USPS Mailbox

[+BlessedBees]

Found one on a mailbox and the clue is "USPS." Doesn't seem appropriate. Is there a policy on this?

[+Team Cotati]

Found one on a mailbox and the clue is "USPS." Doesn't seem appropriate. Is there a policy on this?

 

Why does there have to be a policy?

[+Arrow42]

Found one on a mailbox and the clue is "USPS." Doesn't seem appropriate. Is there a policy on this?

 

Was it in the USPS box or just stuck underneath with a magnet?

 

If it's not causing harm to the USPS box then I think they would likely take the policy of "tactful ignorance".

[+Prime Suspect]

Found one on a mailbox and the clue is "USPS." Doesn't seem appropriate. Is there a policy on this?

Mailboxes are federal property, and caches are not allowed on them.

[+rjb43nh]

There is a policy which looks like you can't have a geocache in a mailbox that is used for U.S. mail. I just copied this from a thread I Goggled.

According to Title 18, United States Code, Section 1705, residential

mailboxes are indeed considered Federal Property and are protected

under that same code against acts of mail theft, vandalism and

rifling:

 

United States Code TITLE 18 > PART I > CHAPTER 83

http://makeashorterlink.com/?K10125B84

 

Tampering with mailboxes in any fashion is a felony offense:

 

"Mailboxes are considered federal property, and federal law makes it a

crime to vandalize them (and to injure, deface or destroy any mail

deposited in them)."

 

Tips to prevent mail theft, by Jim Walters, Woodinville Postmaster

http://www.nwnews.com/editions/2003/20030203/local19.html

 

...and mailboxes may be used *only* for mail:

 

"A mailbox becomes Federal property, she points out, the minute it is

in place and used. That assures the box can be used only for mail and

nothing else."

[+Arrow42]

Mailboxes are federal property, and caches are not allowed on them.

 

I'd be interested in seeing the source for that.

 

This is the federal law, as I found it:

 

Whoever willfully or maliciously injures, tears down or destroys any letter box or other receptacle intended or used for the receipt or delivery of mail on any mail route, or breaks open the same or willfully or maliciously injures, defaces or destroys any mail deposited therein, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than three years, or both. - 18 USC Sec. 1705

 

Is there another section that might apply?

[+Ambrosia]

Here are a few threads about it, that might shed some light on the subject (there might be others, I just did a quick search): here and here and here.

[CoyoteRed]

Mailboxes are federal property, and caches are not allowed on them.

I'd be interested in seeing the source for that.

While the OP doesn't say, the big blue boxes you see on the street are paid for by...?

 

Private boxes are just that, private. Personally, I wouldn't be caught even with the appearance of tampering with the US mail. Considering if you dig further it's illegal to put the words "United State Mail" and similar. Also, considering I'm loathe to pull over a mail carrier when they're on a route for fear of "obstruction of mail." The USPS takes the mail very seriously. Yeah, I'd say I'd avoid active mailboxes like the plague.

[+Chrysalides]

I'm loathe to pull over a mail carrier when they're on a route for fear of "obstruction of mail."

Off topic, sorry, but I just thought of the perfect getaway car.

 

Of course, those things don't actually go very fast around here...

[+Harry Dolphin]

Private boxes are just that, private.

 

From what I understand, it is illegal to put anything in a private mailbox that does not have proper postage, and handled by the USPS. (This comes from time spent in politics.)

[Mr.Yuck]

Found one on a mailbox and the clue is "USPS." Doesn't seem appropriate. Is there a policy on this?

Mailboxes are federal property, and caches are not allowed on them.

 

Yep, seen plenty o' mailbox caches archived when the reviewer finds out that's where they're hidden. Both in the U.S. and Canada, as a matter of fact. I do admit to finding a leg of a multi on one in like 2004, but that one's long, long gone.

[+GrateBear]

Here's an interesting saga about a cache on a mailbox in Chicago. However, it is doubtful that the scenario outlined by "doodyfree" ever happened. But still, it was a problem.

 

http://www.geocaching.com/seek/cache_detai...23-261f5c84e577

[Mushtang]

Considering if you dig further it's illegal to put the words "United State Mail" and similar.

Huh?

 

It's illegal to put the words "United State Mail" where? On an envelope? On a cache? In a forum post? Anywhere? That doesn't sound right to me.

[Keystone]

When muggles see you playing post office proctologist, what do you think that looks like to them?

 

'nuff said.

 

[+Chrysalides]

Considering if you dig further it's illegal to put the words "United State Mail" and similar.

Huh?

 

It's illegal to put the words "United State Mail" where? On an envelope? On a cache? In a forum post? Anywhere? That doesn't sound right to me.

Maybe because it is "United States Mail"? Unless you're in Texas, maybe... (referring to the independent Texas, not to the spelling)

[Mushtang]

Considering if you dig further it's illegal to put the words "United State Mail" and similar.

