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firennice

Requiring photos to log an Earthcache

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What's the saying? "The squeaky wheel gets the oil" I find the decision to allow her log to stand to be a poorly made one and a slap in the face of EC owners.

 

...and asking for a mod to delete her comments? Really? shameful. That would add insult to injury. I believe there is another saying, "you made the bed, sleep in it." The comments should stand as notice to all EC owners that if the finder is persistent enough about logging their cache and attacks the owner long enough then the log will be allowed to stand regardless of the accuracy of the answers provided.

 

Yet at the same time, allowing a little leniency in the first place would have gone a long way in resolving the issue right out of the gate.

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What's the saying? "The squeaky wheel gets the oil" I find the decision to allow her log to stand to be a poorly made one and a slap in the face of EC owners.

 

...and asking for a mod to delete her comments? Really? shameful. That would add insult to injury. I believe there is another saying, "you made the bed, sleep in it." The comments should stand as notice to all EC owners that if the finder is persistent enough about logging their cache and attacks the owner long enough then the log will be allowed to stand regardless of the accuracy of the answers provided.

 

Yet at the same time, allowing a little leniency in the first place would have gone a long way in resolving the issue right out of the gate.

 

Sorry, I was told by Geocaching.com that I "HAD" to let him/her log my cache no matter what! I still have the email that they sent me....

I agree about this whole thing being a slap in the face of all earthcache owners, the power to regulate our own caches has been taken out of our hands, now I am being told I MUST let people log my cache because they want to even though they DIDN'T meet the requirements!

Once again, GC.com has proven that they are a company that has lost sight of their bread and butter. Without the people placing caches this company and this game would not exist, simple as that!

Just for the record, I am not a "NEW" cacher, I have over 13000 finds and over 600 caches placed in the 7 years I have been playing this game. GC.com has lost one of the top 50 cachers in the world, go figure!

Edited by BackBrakeBilly

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This issue has been resolved to put a end to it, I received the revised answers which were MUCH closer to what I was asking for and I am happy with them. I have allowed the cachers log to stand since she made a effort to get the correct answers....

 

See, it was that easy to work out. I don't however see why she was nice in one post then attacked me again the next. I was trying to work this out with her the whole time and don't think I deserve the attack...

 

My thanks go out to all that saw my point on this issue.....

 

As for my 32 earthcaches I have placed, with what has happened here with this one I have come to a decision which is I will be archiving all of them very soon, they are just more trouble than they are worth...

 

Thanks again!

 

noooooooooo....think about it, for one "bad apple" to archive them?

there are many more cachers that will be "punished" if you archive them, cachers that have respect and appreciation for your effort and for what is to be learned from EC's

 

please reconsider your decision

 

 

 

...and asking for a mod to delete her comments? Really? shameful. That would add insult to injury. I believe there is another saying, "you made the bed, sleep in it." The comments should stand as notice to all EC owners that if the finder is persistent enough about logging their cache and attacks the owner long enough then the log will be allowed to stand regardless of the accuracy of the answers provided.

 

 

its exactly why you shouldn't let this one case get to you

 

i have no respect for anyone that can't think before posting and than can't own up to what they believe in, if they really do and its not just impulse reaction

 

it is shameful and sad

Edited by t4e

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I havent done any EC's yet (will be doing my first later today).

 

I understand the argument for a photo, I can also loosely understand the privacy issue of no photo.

 

For me, personally...I would submit a photo to prove to others that I have been there and the cache owner and I would do this not because it is required but out of choice. I think the CO deserves to see real proof and if they can go to the time and effort of setting one up then I can make the effort to upload a picture.

 

I think having the choice separates the genuine from the not, a genuine cacher will probably upload a picture, those that don't will probably be assumed to be armchair cachers.

 

Thats my take on the situation anyway!

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a genuine cacher will probably upload a picture, those that don't will probably be assumed to be armchair cachers.

And as a "genuine" cacher who has never armchaired, I would say you are wrong.

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a genuine cacher will probably upload a picture, those that don't will probably be assumed to be armchair cachers.

And as a "genuine" cacher who has never armchaired, I would say you are wrong.

 

I am not wrong, I was stating my opinion. An opinion is just that, therefore neither right or wrong.

