My Problem with solving Puzzles Caches

[+WeatherednBoston]

I have been geocaching for a few years and I do enjoy it very much until it comes to the Puzzle caches.

 

You see im just a regular girl who is not as educated as the "Bulk" of geocachers out there. Most of you have had years of college while myself...well I didn't have the chance to further my education because I was a single mom at the age of 16 and had other important things to take care of during my life.

 

So...puzzle caches....they are so very hard for me to solve. A few cachers in my area have been very nice about it. Some have sat with me at events and tried to show me how they solve some of the caches and I have appreciated that very much but still my brain just doesnt let it sink in.

 

Try teaching auto mechanics to someone who doesnt even know what a car is....and well you get the drift.

 

I took the time today to try to solve a new puzzle in my area and even though it looked hard I think I had solved it. But im very unsure about my skills here so I emailed the placer of the cache looking for confirmation on the coords I had provided them I also asked if they could provide a coord checker in the cache discription. They emailed me back within 2 minutes and said "I think having the checker out

there makes it a bit easier." and that was that. No confirmation of my coords. So I email back again asking if they could let me know if my coords were correct or if I was even close and well they just ignored me and wont return my email.

 

I guess the only reason I am writing this is to vent my frustrations. Maybe alot of the geocachers out there think its easy for everyone to solve puzzles and I want you to know that its NOT easy for some of us.

 

For the people who have as much trouble as I do...for the ones that are so unsure about thier puzzle solving skills well I speak for them. If your gonna be making puzzle caches the least you can do is confirm the coordinates when people email you.

 

If you have no intention of confirming the cords...you should atleast put that in your cache description that you will not confirm coords so people like myself wont waste several hours of thier time trying to solve them.

 

I have a massave headache from trying to solve the puzzle...which was magnified by the fact I now have no way of confirming my solution.

 

Do I really need to contact all the people who's puzzles I want to solve before hand to see if they will confirm the coords before I waste my time? Well it looks so to me.

 

Please...the moral of this story that I want you all to get from reading this is...not all geocachers are brain surgeons, IT Professionals and other things that require years and years of a college education. Geocachers are made up of all kinds of people...please consider this when doing the puzzle caches...help those that need it...atleast help by comfirming coordinates. Please continue to put out the tough puzzles but the least you can do is understand where I'm coming from.

[+hydnsek]

I don't think a college education has much to do with puzzle-solving ability. I have a degree, and there are plenty of puzzles I am clueless on. My mind just doesn't work like some of the cache owners. And there are puzzles that require computer programming or engineering skills, which I didn't study in college and can't google.

 

But I've found plenty of puzzles that require more basic trivia knowledge that can be easily looked up: the names of the seven dwarves (y'know, from Snow White), the birth order of the Brady Bunch kids (from TV), the ages of the Sound of Music siblings, etc. Or Sudokus - there are online solvers for those. And more 'easy' puzzles I'm just not remembering off the top. That said, I will admit that having a science degree does help with the puzzles involving genetics and the periodic table (chemistry).

 

So, it's not about education usually. And if your head hurts - don't do 'em! Not every cache is for every one, which is why I ignore a lotta puzzles in my area.

 

As for the cache owner who thinks a coordinate checker will make the puzzle "easy" - how's that? It only confirms if you've solved it right, unless your goal is to send folks on wild goose chases. They need a slap upside the head with a wet fish, and an etiquette lesson in responding to emails.

Edited November 17, 2007 by hydnsek

[+egami]

Not to detract from you post because it's certainly probable that someone will read this and have it resonate with them...however, have you considered just kind of blowing those off? I mean, geocaching is for enjoyment, and for some people difficulty of puzzles may be what drives them and if all the puzzle caches were....watered down...then they'd be on the opposite end of this stick.

 

Again, I don't want to come across as trying to invalidate your point because it's your opinion and I think it's worth consideration even if some people disagree...just throwing out there as food for thought.

Edited November 17, 2007 by egami

[+apetro]

I am guessing some of your responses will be "you don't have to find every cache". I understand your frustration tho. I haven't been caching long and I have tried to figure out the puzzle caches but I don't even know where to start! If I ever figure one out, EVERYONE will know about it.lol. I am sorry the people won't respond to your email, they may have logged off and not checked their mail or are in the process of adding the checker to their page. Whatever the case I hope you get it worked out. I am in the process of making my own puzzle cache for kids. Good luck on finding your first puzzle cache!

[+Cedar Grove Seekers]

I understand what you are saying, and am typically willing to give people as much help as they want on my puzzle caches. Some people might ask for a little nudge whereas others essentially ask for the solution. Either extreme is fine with me. Here are some thoughts I have:

 

Regarding the puzzle you just solved, has the cache been found yet? Maybe the owner is not confirming coords because he/she doesn't want to give an unfair advantage on the FTF? I typically will only give hints/ confirmations once my cache has been found by at least one person.

 

You do have an opportunity to confirm coordinates by actually going and searching for the cache. I realize this might be a lot of extra work if you're wrong but you'll feel great if you're right and you find it. Try plotting the coords on a map first to see if the location makes sense.

[+Kit Fox]

I feel for you but, I also disagree with you on few points. Way before puzzle confirmation links were added to cache pages, we had to either contact the owners, or try the coords that we came up with. Many times puzzle cache owners did not respond to my emails, but I still looked for the cache, using my solution. i was wrong a couple of times.

 

As a premium cacher you have one of the most powerful tools at your disposal, it's called the ignore function. It works great for making those caches "disappear." I have many caches, including some puzzle caches on my ignore list. I learned cryptography with guidance from other cachers. I also spent many hours learning about different forms of encryption on the web. I've solved a few very hard puzzle caches, and there are just as many "easy" puzzle caches that I can't figure out to this day.

