Ethics Question

[+FatPants]

Yesterday I was hunting a cache, and I got to GZ and found a cache. What I found was a small chap-stick container, wrapped with camo tape, stuck in a crook in a tree. I opened the container, and there was a stash note, and a blank log sheet. I signed the soggy log, and went about my business.

 

I got home to find out that I was supposed to be finding an ammo can! I posted a DNF on the cache, because I obviously did not find an ammo can, but I did find A cache, right at GZ.

 

What would you have done? Would anyone have posted a found it log?

[gojkgo]

There couldn't be two registered geocaches at the same spot. I would email the cache owner of the ammo can listing, explain what you found, and ask them if that's their cache.

[+gof1]

Yes, contact the owner. You may have found someones throw-down or a temporary replacement for the ammo can if it went missing.

[Motorcycle_Mama]

Did the stash note identify the cache by name or Waypoint ID?

[+FatPants]

Did the stash note identify the cache by name or Waypoint ID?

Negative. I am tempted to head back out their soon to try and locate the ammo can.

[+otis89]

For some reason, some people feel that if they can't find a cache, then it has to be missing, and they'll just toss a replacement cache wherever they feel one should go, without contacting the owner or anything. It's stupid, but it happens.

[+sbell111]

Did the stash note identify the cache by name or Waypoint ID?

Negative. I am tempted to head back out their soon to try and locate the ammo can.

I'd email the cache owner first.

[+ventura_kids]

just log the find.

Life is too short to worry about the small stuff.

 

If the owner deletes your find, you will get an email stating as much.

[djhobby]

It could also be a cache listed on another site such as Terracahe.com, but it's probably like someone else said previously, someone looked for the ammo can, assumed it was gone, and "helped" the cache owner out by putting out their own.

[+FatPants]

It could also be a cache listed on another site such as Terracahe.com, but it's probably like someone else said previously, someone looked for the ammo can, assumed it was gone, and "helped" the cache owner out by putting out their own.

It had a geocaching.com log sheet, so I assume that would rule out a terracache. I emaied the owner, we will see what he says.

[+brodiebunch]

Could it have been a waypoint in a multi-cache?

[+FatPants]

Could it have been a waypoint in a multi-cache?

There are some multi's in the area, but this didnt contain any co-ords for another location. Just a stash note about geocaching.com and a blank log sheet.

[+Arrow42]

Could it have been a waypoint in a multi-cache?

 

A physical stage in a multi-cache can't be within 512 feet of another cache (other then caches of that particular series).

[+uxorious]

just log the find.

 

Life is too short to worry about the small stuff.

 

If the owner deletes your find, you will get an email stating as much.

 

That would be one option a person could take. However, that leaves the problem for future cachers and the owner to take care of. If you can it would be better to try and help get this figured out.

 

I wouldn't consider this a huge issue, but it also isn't small stuff. For myself I would want to confirm that I had found the cache, or I would not want to log it.

[Knight-Errant]

We have encountered a similar problem more than once before. However, in hindsight (always being 20/20) we think it would have been best to have contacted the cache owner before logging the caches.

 

In one case, the ammo can had indeed been replaced with a fairly good micro by someone (and the log sheet already had some log entries). I believe the cache owner let it continue, but changed the size on the cache listing. In another case we found a small container (also with log entries) that had also been placed by someone. In this case the cache owner checked on it and assured us that the ammo can was still there, but like the spot we found the small container better, so he removed the small container and moved the ammo can to the same spot. In each case the cache owner has considered it appropriate to allow the Found It to remain.

[+Harry Dolphin]

just log the find.

Life is too short to worry about the small stuff.

 

If the owner deletes your find, you will get an email stating as much.

 

It sounds as though he did not find the right cache. Why would he log it as found? That would be a bizarre and unethical thing to do.

It sounds as though he might have found a cache that was hidden but not approved because it was too close to the actual cache.

[+Knight2000]

For some reason, some people feel that if they can't find a cache, then it has to be missing, and they'll just toss a replacement cache wherever they feel one should go, without contacting the owner or anything. It's stupid, but it happens.

It's an angel cache!

[AZcachemeister]

Yep, if you are going to 'claim to have found' 17,000+ caches, ethics don't enter into the equation.

 

Perhaps it was a cache that was never submitted or published for whatever reason?

 

A similar thing happened to me once. A cache was published, and the owner stated the container was a film cannister. I arrived at the location, and easily found a hide-a-key rock, with a geocaching logsheet inside. I signed the log, completely oblivious to the fact that I had found the wrong container (as described by the owner). After some subsequent confusion, I conceded that I did not get the FTF, and returned to sign the correct log and remove the abandoned hide-a-key rock, which has since been used for one of my caches.

[+sbell111]

Yep, if you are going to 'claim to have found' 17,000+ caches, ethics don't enter into the equation.

 

Perhaps it was a cache that was never submitted or published for whatever reason?