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Question for everyone. How many EarthCache owners send out acknowledgment emails to those that have completed all necessary requirements to log a cache? Reason why I'm asking is that the old photo requirements I would have no issue that once I verified all requirements if a someone really had an issue of their image being out there that they could then delete the photo.

 

Still at this point I don't understand what the issue is with so many people being upset though with posting a photo at an EarthCache when you look at logs of them at other caches or events and they proudly post it there. And God forbid if you happen to be Facebook friends with them and you go to an event with them. You should see what they post there for the world to see. Just my take on the issue.

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I do not have a problem posting a photo of me at an EarthCache to prove that I was there. I just have a privacy issue with posting my face on the internet. I won't use Facebook, MySpace, ect. Other members of our team don't feel the same way as I do. We use one account as a family.

 

Behind the camera of Manville p h

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Question for everyone. How many EarthCache owners send out acknowledgment emails to those that have completed all necessary requirements to log a cache? Reason why I'm asking is that the old photo requirements I would have no issue that once I verified all requirements if a someone really had an issue of their image being out there that they could then delete the photo.

...........

 

I send a personal reply to each e-mail to congratulate the cacher on "qualifying" to log my EC and thanking them for having taken the trouble to visit my EC. After all, if they went to the trouble of visiting the EC and submitting the answers to my EC's then the least I can do is acknowledge it and thank them.

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Question for everyone. How many EarthCache owners send out acknowledgment emails to those that have completed all necessary requirements to log a cache?

 

For those that click the box to include their email address - each gets an email reply from me thanking them and I comment on their answers.

 

I agree with Cincol, it's the least I can do after they take the time to find and log my EarthCache.

 

Deane

AKA: DeRock & the Psychic Cacher - Grattan MI

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Same here everyone gets a follow up email from me.

 

I know I have always made it a practice to follow up with an email. However, I know I've done some where I have never received any response from the owner. Didn't know if this would be an alternative to those who had an issue to any photo's that once they received an acknowledgment then they deleted their photo. I know TPTB are saying something different at this point however, there are still some great EC's out there that are asking for photos.

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I try to respond to everyone, even if it's just to say "Glad you enjoyed it!" but sometimes people fall through the cracks. I don't expect people to wait for my approval to log.

 

I've deleted Earthcache logs twice. Once, it was because the cacher didn't really understand what was going on and thought that simply visiting the site was adequate. When I looked at his profile, I noticed he only had three finds so I sent him an email explaining how Earthcaches work. He was able to produce adequate answers so I let him re-log it.

 

The other time I deleted an Earthcache, it was because the answers I received were very vague and short, and a photographic requirement had not been fulfilled. I looked at their recent logs and there was no sign of them doing any other caching near the Earthcache, so I suspected armchair logging.

 

Before deleting the log, I wrote to the cacher to ask some follow up questions in lieu of the photograph. They never responded, so I deleted the log and didn't ever hear about it again.

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Question for everyone. How many EarthCache owners send out acknowledgment emails to those that have completed all necessary requirements to log a cache?

 

 

I reply to each one. Sometimes it takes a bit of time, but I send a reply. Generally, I close the email (after normally explaining one or two of the "wrong" answers that seem inevitable - perhaps I ask too difficult of questions? :) ) with something like "Please feel free to log this earthcache, and thank you for visiting!"

 

BTW, after the guidelines change, I published a new cache (and updated two previously published caches) with the following as a "requirement" -

 

Request, but not a requirement (and can be helpful if any answers for above question are incorrect): for additional verification to avoid armchair logs, please include with your online log a photo of your group with GPS at the cache location.

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Well, I own only one Earthcache, but I send out an email thanking them for visiting the site.

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Just as aside - to qualify for a 10th Anniv Event - one needs to have at least 10 participants and a photo needs to be posted on the site.

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Just as aside - to qualify for a 10th Anniv Event - one needs to have at least 10 participants and a photo needs to be posted on the site.

:laughing:

ya but that's like different....or somethin

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Is the requirement to have a photo posted not an ALR? :sad: Just asking. :)

It depends on who's requiring it I guess..