[+WeatherednBoston]

I have found a few puzzle caches over the years...easy ones. Then I also have gone on cache outings with people from my area and found some pretty tough ones just by tagging along cause I could have never solved them myself. It feels like cheating to me when I find them that way though.

 

The cache I think I solved is a newly approved puzzle cache and nobody has logged it yet. That could possibly be why they wont confirm my coords but if that is the case I wish they could of just let me know that. I didn't want help solving it...just wanted to know if I was correct or not. It's a good 40-50 mile RT drive for me to find out if im wrong...in the dark and the rain might I add if I wanted the FTF on it...and it would have been in rush hour traffic at the time too.

 

I guess I could put all puzzle caches on my ignore list but that would make me feel even more stupid for not even trying. I like to try atleast...I dont like quitting or accepting defeat. I refuse to give up. I just wish that puzzle placers would be more willing to confirm the coords after I "think" I solved it.

 

Some puzzle placers before this have told me I was correct or that I was wrong...I so appreciated that. I just wish everyone would do this. I wish it was a requirement that if you place puzzles that you should have that checker in the listing. It should automatically be built into the cache submittal form.

[+TrailGators]

I would suggest working on puzzles with a lower difficulty until you get the hang of some of the common tricks that people use. I can't remember ever seeing a puzzle that required a college education to solve.

 

I agree that it is annoying when people don't put coordinate checkers on their cache page. So I made sure that all my puzzles have them.

[+NotThePainter]

I'm an avid puzzle cache hider and I do not put coordinate checkers on my pages.

 

Why?

 

Simple, I enjoy corresponding with the seekers of my cachers. I've made many friends along way doing this. I met my best caching buddy (and non-caching buddy!) this way. I think the coordinate checkers a bit impersonal.

 

However, I always, always, always respond to coordinate checking questions. That is just rude. However, you might want to give the puzzle hider the benefit of the doubt, they might not always be online.

 

As for difficulty, yes, mine are hard. Some of them are very hard and those ones are meant to be hard to find. Some enjoy the challenge, some don't. I heard from one cacher who liked thinking about my puzzles when under going his chemotherapy, took his mind off it. I know this means that many won't seek them. That's ok, I'm fine with that. There are caches out there for everyone.

 

Paul

[+TrailGators]

I'm an avid puzzle cache hider and I do not put coordinate checkers on my pages.

 

Why?

 

Simple, I enjoy corresponding with the seekers of my cachers. I've made many friends along way doing this. I met my best caching buddy (and non-caching buddy!) this way. I think the coordinate checkers a bit impersonal.

 

Paul

Paul, if a checker is impersonal than so is a traditional cache that gives you the coordinates on the cache page. A checker is nice because you don't have to wait. You can solve it and go! Plus if you make a silly mistake the checker let's you know instantly. Before checkers were around I had many cases where people didn't respond and it was annoying. If you were gone on vacation without a PC what would people do?

[+hydnsek]

I'm an avid puzzle cache hider and I do not put coordinate checkers on my pages.

 

Why?

 

Simple, I enjoy corresponding with the seekers of my cachers. I've made many friends along way doing this. I met my best caching buddy (and non-caching buddy!) this way. I think the coordinate checkers a bit impersonal.

 

Paul

Paul, if a checker is impersonal than so is a traditional cache that gives you the coordinates on the cache page. A checker is nice because you don't have to wait. You can solve it and go! Plus if you make a silly mistake the checker let's you know instantly. Before checkers were around I had many cases where people didn't respond and it was annoying. If you were gone on vacation without a PC what would people do?

Well said. Agree completely. Although I love corresponding with cachers and making new friends, there are lots of ways to do that.

[+WeatherednBoston]

NotThePainter is a very well known puzzle cache maker in my area. His are some of the toughest around. Way over my head....WAY OVER. Now that I know you will confirm coords perhaps I will try to solve one before next Thanksgiving...it really would take me that long to figure one out lol

 

Paul you should hold a puzzle event. If not perhaps you run in those circles of people that could hold an event to teach cachers like myself some of the basic concepts of puzzle caches in the area. Most of the puzzle caches around here I wouldn't even know where to begin. I stare at the page and wonder what can I do with this information. My face usually looks like this ..... or this

 

This is Massachusetts...seems like everyone in this sport around here has a degree from MIT...seems like everyone is an engineer of some sort. Critical thinking skills is something I never learned in high school that's for sure.

 

I heard we had an event like this over a year ago but I missed it because I was a newbie and didnt know about it at the time.

[+NotThePainter]

Paul, if a checker is impersonal than so is a traditional cache that gives you the coordinates on the cache page.

 

I guess it is just an imperfect world.

 

A checker is nice because you don't have to wait. You can solve it and go! Plus if you make a silly mistake the checker let's you know instantly.

 

Anticipation intensifies. Not everything is instant.

 

I often correspond with my seekers for weeks before they solve the puzzle.

 

Before checkers were around I had many cases where people didn't respond and it was annoying. If you were gone on vacation without a PC what would people do?

 

I always bring my Macintosh with me on vacation, and I always make sure I have WIFI access. Hmm, next summer I'll actually be camping for a week w/o electricity. Guess I shoud disable my caches...

[+NotThePainter]

Well said. Agree completely. Although I love corresponding with cachers and making new friends, there are lots of ways to do that.

 

Yes, exactly! There are lots of ways to do that. Events are one of them. That's why my wife and I host multiple, well attended, events per year.

 

Given that, this is one way to correspond with cachers and it is one way that I have chosen to do so.

 

Paul

[+NotThePainter]

NotThePainter is a very well known puzzle cache maker in my area. His are some of the toughest around. Way over my head....WAY OVER.

Thank you for the kind words.

