Discussion about "Artist Edition" coins

[+AtwellFamily]

I was recently looking to have someone else produce one of my designs. I took it to a few of the companies Yime mentioned and one in particular said

...we can't pay you that much but we could give you an AE version and based on the sale of those these days, you could get over $10 a coin so you could make $...

So they might not sell them or price them high on their site but they certainly use them to pay the artist and don't mind making a point of it when trying to get a nice idea.

 

You could easily sell those for over $10 a piece on eBay, and there's nothing wrong with that. Putting a coin on eBay and setting it afloat lets the market determine it's value. There's quite a difference...you aren't dictating it's retail value, the people are.

 

Let's say I got a shipment of Nintendo Wii's into my store, and then slapped a $500 price tag on them because I knew from the line outside that I could probably get away with it. Then that's me specifically dictating what those game consoles are worth while they're very popular. Those people are crazy to pay that, but most will because they're caught in the hype, and it's all the rage. Sound anything like geocoin collectors when new coins are released?

 

I suppose you could say I'm preaching about taking some responsibility with keeping prices reasonable here, rather than purposely charging excessive amounts because you know you can get it. People here deserve that kind of respect for the support they continue to give back to the hobby.

 

G'night all.

Let me see if I am understanding you correctly. Yes or No answeres would be great.

 

1. You don't think I should come up with a increase price for and LE or AE just becasue it is an LE or AE?

2. If I sell them on eBay for whatever the market does it is ok?

3. If I sell a few and the market dictates I higher price can I then sell them directly at that price?

4. Is what I did ok, I set a price of $15 for an LE compared to that of $11.50 ofr the other versions, the price on eBay for the same coin a few hours later was $35-50. So as long as my price is less than the eBay market is it ok?

5. Wouldn't selling them for $50 on my site then dropping the price until the market started to buy the same thing as placing them on eBay until the sold?

 

You may need a longer answer to this one; why is eBay the market dictator? Why can't I just price my goods and if they sell they sell and if not I change the price?

 

The Wii is not a good example, there are others selling the same thing and the manufacture creates suggested retail price. Free market might dictate a high or lower price depending on the product. With a geocoin there is usually only one vendor until someone buys an LE or AE and sells it on eBay for more.

 

 

I would argue that the market has created the pricing for LE and AE versions. Collectors wanting what others don't have or being able to show they have it when displaying their coins. If this wasn't the case they wouldn't sell for more on eBay, and artist wouldn't ask to be paid in coins but cash. I think the market has dictated the move to LE and AE not the artist. Maybe the first LE coins opened the crack and the rest have followed.

[YemonYime]

...I have seen a number of people buy up a number of coins or trade for specific coins only to turn around and sell them for big bucks on ebay (non-AE). I've personally sat by and watched people make more money on my designs then I have. Yet AE/XLE coins that an artist is given seems to be held to a different standard, just not understanding that???? It used to bother me but I learned to just accept it as part of the geocoin world.

 

I guess the beef that some people have with names of coins is never going to go away and there are just always going to be those who are looked at more harshly than others. Oh well

 

Heya Tsun, I'd like to clarify my points so that it's not miscontrued by anyone. It's not about looking harshly at artists, because absolutely…artists deserve to be paid for their work. It's about what some artists-turned-retailers are now doing with the terms "LE", "XLE", and "AE", and it's about geocoin collectors demanding responsibility and fair pricing of those same people. Afterall, they've now become retailers. And retailers have the influence to set levels of pricing, which in turn affects perceived value. Some may call it criticism, but it's really consumer feedback. It comes with the neighborhood when you step into the arena as a business.

 

Tsun, you're a great example of what I believe is the responsible thing for an artist-turned-retailer to do. You sell all of your coins (including multiple "LE" versions) for the same price, and you don't sell an even more exclusive "AE" version on your website. (And you are certainly NOT the only one) Heck, I've seen where you give those versions away! Kudos to you for doing that. I believe you’re being responsible because you know that you have a certain following, and realize that you could literally mint money if you wanted to. You recognize that geocoin collectors shouldn’t be paying more for a retail product that costs exactly the same to make as any of the other coins in that particular design. You're not purposely attributing additional value to a "controlled edition" for the purposes of making additional profit. If your customers subsequently turn around and make a profit off of your product...like it or not...that's just the breaks for being a retailer. Anyone who's ever owned or operated a retail business knows that you stand to lose credibility if you try to manipulate or counter-act the aftermarket dealings of your customers. That's why I can't argue with eBay. As much as I don't like it, it's there, and it's uncontrollable. It's used for both good and bad, so I just have to accept that.

 

Some may criticize these "old school" beliefs, but I'm certainly not the only one who's concerned with this recent trend. Besides, isn't it common sense for everyone to want to see ALL geocoin prices at the retail level remain reasonably priced?

 

And in addition...for those of you who still think this is a personal matter, let me give you some perspective of the concept I'm challenging you to understand:

 

I was creating the equivalent of "Artist Edition" coins back before they were ever called that. Back in the fall of 2005, my group and I managed to convince a very stubborn mint to make us only a very small quantity of the 2005 Pennsylvania Geocoins in a different finish and color combination. That was something the mints simply didn't want to do back then, but I wanted each of us who worked on the project to have a memento of our efforts. But I'll fully admit there was a specific ulterior motive behind our "AE" version. We knew we could use the popularity of such an exclusive edition to make some good money. Through the eBay auction of one of only six Black Nickel versions made, our local group raised $1500, and promptly donated every penny towards a deceased geocacher's children's education fund. To this day, members of our organization and beyond continue to create special versions of geocoins to put towards the betterment of those kids. An exclusive version of the TRIGO coin for a couple hundred. The "Steal Your Face" geocoin by Atlanta Gal for over $200. An entire set of the first edition GeoJellies in an exclusive gold finish by pghlooking for $1000. The list goes on.