Huh?

 

It's illegal to put the words "United State Mail" where? On an envelope? On a cache? In a forum post? Anywhere? That doesn't sound right to me.

Maybe because it is "United States Mail"? Unless you're in Texas, maybe... (referring to the independent Texas, not to the spelling)

Okay, even with the correct spelling, it still doesn't make sense.

 

It's illegal to put the words "United States Mail" and similar.

 

Put them where?

Edited November 7, 2009 by Mushtang

[AZcachemeister]

When muggles see you playing post office proctologist, what do you think that looks like to them?

 

'nuff said.

 

 

And if it could be proven that you even only knew about the 'illegal object attached to the postal receptacle', you would be subject to the same $20,000 fine as the perpetrators.

 

The Postal Inspectors (Federal Agents) are notoriously humorless.

 

EDIT: to add the postal inspector line.

Edited November 7, 2009 by AZcachemeister

[+Arrow42]

And if it could be proven that you even only knew about the 'illegal object attached to the postal receptacle', you would be subject to the same $20,000 fine as the perpetrators.

 

The Postal Inspectors (Federal Agents) are notoriously humorless.

 

EDIT: to add the postal inspector line.

 

Citation please?

[CoyoteRed]

Considering if you dig further it's illegal to put the words "United State Mail" and similar.

Huh?

 

It's illegal to put the words "United State Mail" where? On an envelope? On a cache? In a forum post? Anywhere? That doesn't sound right to me.

Oops, forgot the rest.

 

"...on a vehicle that does not carry US Mail."

 

18 USC Sec. 1731

It shall be unlawful to paint, print, or in any manner to place

upon or attach to any steamboat or other vessel, or any car,

stagecoach, vehicle, or other conveyance, not actually used in

carrying the mail, the words "United States Mail", or any words,

letters, or characters of like import; or to give notice, by

publishing in any newspaper or otherwise, that any steamboat or

other vessel, or any car, stagecoach, vehicle, or other conveyance,

is used in carrying the mail, when the same is not actually so

used.

Whoever violates, and every owner, receiver, lessee, or managing

operator who suffers, or permits the violation of, any provision of

this section, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not

more than six months, or both.

 

~ Helps to proofread a bit better. ~

Edited November 7, 2009 by CoyoteRed

[CoyoteRed]

I'm loathe to pull over a mail carrier when they're on a route for fear of "obstruction of mail."

Off topic, sorry, but I just thought of the perfect getaway car.

 

Of course, those things don't actually go very fast around here...

As a get-away car? Naw. But I won't be hassling any carriers over a cracked windshield or slow roll through a stop sign that's for sure.

[Mr.Yuck]

Here's an interesting saga about a cache on a mailbox in Chicago. However, it is doubtful that the scenario outlined by "doodyfree" ever happened. But still, it was a problem.

 

http://www.geocaching.com/seek/cache_detai...23-261f5c84e577

 

Well, all I know is that was doodyfree's (great username by the way) last find, and they haven't logged into the website in over two years.

 

There should be no debate here. We've seen reviewers in this thread confirm that caches on mailboxes will be archived if it becomes known to them that's where they're hidden. And I've seen it happen at least a half dozen times in two countries.

[Mushtang]

Oops, forgot the rest.

 

"...on a vehicle that does not carry US Mail."

Ahh, gotcha. Now I understand. I knew there must have been more to that thought, and I would have been really surprised if it was illegal to place those words anywhere.

 

Not being allowed to place them on a vehicle that's not carrying mail I can understand.

 

Not being allowed to put them on a cache page, a forum post, on the log book, on the cache lid, etc. just didn't make sense.

 

Thanks for the clarification.

[+jackrock]

Interesting topic considering how many are on USPS mailboxes. I would not place one there but I have seen several. The hint "blue" or "USPS" is a dead giveaway.

[+StarBrand]

Interesting topic considering how many are on USPS mailboxes. I would not place one there but I have seen several. The hint "blue" or "USPS" is a dead giveaway.

If you care about the activity at all - you should post a "should Archive" log type on each of them to point them out to a reviewer. I would.

Edited November 7, 2009 by StarBrand

[+buttaskotch]

Its absolutely illegal to place caches on Mailboxes. I had asked my father who is a retired Postal Supervisor to place on in front of his PO, he said that it was a literally a federal crime and listed the amount of times he had to deal with suspicious packages found in mailboxes. For those who forgot, after 9/11 there were those issues with Anthrax found in mail.

Everytime I have found a cache on a postal box I have sent a polite email to the CO to let them know the illegality of their cache and let them archive on their own. If they didn't, then an SBA to reviewer is sent on just why it should be archived.

