Please give me your opinion on my archived Cache!

[+Lil Devil]

Do you really think your fellow geocacher would mis-use these items?

The problem is not so much in what a geocacher would do, but what could someone else do with the stuff if they accidentally found the cache?

 

For example, the ban on knives in caches comes, in part, from officials who manage Prison Work Crews. They are concerned what would happen if a convict finds a cache containing a knife while cleaning a roadside.

 

Just go remove the dang matches and anything else questionable and go on with life. Is it really worth all this grief just to keep a few particular items in the cache? Or are you just lazy and don't want to hike out there again?

 

Edit: dang speeling erors

Edited July 21, 2007 by Lil Devil

[+Lacomo]

Honestly guys...what benefit do you see coming from these flaming responses?

 

Hang around the forums long enough and you will see that there are some who get their jollies out of being rude and condescending to the rest of us.

 

Good luck with your cache.

 

I agree, sometimes makes you wish you had never ask.

 

I also think you should remove the questionable items.

Stay on the good side of your reviewer. If you keep on caching you will need them again sometime.

[+Knight2000]

So what is the difference bewteen lighters and matches, hmmmmm, I know they both can be used to light a fire and that is their only use.

They are different in nature.

 

Generally speaking lighters are more dangerous. They contain a highly flammable substance.

 

I dont thing that matches are good swag but for a cache like this- its seems a grey area.

[+welch]

So what is the difference bewteen lighters and matches, hmmmmm, I know they both can be used to light a fire and that is their only use.

They are different in nature.

 

Generally speaking lighters are more dangerous. They contain a highly flammable substance.

 

I dont thing that matches are good swag but for a cache like this- its seems a grey area.

I don't think it really matters which is more dangerous, its like I said in another recent thread "Its perceived as an dangerous adult item not suitable for kids or morons, thus its not good for the family friendly image."

 

If you go on a screw driver slashing sprew maybe they'd be banned too

[+Knight2000]

Would a flint and steel be against guidelines too?

 

You could use a magnifying glass also.

 

A fire bow?

 

Two hardwood sticks?

 

I am not trying to argue or debate. I am promoting an insightful discussion.

 

I am just asking where does it end?

[+Mopar]

So what is the difference bewteen lighters and matches, hmmmmm, I know they both can be used to light a fire and that is their only use.

They are different in nature.

 

Generally speaking lighters are more dangerous. They contain a highly flammable substance.

 

I dont thing that matches are good swag but for a cache like this- its seems a grey area.

 

Matches are even more dangerous though. Butane needs fire to ignite. Matches only require heat or friction.

While the point was made early on that the forest service recommends you CARRY matches or a lighter, having them on your person (presumably under your direct control) is NOT the same as leaving them in a box in the middle of a forest.

I suspect if you were to ask the forest service what they though of placing a box of matches and firestarters in the middle of a forest that is currently under a fire watch and already has one forest fire burning, they would not be especially receptive to the idea.

 

Many people think it's a good idea to carry knives, firearms, and food while hiking in the forest too. That doesn't make them good cache items.

[+TrailGators]

For example, the ban on knives in caches comes, in part, from officials who manage Prison Work Crews. They are concerned what would happen if a convict finds a cache containing a knife while cleaning a roadside.

Good point. That reminded me of this famous line "What we have here is a failure to communicate." Edited July 21, 2007 by TrailGators

[+Knight2000]

If you go on a screw driver slashing sprew maybe they'd be banned too

The point about the screwdriver was because (i thought) that multi-tools were not allowed because what if a prison crew cleaning found one and used it as a weapon. The same claim can be made to a larger screwdriver (which we sometimes leave.)

 

Heck the prison guy could wield an ammo can full of swag as a weapon.

 

I disagree with the multi tool guideline and leave them in caches anyway.

[+flask]

someone said it above:

 

it's really all about the land managers. very few of us think these things are likely to be dangerous. some of us have gone through the exercise of thinking about why some folks do think they're dangerous.