 

Yes, most of my puzzles are tough, but they do not require advanced knowledge. Most require critical thinking, a lot of it. You see, I often don't even have the puzzle obvious on the page. Finding the puzzle is part of the challange.

 

I just looked at all my puzzles, here's a list of the skills needed to solve them.

• critical thinking, detailed observation, historical research
  
• google
  
• google, insight
  
• grade school math
  
• insight, sound alike words
  
• inspiration, math (but distance calculation web page is given on the cache page)
  
• observational skills at the site and insight
  
• pocket calculator and knowledge of your GPS (projection)
  
• rubic's cube skills OR knowledge of alternate ways
  
• solution to other puzzle given in the forums OR google the hint
  
• strong insight
  
• tremendous insight, avoidance of decoys
  
• tremendous insight, grade school math
  
• walk 3 hours (bonus cache)
  

No college is needed, but a lot of thinking is needed. A lot. I expect that some of these will take 10 to 30 hours to complete. A few I expect to take only a short time. (Ash Street School, Reciprocal Determinism, Quipu)

 

Paul you should hold a puzzle event. If not perhaps you run in those circles of people that could hold an event to teach cachers like myself some of the basic concepts of puzzle caches in the area. Most of the puzzle caches around here I wouldn't even know where to begin. I stare at the page and wonder what can I do with this information. My face usually looks like this ..... or this

I hear your pain. Sadly, I'm not a good teacher in large groups. I can coach individually, but I freeze up. And, this might come as a surprise, I'm not at all good at solving puzzles! There are far better people at it than I am.

 

One of mine is archived, I'll tell you how to solve it. Ground Zero for 80 Feet of Waterline Nicely Making Way was on the MIT campus, you would find a very large outdoor scupture by Alexander Calder there. The cache page tells to you get info off the plaque and to find two other plaques on campus but here's the hard part, I don't tell you where to find those places or what you'll find there.

 

If you start googling the sculpture, eventually you'll find out that there is a second, smaller, copy of the sculpture on campus. That's the location of one of the plaques. But where is the other? Keep on googling and eventually you'll find that the smaller one was moved from its original location in front of Building 9. Building 9? Yeah, MIT has a peculiar way of using building numbers, not names. So you next need to find a map of campus.

 

Then you gather the data from the plaques, do pocket calculator math, and you are at ground zero.

 

The hide itself was also very difficult.

 

Sadly, I needed to archive it. It was one of my favorite puzzles.

 

But notice the common thread here, thinking, that is what is needed to solve this one.

 

This is Massachusetts...seems like everyone in this sport around here has a degree from MIT...seems like everyone is an engineer of some sort. Critical thinking skills is something I never learned in high school that's for sure.

Actually, I am from MIT, I'll admit that. But Critical thinking is not something that you cannot learn later in life. Just like working out at the gym, working your mind makes it stronger. Start with the easy ones and keep at it. Start with Reciprocal Determinism. This one is a bit easier because I give you 2 numbers. You need to transform those numbers into coordinates. I'll glady help you along. (Plus there is a TB in the cache that the owner wants moved!)

 

Paul

[+Harry Dolphin]

As for the cache owner who thinks a coordinate checker will make the puzzle "easy" - how's that? It only confirms if you've solved it right, unless your goal is to send folks on wild goose chases. They need a slap upside the head with a wet fish, and an etiquette lesson in responding to emails.

 

Very few of the ones around here have coordinate checkers. I'm trying to solve one with three sets of variables. That gives 27 possible final locations. (A few run 7 strings of three possible answers.) With coordinate checker, a few minutes at the keyboard would give me the right answer.

[+Vinny & Sue Team]

I have been geocaching for a few years and I do enjoy it very much until it comes to the Puzzle caches.

 

You see im just a regular girl who is not as educated as the "Bulk" of geocachers out there. Most of you have had years of college while myself...well I didn't have the chance to further my education because I was a single mom at the age of 16 and had other important things to take care of during my life.

 

So...puzzle caches....they are so very hard for me to solve. A few cachers in my area have been very nice about it. Some have sat with me at events and tried to show me how they solve some of the caches and I have appreciated that very much but still my brain just doesnt let it sink in.

 

Try teaching auto mechanics to someone who doesnt even know what a car is....and well you get the drift.

 

I took the time today to try to solve a new puzzle in my area and even though it looked hard I think I had solved it. But im very unsure about my skills here so I emailed the placer of the cache looking for confirmation on the coords I had provided them I also asked if they could provide a coord checker in the cache discription. They emailed me back within 2 minutes and said "I think having the checker out

there makes it a bit easier." and that was that. No confirmation of my coords. So I email back again asking if they could let me know if my coords were correct or if I was even close and well they just ignored me and wont return my email.

 

I guess the only reason I am writing this is to vent my frustrations. Maybe alot of the geocachers out there think its easy for everyone to solve puzzles and I want you to know that its NOT easy for some of us.

 

For the people who have as much trouble as I do...for the ones that are so unsure about thier puzzle solving skills well I speak for them. If your gonna be making puzzle caches the least you can do is confirm the coordinates when people email you.

 

If you have no intention of confirming the cords...you should atleast put that in your cache description that you will not confirm coords so people like myself wont waste several hours of thier time trying to solve them.

 

I have a massave headache from trying to solve the puzzle...which was magnified by the fact I now have no way of confirming my solution.

 

Do I really need to contact all the people who's puzzles I want to solve before hand to see if they will confirm the coords before I waste my time? Well it looks so to me.

 

Please...the moral of this story that I want you all to get from reading this is...not all geocachers are brain surgeons, IT Professionals and other things that require years and years of a college education. Geocachers are made up of all kinds of people...please consider this when doing the puzzle caches...help those that need it...atleast help by comfirming coordinates. Please continue to put out the tough puzzles but the least you can do is understand where I'm coming from.