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Ah well, it's a shame that so many EarthCaches have to be archived... As I said, a simple letter like the one I posted above should be enough to convince them that 'learning has not occurred.'

 

Anyway, as Narcissa said, hopefully instead of archiving your caches, you can find somebody who would be willing to adopt them. I'd even take one or two if you'd like me to B) (I'd need the answers though :) ). The one about the Copper mine looks interesting!

I have done over 100 ECs and truly enjoyed each one of them. I've done a bunch of BackBrakeBilly's and Better Half's, and they have some of the best ECs in our state. And Yes, his Copper Mine Earthcache is great, very educational, and easy to complete.

 

Yes, I've had to do some actual research on a few earthcaches, and yeah, I've posted my old pudgy photo at these beautiful geological features. Holding your camera at arms length doesn't create a very attractive photo, but it does prove I was there. And BBB has always been quite understanding if my answers were a little bit off. I make an honest effort to answer his questions, and he gives me the benefit of the doubt.

 

For someone that wants to count a find without having met the requirements of the cache, then all there doing is racking up numbers. You know what, numbers don't impress me at all. I don't do earthcaches to boost my numbers. I visit earthcaches to learn, to see some incredible places, and in most situations, I have taken some great photos and had some wonderful experiences.

 

BBB, I sure hope you will continue to maintain your awesome earthcaches. You and Better Half have done a lot for geocaching in general, and for earthcache lovers specifically. It is a discredit to the rest of the geocachers who DO make the effort to log an earthcache honestly if we are forced to allow a cacher to log a bogus find. However, I would rather let a thousand bogus finds be recorded on one of my earthcaches than to have one legitimate cacher miss out on the fun and educational experience of visiting my earthcache.

 

Don't give in to the mental midgets that can't (or won't) try to complete the earthcache requirements. Delete the bogus logs, and if forced to accept them, then just chalk that up to bureaucratic ambivalence. But for every one of those bogus finds, I bet you get a dozen or more of correct emails and posted photos from geocachers that appreciated your efforts and enjoyed your caches.

 

I know I've enjoyed every one of your caches, and I sure hope I have an opporunity to visit the rest of them soon!

Edited by Lostnspace

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Don't give in to the mental midgets <snipped>

Not a bad overall post until the "foot in mouth" disease caught up to you. Just shot your whole argument right in the head. This has to be the most posted part of the forum guidelines...

Here are some things to keep in mind when posting:

 

1. Forum courtesy: Please treat Groundspeak, its employees, volunteers, fellow community members, and guests on these boards with courtesy and respect. Whether a community member has one post or 5,000 posts, they should be treated fairly.

 

3. Personal attacks and inflammatory behavior will not be tolerated. If you want to praise or criticize, give examples as to why it is good or bad. General attacks on a person or idea will not be tolerated.

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Definitive answer given to me from geocaching.com, received today.

 

I will post the thread, based on email to ammosuperman. I was inquiring concerning some of his caches and I wanted to follow up for a definitive answer. This is the thread and answer.

 

To: Ammosuperman

 

I am inquiring to the new photo requirements set by geocaching.com and earthcache.org, of which the photos you require on your earthcaches would be optional. I plan on traveling in Kentucky in a few weeks and see that several of your earthcaches is on my way. I consider posting a picture of myself a privacy issue. What photo will you accept now should I visit one of your earthcaches?

 

From: Ammosuperman

 

Photo requirements stand. All of ours were published before the new rules were established. If you do find one or all of ours feel free to post a picture of you with the GPS in front of your face, or just make it unique. We are just trying to eliminate to the trouble of one photograph being used by multiple persons, which has happened before. I suspect that answers and pictures are sometimes shared, and then ECs can be logged by unscrupulous cachers without ever visiting the site. Not saying that you would, but to keep it fair for everyone.

There are many EarthCaches in

Kentucky, Ohio, and Michigan where ours are, so happy hunting. Hope to see you on the trails sometime.

ASM

 

 

To: geocaching.com

 

Exactly what are the rules concerning logging of earthcaches? In the forums I have seen that all caches are included. Yet cache owners do not follow this logic. Obviously there still seems to be a major gap. Can you clarify with a point blank ruling?