 

A similar thing happened to me once. A cache was published, and the owner stated the container was a film cannister. I arrived at the location, and easily found a hide-a-key rock, with a geocaching logsheet inside. I signed the log, completely oblivious to the fact that I had found the wrong container (as described by the owner). After some subsequent confusion, I conceded that I did not get the FTF, and returned to sign the correct log and remove the abandoned hide-a-key rock, which has since been used for one of my caches.

Nothing like dragging your personal angstiness into an unrelated thread.

[Tahosa and Sons]

I would check with the owner and really find out the situation on his cache. Perhaps you found something someone else hid but never carried the process thru. When I was hiding this CACHE I left behind a small container at the first stage, while I was doing the research on the feasibilty of the hide. I finally placed the cache and totally forget about the first lil container. Well some cacher found the lil one for me. So after we talked about it, I gave him assistance to finish the cache. Then I went up the hill found the original container, which was about 2 feet from the finished stage, removed it and hiked the cache just to make sure all was right. It works both ways hiders should work with finders so all can enjoy the game.

[+fegan]

just log the find.

Life is too short to worry about the small stuff.

 

If the owner deletes your find, you will get an email stating as much.

 

But that could mess up a milestone (for those of us who plan a special cache for a milestone).

 

Nothing I hate more than having a log deleted. It has only happened once and it DID mess up a milestone...I had to re-log 7 or 8 finds to fix it.

[AZcachemeister]

Yep, if you are going to 'claim to have found' 17,000+ caches, ethics don't enter into the equation.

 

Perhaps it was a cache that was never submitted or published for whatever reason?

 

A similar thing happened to me once. A cache was published, and the owner stated the container was a film cannister. I arrived at the location, and easily found a hide-a-key rock, with a geocaching logsheet inside. I signed the log, completely oblivious to the fact that I had found the wrong container (as described by the owner). After some subsequent confusion, I conceded that I did not get the FTF, and returned to sign the correct log and remove the abandoned hide-a-key rock, which has since been used for one of my caches.

Nothing like dragging your personal angstiness into an unrelated thread.

 

My own personal angstiness? I suppose so.

 

All I know is that I have signed the logbook for every cache I have claimed online.

I have never needed the owner to approve my log for a cache that was missing, and I have never claimed a find for a throw-down replacement container that I dropped.

[+Taoiseach]

Could it have been a waypoint in a multi-cache?

 

A physical stage in a multi-cache can't be within 512 feet of another cache (other then caches of that particular series).

 

**cough** 528'

 

[knowschad]

There couldn't be two registered geocaches at the same spot. I would email the cache owner of the ammo can listing, explain what you found, and ask them if that's their cache.

 

Sure it could. Could be listed on another cache listing site (there are a couple, believe it or not ! or it could be an archived cache that was never trashed out (yeah, sad to say, but it does happen).

 

Should have read the complete post before commenting. I'm humbled.

 

[

Just a stash note about geocaching.com and an empty log book .

 

Ahhhh... OK. Sounds more like a newbie's cache, hidden without first checking for nearby coords, nixed buy reviewer, and never cached out.

Edited August 17, 2009 by knowschad

[GreenLantern5000]

I guess I'd probably toss up a red flag when the cache listing said small or regular size and then I found a micro..... Actually... I probably wouldn't have even been looking in a tree for a regular sized geocache..... LOL, so good for you for even finding a micro where a regular should've been....

[+Unkle Fester]

Something similar happened to me, but after an email, (which the OP did) I found out that the CO had switched two caches around that they placed. the coords got swapped with the descriptions.

 

I've also seen caches with one name inside the container and one on the posting which made me question... but that was where they decided to change its name...

[+Team GPSaxophone]

There are several possibilities:

• Someone hid the micro and never submitted it for review. Someone else came along with an ammo can.
  
• Someone hid the micro and submitted it for review but it was too close to another cache. The other cache was eventually archived but the micro owner never came back. Someone else came along with an ammo can.
  
• Someone hid the micro and someone else came along with an ammo can. The ammo can cache was submitted first and the micro owner never came back to retrieve their cache.
  
• etc.
  

Hard to believe the ammo can was sitting under the tree already when the person placed the micro, but it could happen.

[+Castle Mischief]

I had a small cache hidden on the first floor of a parking garage. Unknown to me there had been a micro on the same parking garage, but on the second floor- right above mine. The micro was archived, but the container was in place. There's no telling how many of the found it logs were actually for the old micro and not my small... I know that at least one was, but I'll never know the total because my small container was stolen along with the log. Oh well.

 

But, uh yeah. Contact the owner and/or post a note.

[+StarBrand]

A quick email to the cache owner would clear up any confusion. I recently found a film can clearly marked as a gc.com geocache and had a logsheet only 10 foot away from an active decon container cache. The logs in the filmcan were all dated 2004 and 2005. Must have been an archived cache.

[+Renegade Knight]

Yesterday I was hunting a cache, and I got to GZ and found a cache. What I found was a small chap-stick container, wrapped with camo tape, stuck in a crook in a tree. I opened the container, and there was a stash note, and a blank log sheet. I signed the soggy log, and went about my business.