 

I've seen the concept of "Artist Edition" coins evolve quite a bit here. Some for the good, some for the worse. But from this point on, AE stands for "Altruistic Effort" in my book. I won’t profit from those letters, and I also won’t apologize for NOT doing so.

Edited December 17, 2007 by YemonYime

[+Rockin Roddy]

If you dont like the AE's or have some "problem" with them, simple enough - don't buy them. The market sets the value.

 

I have, do, and will continue to. Thats my choice, and I appreciate the choices I'm given.

 

I fail to see the issue here.

 

"Old-School" collectors have to gripe about something lest they get bored...

I really think everyone gets your point A&T. No need to be rude about it, no need to shoot snide remarks back and forth!! I'd expect this action from some of the other forums, but not here in the coin family!!

 

I agree with Mr Yime and Kealia, making SEVERAL metals merely to profit is a bad way to do business (and really turns me off from buying if you MUST buy a "set" just to get the coin you want). I can understand making a few metals with differing features, but having 5,6,8,10 etc finishes/features is overkill and IMHO, hurts sales. All this really does is make an artificial "commodity". Make the coins and let the buyers dictate what the market will bear. Don't make us buy several just to get the ONE we really want (even the butterfly coins, I would never have ordered 4 coins when I truly only wanted 2. Make what people want and then go from there).

 

I must be missing something here. An artist agrees to design a coin for a less than artisitc person, they get paid for that service (whether it be coins or a fee). Making a coin and calling it something merely to boost interest is false advertisement.

 

I like Tsun's approach here really. Steph makes what she thinks people will like and then goes from there. IF those coins sell out, Steph has another minting made with different metals! SURE, there are now several metals out and about, but OBVIOUSLY, these are sought after as they are in demand..and no one was forced to buy a set to make them happy (and the minters money).

 

I also agree that making a metal/feature for PERSONAL use is great! Makes something special for the person who designed the coin AND gives them something to use for trades and giveaways and such! These coins are more sought after, but since they aren't sold (usually) this is fine and actually helps when trying to raise money for charities and such!

 

ETA: I wasn't smart enough to have an "AE" edition of my Cachestalkers coin made (nor did I realize I shouldn't put ALL the bells and whistles on both coins when calling one an LE), but did have more experience when making our LHD event coin. I had 10 of those made as "XLE's" because I wanted to reward those who helped, wanted to have a special finish for myself and knew I'd want to ebay a few as fund raisers. I think it worked out pretty well!!

Edited December 17, 2007 by Rockin Roddy

[TheNumber1Bop]

Why not just do away with the AE editions and pay the artists in cash instead of coins? Of course, it will make the initial cost to produce a coin more costly. I would think you'd have to pay that up front rather than the artist waiting for 20 or so coins to be sent to them for their time and talent in designing a coin. Just a thought...

[+9Key]

Oops...off topic. Sorry.

Why does my post say "Ringbone"?

[+nielsenc]

 

I understand all the points you make YemonYime and they give me a lot to think about. On the other hand as well...all these AE/XLE's could have a purpose we aren't aware of? Maybe some of these folks are putting the money towards giving away all the Mystery coins?

 

Of the ones I know about, this was not the case.

[+The Moop Along]

**Snip for brevity**

 

You sell all of your coins (including multiple "LE" versions) for the same price, and you don't sell an even more exclusive "AE" version on your website. (And you are certainly NOT the only one)

 

Some may criticize these "old school" beliefs, but I'm certainly not the only one who's concerned with this recent trend. Besides, isn't it common sense for everyone to want to see ALL geocoin prices at the retail level remain reasonably priced?

 

**Snip for brevity**

 

I'm not going to walk into the firing squad here, other than to say that I nearly agree 100% with Yime-O AND Kealia. I also commend true artists like Tsun and Mackey. But, my only point comes in where Dave mentions above about price equality. The biggest issue I see with coins is trying to sell me an LE for $5 more. I'll give you a quarter if you change enamel, or plating, etc. But, where/why did we stop selling the regular AND the LE for the same price? Aren't you simply taking advantage of your customer then? If the regular edition cost you $7.50 and the LE cost you $8, sell them to me for $7.75 each. Everyone's a winner. You can't tell me "normal" retail prices are such that retailers lose money. Please. That's laughable.

 

Breathe . . .

[+The Moop Along]

Oops...off topic. Sorry.

Why does my post say "Ringbone"?

 

Oh stop it Will, you're gonna hurt my feelings

[+Damenace]

Oops...off topic. Sorry.

Why does my post say "Ringbone"?

 

LMAO !!!

[+AtwellFamily]

**Snip for brevity**

 

You sell all of your coins (including multiple "LE" versions) for the same price, and you don't sell an even more exclusive "AE" version on your website. (And you are certainly NOT the only one)

 

Some may criticize these "old school" beliefs, but I'm certainly not the only one who's concerned with this recent trend. Besides, isn't it common sense for everyone to want to see ALL geocoin prices at the retail level remain reasonably priced?

 

**Snip for brevity**

 

I'm not going to walk into the firing squad here, other than to say that I nearly agree 100% with Yime-O AND Kealia. I also commend true artists like Tsun and Mackey. But, my only point comes in where Dave mentions above about price equality. The biggest issue I see with coins is trying to sell me an LE for $5 more. I'll give you a quarter if you change enamel, or plating, etc. But, where/why did we stop selling the regular AND the LE for the same price? Aren't you simply taking advantage of your customer then? If the regular edition cost you $7.50 and the LE cost you $8, sell them to me for $7.75 each. Everyone's a winner. You can't tell me "normal" retail prices are such that retailers lose money. Please. That's laughable.