 

I thought with the new rules I might be able to start doing earthcaches, but it looks not?

 

 

From: geocaching.com

 

Thank you for writing to us. Please check out the Earth Cache guidelines, listed here on our site:

 

Logging an EarthCache find requires compliance with the requirements stated by the owner and the EarthCache website, including answering the required questions by email to the owner, providing original photos if so requested, etc.

 

I hope this helps! Happy caching!

 

Bottomline, the photo requirements do not apply to older Earthcaches.

 

Just thought you would like to know. I'm not trying to get anything going again, but just wanted a answer which I got. This does support the CO and I would not support any CO from archiving their EC or giving up on them, as have been indicated. I've only have 3 Earthcaches and it did take some work in providing the answers and it was educational. But will not consider any more Earthcaches. Thanks for all or your hard work in developing them.

Edited by MarViDa

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Ah well, it's a shame that so many EarthCaches have to be archived... As I said, a simple letter like the one I posted above should be enough to convince them that 'learning has not occurred.'

 

Anyway, as Narcissa said, hopefully instead of archiving your caches, you can find somebody who would be willing to adopt them. I'd even take one or two if you'd like me to ;) (I'd need the answers though ;) ). The one about the Copper mine looks interesting!

I have done over 100 ECs and truly enjoyed each one of them. I've done a bunch of BackBrakeBilly's and Better Half's, and they have some of the best ECs in our state. And Yes, his Copper Mine Earthcache is great, very educational, and easy to complete.

 

Yes, I've had to do some actual research on a few earthcaches, and yeah, I've posted my old pudgy photo at these beautiful geological features. Holding your camera at arms length doesn't create a very attractive photo, but it does prove I was there. And BBB has always been quite understanding if my answers were a little bit off. I make an honest effort to answer his questions, and he gives me the benefit of the doubt.

 

For someone that wants to count a find without having met the requirements of the cache, then all there doing is racking up numbers. You know what, numbers don't impress me at all. I don't do earthcaches to boost my numbers. I visit earthcaches to learn, to see some incredible places, and in most situations, I have taken some great photos and had some wonderful experiences.

 

BBB, I sure hope you will continue to maintain your awesome earthcaches. You and Better Half have done a lot for geocaching in general, and for earthcache lovers specifically. It is a discredit to the rest of the geocachers who DO make the effort to log an earthcache honestly if we are forced to allow a cacher to log a bogus find. However, I would rather let a thousand bogus finds be recorded on one of my earthcaches than to have one legitimate cacher miss out on the fun and educational experience of visiting my earthcache.

 

Don't give in to the mental midgets those that can't (or won't) try to complete the earthcache requirements. Delete the bogus logs, and if forced to accept them, then just chalk that up to bureaucratic ambivalence. But for every one of those bogus finds, I bet you get a dozen or more of correct emails and posted photos from geocachers that appreciated your efforts and enjoyed your caches.

 

I know I've enjoyed every one of your caches, and I sure hope I have an opporunity to visit the rest of them soon!

Forgive the ignominious reference above, my apologies.

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Just thought you would like to know. I'm not trying to get anything going again, but just wanted a answer which I got. This does support the CO and I would not support any CO from archiving their EC or giving up on them, as have been indicated. I've only have 3 Earthcaches and it did take some work in providing the answers and it was educational. But will not consider any more Earthcaches. Thanks for all or your hard work in developing them.

 

I have removed photo requirements from my Earthcaches, not because I have to, but because I agree that an Earthcache's logging requirements should be rigorous enough that an "I was here" photo isn't necessary. I'm still thinking about new tasks to put on my Earthcaches to bring them up to standard.

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Not sure if this is the right thread but I would also like your opinion of cachers backdating Earthcaches to a date before it was published. That is: the cacher has been to the site but some 5 years before the earthcache was published.

 

I own the Earthcache Mt Kinabalu GC1B1K1 . Yesterday I had a relatively new cacher with less than 100 finds try to claim this cache. All the answers to the questions were wrong and he couldn't provide the photos that i requested. I explained that armchair caching was not acceptable and that i didn't accept backdated logs.