Well, here are my thoughts:

 

First, I do not think a college education or a lack of it has anything to do with solving puzzles. I have never seen any kind of correlation correlation here. Rather, some folks are good a solving puzzles, and some are not. And, some folks love puzzles, and some hate them. My wife Sue, who has over 600 puzzle cache finds -- and who is an admitted puzzle cache addict -- has a basic Bachelors' degree from college, and many of our geo-friends who are puzzle addicts never went to college at all. In contrast, I have a total of seven years of graduate-level education beyond the Bachelor's level and I also have a grad degree, and yet I HATE puzzles -- they give me a big headache. In fact, I would much rather sit down and pull out each of my toenails, one by one, with a large pair of vise-grip pliers and then rub salt and vinegar into my toes, than tackle even the simplest puzzle cache.

 

Moving on, I see no obligation or requirement for puzzle cache owners to give assistance to seekers regarding the puzzles. Some do, some do not. That is life.

 

Next, if you do not enjoy tackling puzzle caches, why bother doing them? Why not do as I do, and skip them, and instead focus on cache types which you enjoy? In fact, please feel free to come down here to Western Maryland and tackle some of our 5/5 Psycho Urban Caches -- none of them involve any puzzles at all, but do involve lots of grimy dirty hard work and an element of danger!

 

A late P.S.: I have just noticed that your forum sig title is "Geocaching isn't fun when you can't find them!" Hmmmm... might I suggest that instead of constantly focusing on what you do not like, and lamenting about it, and reminding yourself of it (as in making it your forum motto) that you may instead wish to focus on what you DO enjoy? Why not do the things you love, and love doing them, rather than trying to do things you hate and complaining about it? In my book, a little love, a little gratitude and a little appreciation go a long way toward making life flow easily.

Edited November 17, 2007 by Vinny & Sue Team

[+Too Tall John]

I just looked at all my puzzles, here's a list of the skills needed to solve them.

• critical thinking, detailed observation, historical research
  
• google
  
• google, insight
  
• grade school math
  
• insight, sound alike words
  
• inspiration, math (but distance calculation web page is given on the cache page)
  
• observational skills at the site and insight
  
• pocket calculator and knowledge of your GPS (projection)
  
• rubic's cube skills OR knowledge of alternate ways
  
• solution to other puzzle given in the forums OR google the hint
  
• strong insight
  
• tremendous insight, avoidance of decoys
  
• tremendous insight, grade school math
  
• walk 3 hours (bonus cache)
  

And with that post, all of New England's Puzzle Cachers sat up and took note!

 

WeatherednBoston:

 

I've got 2 puzzle caches waiting in the wings to be published. One of them is waiting for me to find a location I like for it. The other is, I think, an original cryptogram which I don't think I'd figure out without some pretty big hints. I've just got to go out, take a couple coords & place the cache (although there is another thing that I'd like to fall into place, but that's more of a hint than I really should give). I think I'm definitely a better puzzle maker than solver. (Of course, I've only published one so far, so look out!)

 

What's my point? There's a geocache around here somewhere by mamd called "If you can't find 'em, hide 'em." That could be your philosophy for puzzle caches: "If you can't solve 'em..." I've had some really cool email conversations with people looking for hints on my caches, even met Hipointer & Capiti so I could walk along behind and see where people were having troubles on my first cache. We've been caching together on and off ever since.

 

Where do you get ideas for a puzzle? I've got a whole list of great ideas that I've used trying to solve puzzles. I'd be sitting there and say "Gee, what if they did that? It's just evil enough that it'd work..." I'd be wrong, but I'd have a new idea for another cache.

 

So, start with an "easy" one, keep notes on how you've tried to figure it out. Ask for hints, it really is a good way to meet other cachers (as well as the best way to... get hints...) As you get more and more complex, you'll one day say "Eureka! This will make a great cache!"

 

Follow this advice and someday down the road people will say "Oh gosh! Another WnB Puzzle cache! I better get to it if I want to find it by next Thanksgiving!"

 

[+NotThePainter]

I'm trying to solve one with three sets of variables. That gives 27 possible final locations. (A few run 7 strings of three possible answers.) With coordinate checker, a few minutes at the keyboard would give me the right answer.

To me, that's a bad puzzle. I do believe that all* of my puzzles are obviously solved once solved. In other words, if you have ask "are these the right coords" then they aren't the right coords. Of course, I don't mind people asking because it beats driving and not finding.

 

Of course, as others have pointed out to me, I'm so close to the solution that "obvious" to me is not "obvious" to the seeker, and yes, that's a real problem.

 

* one puzzle has 2 decoy solutions but once you plot them on google maps you'll find that both are in bodies of water.

 

Paul

[+NotThePainter]

And with that post, all of New England's Puzzle Cachers sat up and took note!

You did notice that I alphabetized the list so you don't know which technique goes with with puzzle, right?

 

Paul

[+Too Tall John]

And with that post, all of New England's Puzzle Cachers sat up and took note!

You did notice that I alphabetized the list so you don't know which technique goes with with puzzle, right?

 

Paul

Dang... I hadn't noticed...

 

[+wimseyguy]

So if we just alphabetize your puzzle hides we'll know which technique goes with which puzzle, right?

[+Too Tall John]

And with that post, all of New England's Puzzle Cachers sat up and took note!

You did notice that I alphabetized the list so you don't know which technique goes with with puzzle, right?

 

Paul

A-Ha! I've got you now!

 

We can deduce that two of those skills go to the "Out Standing" series, leaving only 12 caches to match up! That only leaves half a billion possible combinations of skills and puzzles.

 

You've definitely left the door wide open for people to be able to figure out what they need to solve your caches!

