ammo in caches it's okay? After all "should not" is not the same as "do not."

 

 

You're still missing the point. It's not about the perception of landowner of your WMA shooting range, it's the perception of the landowners at other places- just like the "no digging" part of the guidelines.

 

Tell you what. Tell your local reviewer that you're going to start leaving live ammo as swag. See how they respond to it. Ask them about your idea to place one on the firing range while you're at it.

 

We "should not" place a cache every 528 feet just because it's possible, but the rules don't say "do not".

 

The "cache every 528 feet just because" portion of the rules were taken out not that long ago to make way for power trails. The guidelines don't say anything about this now.

 

There's a heaping bunch of things the guidelines don't tell you not to do. You can't argue a negative.

 

What they do ask is that you use common sense- leaving live rounds in a cache is not using common sense.

 

I already stated I wasn't going to put ammo in as swag, obviously you didn't read that. There are several caches at ranges in AL and there will likely be more.

 

Digging is destructive to the land the cache is on. Especially if xx number of cachers start digging in random spots blindly trying to find GZ.

 

http://www.geocaching.com/about/guidelines.aspx#sat states "Please don't hide every 600 feet just because you can." It's there right now, are you saying "The guidelines don't say anything about this now"? Nevermind on this, looks like you corrected your post

 

You stated that hiding ammo in a cache isn't about safety, and it was more for the property owner, the perception (which at a range would be acceptable), and local laws (which there are none concerning this in most places). Then you said it was about "common sense". Please explain what you mean. Alot of the "common sense" laws don't make sense.

 

And you never did answer my question about snap caps.

Edited July 13, 2010 by jrou111

[+Castle Mischief]

I already stated I wasn't going to put ammo in as swag, obviously you didn't read that.

 

You're arguing that because of the vast world of difference between "do not" and "should not" that leaving ammo in a cache is acceptable. I asked you to bounce the idea off a reviewer. So you're arguing on a purely hypothetical basis. Fine. Bounce the idea off a reviewer- hypothetically and see what the response is.

 

There are several caches at ranges in AL and there will likely be more.

 

And are the containers full of live ammo? If they are then this swag is violating the guidelines. If the COs are stocking the containers with live ammo, then they should be reported to the reviewer.

 

Digging is destructive to the land the cache is on. Especially if xx number of cachers start digging in random spots blindly trying to find GZ.

 

You stated that hiding ammo in a cache isn't about safety, and it was more for the property owner, the perception (which at a range would be acceptable), and local laws (which there are none concerning this in most places). Then you said it was about "common sense". Please explain what you mean. Alot of the "common sense" laws don't make sense.

 

Still missing the point. Read up on the threads about digging on a cachers own property. Perception is the reason. It doesn't matter is a specific land owner is okay with it.

 

And you never did answer my question about snap caps.

 

It has nothing to do with me being "scared" of anything. It has to do with some very clear guidelines and the foolishness of trying to push the limits of the guidelines until they snap.

[+thedeadpirate]

Perception is the reason.

 

Perception is 90% of the guidelines. (the percentage is made up, but you get the idea)

[Andronicus]

I is not just the perseption of the land owner of your Ammo cache. It is so that every CO can say, hand over their heart, "No sir, there is never ammo in a cache" when the subject come up with any land owner.

[knowschad]

And you never did answer my question about snap caps.

Alright, then... I WILL!!!

 

I think these should be allowed. I see absolutely no problem with them!!

 

 

Nor with these Snap-Caps:

 

And actually, I guess I don't have a problem with the snap caps that you are referring to, either, although I do have a problem with the attitude that you are displaying about ammunition in a cache. I don't care if they said, "should not", or if they said "dude, you will be foreever banned if you do"... the intention and spirit of what the guidelines mean is glaringly obvious and you are simply being obstinate.

[+MR57]

Now that you mention it. I found 2 caches in a row with a 45cal live round in a pill container. Same owner of caches. I also thought why?

[+thedeadpirate]

I is not just the perseption of the land owner of your Ammo cache. It is so that every CO can say, hand over their heart, "No sir, there is never ammo in a cache" when the subject come up with any land owner.

 

Why would they want to say that if not to give the perception that there was no live ammo in caches?