He replied and asked why his log was being deleted and then proceed to relog, three more times, the last with todays date. He seemed totally oblivious to the reason behind an earthcache, he just wanted the find ( its a 5/5) because he had been there at some point in his travels. :D

 

I don't believe this is in the spirit of geocaching. Am I being too harsh???? BUT what about all the cachers who have completed this the correct way, climbed the mountain and stopped to find the answers along the way???

 

Your opinions are welcome.

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Not sure if this is the right thread but I would also like your opinion of cachers backdating Earthcaches to a date before it was published. That is: the cacher has been to the site but some 5 years before the earthcache was published.

 

I own the Earthcache Mt Kinabalu GC1B1K1 . Yesterday I had a relatively new cacher with less than 100 finds try to claim this cache. All the answers to the questions were wrong and he couldn't provide the photos that i requested. I explained that armchair caching was not acceptable and that i didn't accept backdated logs.

He replied and asked why his log was being deleted and then proceed to relog, three more times, the last with todays date. He seemed totally oblivious to the reason behind an earthcache, he just wanted the find ( its a 5/5) because he had been there at some point in his travels. :D

 

I don't believe this is in the spirit of geocaching. Am I being too harsh???? BUT what about all the cachers who have completed this the correct way, climbed the mountain and stopped to find the answers along the way???

 

Your opinions are welcome.

 

Had a similar issue pop up yesterday. A wife of a cacher yesterday logged an EarthCache and back dated it to October. Said she was logging all caches found with her husband prior to getting her own caching name. When I checked yesterday she's been "active" with GC.com for less than a week and has over 1500 finds. There was no email to me with the required answers. The log stated that her husband sent the required answers at the time of their visit. Another photo was posted on the original log and I have no way to determine when it was uploaded. I don't keep everyone's emails once I verify the "find". So it is really up to you as the owner to make that determination.

 

What's frustrating to me on mine is that the wife's profile doesn't mention that she is logging caches found while being with her husband. So, based on that do I delete the find. However, her photo has mysteriously appeared on her husbands logged for the same date.

 

In your case I see it a little more simpler no photo, no email no find. Just my opinion.

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Not sure if this is the right thread but I would also like your opinion of cachers backdating Earthcaches to a date before it was published. That is: the cacher has been to the site but some 5 years before the earthcache was published.

 

All the answers to the questions were wrong and he couldn't provide the photos that i requested.

I think you have a simple case here because of the wrong questions and missing photo.

 

For virtuals and earthcaches, my feeling is that you need to visit the spot while geocaching, not take advantage of having visited the spot sometime in the past. I don't know if those are official rules, but since earthcaches are meant to provide some learning for the finder, it seems clear a new visit is required to learn something.

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Had a similar issue pop up yesterday. A wife of a cacher yesterday logged an EarthCache and back dated it to October. Said she was logging all caches found with her husband prior to getting her own caching name. When I checked yesterday she's been "active" with GC.com for less than a week and has over 1500 finds. There was no email to me with the required answers. The log stated that her husband sent the required answers at the time of their visit. Another photo was posted on the original log and I have no way to determine when it was uploaded. I don't keep everyone's emails once I verify the "find". So it is really up to you as the owner to make that determination.

 

What's frustrating to me on mine is that the wife's profile doesn't mention that she is logging caches found while being with her husband. So, based on that do I delete the find. However, her photo has mysteriously appeared on her husbands logged for the same date.

 

In your case I see it a little more simpler no photo, no email no find. Just my opinion.

 

My Earthcaches all say that I require unique answers from every account logging the find. Occasionally I get logs from people who ignore that, so I write to them and ask them for the required answers. If I don't get a response within a couple of days, I delete the log.

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Had a similar issue pop up yesterday. A wife of a cacher yesterday logged an EarthCache and back dated it to October. Said she was logging all caches found with her husband prior to getting her own caching name. When I checked yesterday she's been "active" with GC.com for less than a week and has over 1500 finds. There was no email to me with the required answers. The log stated that her husband sent the required answers at the time of their visit. Another photo was posted on the original log and I have no way to determine when it was uploaded. I don't keep everyone's emails once I verify the "find". So it is really up to you as the owner to make that determination.