Blowing the whistle on a cache is a bit better than a cacher found "tampering" with US mail.

[+wimseyguy]

And if it could be proven that you even only knew about the 'illegal object attached to the postal receptacle', you would be subject to the same $20,000 fine as the perpetrators.

 

The Postal Inspectors (Federal Agents) are notoriously humorless.

 

EDIT: to add the postal inspector line.

 

Citation please?

 

Tell ya what-how about you go into the nearest post office and ask for permission to place a magnetic keyholder under one of those blue boxes? Then come back here and tell us how it went.

They are USPS property. The USPS is not known for its flexibility nor sense of humor.

 

I know of a few very small town/rural areas where the postmaster granted permission for a cache to be placed out in the parking lot that it shared with other downtown businesses. But I cannot imagine anyone getting permission to affix something to one of those boxes anywhere. I'd post a NA log on any one that I found.

[+NatureGuy360]

It does not matter if it is illegal to place a geocache on a mailbox or not. Unless you have permission granted from the owner of the mailbox, and/or the property owner where the mailbox is placed on, then any geocache there is violating the geocaching guidelines.

[+Haffy]

If a firetruck,an ambulance,a police car and a mail truck all come to a 4-way intersection at the same time who has the right-of-way first? Yeah you got it,the mail truck. Any government vehicle always has the right-of-way.

[CoyoteRed]

If a firetruck,an ambulance,a police car and a mail truck all come to a 4-way intersection at the same time who has the right-of-way first? Yeah you got it,the mail truck. Any government vehicle always has the right-of-way.

Actually*, I believe the correct answer is "the one to the right." Being an emergency vehicle doesn't give you any right-of-way rights. Non-emergency vehicles must yield, but being an emergency vehicle (i.e. an authorized vehicle with lights and siren going) only allows them to disregard certain traffic laws as long as it's in a safe and prudent manner.

 

In fact, when responding to a call with lights and siren, if we get in an accident and it would have been our fault normally, it's still our fault even with the lights and siren.

 

*Speaking from the SC perspective.

[+reedkickball]

Found one on a mailbox and the clue is "USPS." Doesn't seem appropriate. Is there a policy on this?

 

I wouldn't do it. A friend placed a cache on the bottom side of a USPS box that was painted to look like R2D2. It ended with the bomb squad, thankfully that was the worst of it. http://www.geocaching.com/seek/cache_detai...b1-9357ed6b0972

[+Arrow42]

Citation please?

 

Tell ya what-how about you go into the nearest post office and ask for permission to place a magnetic keyholder under one of those blue boxes? Then come back here and tell us how it went.

They are USPS property. The USPS is not known for its flexibility nor sense of humor.

 

I know of a few very small town/rural areas where the postmaster granted permission for a cache to be placed out in the parking lot that it shared with other downtown businesses. But I cannot imagine anyone getting permission to affix something to one of those boxes anywhere. I'd post a NA log on any one that I found.

 

I'm asking for a citation because people keep spouting that it's illegal because.... well, they heard somewhere. Or, they are making assumptions based on incomplete information. Either way, I have yet to see evidence that it's illegal in every circumstance. Lets stop assuming and actually arm our selfs with the facts. If we have the law in hand we can bring that to friendly local post-offices and work something out.

 

"Some guy" isn't a legitimate source. Ask 5 IRS agents the same question and your as likely as not to get 5 different answers. The law is written down and available to the public. I've looked, and I can't find anything. The law is complicated, however, so it might be there hiding.

 

Yes, permission is required by Groundspeak policy. However, that is a completely different issue and in no way related to my question. For example: If there is a law prohibiting sticking a magnet to a mailbox then it might not matter if the local postmaster gave permission or not.

 

Thats why I want the facts. They are important.

[+Prime Suspect]

From the USPS FAQ:

 

United States Postal Service® Collection boxes are the property of the Postal Service™. You are not allowed to affix anything to them, including flyers, signs about missing items or animals, and advertisements.

[+Bergie Bunch]

If a firetruck,an ambulance,a police car and a mail truck all come to a 4-way intersection at the same time who has the right-of-way first? Yeah you got it,the mail truck. Any government vehicle always has the right-of-way.

Too bad you are WRONG!! The mail truck does not have the right of way. You, along with MANY others believe this falsehood. Here is the link. MAIL TRUCK LIES

And for clarifacation, Police cars are a government vehicle, as are most fire trucks and many ambulances.

Edited November 8, 2009 by Bergie Bunch

[Clan Riffster]

On a separate note, I tried several times to find one of those blue R2D2 looking mail boxes that I could purchase for my own nefarious use, and all I've met are dead ends. Maybe they can't be purchased? Maybe I just suck at Google? If anyone knows of a source, it would make my day.