 

Breathe . . .

Look everyone does the LE thing:

 

Gamecube

 

Platinum $79, Black, $35 and Blue $45, no one believes they cost different do they?

 

Ok, yeah I know , if someone jumped off a cliff would you.... no but I woudl like to understand the other side of the question. Devils advicate, as I said only marked up the LE Morpho a bit to help keep the price of the others resasonable.

 

I price them at $15 and the market (eBay) sells them at $35. Should I have just listed the 100 on eBay until they sold old? Would that have been a better thing? That seems ok here for everyone, as long as I don't establish the price then I can sell for what the market will pay. Or is that still not ok? I should sell them for the same price and let allthose people who want to resellthem on eBay for 3 times my rate make the money of of my design and product? Nice catch 22, artist sells coins for higher p[rice not good, customer sells coins to make a big profit OK.

Edited December 17, 2007 by Atwell Family

[+The Moop Along]

**Snip for brevity**

 

You sell all of your coins (including multiple "LE" versions) for the same price, and you don't sell an even more exclusive "AE" version on your website. (And you are certainly NOT the only one)

 

Some may criticize these "old school" beliefs, but I'm certainly not the only one who's concerned with this recent trend. Besides, isn't it common sense for everyone to want to see ALL geocoin prices at the retail level remain reasonably priced?

 

**Snip for brevity**

 

I'm not going to walk into the firing squad here, other than to say that I nearly agree 100% with Yime-O AND Kealia. I also commend true artists like Tsun and Mackey. But, my only point comes in where Dave mentions above about price equality. The biggest issue I see with coins is trying to sell me an LE for $5 more. I'll give you a quarter if you change enamel, or plating, etc. But, where/why did we stop selling the regular AND the LE for the same price? Aren't you simply taking advantage of your customer then? If the regular edition cost you $7.50 and the LE cost you $8, sell them to me for $7.75 each. Everyone's a winner. You can't tell me "normal" retail prices are such that retailers lose money. Please. That's laughable.

 

Breathe . . .

Look everyone does the LE thing:

 

Gamecube

 

Platinum $79, Black, $35 and Blue $45, no one believes they cost different do they?

 

Ok, yeah I know , if someone jumped off a cliff would you.... no but I woudl like to understand the other side of the question. Devils advicate, as I said only marked up the LE Morpho a bit to help keep the price of the others resasonable.

 

I price them at $15 and the market (eBay) sells them at $35. Should I have just listed the 100 on eBay until they sold old? Would that have been a better thing? That seems ok here for everyone, as long as I don't establish the price then I can sell for what the market will pay. Or is that still not ok? I should sell them for the same price and let allthose people who want to resellthem on eBay for 3 times my rate make the money of of my design and product? Nice catch 22, artist sells coins for higher p[rice not good, customer sells coins to make a big profit OK.

 

Alright, I'll bite here. Against my better judgement, but OK. First off, use a real example. The higher priced Gamecubes come with accessories, and some are used. Geez

 

Anyway, in my OPINION, it comes down to when your customers stop being your friend, and become simply a bank account to you. Remember, some people believe that you (not you personally, throughout this paragraph) are here to make friends and enjoy geocoins. So, yes, if you don't have any friends or belief in kinship, sell them all on Ebay, one at a time, and make $50 a piece. I won't lose sleep over it, and I don't have to buy it. Sell the LE in your webstore for $10 more, make 15 versions, and take advantage of the poor soul who just has to have every metal. Or, you can step back, realize that you are here to add positive notes, and sell them in your webstore or in the threads at a reasonable markup, and a common price. You should certainly profit from your venture, so it's up to you to pick that number.

 

I'm (We're) kinda derailing the whole Artist Edition thing here, so I'll not respond anymore unless directed towards AEs. Not that I don't care.

 

--Ringbone

Edited December 17, 2007 by The Moop Along

[+The Moop Along]

 

Alright, I'll bite here. Against my better judgement, but OK. First off, use a real example. The higher priced Gamecubes come with accessories. Geez

 

Anyway, in my OPINION, it comes down to when your customers stop being your friend, and become simply a bank account to you. Remember, some people believe that you (not you personally, throughout this paragraph) are here to make friends and enjoy geocoins. So, yes, if you don't have any friends or belief in kinship, sell them all on Ebay, one at a time, and make $50 a piece. I won't lose sleep over it, and I don't have to buy it. Sell the LE in your webstore for $10 more, make 15 versions, and take advantage of the poor soul who just has to have every metal. Or, you can step back, realize that you are here to add positive notes, and sell them in your webstore or in the threads at a reasonable markup, and a common price. You should certainly profit from your venture, so it's up to you to pick that number.

 

I'm (We're) kinda derailing the whole Artist Edition thing here, so I'll not respond anymore unless directed towards AEs. Not that I don't care.

 

--Ringbone

 

Why does my post say Moop Along??

[+MustangJoni]

Oops...off topic. Sorry.

Why does my post say "Ringbone"?

 

LMAO !!!

 

Ya'll are just too funny!

[TheNumber1Bop]

[

 

I price them at $15 and the market (eBay) sells them at $35. Should I have just listed the 100 on eBay until they sold old? Would that have been a better thing? That seems ok here for everyone, as long as I don't establish the price then I can sell for what the market will pay. Or is that still not ok? I should sell them for the same price and let allthose people who want to resellthem on eBay for 3 times my rate make the money of of my design and product? Nice catch 22, artist sells coins for higher p[rice not good, customer sells coins to make a big profit OK.

 

I agree...it seems that everyone's entitled to make a profit on a coin except the artist that created it.