 

[+KBI]

Your post is clear, intelligent, and thoughtful. You even used a clever analogy to make a point. You sound plenty educated and smart to me!

 

Consider:

• Some puzzles are easy, others are hard.
  
• Some solutions will require you to call upon a particular element of your education; others require no specialized knowledge of any particular subject.
  
• Some puzzles are intended to be an extreme challenge; others are merely intended as a momentary and fun diversion along your journey to the cache. Expect more hints on the latter type than the former.
  
• Some cache owners are pleasant, others are rude.
  
• No, you don’t have to find every cache.
  

I tend to enjoy puzzle caches even more than the traditional hides, but there are some puzzles out there I either cannot crack or that I have no interest in attempting. Some puzzle caches are like underwater caches to me: I have absolutely no interest in attempting them, but I’m glad others enjoy them, and I’m therefore glad they exist.

 

If your description of your correspondence with the cache owner is accurate, Then I would simply put the cache on my ignore list and move on to something more likely to be fun. I’m even willing to bet that the cranky cache owner would do the same if he were treated similarly by another puzzle cache owner.

 

The cache I think I solved is a newly approved puzzle cache and nobody has logged it yet. That could possibly be why they wont confirm my coords but if that is the case I wish they could of just let me know that. I didn't want help solving it...just wanted to know if I was correct or not.

I agree. Your request sounds very reasonable, and for the owner to ignore you with absolutely no explanation is rude.

 

I guess I could put all puzzle caches on my ignore list but that would make me feel even more stupid for not even trying. I like to try atleast...I dont like quitting or accepting defeat. I refuse to give up. I just wish that puzzle placers would be more willing to confirm the coords after I "think" I solved it.

Please don't give up on puzzles because of one difficult person. The more you solve and find them, the more likely you are to eventually place one or more of your own, and therefore the more puzzles there will be for me to attempt!

 

Some puzzle placers before this have told me I was correct or that I was wrong...I so appreciated that. I just wish everyone would do this. I wish it was a requirement that if you place puzzles that you should have that checker in the listing. It should automatically be built into the cache submittal form.

I don't agree that verification should be required. It’s nice when it’s there, but in my opinion the owner should remain free to make the experience as easy or as challenging as he wants -- and of course you should remain free to attempt or ignore the cache as you see fit.

 

I understand your reaction, but I don't think new rules are the answer.

[+WeatherednBoston]

[Next, if you do not enjoy tackling puzzle caches, why bother doing them?

 

Because they are there...and because I feel left out. If everyone else around here can solve them than I want to solve them too. I just have to learn is all...one step at a time.

 

Ok...that cache owner did get back to me this morning. Looks like I did solve the puzzle correctly...but the puzzle had a mistake in it and if I had ran out in the dark It would have been off a tiny bit (.009) and the chances are I wouldn't have been able to find it in the dark and rain. I'm very grateful that he finally did get back to me...but I think the only reason that he did was because someone else tried to confirm the coords and he noticed that both of us came up with the same wrong answer. But im just assuming that is why....They said that confirming the coords would be like an extra hint...and until the FTF is had they dont like giving out hints. I guess that is ok for people who live in that immediate area...but I live a good 25 miles away. I'm glad I didnt go and try to find it last night without confirmation. Next time im in that area I will try to find it now that I know I solved it correctly.

 

So I spent this morning solving one of NotThePainter's "easier" caches. I think I did it correctly and I didn't get a headache either lol. I do like the challenge of a Puzzle Cache and it's true I have to start with the easy ones before I gain enough skills to attempt the harder ones...especially with concepts I don't understand or have never heard of before.

 

Thank you all for understanding where im coming from even if you don't agree with me. That's all I wanted. I feel better now that I have talked about this in the forums...I don't feel as stupid as I did last night. My brain is so rusty....like a car you would see in the woods when your looking for a cache....it just needs some work, is all.... to get up and running again. Thanks!

 

Now I cant wait to find out if I solved NotThePainter's puzzle correctly. I wait with anticipation.

[+egami]

Simple, I enjoy corresponding with the seekers of my cachers. I've made many friends along way doing this. I met my best caching buddy (and non-caching buddy!) this way. I think the coordinate checkers a bit impersonal.

 

However, I always, always, always respond to coordinate checking questions. That is just rude. However, you might want to give the puzzle hider the benefit of the doubt, they might not always be online.

 

Personally I think this is just fine. I realize some cachers like checkers, but if a cache owner decides this is their style and enjoys the interaction aspect then I think you have to extend respect to someone who takes this approach and is responsible in their follow up and interaction.

 

It's nice to see people that enjoy social interaction in geocaching.

[+NotThePainter]

So I spent this morning solving one of NotThePainter's "easier" caches. I think I did it correctly and I didn't get a headache either lol

Woo hoo!

 

She got it! She even did the research that thought people would do, including finding the wikipedia page that I edited (correctly) to make the cache easier! :-)

 

(And sorry it took so long to get back to you, I was out caching, first one in a long while...)

 

Paul

[+NotThePainter]

but the puzzle had a mistake in it

I hate when this happens and I'm just as guilty as the next guy.

 

However, after the 3rd mistake or so I've enlisted the aid of two avid puzzle finders, not from New England, who proofread my puzzles for me. I give them the puzzle (and the solution) and ask them to confirm that the puzzle matches the solution. Of course they try to solve it first and yes, they have caught other mistakes.

[+simpjkee]

I don't see where you are coming from. Some caches you can find, some you can't There is an underwater cache by my house. I've never been scubaing in my life. I can't find that one. Should I ask the owner to furnish me scuba gear. Or ask that they place a cache that would be easier for those who arent scubaly inclined. I think not. If I want to find that cache, I need to take some scuba classes and learn to scuba, or have someone else grab the log for me. If you want to solve those tough puzzles then go to school and get an education. As far as you becoming a single mom at 16, well, that's your choice. The cache placers have nothing to do with that, and they do not need to go out of their way for you, because of it.

