Zilvervloot

Tja, ik vind die actie van de reviewers compleet overbodig. Ik heb vaker in de listing gezien dat een nitwit uit onwetendheid in een grijs verleden ooit eens een “needs maintenance” log heeft geplaatst waardoor nu na zoveel maanden de poppen aan het dansen zijn geraakt. Er zijn twee opties: Als de cache het nog prima doet. Dan stel ik stel voor om hem vrolijk te laten liggen. Mocht je je echt heel erg ergeren aan dat rode kruis, probeer dan de cache eigenaar te pakken te krijgen. Lukt dat ook niet, maak dan zelf exact dezelfde cache aan als degene die zo voortvarend door de reviewers is gearchiveerd. Niet opruimen dus, maar zelf die administratieve actie ondernemen. ’t Wordt anders als de cache het niet meer doet. Als hij weg is of zo. Gelukkig hoef je als cachende buitenstaander dan geen actie te ondernemen. Want cache weg & cachebeschrijving gearchiveerd lokt toch nooit een cacher naar de stash area. Maar, hoe het functioneren van een door reviewers gearchiveerde cache dan ook is, ik zie niet in waarom het nodig is om met een stel medecachers op pad te gaan om prima functionerende caches te verwijderen. Zilvervloot.

Ik ben in tegenstelling tot de teneur hier in dit draadje helemaal niet zo blij met deze opschoonactie van de reviewer Greensprouts. Heel veel prachtige caches waar helemaal niets mis mee is, dreigen nu zomaar enkel omdat er een onnozel administratief dingetje verkeerd staat, gearchiveerd te worden. Dat is verschrikkelijk jammer. Het kind dreigt met het badwater weggegooid te worden. Kijk bijvoorbeeld maar eens naar deze cache Amsterdam Urban 1 De oudste en waarschijnlijk de meest gevonden cache van Nederland. Een onverlet heeft daar omdat hij de cache niet kon vinden plompverloren een needs maineancance logje plaatst. Dat is overigens in de meer dan 11 jaar dat deze cache bestaat maar 5 maal gebeurd. En er helemaal niets mis met de cache. Ik vind dat als de reviewers dan toch handmatig alle caches langslopen die op de schopstoel staan, dat ze de geocache gemeenschap veel beter kunnen dienen door zelf maar dat domme “zwitserse kruis” terug te zetten. Zilvervloot. Vanzelfsprekend verwacht ik van Barny het roerend met me eens is. Hij zou tenslotte ook graag willen voorkomen dat weer een icoon van ’s Neerlands cachepopulatie door een nare administratieve onnozelheid wordt gearchiveerd. Tenminste, dat is hij moreel wel een beetje verplicht, na dat wij ons allen massaal hebben ingespannen om zijn gele bus voor het geocachend nageslacht te behouden.

Nee, dat kan niet. Je kan niet per plaats zien welke cachers daar wonen. Omwille van de privacy is dat maar goed ook dat dat kan. Mensen die dat niet uitmaakt; kunnen een plaatsnaam in hun profiel zetten. Maar dat is geen garantie dat ze echt in die vermelde plaats wonen. Wat wel kan is in jouw woonplaats kijken wie er caches hebben geplaatst. De kans is dan groot dat die cachers in de buurt wonen. Ben je echter op zoek naar medecachers uit de regio om eens samen op stap te gaan. Plaats dan een berichtje op het Nederlandse forum, die wordt druk bezocht. Zilvervloot.