[+AtwellFamily]

**Snip for brevity**

 

You sell all of your coins (including multiple "LE" versions) for the same price, and you don't sell an even more exclusive "AE" version on your website. (And you are certainly NOT the only one)

 

Some may criticize these "old school" beliefs, but I'm certainly not the only one who's concerned with this recent trend. Besides, isn't it common sense for everyone to want to see ALL geocoin prices at the retail level remain reasonably priced?

 

**Snip for brevity**

 

I'm not going to walk into the firing squad here, other than to say that I nearly agree 100% with Yime-O AND Kealia. I also commend true artists like Tsun and Mackey. But, my only point comes in where Dave mentions above about price equality. The biggest issue I see with coins is trying to sell me an LE for $5 more. I'll give you a quarter if you change enamel, or plating, etc. But, where/why did we stop selling the regular AND the LE for the same price? Aren't you simply taking advantage of your customer then? If the regular edition cost you $7.50 and the LE cost you $8, sell them to me for $7.75 each. Everyone's a winner. You can't tell me "normal" retail prices are such that retailers lose money. Please. That's laughable.

 

Breathe . . .

Look everyone does the LE thing:

 

Gamecube

 

Platinum $79, Black, $35 and Blue $45, no one believes they cost different do they?

 

Ok, yeah I know , if someone jumped off a cliff would you.... no but I woudl like to understand the other side of the question. Devils advicate, as I said only marked up the LE Morpho a bit to help keep the price of the others resasonable.

 

I price them at $15 and the market (eBay) sells them at $35. Should I have just listed the 100 on eBay until they sold old? Would that have been a better thing? That seems ok here for everyone, as long as I don't establish the price then I can sell for what the market will pay. Or is that still not ok? I should sell them for the same price and let allthose people who want to resellthem on eBay for 3 times my rate make the money of of my design and product? Nice catch 22, artist sells coins for higher p[rice not good, customer sells coins to make a big profit OK.

 

Alright, I'll bite here. Against my better judgement, but OK. First off, use a real example. The higher priced Gamecubes come with accessories, and some are used. Geez

 

Anyway, in my OPINION, it comes down to when your customers stop being your friend, and become simply a bank account to you. Remember, some people believe that you (not you personally, throughout this paragraph) are here to make friends and enjoy geocoins. So, yes, if you don't have any friends or belief in kinship, sell them all on Ebay, one at a time, and make $50 a piece. I won't lose sleep over it, and I don't have to buy it. Sell the LE in your webstore for $10 more, make 15 versions, and take advantage of the poor soul who just has to have every metal. Or, you can step back, realize that you are here to add positive notes, and sell them in your webstore or in the threads at a reasonable markup, and a common price. You should certainly profit from your venture, so it's up to you to pick that number.

 

I'm (We're) kinda derailing the whole Artist Edition thing here, so I'll not respond anymore unless directed towards AEs. Not that I don't care.

 

--Ringbone

I would agree with a lot you are saying. I am just trying to understand the issue people have. As yo know I did markup the LE Morpho a bit. I currecly have recieved AE for the Be Prepared coin and the Geolicious and both were sold at a reasonable price. If fact I sold a large number of the scouting coin at cost to someone who had first talked about the idea with me. I did all the work on the coin from concept, design and taking to mint.

 

I like playing alone on these things sometimes.

 

--TMA

[+GEO*Trailblazer 1]

AP (With Artwork)

The artist's proofs were given to the artist usually as payment for the signing of the edition. The normal number of artist's proofs is 50. In some cases (usually prints purchased for stock from other publishers) it may be higher. The artist's proofs are signed by the artist and numbered showing the quantity of artists proofs available. Because of their restricted number artist's proofs are sold at a higher price. Nowadays, as the artists are paid a signing fee, the publisher keeps a percentage of the artist's proofs for resale.

 

It is considered, especially in the United States, when the edition is sold out and a secondary market value is realised, an artist's proof will go up in value at a greater percentage rate than the limited edition. Normally the artist's proofs are sold out well before the complete edition and a secondary market value for the artist's proof will begin to increase in value well before the edition is sold out.

 

WI KI AP

 

Now I am not sure how we are all trying to catagorize these things.

As an Artist I know about some of the terminology.

 

Since the coins are not signed by the artist how can they be called Artists Proofs?

And they are not consecutivly numbered..well some editions really are.

Of the editions that are,

Does that make them even more valuable?

 

I am not on either side I am just trying to learn myself.

[+ThirstyMick]

Why is twice the cost on ebay better than from the artists own store??? As a customer, I'd rather not be forced to use ebay. I don't have an account and I don't intend on making one. If you're saying that in order to be fair, the artist must sell their coins on ebay; well I guess I won't be getting any.

 

I also don't see why it's so terrible for an artist to be paid in their own special version of the coin, and then sell it, or trade it or whatever. It has a value to whoever is buying it. If it didn't, it wouldn't get purchased.

 

And as for the comments about the 15 versions of different coins.. Yeah, maybe its a bit excessive from a collectors standpoint; but honestly when I've seen those I've never seen it as making 12 LE versions that we all *have* to have. If you need to buy 12 for a set, what's the point? I think it's about options. The people who hang out in the forums are only a small slice of the geocaching community, and I'd be willing to bet that most people who buy coins don't even know that they aren't supposed to be putting them in caches I was glad that another run of the Letterboxing coins was done (in an even better color combination!) b/c they make sweet Hybrid cache FTF prizes!

People buying the AEs are probably collectors, but these two topics seem to be different arguments running in parallel in this thread....

[+fox-and-the-hound]

Why not just do away with the AE editions and pay the artists in cash instead of coins? Of course, it will make the initial cost to produce a coin more costly. I would think you'd have to pay that up front rather than the artist waiting for 20 or so coins to be sent to them for their time and talent in designing a coin. Just a thought...

 

Interesting question. Let's take a look at reality. If this were purely business and nothing else...