 

I got home to find out that I was supposed to be finding an ammo can! I posted a DNF on the cache, because I obviously did not find an ammo can, but I did find A cache, right at GZ.

 

What would you have done? Would anyone have posted a found it log?

 

I would have emailed the cache owner and asked "what's up?" In my area we have a cache maggot who will switch containers. Once I went to check on my Navicache and found 3 Geocaching.com caches. Obviously you were near GZ, but didn't find the cache that the Owner hid. Some folks say "sure log the other cache as this cache" but you didn't really find the other cache either.

 

Personally I think you help the owner figure out what the heck is going on, and when they get it fixed, that's when you can log the real cache.

[+Renegade Knight]

A quick email to the cache owner would clear up any confusion. I recently found a film can clearly marked as a gc.com geocache and had a logsheet only 10 foot away from an active decon container cache. The logs in the filmcan were all dated 2004 and 2005. Must have been an archived cache.

Locally, Folks are finding my Navicachea and logging a find in a nearby GC.com cache. They are 30' apart give or take. I haven't yet managed to find the GC.com cache.

[+Sioneva]

I recently placed a cache - nano on a lightpost - okay, actually on a tiki torch I carried into the woods. (What can I say? I wanted to put a nano in the woods!) Just to make things interesting, I hid a decon container very close by, with a piece of paper stating "This is not the cache."

 

Well, in the course of caching events, the decon container leaked and the ink on the paper blurred to unreadibility. Now people either find the nano, or the decon, and sign the paper in either. I let all logs stand without a problem. Fault's mine, not theirs, and it's interesting to see who finds which!

[+PirateKatz]

On Sunday, we had a similar issue as the OP.

 

While in the process of finding a cache (we never did find it), we came across a clear tupperware container hidden under some rocks. It contained a geocoin in an envelope labeled FTF and a bunch of poker chips. It confused us because it was within very close vicinity of the cache we were looking for. We assumed it was part of some kind of event or a multi. We just scratched our heads and let it be for whoever the lucky FTF was to be.

 

As we were driving out of the park, we saw a bunch of people milling around the area with GPS's in hand. I'm guessing there was some kind of event involving temporary caches.

[Skippermark]

A quick email to the cache owner would clear up any confusion.

Not always. There was a cache we went looking for on vacation. Description said it was a deviously hidden micro. When we got there, we found a regular size cache. Nowhere in the description did it mention a regular. A quick check of the owners profile showed they were "unverified" and hadn't been on since 2005. The logbook had the name of the cache we were looking for, so I'm guessing someone replaced the micro with a regular, but since the owner isn't online and can't be contacted, there's no way to know for sure.

 

In cases like this, I really wish a SBA would be posted and then someone just place a new cache there because it makes things really confusing sometimes. It's not like the cache was historic or anything special, and for those who struggled to find the "deviously hidden" micro, now everyone is walking up and finding a quick and easy cache.

 

When we got home and looked through all the logs, we saw that someone mentioned they replaced the micro with a regular size container.

[+sleepless2]

just log the find.

Life is too short to worry about the small stuff.

 

If the owner deletes your find, you will get an email stating as much.

 

It sounds as though he did not find the right cache. Why would he log it as found? That would be a bizarre and unethical thing to do.

It sounds as though he might have found a cache that was hidden but not approved because it was too close to the actual cache.

WOW do cache owners ever look at the logs? Then why don't they look at the online logs telling them there's a problem with their cache?

[+ventura_kids]

Well????

Tell us what it ended up being !!!

 

Was it an angel cache (dropped by an angel) -or- did the owner replace the original?

[+FatPants]

Well????

Tell us what it ended up being !!!

 

Was it an angel cache (dropped by an angel) -or- did the owner replace the original?

 

CO did not know about this other cache. I will hopefully be heading out tomorrow to look for the other cache, and see what the deal is with the micro.

[+sbell111]

Yep, if you are going to 'claim to have found' 17,000+ caches, ethics don't enter into the equation.

 

Perhaps it was a cache that was never submitted or published for whatever reason?

 

A similar thing happened to me once. A cache was published, and the owner stated the container was a film cannister. I arrived at the location, and easily found a hide-a-key rock, with a geocaching logsheet inside. I signed the log, completely oblivious to the fact that I had found the wrong container (as described by the owner). After some subsequent confusion, I conceded that I did not get the FTF, and returned to sign the correct log and remove the abandoned hide-a-key rock, which has since been used for one of my caches.

Nothing like dragging your personal angstiness into an unrelated thread.

My own personal angstiness? I suppose so.

 

All I know is that I have signed the logbook for every cache I have claimed online.

I have never needed the owner to approve my log for a cache that was missing, and I have never claimed a find for a throw-down replacement container that I dropped.

While it is true that your post has nothing to do with this thread, you still deserve kudos for your awesomeness.

 

Goodie for you.