Knight-Errant

Its really fuzzy, but you can see this one GC17EBG (it is a bit left of the red coordinates marker).

The type of "log" would make a big difference. If the reference number (TB####) is included somewhere, then any cacher can post a note (cool looking Travel Bug, great idea, etc.), but cannot retrieve or discover it. This would be perfectly okay. HOWEVER, if the tracking number (the "secrect" code) is included (either in text or picture) this is "right out" and it will allow discoveries and retrievals by cachers that never had physical contact with the traveler.

We couldn't disagree more! We challenge you to find ANY online satellite maps that DOESN'T use GPS (Global Positioning System) technology (not necessarily a GPSr). We found about 500 without the benefit of a GPSr and we actually encourage new cachers to start without one, mostly so they will have greater appreciation of having one (but also, while rare, it would be a shame to shell out that much only to find one doesn't enjoy [GASP], have the time for, etc. geocaching). The biggest problems with using online sattelite maps is they are much less helpful in many non-urban areas (less distinguishable landmarks) and in some cases the resolution is too poor to be of any use. The two greatest advantages we have found using a GPSr are overcoming the previously mentioned problems and identifying the relative location to other caches. While we didn't find it too hard to determine the location of a cache and then go find it, a GPSr helps you better identify the other caches inroute and/or nearby. Furthermore, there are still some caches that we couldn't have found without the aid of online sattelite maps.

Another important consideration on giving hints on caches that you don't own would be whether the cache owner still seems to be active. (Caches aren't normally archived just because owner is no longer active or responding, caches ARE archived when there is a problem AND the owner is no longer active or responding.) Just a thought. . .

The later version seems much improved! One additional suggestion (that might also separate it a step further from spam) would be to include HOW you determined they are missing. We are sure you are already aware of the difference between, "I found the cache and they weren't there." and "They were still missing when I found the cache several weeks after another cacher indicated in their log that they were no longer there and it has been several weeks since my find."

That is the part we were wondering about!

Another possiblity would be to place the cache yourself, but then adopt it out to a local cacher after he/she finds it. You would probably want to have the specific cacher in mind BEFORE attempting this. Nothing in the guidelines prohibit this. In this case you may also wish to place the cache on your watch list, just to keep tabs on it as well.

Don't seem to be having any of the mentioned search problems either.

Yes and no. . . There are only two ways to access public bookmarks (other than your own). 1. Access them from the webpage of a specific cache. These may relate to the location, type, owner, and/or characteristics of that cache. 2. Access them from the Bookmarks List on the user's profile page. These would, in some way, obviously relate to the user.

Several thoughts. . . 1. As mentioned before, it would probably not run afowl of gambling laws as there IS an element of skill involved. 2. Laws regarding ponzi schemes might be a problem, but would depend on the specific wording and interpretation of the laws of the applicable state. 3. As for the money, it would work not much difference that an office sports pool. Participants would be willing to fork over a little in the hope of winning it all. 4. Such an idea would have many bad consequeces for geocaching even it not associated with Groundspeak: the aforementioned agressive caching, the bad financial reputation (if IF it did not get into legal trouble), temporary caches (once the money is found, the cache served its only purpose), would attract a less that desireable group of cachers, etc. 5. It is not something that we would participate in and we would discourage others' paticipation as well.

Two exceptions to the aforemention guidance that you may want to consider. 1. Moving caches: Since each time it is moved it is essentially a different hide, many cachers will log a find each time they find it (but obviously not when they were the one that last hid it). Notwithstanding, we choose to still just post notes in these instances. 2. Substantially changed caches: Occassionally cache owner choose to and/or find it necessary to change the cache location and sometimes size. The end result it that it sometime creates a substantially new caching experience. Even though the cache owners will often give express permission to relog a find for these caches, we still choose to post a note anyway.

Every move helps, even the small jumps. This is especially true if a travler is moved from a low find cache to a high find cache and/or Travel Bug Hotel. Sometime the distance between the two is less than a mile, but can substantially increase the probability that another cacher will be able to help the traveler much more than you are able. If nothing else, it still confirms that the traveler is still out there (for the benefit of the owner and others).