 

I charge $40-$50 an hour for design as a professional for graphic design and $100 an hour for animation (hey I spent $150,000 on a degree, 5 years of schooling and 20 years of my life learning how do it!). I typically spend well over 25 hours total from beginning to end on current designs. So if you've hired me (and I'm actually cheap in the "real world"), you've just added ($40x25) $1000 - $1250 to the price of your coins. If your production cost was say $2000 and now with an artist cost of $1000+ your total is now 50-60% higher if everything goes smoothly. To cover the cost of a coin your wanted to sell for $10 each you will now have to sell them at $15 each. Now imagine that you've gone through 10 months of revisions like the new Queen of Caching coin. How much do you think that would cost you?

 

Would I ever charge "real" prices to design coins? No. If I could, I might have gone into a coin business long ago. Instead, I get to create and enjoy and help others realize their dreams. No packing or shipping or collecting address for me! I'll enjoy my cup of joe, looking out the window of my home office and listening to my son snore away

 

I understand what Yime is saying. I agree that most may never agree with my personal views of the AE, but I say let natural selection take it's toll. If people are abusing the system, they'll get what karma delivers back. I've seen people come and go in design and coin production and I haven't been around that long. People remember you, what you do, and what you stand for. I'll leave it up to them to decide what to do about what they see happening.

[+Damenace]

Why not just do away with the AE editions

 

Why not just do away with sockpuppets?

[TheNumber1Bop]

I agree. But even if you don't add the amount that you normally charge for your hourly work ($1000), if you were just to add the equivalent of the profits you receive from the sale of your 20 or so artist edition coins, it would still knock a lot of potential coin designs out of the market because of costs. I would think it helps the average person that wants to produce a coin, that the artist will accept and wait to receive their AE coins as payment.

[+fox-and-the-hound]

I agree. But even if you don't add the amount that you normally charge for your hourly work ($1000), if you were just to add the equivalent of the profits you receive from the sale of your 20 or so artist edition coins, it would still knock a lot of potential coin designs out of the market because of costs. I would think it helps the average person that wants to produce a coin, that the artist will accept and wait to receive their AE coins as payment.

 

Let's do the math then... $1000 (that's the low end) divided by 20 coins.... well then we're back to selling AEs at $50 each. Conversely we could accept 100 regular edition coins valued at $10 each, but I don't think that's going to help anybody. We're also making an assumption that an artist would ever sell an AE or that the AE is even nice enough that anyone would want to buy it. Everyone is going to have their own motives, but accepting coins as payment for work definitely helps our hobby in the long run. The reality is that no matter how many AEs we ever see sold or what they might sell for, the practice of an AE has probably kept prices down on outstanding coins available to the average cacher more than anyone realizes.

[Ferreter5]

LE/XLE/AE/E-I-E-O...

 

Me personally... If it doesn't involve things like the following, then it ain't special enough from the regular edition to warrant significantly higher pricing:

 

- New dies

- Significantly more expensive materials

- Significantly more expensive processes

 

Minting 10 plated in copper vs the 500 plated in silver doesn't make those 10 more valuable (to me) -- aesthetics aside. Yes, the 10 are more rare and some will think they are worth way more buckages. Good for them. I hope the enjoy them! I know I enjoy the various geocoins I have.

Edited December 17, 2007 by Ferreter5

[YemonYime]

...it seems that everyone's entitled to make a profit on a coin except the artist that created it.

 

You seem to be trying to drum up a dramatic and/or sympathetic angle for something that's already been determined to be perfectly acceptable, if not outright encouraged by geocoin collectors. That's been established already. What's in question here is the undeniable potential for said artist to charge excessive profits because of their unique positioning within this community.

 

We're seeing a growing amount of artist/marketer/broker/distributor/retailers, all wrapped up in one (or more) interactive GC ID(s). They are operating as a business on these forums, yet also as a co-posting friend. This is a very unique form of trust-based retail that's surely worth protecting with a system of checks and balances.

 

My opinion is only a small part of the system of checks and balances we have in place to prevent the next generation of vendors from realizing that they too can easily manipulate their production quantities in such a manner, and make excessive profits from the people they can easily gain trust from here.

 

And so my opinion was very clear. Charging $29.99, $34.99, or 65.99 for an "AE" geocoin is downright excessive, and not at all "trying to get paid", regardless of what that person "might" get on eBay for it. Some may not agree with that, but it's my opinion as a consumer, which many others here do share. Without critical consumer feedback, what's to stop prices from continuing to rise? When that vendor boldly states to everyone here that the coin is valued at $65.99, and people here are smart enough to know that it didn't cost more than $5 to make...the consumers have spoken. I say don't insult our intelligence, or take advantage of our community here.

[Flying Spaghetti Monster]

Lest anybody think that Eartha and I are not aware of this thread, we are.

 

As mentioned numerous times before however, we are not online 24x7 to react to each and every post in real-time. We rely on the community to make sure that everybody stays within reason while posting, and to report those who do not.

 

So, now Eartha and I have some reading and catching up to do to see how things "progressed" overnight. Just because no actions have been taken yet, does not guarantee that no action will be taken for posts in this thread.

 

From a quick glance, I'd say the majority os posts in here are fine. The rest will be looked at.

So please feel free to continue the (civil) discussion.

[+AtwellFamily]

Lest anybody think that Eartha and I are not aware of this thread, we are.

 

As mentioned numerous times before however, we are not online 24x7 to react to each and every post in real-time. We rely on the community to make sure that everybody stays within reason while posting, and to report those who do not.

 

So, now Eartha and I have some reading and catching up to do to see how things "progressed" overnight. Just because no actions have been taken yet, does not guarantee that no action will be taken for posts in this thread.