[+WeatherednBoston]

I don't see where you are coming from. Some caches you can find, some you can't There is an underwater cache by my house. I've never been scubaing in my life. I can't find that one. Should I ask the owner to furnish me scuba gear. Or ask that they place a cache that would be easier for those who arent scubaly inclined. I think not. If I want to find that cache, I need to take some scuba classes and learn to scuba, or have someone else grab the log for me. If you want to solve those tough puzzles then go to school and get an education. As far as you becoming a single mom at 16, well, that's your choice. The cache placers have nothing to do with that, and they do not need to go out of their way for you, because of it.

 

I'd be the first one to ask for a scuba event that's for sure that sounds like alot of fun! I wouldnt expect it...but id atleast ask

 

Believe me I would go back to school if given the chance but with 1000- monthly rent and a bunch of other bills I have accrued over the years....noway possible to keep paying the bills and go back to school. Maybe when I get the bills paid or maybe if I was your age living with my parents it would be possible. I'd rather be stupid and broke than to live back at home again.

 

I never asked anyone to go out of thier way for me....I just voiced my opinion. Maybe my opinion is not worth anything here but I voiced it anyway.

[+january14]

I have trouble with Puzzle Caches too. But, I have an IT job, I am college educated, I know how to use the web for searching for information.

 

Lot's of people tend to ignore Multi-caches... Why do 3, 4 or 5 finds for a single smiley?

 

Lot's of people tend to ignore Terrain 5 caches... I don't want to fall off a cliff!

 

Lot's of people tend to ignore Puzzle caches... Makes my brain hurt.

 

Lot's of people migrate to easy caches... Hey, in the end, it's still a smiley.

 

Lot's of people abhor easy caches... But those lampskirt caches do have a purpose. If all of the caches were diff 5, nobody would ever start caching.

 

As everyone else said... do easy puzzle first, then move up to the harder ones. Just like: do the easy terrain ones first and then move up the harder ones. Just like: do the lampskirts first, then move on to the more difficult ones.

 

Every cache has a purpose. Just because your particular skills don't match the cache you want to do today doesn't mean that you will never have the skills. It just means that you haven't refined them yet.

 

Joe

[+simpjkee]

I don't see where you are coming from. Some caches you can find, some you can't There is an underwater cache by my house. I've never been scubaing in my life. I can't find that one. Should I ask the owner to furnish me scuba gear. Or ask that they place a cache that would be easier for those who arent scubaly inclined. I think not. If I want to find that cache, I need to take some scuba classes and learn to scuba, or have someone else grab the log for me. If you want to solve those tough puzzles then go to school and get an education. As far as you becoming a single mom at 16, well, that's your choice. The cache placers have nothing to do with that, and they do not need to go out of their way for you, because of it.

 

I'd be the first one to ask for a scuba event that's for sure that sounds like alot of fun! I wouldnt expect it...but id atleast ask

 

Believe me I would go back to school if given the chance but with 1000- monthly rent and a bunch of other bills I have accrued over the years....noway possible to keep paying the bills and go back to school. Maybe when I get the bills paid or maybe if I was your age living with my parents it would be possible. I'd rather be stupid and broke than to live back at home again.

 

I never asked anyone to go out of thier way for me....I just voiced my opinion. Maybe my opinion is not worth anything here but I voiced it anyway.

 

Your opinion is noted, however I don't agree. I think cachers should be able to place caches and/or puzzle caches that are geared towards all intelligence levels regardless of what cachers may attempt them. If a cache was placed that necesitated being educated about something that I didn't have, I would leave it alone or educate myself enough to know how to solve it. I would not complain that I "didn't have the chance to further my education because I was a single mom at the age of 16 and had other important things to take care of during my life". When you made the choice to get pregnant at 16, you made the choice to give up any chance of a higher education in order to pay: "1000- monthly rent and a bunch of other bills I have accrued over the years" You have obviously decided that a higher education is not as important as having a child at 16. Hey that's cool. I'm okay with you making the decisions that you want to make.

 

I'm 25 and haven't lived with my parents for years. I have a degree in Psychology and own a condo for a lot less that you are paying for rent. I have no children.

 

Please give me one good reason why I should have to dumb down my puzzle caches so that you can understand them.

 

If you want to figure out the puzzle caches, then get an education. If you can't get an education, then please feel free to out wit us "IT professionals and educated people", by posting a puzzle cache that requires a single 25 year old educated male like me, know how many pampers come in the medium size package at Wal-Mart. (I don't have a clue!) I think you would get a kick out of watching me trying to figure that stuff out. Am I making sense now? Don't ask us to dumb down our stuff. Post a new cache that has a bunch of baby formula conversions and such and then laugh at us "educated people" as we stumble all over the answers. That would be hilarious.

 

We are all educated in our own areas. Post a cache that asks me to expand my education. I would be happy o take on that challenge. However, DO NOT get frustrated when I post something that asks you to expand your education. We got a deal?

[+WeatherednBoston]

You have totally missed the point of my post...how did you get your degree anyhow if you cant read something and get the point?

 

The whole point of my post here was to ask puzzle cachers to confirm the coords once a puzzle is solved so someone living far away will not go on a wild goose chase. Someone like myself that has a bit more trouble solving them could possibly make more errors solving them and thats why I voiced my opinion about confirming coords.

 

All you got out of my post is that I had a child at 16 and didn't further my education...that's all you got. Not once did I ask for people to stop making hard puzzle caches....in fact if you read my first post to the end perhaps you would see I mentioned "Please continue to put out the tough puzzles"

 

BTW I havent the clue how many diapers come in a Med Bag from Walmart as my son is 23 and I havent changed a diaper in 22 years lol

[+tands]

I practice 'revenge of the HS Diploma' myself. S has her college degree, but I try to make the hardest puzzles out there with my HS education.