 

What's frustrating to me on mine is that the wife's profile doesn't mention that she is logging caches found while being with her husband. So, based on that do I delete the find. However, her photo has mysteriously appeared on her husbands logged for the same date.

 

In your case I see it a little more simpler no photo, no email no find. Just my opinion.

 

My Earthcaches all say that I require unique answers from every account logging the find. Occasionally I get logs from people who ignore that, so I write to them and ask them for the required answers. If I don't get a response within a couple of days, I delete the log.

 

Didn't even think about that additional wording. That would make it easier than waiting for all the other logs to be posted.

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Of the 30 listings I put together I'd say I have 300 or more hours invested in the writing and development of my ECs...someone who cheats a log is essentially slapping me in the face in addition to disrespecting all the people (their peers) who made a legitimate find.

AMEN!!!!

And that goes for any cache that the owner has put some sort of challenge into. Finders who put more work into finding "the easy way" to get their name in a logbook, rather than do what the owner originally intended, ruin it for those of us who find as much joy in placing a good hide as finding one. Those people should just stick to LPCs, because obviously it's all about the numbers to them, and not the quality of the cache. I for one am all about placing quality caches, and several other names on this post are too. Please show your local hiders some respect, because when you run them off, you'll be doomed to cruise parking lots for your 1/1 sign only logs.

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I posted this on another posting but because I was replying to another cacher, I do believe it belongs here as well.

I recently contacted Groundspeak because I have also seen EC still with Photo of cachers ALRs on them and wanted to have an offical response about it. This is what I got:

 

Hi Jellis,

 

Many EarthCaches do still have the requirement to post a 'proof of being at the location' photograph, which is no longer allowed as of January this year. As cachers log these caches many cache owners are making the change to the new logging requirements. If we are made aware of any cache owners who are stubborn about allowing cachers to log the cache without photographic proof, we are contacting them individually. Simply, many do not know about the new guidelines. Also, a photographic requirement that is geologically significant can be required. A cache owner may not, however, require a photograph of the cacher at the location.Moving forward, you are able to ignore this particular logging requirement for EarthCaches that are not yet updated. If you have problems logging a particular cache, do not argue with the cache owner, appeal to Groundspeak. We are asking cachers not to seek out caches of this nature, nor to contact cache owners. There will be a naturally occurring attrition rate of this logging requirement.

 

Kind regards,

 

XXXXXXX

Volunteer Program

 

And Earthcache.org's website guideling #6 states:

Logging of an EarthCache must involve visitors undertaking some educational task that relates to the Earth science at the site. This could involve measuring or estimating the size of some feature or aspect of the site, collecting and recording data (such as time of a tidal bore), or sending an e-mail to the cache owner with the answer to Earth science related questions they obtained by reading an information display. While photographs may be requested, they do not take the place of other logging requirements. Taking a photograph alone or asking people to do internet research does NOT meet these logging guidelines. Requests for specific content in the photograph (must include the visitor's face, for example) will be considered an additional logging requirement and must be optional. Cache owners may not delete the cache seeker's log based solely on optional tasks

Edited by jellis

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My main question is: Why has earthcache.org dropped the face-photo requirement? Is it a new American law? Did adding a photo to an earth cache log take up to much space? Or is it perhaps without any reason?

 

It would be so nice if an “official” response of earthcache.org could enlighten us.

 

I hope you do not mind Jellis, that I copied this response into our Dutch geocaching forum. We have the same discussion in our country. And your response adds something new to the discussion. Summarizing several posts in this thread I conclude:

 

Earthcache.org has apparently changed the logging requirements for earth caches.

For proper logging of an earth cache it is not required anymore to add a picture.

All new submitted earth caches must follow these new logging requirements.

All old earth caches (submitted prior to January) must follow these new logging requirements.

In case of a dispute we should not contact the earth cache owner, but we must appeal directly at Groundspeak (?)

 

My opinion on earth caches?

To my opinion, nowadays there are too many earth caches placed at points with no geological interest at all.

To my opinion, dropping the face-photo-requirement highly stimulates couch caching.

To my opinion, earth caches have nothing to do with geocaching, since geocaching about finding and signing a logbook.

To my opinion, all earth caches should therefore be transferred from the geocache website to the Waymarking site.