 

From a quick glance, I'd say the majority os posts in here are fine. The rest will be looked at.

So please feel free to continue the (civil) discussion.

That's funny I was think that this is one of the few discussions like this that has stayed mostly civil. Different opinions yes but noting to insulting, just reasonable opinions that for the most part have been well spoken.

 

Thanks everyone, nice to have a real debate without it getting out of hand.

[+PengoFamily]

Wow! Some interesting reading. Guess I'll trhow in my 2 geocents too. To ME, PengoMommy, Chantal (just so you know who's posting) the definition of an 'Artist Edition' is to compensate the artist for their artwork, ideas, designs, or drawings that become a geocoin. I think it's a nice way to be compensated for sharing ideas. I am fairly new to designing and I do it for 2 reasons. 1) For the fun of seeing an idea created and for othrs to enjoy it. It's fun to see what other's think of your ideas 2) to have AE's for trade. I think I have sold one on ebay and that's it and it went for $12 LOL...the rest are all for trading, gifting, etc. Personally I love trading and that is what I want them for. And I trade for 'regular' coins too. Just whatever I like.

 

I can understand why some people sell them on ebay and I think it's their choice. People need to make ends meet and I respect that.

 

But I do understand where it does not seem right to charge exorbant amounts for them. (guess it's time to put on the flame retardant suit) but I do not agree with continuous remints of every metal imaginable in limited amounts to have continuous LE's. But if people continue to pay for them then there must be a demand. That's just my opnion and not meant to be directed at anyone in particular.

 

Merry Christmas!! It's a week away!!!

[+Hula Bum]

Yime, you need to get with the times.... It's not about giving an artist a special token of thanks for his/her work (you have a few of those from us), it's about the cold hard cash. Crud, are u gonna want us to re-mint 30 AE's for you now?

 

I think it's time that us old schoolers accept that it's not the community it once was, that coins are not what they once were and let go.

[+nielsenc]

What about those Gold Alaksa AE/XLE coins going for over $1,000 each!

[YemonYime]

Yime, you need to get with the times.... It's not about giving an artist a special token of thanks for his/her work (you have a few of those from us), it's about the cold hard cash. Crud, are u gonna want us to re-mint 30 AE's for you now?

 

Nah, just send me a kidney.

[+ArtieD]

I guess I still fail to see the angst. A coin buyer has two options to consider:

 

1. If you think the price is right and want the coin for the price listed, buy it.

 

2. If you think the price is too high and do not want the coin for the price listed, don't buy it.

 

Past that, I fail to see where there's any discussion.

[YemonYime]

What about those Gold Alaksa AE/XLE coins going for over $1,000 each!

 

Don't know what the going rate for gold is, but if I bit into one and tasted brass... Lookout Alice!

[+Renegade Knight]

What about those Gold Alaksa AE/XLE coins going for over $1,000 each!

 

The first ones they did in silver were artificially expensive. Call the coin 5 bucks base price including profit. The Die is a sunk cost and the metal at the time was what? 8 bucks an Oz? They charged a lot more than 13 bucks. I blame that one on the mint overcharging for the metal.

 

Now if the mint had to polish the die and do a double strike process (similar to the Bullion vs. Proof Silver Liberty coins from the US Mint) for the run in silver and only made 40...then maybe I can see that. But they never said that.

[+Rockin Roddy]

I guess I still fail to see the angst. A coin buyer has two options to consider:

 

1. If you think the price is right and want the coin for the price listed, buy it.

 

2. If you think the price is too high and do not want the coin for the price listed, don't buy it.

 

Past that, I fail to see where there's any discussion.

That's all fine and good, but newer collectors only see what is going on NOW. If the older buyers don't buy but the newer buyers do (not realizing the difference), they still get bought and the market feels the effect from then on!

 

Example: When I first started buying, coins were around $6-$7 range! Where are they now?

I think it was TMA who said something about protecting each other (or whatever it was), I think this is an example of what was meant!

[+AtwellFamily]

I guess I still fail to see the angst. A coin buyer has two options to consider:

 

1. If you think the price is right and want the coin for the price listed, buy it.

 

2. If you think the price is too high and do not want the coin for the price listed, don't buy it.

 

Past that, I fail to see where there's any discussion.

This is a community.....and

 

you don't rape and pillage the customers because you want to (ie. sell for whatever price you set)

you rape and pillage them because they want you to (ie. sell on eBay for what ever you can get)

 

 

I am with A&T here. I buy the coins I like at the prices I like. (CAPITALISM) If I don't like either I don't buy. I don't see how this is hurting the community. Or if I wanted to produce a coin and sell it for $20 would hurt it either. At somepoint the market will adjust. I believe it as, there was a thread about decreased sales on a coin and that was the market adjusting (price, theme, quality, etc). You use to make a coin and sell 250 no problem, now that is not the case. Market (community) correction.

 

edited for: I side with A&T on this small issue, of I buy what I like. I can't stand him otherwise.

Edited December 17, 2007 by Atwell Family

[+nielsenc]

What about those Gold Alaksa AE/XLE coins going for over $1,000 each!

 

The first ones they did in silver were artificially expensive. Call the coin 5 bucks base price including profit. The Die is a sunk cost and the metal at the time was what? 8 bucks an Oz? They charged a lot more than 13 bucks. I blame that one on the mint overcharging for the metal.

 

Now if the mint had to polish the die and do a double strike process (similar to the Bullion vs. Proof Silver Liberty coins from the US Mint) for the run in silver and only made 40...then maybe I can see that. But they never said that.

 

I had a chance to glance at the Gold/Silver coins. I think they are worth every penny. You do pay more than spot rate for Gold/Silver blanks. Esp when you do a run of 10 not 1000...

 

Sorry to derail the thread a bit, I guess I should have put in the .