 

just because we can explain the potential problems doesn't mean that we think they're significant risks.

[+Knight2000]

While the point was made early on that the forest service recommends you CARRY matches or a lighter, having them on your person (presumably under your direct control) is NOT the same as leaving them in a box in the middle of a forest.

I suspect if you were to ask the forest service what they though of placing a box of matches and firestarters in the middle of a forest that is currently under a fire watch and already has one forest fire burning, they would not be especially receptive to the idea.

 

Many people think it's a good idea to carry knives, firearms, and food while hiking in the forest too. That doesn't make them good cache items.

I agree. Permission should be received first from the land manager. (At least regarding the matches.)

[Mushtang]

For example, the ban on knives in caches comes, in part, from officials who manage Prison Work Crews. They are concerned what would happen if a convict finds a cache containing a knife while cleaning a roadside.

Good point. That reminded me of this famous line "What we have here is a failure to communicate."

And that line always reminds me of a busty woman wearing a thin dress, washing her car and getting herself all wet. Hmmm....

 

What was the topic again?

[+TrailGators]

For example, the ban on knives in caches comes, in part, from officials who manage Prison Work Crews. They are concerned what would happen if a convict finds a cache containing a knife while cleaning a roadside.

Good point. That reminded me of this famous line "What we have here is a failure to communicate."

And that line always reminds me of a busty woman wearing a thin dress, washing her car and getting herself all wet. Hmmm....

 

What was the topic again?

 

For some reason my mind just wandered off and I forgot.... Well I'm gonna go eat some breakfast now. Maybe I'll have a few hard boiled eggs. Edited July 21, 2007 by TrailGators

[+Renegade Knight]

For example, the ban on knives in caches comes, in part, from officials who manage Prison Work Crews. They are concerned what would happen if a convict finds a cache containing a knife while cleaning a roadside.

Good point. That reminded me of this famous line "What we have here is a failure to communicate."

I work with Convicts on work release, which happens before they are released back into the population. While they are women, the rules that kick in for them to be on work release would be similar to men. That is to say they are tame as it were and not likely to pose a danger. The ones we get wrote bad checks. We don't get the ones who were involved in armed robbery.

 

They prisoners maintain our grounds. They work with mowers, chain saws, trucks and the like. Note the chain saw. Mopar is right on why knives were banned. Land managers are wrong in how much of a real concern an inmate is when finding a knife in a cache. However perception is reality.

[+flask]

as for the screwdrivers, i've been watching a lot of documentaries on prisons lately, and you would be amazed what those people can do with a little bit of metal and some saran wrap.

 

i do not suggest for one moment that you refrain from placing tools or other metal objects in a cache, but that maybe you might think about whether the area is one maintained by prison crews and adjust your swag accordingly.

 

you'd be surprised some of the areas that are maintained by prison crew, too.

 

granted, they can whip up something deadly with a pen and a spiral-bound notebook, so there's no need to try for absolutes, but if you're in an area where prison labor is used, you might think twice about leaving an object that won't need much modification to turn into a deadly weapon.

[+Renegade Knight]

...I agree. Permission should be received first from the land manager. (At least regarding the matches.)

 

Only if the Land Manager has indicated that they would like to review caches with matches. It's inane to waste their time on things they are not concerened with.

 

If the park doesn't have a general policy on matches, doesn't inspect hikers, bikers, and other users at the gate for matches. Demanding that someone go get permission on matches is a waste of time. If the park has a cache policy that says "no matches" then it's also a waste of time to ask.

[+Renegade Knight]

... waterproof matches makes good swag.

 

Waterproof Matches, Lighters, Knives, Multi Tools are all good swag. Their banning is not related to how good of swag they are.

[Clan Riffster]

Synthtcd, we can debate for the next 8 pages the differences between matches and lighters, howver, nothing positive for your specific goal can possibly come from such a debate. The person you need to satisfy is your reviewer. In the three messages from your reviewer that you posted, they all asked for the name of the person who authorized these items. Rather than provide such easy to supply information, you opted to argue, which, (I assume), is why your cache sits in limbo.