[+Arrow42]

From the USPS FAQ:

 

United States Postal Service® Collection boxes are the property of the Postal Service™. You are not allowed to affix anything to them, including flyers, signs about missing items or animals, and advertisements.

 

Post office policy is interesting (and relevant for the sake of trying to ascertain permission), but it is not law and might be open for negotiation.

[+wimseyguy]

Hmm, the USPS is a government agency.

They have a policy about their property.

How much clearer does it need to be?

Or are you just arguing for the fun of it at this point?

 

PS-but if you really want to negotiate, the person to do it with is your friendly local postmaster. So as previously suggested, go have a talk with them. Let us know how it goes.

Edited November 8, 2009 by wimseyguy

[+Prime Suspect]

From the USPS FAQ:

 

United States Postal Service® Collection boxes are the property of the Postal Service™. You are not allowed to affix anything to them, including flyers, signs about missing items or animals, and advertisements.

 

Post office policy is interesting (and relevant for the sake of trying to ascertain permission), but it is not law and might be open for negotiation.

It answers the OPs question. The Post Office has made their wishes known, and as far as gc.com is concerned, that's all that's required.

[+Chrysalides]

On a separate note, I tried several times to find one of those blue R2D2 looking mail boxes that I could purchase for my own nefarious use, and all I've met are dead ends. Maybe they can't be purchased? Maybe I just suck at Google? If anyone knows of a source, it would make my day.

http://www.postalproducts.com/ProductSearc...Start1=N1004687

 

Not sure if it is exactly the same as the one you're looking for. You'd need to paint them blue, of course. And I'm not a lawyer, but I'm pretty sure impersonating a USPS mailbox is a federal offense

[Clan Riffster]

Perfect! I've got a spot way back in a nearby swamp that is begging for a multicache. I already found a chunk of gaurdrail I can slap a hide-a-key on, and my wife bought me a lamp post. All I need to complete the trifecta is one of those mailboxes. At $570, I may have to rethink this one though...

[Mr.Yuck]

Perfect! I've got a spot way back in a nearby swamp that is begging for a multicache. I already found a chunk of gaurdrail I can slap a hide-a-key on, and my wife bought me a lamp post. All I need to complete the trifecta is one of those mailboxes. At $570, I may have to rethink this one though...

 

Yeah, but if you buy 6, they're only $473.

[+sbell111]

These threads always go around and around never arriving anywhere.

[+KBI]

Perfect! I've got a spot way back in a nearby swamp that is begging for a multicache. I already found a chunk of gaurdrail I can slap a hide-a-key on, and my wife bought me a lamp post. All I need to complete the trifecta is one of those mailboxes. At $570, I may have to rethink this one though...

That cache sounds awesome! Might be worth driving out of my way for.

 

(You didn't say, but I'm assuming there will be a fake sprinkler head stage in there as well?)

[+wimseyguy]

These threads always go around and around never arriving anywhere.

 

Some people like discussing the definition of the word 'the'.

Some people like their post count > find count.

 

I don't fall into either group.

[+Coyote's Girl]

And if it could be proven that you even only knew about the 'illegal object attached to the postal receptacle', you would be subject to the same $20,000 fine as the perpetrators.

 

The Postal Inspectors (Federal Agents) are notoriously humorless.

 

EDIT: to add the postal inspector line.

 

Citation please?

 

I think what they're looking for is this (or something simmilar) My mother works for the USPS. Many years ago we had an awful ice storm that caused a tree to crash into her house. I tried to call her at work, and all I knew was she "threw" what the unwashed masses refer to as "Junk mail" So I called and asked to plaese speak to "Mary Smith" (names have been changed) Now my mom's real name isn't nearly so common, cut the lovely lady on the phone asked me where in the PO she worked. I committed the crime of saying she orked with the Junk Mail. I was told in no uncertain terms that the Post Office did not have junk mail and was hung up on. Turns out the stuff is actually called BBM or Bulk Business Mail. They do take themselves way too seriously down there. Caches on mail boxes? No way. If you MUST have a cache in your yard, put it in the flower bed UNDER your mail box. But make sure your finders don't park in front while they're hunting.

[+Unkle Fester]

Perfect! I've got a spot way back in a nearby swamp that is begging for a multicache. I already found a chunk of gaurdrail I can slap a hide-a-key on, and my wife bought me a lamp post. All I need to complete the trifecta is one of those mailboxes. At $570, I may have to rethink this one though...

You're killing me! This has to be the cache of the year if you do it...

[+Chrysalides]

Perfect! I've got a spot way back in a nearby swamp that is begging for a multicache. I already found a chunk of gaurdrail I can slap a hide-a-key on, and my wife bought me a lamp post. All I need to complete the trifecta is one of those mailboxes. At $570, I may have to rethink this one though...

Sweet! How about a fence post cap? A short section of fence should be a lot cheaper than a mailbox.