I could not find anything appropriate on this forum to this topic so I opened a new thread. That is the rule. It is forbidden to have the name of a business in the cache description. That’s crystal clear But is it allowed to refer to a commercial business in a note (or a Found-log, DNF, etc.)? I ask this question since one of my caches was some time ago denied. A magazine interviewed me and made a nice article about geocaching in general. Inspired by the cooperation, I made a nice multi-cache through the historic center of Amsterdam. We agreed upon a small contest; the one who wrote the best log could win a bike provided by this magazine. And, as soon as my cache was publicized, they would link it at their website/blog/etc. My initial hurdle in the approval process was that I left the name of the magazine in the cache description. It’s clear why my cache was denied. This was a typical referral to a commercial business. So I deleted everything that referred to the magazine from the description and added a note explaining the bike-contest. My cache was also denied. Sure in the note was the name of the magazine. But I always believed that everything written down in a log/note/etc. is not subjected to a guideline (perhaps good taste). I do think my local reviewers are exceptionally good. They know when to be strict and when to be loose in applying the guidelines and they did refer me to the appeals@geocaching.com for a second, final opinion. But, in the end I did not have the desire to publish the cache anymore, I withdrew it. Maybe I will publish it someday at one of the competitor-geocache-sites, maybe not. I kept the bike for my selves. So the question is, is it allowed to make commercial referrals in a note or log? Zilvervloot.

My main question is: Why has earthcache.org dropped the face-photo requirement? Is it a new American law? Did adding a photo to an earth cache log take up to much space? Or is it perhaps without any reason? It would be so nice if an “official” response of earthcache.org could enlighten us. I hope you do not mind Jellis, that I copied this response into our Dutch geocaching forum. We have the same discussion in our country. And your response adds something new to the discussion. Summarizing several posts in this thread I conclude: Earthcache.org has apparently changed the logging requirements for earth caches. For proper logging of an earth cache it is not required anymore to add a picture. All new submitted earth caches must follow these new logging requirements. All old earth caches (submitted prior to January) must follow these new logging requirements. In case of a dispute we should not contact the earth cache owner, but we must appeal directly at Groundspeak (?) My opinion on earth caches? To my opinion, nowadays there are too many earth caches placed at points with no geological interest at all. To my opinion, dropping the face-photo-requirement highly stimulates couch caching. To my opinion, earth caches have nothing to do with geocaching, since geocaching about finding and signing a logbook. To my opinion, all earth caches should therefore be transferred from the geocache website to the Waymarking site. Zilvervloot.

Ik snap er helemaal niets meer van. Ik ben de draad van dit draadje helemaal kwijt. Het zou toch moeten gaan over de samenwerking tussen diverse geocache sites? Ik ben als volger van (de vele) draadjes van het op zich positieve samenwerken nu helemaal verzand in dit onderlinge incrowd geneuzel waar men elkaar door onderlinge kift, voortdurend zit af te katten. Wellicht zwam ik nu in een lege ruimte, maar het is (in dit draadje) compleet oninteressant wie waarom nu weer een ban op welke site heeft gekregen. Het laatste bericht wat, naar mijn mening relevant is, is van irisisleuk. De vraag die zij (?) oppert is ook de mijne, gaat men nog door met samenwerking? Zilvervloot.

Interresant om met deze heer gedachten te wisselen. Mooi om te merken dat Groundspeak een luisterend oor heeft en gelukkig door heeft dat de wereld groter is dan enkel Amerika. Ieder van globalcaching, pluim voor dit goede initiatief! Ik weet helaas nog niet zeker of ik er de 23e bij zal zijn. Ik neem aan dat het uurtje met Bryan in Nederlandse tijd is. Zilvervloot.

Sunday the 31th of May i lost my GPS r, a Garmin 60CX, at the cache “A live well lived enjoying all the pasta” N18 01.974 W063 05.358 which is at Simpson Bay, Sint Maarten. Even do its stupid of me to leave it at the stash area I hope someone found it and will return it to me. You can reach me through my profile (zilvervloot@gmail.com). Zilvervloot.

As long as it fits, you can put the travel bug in any cache. It is not necessary to put it in a motel/hotel. You can even put the travel bug back in the cache where you found it. Zilvervloot.

Sure he is, but I'm too hoping he reads this conversation. Bringing this feature to life would be a major improvement! Perhaps it could start with only a few countries? Zilvervloot.

Is there a bookmark with a list of travel bug hotels, which have an unwanted trading rule? Zilvervloot.