[+AtwellFamily]

Where is pghlooking? This discussion seems right up his alley...

[+The Moop Along]

Where is pghlooking? This discussion seems right up his alley...

 

It's the finish of the first class mailing deadline. I'm betting he's taking a nap (or wishing he was).

[+fox-and-the-hound]

Yime, you need to get with the times.... It's not about giving an artist a special token of thanks for his/her work (you have a few of those from us), it's about the cold hard cash.

 

Really? I better go count up my cold, hard mountains of cash then. Oh wait, I've never received any cold hard cash for an AE. Then again, I've never personally sold an AE. Please stop lumping every artist into one group of like-minded people. We're as diverse as any people and the last time I checked, I still only get AEs as a token of thanks (if I get them at all). If you have a problem with how someone handles something, call them on it. Just please don't call their neighbors into it, too.

[+fox-and-the-hound]

What about those Gold Alaksa AE/XLE coins going for over $1,000 each!

 

The first ones they did in silver were artificially expensive. Call the coin 5 bucks base price including profit. The Die is a sunk cost and the metal at the time was what? 8 bucks an Oz? They charged a lot more than 13 bucks. I blame that one on the mint overcharging for the metal.

 

Now if the mint had to polish the die and do a double strike process (similar to the Bullion vs. Proof Silver Liberty coins from the US Mint) for the run in silver and only made 40...then maybe I can see that. But they never said that.

 

You'll have to forgive me if I'm misquoting, but I believe that particular mint clearly states that they DO polish AND double-strike them. It's a significantly more expensive way of making coins I believe. I checked on the price for making my own in silver at the time and was told the price was $14-21 per ounce (dependent on purity). I'll have to go back and check my numbers, but I believe that was the price.

 

edit for spelling as usual

Edited December 17, 2007 by fox-and-the-hound

[+Rockin Roddy]

I guess I still fail to see the angst. A coin buyer has two options to consider:

 

1. If you think the price is right and want the coin for the price listed, buy it.

 

2. If you think the price is too high and do not want the coin for the price listed, don't buy it.

 

Past that, I fail to see where there's any discussion.

This is a community.....and

 

you don't rape and pillage the customers because you want to (ie. sell for whatever price you set)

you rape and pillage them because they want you to (ie. sell on eBay for what ever you can get)

 

 

I am with A&T here. I buy the coins I like at the prices I like. (CAPITALISM) If I don't like either I don't buy. I don't see how this is hurting the community. Or if I wanted to produce a coin and sell it for $20 would hurt it either. At somepoint the market will adjust. I believe it as, there was a thread about decreased sales on a coin and that was the market adjusting (price, theme, quality, etc). You use to make a coin and sell 250 no problem, now that is not the case. Market (community) correction.

 

edited for: I side with A&T on this small issue, of I buy what I like. I can't stand him otherwise.

Or maybe the reason for less sales is higher prices. Since the prices have risen, the sales have dropped (if I'm following this trend correctly).

 

You most certainly can make a coin and sell it for $20 here, and I'm sure there will be those buying them. How much you charged is the reason for the lower sales. Eventually, someone else will see that you sold your coin for $20 and think "why not" and sell theirs at that price as well...and so on and so forth. Now, the older buyers will stop buying and figure out a MUCH cheaper way to acquire the coins they want, while the more naive newer buyer will see this as the norm and buy! Still don't see how this hurts the community?

 

I treat this community as I would my own family (mainly because I consider this community as "my family")...I wouldn't rape and pillage my family for ANY reason....but that's just me!

 

edit for spelling as usual

Edited December 17, 2007 by Rockin Roddy

[+Hula Bum]

Fox, no need to get defensive, that was to yime and moop and the rest of us caught in a time warp, not you. I rarely come into the boards anymore, it's just not worth it to me. I am an old timer and I liked it the way it was, when you emailed or called someone up in here and asked for their help. Then when all was said and done you sent them a little something special and they were tickled pink (or yellow or lime). Nobody would ever dream of selling those special coins off, heck, they didn't even have a name attached to them.

[+Rockin Roddy]

What about those Gold Alaksa AE/XLE coins going for over $1,000 each!

 

The first ones they did in silver were artificially expensive. Call the coin 5 bucks base price including profit. The Die is a sunk cost and the metal at the time was what? 8 bucks an Oz? They charged a lot more than 13 bucks. I blame that one on the mint overcharging for the metal.

 

Now if the mint had to polish the die and do a double strike process (similar to the Bullion vs. Proof Silver Liberty coins from the US Mint) for the run in silver and only made 40...then maybe I can see that. But they never said that.

 

You'll have to forgive me if I'm misquoting, but I believe that particular mint clearly states that they DO polish AND double-strike them. It's a significantly more expensive way of making coins I believe. I checked on the price for making my own in silver at the time and was told the price was $14-21 per ounce (dependent on purity). I'll have to go back and check my numbers, but I believe that was the price.

 

edit for spelling as usual

 

solid silver coins are a favorite of mine! I bought one of those silver/gold relief coins for a present (shhhhhh...it's a secret)

[+Renegade Knight]

...You'll have to forgive me if I'm misquoting, but I believe that particular mint clearly states that they DO polish AND double-strike them. It's a significantly more expensive way of making coins I believe. I checked on the price for making my own in silver at the time and was told the price was $14-21 per ounce (dependent on purity). I'll have to go back and check my numbers, but I believe that was the price.

 

edit for spelling as usual

At the time of my orginal rant a couple of years ago, I didn't know about such things. Later I bought a treasury proof and they did talk about such things but it mean't nothing. I then bought a silver bullion version of the same coin and saw the difference.

 

Now you go and tell me that the Alaska Mint does that...Thanks, Just thanks, now I've got to let one of my rants go...