We'll fess up. . . We have a puzzle cache that had not been found for many months (but no DNF's posted). We decided to check on it and in the cold, dark, wet, snow, etc. we couldn't find it (a regular size cache at that). We decided to come back another day when conditions were better before disabling the cache. However, before we got the chance, another cacher did find it. (Yes, we did go back within a few days to confirm the status of the cache and did find it that time.) In retrospect, perhaps it would have been approriate to have posted a Didn't find it following the first search.

We actually manged to do just that early on with a geocoin. We must have typo'd the tracking number and ended up with the same type of geocoin. We didn't discover the mistake until we noticed a VERY angry note on the geocoin webpage written by the owner demanding what was going on (particularly how someone else could log it with they were SURE that it was still in their possession.) Fortunately, once the they finally understood the simple mistake, they did cool off. Hey, "it" happens!

There may also be situations where a traveler (Travel Bug, Geocoin, etc.) cannot actually be placed into a cache (micro, traveler too big, etc.) but still visited the cache. There is no reason why they cannot be logged in these situations either. However, you cannot log travelers into EarthCaches--not as much a rule as much as the system simply won't allow you to do it. (Whether or not this SHOULD be allowed has been addressed in other threads--however, our vote is that they should.)

WOW! You almost sound like you think that reviewers are human. Next thing you'll be trying to get us to believe is that they aren't absolutley perfect.

The most simple explanation is that geocoins (as well as [White, Yellow, Green, and Red] Jeep Travel Bugs, Unite for Diabetes Travel Bugs, GeoGems, Cachekinz, Trackable Adventure Guides, etc.) are all just specialized Travel Bugs, all with unique Travel Bug icons. However, there are some other similar items (i.e., PathTags) that are NOT Travel Bugs, but function in a similar manner, except that they are logged on other websites rather than geocaching.com.

A little more on the subject of hints and assistance. . . You may improve (but not guarentee) your success if you let the cache owner what you have done (where you were searching and for how long) and, in the case of puzzle caches, what progress you have made (your solution to the puzzle, or methods to solve the puzzle).

While you are correct that a cache requiring special equipment (boat) should be rated a 5.0 terrain, a short short swim would not necessiarily be a 5.0, just because a swim is required.

Another posibility is contacting some of the veteran cacher that are still active in your area. There is a possiblity that they may have current contact (or contact information) with the owner of the cache--even if he/she is no longer an active cacher.

Im assuming Cache Valley is in Cache County. Yes, mostly. Geographically speaking, Cache Valley extends well into Idaho with about 1/3 of it being north of the Utah-Idaho border in Franklin County, but about of half each of Cache County and Franklin County is mountainous and is therefore not considered part of the geographic Cache Valley. However, in conventional use, Cache Valley usually refers to all of both Cache and Franklin Counties. Yes, we would love to own a cache in Cache County, but it is a little too far away for cache maintance.

Just because the Travel Bug owner has not logged on to geocaching.com for more than nine months does not mean that they are not still receiving the emails. While you are probably correct that they will not respond, the attempt should still be made. Only after unsuccessful attempts to contact the Travel Bug owner to determine the owner's preference. Good move! Attempted contact with the owner and then took appropriate action after a reasonable time had passed without a response. Of course, you also explained all this in a note or your log for the Travel Bug.

First of all, thanks for the history. Second, would you differentiate between "passing out [just] a list of tracking numbers" at an event and a cacher with a nice set of geocoins in a display binder that provides a printed list of the geocoin tracking numbers, but only to those who actually check out their geocoins? (Thus providing an accurate list without each cacher having to remove each geocoin from their encasements.)

Hope your luck and weather improve. If it gives you any hope until you can get a GPSr, we found about 500 before we got access to one.

Yes, but also DRASTICALLY decrease the chance of the item being logged. Many cachers, including ourselves, do not log travelers from websites other than geocaching.com.