If the organization of the Jeeps of 2007 is the same as last year then you can, to my opinion, distinguish three different components: 1 The picture contest 2 The local availability of the new Jeep 3 The global journey of a travel bug 1 Last year, the picture contest was a local thing for US-members. Due to the impossibility of adjusting (200?) different competition regulations, it is not likely to be different this year. I am from outside the US. At this moment it is still hypothetical, but I am not interested in participating in the American picture contest. So, US-citizens, please have lots of fun in posting your pictures and let there be a lots of very happy winners. There is no grief nor wining over this point. 2 The owner of a travel bug can decide where he wants to release it. Just as I can decide where I want to release my travel bug, so can the Jeep company. If Jeep wants his travel bugs released in America, so be it. It is fine with me. There is no grief nor wining over this point either. 3 As soon as a travel bug is released it starts to travel. That is what is primarily meant to do and a Jeep is not different. But what I find wrong is the alleged ban on these travels. They came up with the rule: “Jeeps are supposed not to leave the contest area”. This strange travel obstruction rule came up last year. To my belief, this is against anything a travel bug stands for. Anyway, everything is still hypothetical. The new Jeeps and the new rules are not released yet. But let’s hope the strange ban on its travels, is dropped. Concluding I, and I know a large group geocachers in the rest of the world; have no problems with the restricted picture contest. We have no problem with the local release of the Jeep in the USA. We do have major problems with the travel barrier. We want to see the Jeeps too, and we want to let them travel too. I do know the opinion of BlueDeuce regarding this matter. His/her/there opinion has the same value as mine. If you would like to read last years conversation you could start to look here Zilvervloot.

Let’s hope it will not be a local contest like it was in the last years. I sincerely hope in the next contest, they will lift the strange prison cage around a part of the United States. The way how the Diabetics bugs contest was organized was very good! Everyone around the globe had the same opportunity to receive one and there are no travel boundaries. I am still pretty much impressed with the way they (.com) organized it. Zilvervloot.

First of all, isn’t it very strange they ask you money to place a cache? Should it not be the other way around? Placing a cache is giving the area free advertisement. Whether it is in a park or elsewhere, it lures people. In your case people who might even spend some money or might speak (more) positive of this Wisconsin county. Besides a fee of 5$, that is a symbolic amount. Symbolic since the amount is marginal compared to even the smallest promotional marketing budget. Secondly, anyone who starts to pay will spoil it for others. When you give in to any administration to finance their administration costs, you and everybody else have to pay from now on for a free service. Who knows where it will end. When it is common knowledge among park or county administrations or over the world to charge for caches, we might be the end of our great hobby. And last, does the county give anything in return? Will they maintain the cache? Will they take proper actions if the cache get robbed or vandalized? Will they guard you cache like it is their own property? Will they compensate you in any way when something happens to the cache? So, to my opinion, do not pay. I hope every potential cache hider has a good relation with park or county administration where you discuss things like the best spot to hide the cache and the most interesting route to get there. But some things are non-negotiable; paying for placing a cache is one of them. It is just as inappropriate as the right to edit the cache description or the demand to delete unwanted logs. I have, to me "cost to cost" is in a foreign country. But, a worldwide system is no problem. Let's ask the United nations! Zilvervloot.

I know my English is not that good. Sbell111 makes a remark I do not understand. Why is a non-commercial organization not a business and why should it not fall under the ‘commercial’ guideline? I think this was the original question asked by Super Dad: “Is a cache on the perimeters of a non-profit entity, where you must pay an entrance fee, a “commercial” cache? I would say the commercial guideline apply also to non-commercial organizations. A non-commercial organization also provides customers a product/service in exchange for money. And when you must purchase their product/service to get to the cache, it should be treated as “commercial”. Any organization is commercial for geocaching if it is not possible to find the cache without buying something. Since the new guidelines states it is not possible anymore to allow commercial caches, to my opinion this implies it is not possible to place any new cache on the perimeters of an organisation where you must pay an entrance fee. But please fee free to place your response if you see it different, or if you agree. @ Familie Tricaching: At the time we were visiting Aguntum in Austria, it was not possible to enter perimeters of the roman village by using the exit on the other side of the road. We tried, but that side was impossible to enter. A guard and (temporarily) fences stopped us and blocked that way. And yes, I read the remarks other cachers made. I guess the two cachers who visited the roman village after my visit, had the same unpleasant experience and therefore posted also a DNF-log. The reason I placed the link to my log is to illustrate how frustrating it is when you have to pay money, just for looking for a cache. Zilvervloot.