[+Rockin Roddy]

Fox, no need to get defensive, that was to yime and moop and the rest of us caught in a time warp, not you. I rarely come into the boards anymore, it's just not worth it to me. I am an old timer and I liked it the way it was, when you emailed or called someone up in here and asked for their help. Then when all was said and done you sent them a little something special and they were tickled pink (or yellow or lime). Nobody would ever dream of selling those special coins off, heck, they didn't even have a name attached to them.

 

I've got a name for them....CHERISHED!!! And they'd NEVER get sold!! But I do agree HB!!

[+AtwellFamily]

Or maybe the reason for less sales is higher prices. Since the prices have risen, the sales have dropped (if I'm following this trend correctly).

Agreed. Market (community) has spoken.

 

You most certainly can make a coin and sell it for $20 here, and I'm sure there will be those buying them. How much you charged is the reason for the lower sales. Eventually, someone else will see that you sold your coin for $20 and think "why not" and sell theirs at that price as well...and so on and so forth. Now, the older buyers will stop buying and figure out a MUCH cheaper way to aquire the coins they want, while the more naive newer buyer will see this as the norm and buy! Still don't see how this hurts the community?

This is a microcosm of any economy. Newer buyers will learn and the cost of minting has gone up but not that much, and there s always a thread somewhere that tells us "...we all know it cost $5 to ake a coin..."

 

I treat this community as I would my own family (mainly because I consider this community as "my family")...I wouldn't rape and pillage my family for ANY reason....but that's just me!

Selling my LE's at $15, I wouldn't call that rape and pillage either, espeacilly when they get sold 10 minutes later on eBay for $35. In fact I think, most producers don't rape and pillage it is the eBay market that does that.

 

Sorry, we are staying from topic.

 

I am getting a coin done in the new year and getting a few coins for the idea and such. How would you "old timers" like me to handle the sale/trade of these? Can I sell for $15 on my site or put them on eBay? or is there another price that is Ok, like the suggested retail price from the cooin company, the price they sell the regular edition for?

 

I hope everyone understands I am having fun with the discussion and realize I may or may not be one of those people you were talking about, sense the statements were so vast and non-specific.

[+Landsharkz]

Thanks to the folks who have sent a nice note asking to see our Snow Globe APPLE - I don't think we've ever posted photos of our APPLES - I'll confirm this with Chris .

Our APPLE Christmas Snow Globe is not for sale - our APPLEs of any coin are never sold for profit(eering ). This one will be gifted only - sorry folks. I guess we're old school on this one even though we've not been around as long as many of our fellow designers and producers.

[+fox-and-the-hound]

Fox, no need to get defensive, that was to yime and moop and the rest of us caught in a time warp, not you. I rarely come into the boards anymore, it's just not worth it to me. I am an old timer and I liked it the way it was, when you emailed or called someone up in here and asked for their help. Then when all was said and done you sent them a little something special and they were tickled pink (or yellow or lime). Nobody would ever dream of selling those special coins off, heck, they didn't even have a name attached to them.

 

But it's so much fun in here! Seriously, no offense taken, I just like to keep it straight that other people's actions (artist or cacher) don't always represent everyone around them and blanket statements can certainly make it seem that way. Didn't realize their might be an inside wink in there!

[YemonYime]

Fox, no need to get defensive, that was to yime and moop and the rest of us caught in a time warp, not you. I rarely come into the boards anymore, it's just not worth it to me. I am an old timer and I liked it the way it was, when you emailed or called someone up in here and asked for their help. Then when all was said and done you sent them a little something special and they were tickled pink (or yellow or lime). Nobody would ever dream of selling those special coins off, heck, they didn't even have a name attached to them.

 

But it's so much fun in here! Seriously, no offense taken, I just like to keep it straight that other people's actions (artist or cacher) don't always represent everyone around them and blanket statements can certainly make it seem that way. Didn't realize their might be an inside wink in there!

 

She winks at me all the time, man. I keep trying to tell her that 'ol Precious Puss might be watching, but she's a flirty one, that Bum...

[+The Moop Along]

Fox, no need to get defensive, that was to yime and moop and the rest of us caught in a time warp, not you. I rarely come into the boards anymore, it's just not worth it to me. I am an old timer and I liked it the way it was, when you emailed or called someone up in here and asked for their help. Then when all was said and done you sent them a little something special and they were tickled pink (or yellow or lime). Nobody would ever dream of selling those special coins off, heck, they didn't even have a name attached to them.

 

But it's so much fun in here! Seriously, no offense taken, I just like to keep it straight that other people's actions (artist or cacher) don't always represent everyone around them and blanket statements can certainly make it seem that way. Didn't realize their might be an inside wink in there!

 

She winks at me all the time, man. I keep trying to tell her that 'ol Precious Puss might be watching, but she's a flirty one, that Bum...

 

LOL

[+jangor]

This is all very interesting to us. What percentage of a minting constitutes an LE/XLE/AE etc.? If we do a run of 500 coins in 6 finishes, broken down 234, 73, 73, 40, 40 and 40, which is the LE etc.? From our point of view, none of them qualify. We just want a variety so everyone can get a finish they like. All the finishes have meaning to us and if someone wants a set they can have them at regular price. We designed the coin and did the artwork (way too many hours spent on that but it was fun) so there is no artist to pay. However, if we had someone else do the artwork, we would have to pay a bit more for the coins or have to pay an outside artist and in that case, if they wanted an AE as payment, great. They earned it and could sell the coins for what ever the market would bear. More power to them.

 

Artists have a talent and deserve to get paid. We aren't artists by any stretch of the imagination, so doing a design and the artwork is just a hobby and part of the fun of making a coin and we don't feel we need anything extra for it.

 

Just our humble opinion and what works for us. To each his own.