 

Zilvervloot.

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My main question is: Why has earthcache.org dropped the face-photo requirement? Is it a new American law? Did adding a photo to an earth cache log take up to much space? Or is it perhaps without any reason?

 

Not an official answer, but I'll take a stab at it. I suspect there are three parts to the answer.

 

1. Geocaching is about using your GPS, not your camera. With a properly written set of Logging Requirements, there should be little reason for a photo requirement.

 

2. Since photo requirements are considered an Additional Logging Requirement on non-Earthcache Listings, this may have been an attempt to bring Earthcaches more in line with the Geocaching Guidelines to make the two types of submissions more consistent (a good thing I've heard :lol: ).

 

3. Not so much a "new American Law", but there may have been a perception that taking photos of people as a logging requirement was inconsistent with the following portion of the Terms of Use of the site:

 

(k) Collect or store personal data about other Site users.

 

Who knows, one of my answers might even be correct :grin:

 

Regarding....

 

My opinion on earth caches? ...

 

I'll respectfully disagree. I think Earthcaches are fine where they are. Besides there's a Waymark Category that filled the void when they returned to GC.

 

Just my 0.02

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Groundspeak if you notice in the email states to discourage armchair logging, is to pick something at the Earthcache site that you can't just Google Earth or look up on line. Maybe an information panel or a sign that has something to do with the area, a color of a rock formation specific to the spot. A chore they can do, such as to feel a rock, measurement of size of something there, flow rate. There is so much you can do. The only way they could log those is to be there or get it from another cacher who has, which means they are only cheating themselves from the whole point of the Earthcache.

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Earthcache <snip> I have to say that this is a HORRIBLE idea

 

Please, please, please, allow me to require a photo so I can quickly and easily prove if someone is cheating.

I removed some of your wording to make it more accurate. Earth caches are not geocaches and have no place in geocaching. They started this Waymarking stuff and should stick with it. Earthcaches = stupid. Not that it isn't interesting and everything, it's just not a geocache.

 

Cheating? That seems extreme. Anyone can play anyway they want. Since earthcaches aren't geocaches what difference does it make? What difference does it make anyway?

 

It's all good. Just have fun with it. Worrying about someone "cheating" doesn't seem like a lot of fun.

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I will beg to differ on a lot of the issues at stake here. Arm chair logging of EarthCaches is alive and well. In fact it is thriving. Finally fed up with it all I archive the four I had. My last one all the required answers were around the site or on the cache page. However, people were coming up with all sorts of other answers they googled then swore they were at the site because they didn't have to prove anymore because there is no more photographic evidence needed.

 

At the posted coordinates to this EarthCache there was a sign which stated the following "The 'U" shape of the rock layers (called a syncline) demonstrates the intense compression which folded these rocks about 240 million years ago. Subsequent erosion has shaped Sideling Hill into its present form because the white sandstone layer at the top of the ridge has resisted erosion."

 

The two bolded areas were answers to two of the questions. A chart on the cache page even showed the difference between a syncline and an anticline. It appears that upon the closure of the education center a website was created which posted some additional information and also some data can be found on other websites which gives an incorrect answer or an answer that is contrary to what I am looking for to layer of rock which resists erosion on this feature. Going back and forth with the finder and/or waiting for weeks at times for the emails to be sent finally led me to just say to forget about maintaining any EarthCache. It's not worth it anymore. The simple idea of a photograph of yourself at the location will prove you are there if for some reason you cannot provide a correct answer. Or, if there is some gray area regarding an answer. It will also prohibit the armchair caches.

 

It's very easy now for me to just say "Hey John for GCxxxx the elevation is 123 and ....." and all anyone has to do now is email the cache owner with the answers. Now honestly how can anyone prove that someone wasn't there? They can't it all has to do with honor and honesty and for those who want nothing but the numbers they are will log every EarthCache they can. Good luck maintaining your EarthCaches.

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I will beg to differ on a lot of the issues at stake here. Arm chair logging of EarthCaches is alive and well. In fact it is thriving. Finally fed up with it all I archive the four I had.