There are “new” guidelines (21st Feb '07). It states clear what a commercial cache is. Commercial Caches Commercial caches attempt to use the Geocaching.com web site cache reporting tool directly or indirectly (intentionally or non-intentionally) to solicit customers through a Geocaching.com listing. These are NOT permitted. Examples include for-profit locations that require an entrance fee, or locations that sell products or services. If the finder is required to go inside the business, interact with employees, and/or purchase a product or service, then the cache is presumed to be commercial These guidelines apply to new caches, the old ones are considered to be “grandfathered” So according to the new guidelines, a new cache in a zoo with an entrance fee is considered commercial. Personally, I am happy with these new guidelines. It will prevent unwanted surprises like this one. Zilvervloot.

I am against anything that smells like the commercial exploitation of geocaching. I personally would consider it bad taste to place a cache in a zone where you must pay a fee to a commercial organization to find the cache. Examples like these are a cache inside Disney land, at the top of the Eiffel tower, or a cache where you have to pay the cache owner to get the permission to log. If you allow these caches, you will never know where it will end. Eventually there will be a clever businessman who will place caches in his entertainment park, just to lure more customers. As soon as you must pay to find a cache, I think is wrong. But, a cache is OK when spending money is not mandatory. When the donation of money is optional. A good example is for instance, a cache near a medieval church where you can support it is maintenance by putting some money in a small box. Or a cache at a campus for the mentally challenged, where you can support their good work by spending a meal in the restaurant run by the inhabitants. So, answering your question, when the zoo is a commercial zoo, I will never ever go to your cache. I will think of you as a shareholder of this zoo. A zoo that treats of our great free hobby as a source of new income. However, if your zoo is a non-commercial one, where a small fee is not forced but suggested, I will not even visit your cache, I know I will even donate something. Zilvervloot.

You can put the travel bug in any other cache. It does not have to be a travel bug hotel. So do not limit yourselves to the hotels. After all a travelbug hotel is nothing more than a normal cache. Since there are big travelbug hotels, and small ones, I figure you are more interested in the size of a cache. This is listed at the top of any cache page, at the right hand side. Large – medium – small – micro. But when you are a premium member, you can make a query. In this query, you can sort the caches by size and difficulty (stars) and send all the coordinates of these desired caches at once to your GPSr. This might work much better than a list of travel bug hotels. Especially when there are some rather obscure travel bug hotels around. Zilvervloot.

You are right, nobody, outside the US, can participate in the photo contest. When you upload a photo you can not give in a country. You can only fill in an American state from the pull down menu. Zilvervloot.

At last the Jeep picture contest is over!!!!!! Could anyone send a green jeep TB to Amsterdam, The Netherlands? I will place it into a cache as soon as it will arrive to allow also non-US geocachers to share it. Please contact me via email and I will send you my address. Thank you Zilvervloot.

I’m also curious if legal support is necessary for American geocachers. Geocaching is an international “game” and I would consider it unfair to charge local legal support to the international community. Zilvervloot.

I recieved my U4DB TB today! And according to the messages in our Dutch forum, almost everybody in The Netherlands recieved one today. "Mine" is heading for: Lakeville Zilvervloot.

Interesting figures, can you do the same with the green Jeeps? Zilvervloot.

Has anyone outside the US received a U4D TB yet? Zilvervloot.

I do not know how to express my positive feeling towards this project. It is great, it is for a good cause and it is well executed. All the negative remarks I have upon the Jeep projects, are not valid for this project. Since no one is excluded to apply for the special diabetes travel bug, everyone has the same chance to receive one. Geocaching is a global activity, and so is the treat of diabetes. If geocaching can contribute to more awairness of diabetes, let us all participate and apply for the travelbug. And it is FREE! Zilvervloot.