 

However, I think a placer should always verify coordinates on puzzle hides if a seeker has gone to the trouble to solve a puzzle.

 

- T of TandS

[+NYPaddleCacher]

 

I always bring my Macintosh with me on vacation, and I always make sure I have WIFI access. Hmm, next summer I'll actually be camping for a week w/o electricity. Guess I shoud disable my caches...

 

I suppose it depends on where you go on vacation, but I had my laptop with me all last week while in Zambia and although the fancy hotel I stayed in had WIFI internet access was pretty spotty. I was there on business so didn't have much time for caching. I didn't get a chance to search for the 1 cache (a virtual) in Zambia that was within 100 miles of my location but I went across the border in Zimbabwe and found one and grabbed another in South Africa on the way there.

 

I've got the email account in my gc.com profile hooked to my Blackberry so I can usually send and receive email from in the field. However, there wasn't a dataplan available where I was located so I was pretty much off the grid from most of the time.

 

BTW, as far as coordinate checkers go, I have been using geocheck.com. I like it because it allows me to customize the "success" message. For a recent cache I placed I put some parking/trail access information there rather than on the listing. It can also be used for multi level puzzle caches as the "success" message can contain a URL for another puzzle.

[+Terrier Team]

I'm just now trying some puzzle caches (all star wars theamed and there are 6 of them!!!) and they are difficult if your not a star wars buff!! But here is what I say, why don't you get some lateral thinking puzzle books and some other puzzle books that will bu yours to keep and you can just work on them and perty soon you will be getting thoes pesky puzzle caches!!!! Just don't give up!!!!

[+sbell111]

I have a couple of degrees that provide me with almost no help with puzzles. The fact is, I really bad at them, so I almost always build my PQs to sift them out. I'll occasionally take a look at the puzzes, but usually I don't mess with them. It keeps me pretty satisfied.

[+Harry Dolphin]

Or, you could just brute force the cache! Hee hee hee

[+Too Tall John]

The derogatory portions of the following post have been edited or removed by me as I find them insulting:

Please give me one good reason why I should have to dumb down simplify my puzzle caches so that you can understand them.

How about I simplify** her original post so that you can understand it.

 

If your gonna be making puzzle caches the least you can do is confirm the coordinates when people email you.

 

If you have no intention of confirming the cords...you should at least put that in your cache description that you will not confirm coords so people like myself wont waste several hours of their time trying to solve them.

 

Geocachers are made up of all kinds of people...please consider this when doing the puzzle caches...help those that need it...at least help by confirming coordinates. Please continue to put out the tough puzzles but the least you can do is understand where I'm coming from.

Huh... Nothing about making you dumb down anything...

 

Kinda make you feel silly, eh?

 

** See how a change of one word makes that sound nicer?

[+Miragee]

I have a couple of degrees that provide me with almost no help with puzzles. The fact is, I am really bad at them, so I almost always build my PQs to sift them out. I'll occasionally take a look at the puzzes, but usually I don't mess with them. It keeps me pretty satisfied.

Well . . . I only have one degree, and a B.S. in Biology sure doesn't help me figure out Puzzle Caches.

 

I learned early on to avoid headaches, and problems with low self-esteem because I could never figure out the Puzzle caches, I had to avoid them. I get all the other cache types in my PQs, except for the "Unknown" category.

 

So, like sbell111, ". . . I don't mess with them." That keeps me pretty satisfied.

[+Sioneva]

You have totally missed the point of my post...how did you get your degree anyhow if you cant read something and get the point?

 

The whole point of my post here was to ask puzzle cachers to confirm the coords once a puzzle is solved so someone living far away will not go on a wild goose chase. Someone like myself that has a bit more trouble solving them could possibly make more errors solving them and thats why I voiced my opinion about confirming coords.

 

All you got out of my post is that I had a child at 16 and didn't further my education...that's all you got. Not once did I ask for people to stop making hard puzzle caches....in fact if you read my first post to the end perhaps you would see I mentioned "Please continue to put out the tough puzzles"

 

BTW I havent the clue how many diapers come in a Med Bag from Walmart as my son is 23 and I havent changed a diaper in 22 years lol

 

*applause*! Well said! I've hidden a few puzzle caches myself, but I haven't lost track of the fact that caches are put out there so others can find them. I'm known to give hints if asked for them, or nudges on how to solve the puzzle, though I do leave the legwork to the cacher. Certainly, I'd confirm coordinates if someone worked out the puzzle! I *want* people to find my puzzle caches... I also enjoy seeing them get an extra feeling of accomplishment at the mental exercise as well.

[+wandering4cache]

I like checkers because it allows me to not waste gas on a wild goose chase if i'm wrong MULTIPLE times. Either confirm for me or provide a checker. Thanks.

 

Oh simpjkee, I think alot of people could have afforded that condo at 25 if they lived in AZ. You try moving to Boston area & see what you can afford. 25 doesn't make you all that smart.

 

WeatheredinBoston, I have a BS in computer science from the Stone Age. I can't do most of the puzzles either. I've solved some & I'm proud of myself for that. We can't all have knowledge in every field out there. Do the ones you think you can. It will boost your confidence, and you might learn a puzzle technique that you can use on another cache someday. I also google ALOT, but it doesn't always work.

 

Good luck. And ignore the idiots.

Edited November 20, 2007 by wandering4cache

[+IBcrashen]

I like checkers and use checkers. The main reason is so people don`t wonder into some place they are not suppose to be. It helps solve another "black eye" to be avoided by geocachers.