[Forgive me for quoting and bolding just the pertinent part of your post.] This is the most disturbing part of the entire earthcache debacle, and you are not the only one that has archived their earthcaches. I am one of those folks that absolutely love earthcaches, and I have met the requirements and physically been to each and every location. I have had some of my greatest geocaching experiences at earthcaches. I have gotten sunburns, bug bites & poison ivy, muddy boots and frozen extremities at some of these earthcaches, and I wouldn't want it any other way. That's what makes the achievement worthwhile, and armchair loggers, and those that are just trying to inflate their fradulent count are the real losers.

 

I have only created five earthcaches but I intend to create more. I want to give back to the earthcache community and creating new ECs is the best way to do it.

 

To those who have put in a lot of effort creating an earthcache and are getting frustrated with the few armchair loggers spamming their cache - Just ignore them. The loss is theirs. I will continue to post my ugly ol' face in a photo taken at each earthcache that I find and log. EC photos are one of the most enjoyable parts of each cacher's profile, and I proudly show off the places where I've been.

 

Thanks to each one of you that has created an earthcache, and a extra special thanks to those of you who will continue to keep your ECs active.

Edited by Lostnspace

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You can require a photograph in your logging requirement BUT only if:

 

1. You have a strong set of logging tasks that can only be done on site and not through an internet search.

2. The photograph is related to the site or logging task and

3. Any content not related to the site (face, dog, car etc) is OPTIONAL.

 

We have NEVER said photographs were not allowed.

 

So, if you have a STRONG logging tasks then...

 

If you ask 'Log a photograph of yourself at the site..." you will be asked to make it optional.

If you ask to log a picture of yourself or your GPS at the site" it will be fine - as people can opt for the GPS image.

 

I just want to point out (again) that the photo issue is included in the guideline for LOGGING and it is woven into that issue. It is NOT a separate issue - never has been, never will be. The complete words are :

 

Logging of an EarthCache must involve visitors undertaking some educational task that relates to the Earth science at the site. This could involve measuring or estimating the size of some feature or aspect of the site, collecting and recording data (such as time of a tidal bore), or sending an e-mail to the cache owner with the answer to Earth science related questions they obtained by reading an information display. While photographs may be requested, they do not take the place of other logging requirements. Taking a photograph alone or asking people to do internet research does NOT meet these logging guidelines. Requests for specific content in the photograph (must include the visitor's face, for example) will be considered an additional logging requirement and must be optional. Cache owners may not delete the cache seeker's log based solely on optional tasks.

 

Geoaware

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I just had one of my logs on an earthcache deleted without explanation. The earthcache itself says a photo is required or else, but according to my understanding of the guidelines it should be optional and not a reason to delete my log:

 

The cache page states: To get credit for this Earthcache email the answers to the questions below and post a picture of you and your GPSr with the ripple marks in the background. Failure to answer the questions or logs with no pictures will result in the log being deleted.

 

I have emailed the cache owner but have not gotten a reply yet. I relogged and added pics, but we did not take any pics with the GPS in it.

 

Did\does the earthcache owner have the right to delete my log?

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Did\does the earthcache owner have the right to delete my log?

 

 

"Requests for specific content in the photograph (must include the visitor's face, for example) will be considered an additional logging requirement and must be optional. Cache owners may not delete the cache seeker's log based solely on optional tasks.

Geoaware" - above

 

The log will be reinstated if you appeal to the right person...not sure who that is. (Which is one reason I skip ECs that threaten impermissable deletions.)

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Did\does the earthcache owner have the right to delete my log?

 

Further reading of a rather generic, catch all answer to your question from the KB:

 

Log Deletion

 

Basically boils down to whether you want to turn the other cheek, so to speak:

 

We know that sometimes this issue can be contentious. If the other party is being stubborn, ask yourself, "Is this dispute really worth my time?" Try being the bigger person and conceding the point. You may discover that you feel better for doing so. At the very least, it will put the matter quickly behind you.

 

...or if you prefer to grind that particular axe:

 

If you are a geocacher and you believe that your log was deleted in error, you will have politely emailed the cache owner requesting that the log be reinstated. If you require further assistance, please email contact@geocaching.com.

 

Best of luck.

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Since the issue of photos in EC logs keeps coming up in unrelated threads, I'm bumping this thread.

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