[+Keep Lookin]

I don't think education has much to do with puzzle caches either....I am pretty well educated, have several degrees, but I'm dumb as a box of rocks when it comes to puzzle caches. Because I'm a older cacher, I can't help but wonder if I lived a shallow life...because I didn't watch a lot of cartoons, or Saturday Night Live, and get involved with the Sci-Fi generation. Frankly, I just accept the fact, that while I might be smart in some things, I'm not so smart in others...

 

But I have to admit, that I have been amazed by genius some cacher's use when it comes to putting puzzles together...how in the world do you think of the things!!!!

Edited November 20, 2007 by Keep Lookin

[+simpjkee]

The derogatory portions of the following post have been edited or removed by me as I find them insulting:

Please give me one good reason why I should have to dumb down simplify my puzzle caches so that you can understand them.

How about I simplify** her original post so that you can understand it.

 

If your gonna be making puzzle caches the least you can do is confirm the coordinates when people email you.

 

If you have no intention of confirming the cords...you should at least put that in your cache description that you will not confirm coords so people like myself wont waste several hours of their time trying to solve them.

 

Geocachers are made up of all kinds of people...please consider this when doing the puzzle caches...help those that need it...at least help by confirming coordinates. Please continue to put out the tough puzzles but the least you can do is understand where I'm coming from.

Huh... Nothing about making you dumb down anything...

 

Kinda make you feel silly, eh?

 

** See how a change of one word makes that sound nicer?

 

nah. I don't feel silly.

[+Scare Force One]

If you don't like a cache their is no rule that says that if you don't find 1 puzzle cache every year or you will be banned from the site. Just avoid puzzle caches and you will be fine.

 

~.~Scare Force One

Edited November 20, 2007 by Scare Force One

[+sbell111]

If you don't like a cache their is no rule that says that if you don't find 1 puzzle cache every year or you will be banned from the site. Just avoid puzzle caches and you will be fine.

 

~.~Scare Force One

THe OP is not complaining about the presence of puzzles. She is merely suggesting that puzzle owners be willing to confirm coordinates and, perhaps, be willing to return an email.

[J.A.R.S.]

If you don't like a cache their is no rule that says that if you don't find 1 puzzle cache every year or you will be banned from the site. Just avoid puzzle caches and you will be fine.

 

~.~Scare Force One

THe OP is not complaining about the presence of puzzles. She is merely suggesting that puzzle owners be willing to confirm coordinates and, perhaps, be willing to return an email.

 

I'm glad you said that. The OP has at least twice tried point this out. I agree that confirmation is a considerate thing to do and as IBcrashen pointed out "The main reason is so people don`t wander into some place they are not suppose to be. It helps solve another "black eye" to be avoided by geocachers."

[+geos of the jungle]

I enjoy corresponding with the seekers of my cachers. I've made many friends along way doing this.

Ditto! Some of my closest caching friends are a result of many email exchanges regarding each other's caches.

 

I enjoy corresponding with cachers who are working on my puzzle caches. I've provided everything from slight nudges to total spoilers, when asked. If a cacher is interested in solving any of my puzzle caches, or getting through any of my multi caches, I have no problem helping them along. I inherited this attitude from many of our local cache hiders. They have always been willing to provide a nudge or verify an approach I'm taking when asked.

 

FTF is a different story though. As someone who enjoys solving cache puzzles (and creating them) I respect a cache owner's wish to not give out hints/nudges/etc prior to FTF.

 

tony (1/4 GOTJ)

[+TotemLake]

I have been geocaching for a few years and I do enjoy it very much until it comes to the Puzzle caches.

 

You see im just a regular girl who is not as educated as the "Bulk" of geocachers out there. Most of you have had years of college while myself...well I didn't have the chance to further my education because I was a single mom at the age of 16 and had other important things to take care of during my life.

 

So...puzzle caches....they are so very hard for me to solve. A few cachers in my area have been very nice about it. Some have sat with me at events and tried to show me how they solve some of the caches and I have appreciated that very much but still my brain just doesnt let it sink in.

 

Try teaching auto mechanics to someone who doesnt even know what a car is....and well you get the drift.

 

I took the time today to try to solve a new puzzle in my area and even though it looked hard I think I had solved it. But im very unsure about my skills here so I emailed the placer of the cache looking for confirmation on the coords I had provided them I also asked if they could provide a coord checker in the cache discription. They emailed me back within 2 minutes and said "I think having the checker out

there makes it a bit easier." and that was that. No confirmation of my coords. So I email back again asking if they could let me know if my coords were correct or if I was even close and well they just ignored me and wont return my email.

 

I guess the only reason I am writing this is to vent my frustrations. Maybe alot of the geocachers out there think its easy for everyone to solve puzzles and I want you to know that its NOT easy for some of us.

 

For the people who have as much trouble as I do...for the ones that are so unsure about thier puzzle solving skills well I speak for them. If your gonna be making puzzle caches the least you can do is confirm the coordinates when people email you.

 

If you have no intention of confirming the cords...you should atleast put that in your cache description that you will not confirm coords so people like myself wont waste several hours of thier time trying to solve them.

 

I have a massave headache from trying to solve the puzzle...which was magnified by the fact I now have no way of confirming my solution.

 

Do I really need to contact all the people who's puzzles I want to solve before hand to see if they will confirm the coords before I waste my time? Well it looks so to me.

 

Please...the moral of this story that I want you all to get from reading this is...not all geocachers are brain surgeons, IT Professionals and other things that require years and years of a college education. Geocachers are made up of all kinds of people...please consider this when doing the puzzle caches...help those that need it...atleast help by comfirming coordinates. Please continue to put out the tough puzzles but the least you can do is understand where I'm coming from.

Not all caches are for everybody. Get used to that and you'll get over your angst.