 

As I understand it, the job of a reviewer is to review and publish caches. From talking to my local reviewers, it seems they even like publishing caches, and will go to great lengths to work with folks to make this happen. When a reviewer sees something on a cache page that causes them concern, they usually offer what they feel is a reasonable remedy to resolve their concerns, as was the case with your cache. Most of us take their advice to heart, and work with them to get our caches published.

 

Why can't you do the same? From an outsider's perspective it looks like you're just being stubborn, which I suspect is the reason for all the snarky comments.

[+briansnat]

Although the cache contents are well intentioned, I have to agree with many of the posts before me. The fire-starter materials may be legitimate hiker materials, and indeed may be needed, they should be removed with or without special exemption to Groundspeak guidelines or permission of a Forest Service ranger.

 

We all know that caches occasionally get muggled, with no rhyme or reason to cache selection or location. I would have concern that if the cache is accidentally discovered, the materials could be used in an irresponsible manner which causes loss of life and habitat. Yes, a fire can be used to signal and heat, but in the wrong hands it can be dangerous.

 

 

Hmmmmm, I guess maybe I should stop placing those insect magnifying glasses in caches. Gosh, if someone accidentally discovered it and used the magnifying glass to start a forest fire I'd never forgive myself.

 

I have to stop with the small packs of sandpaper too. What if someone has matches, but no striker and they use my sandpaper as a striker?

 

Flashlights too. Someone could remove the batteries, hook up some wires to the batteries, cross them to create a spark and cause loss of life and habitat.

[Mushtang]

but if you're in an area where prison labor is used, you might think twice about leaving an object that won't need much modification to turn into a deadly weapon.

Such as peanut butter. An inmate could walk around eating some peanut butter and kill off half the guards.

 

[+briansnat]

For example, the ban on knives in caches comes, in part, from officials who manage Prison Work Crews. They are concerned what would happen if a convict finds a cache containing a knife while cleaning a roadside.

 

Probably nothing. They are non violent offenders who have a record of good behavior and are often very near their release date.

 

It's not like they are putting convicted murderers on road crews.

[+Crow T Robot]

I doubt that an unsupervised irresponsible child would be on that hike and accidentally find the cache and the matches. Isn't that the issue with matches? ...

 

Actually, that's not the only issue for matches, lighters, and the like. These items have been known to spontaneously combust under the right circumstances. The issue of pyromaniacs finding their favorite toys may be foremost in everyone else's minds but my dealings with land managers point to the other concern. Any knucklehead can bring a book of matches into the woods and start a fire so they aren't as worried about them being found in caches as they are about them causing an unintentional fire.

[magellan315]

... waterproof matches makes good swag.

 

Waterproof Matches, Lighters, Knives, Multi Tools are all good swag. Their banning is not related to how good of swag they are.

 

If your going to quote me get it right. This is the POST you claimed that I said waterproof matches make good swag and that is not what I stated. Someone else said it.

Edited July 21, 2007 by magellan315

[+flask]

For example, the ban on knives in caches comes, in part, from officials who manage Prison Work Crews. They are concerned what would happen if a convict finds a cache containing a knife while cleaning a roadside.

 

Probably nothing. They are non violent offenders who have a record of good behavior and are often very near their release date.

 

It's not like they are putting convicted murderers on road crews.

 

in some states, i was interested to learn, they do put violent hardtimers on work crews.

[+Dodgermp]

So really I just need to remove the matches, could have avoided hours of research and debate if the reviewer just suggested this from the get go?

 

Could have avoided hours of research if you would have provided the information that the reviewer asked for the first time around.

[+Glenn]

Synthtcd, we can debate for the next 8 pages the differences between matches and lighters

 

Good point. But what if we take a look at the similarities between matches and lighters. As stated many times in this thread both can be used to start fires. However, only one is specifically mentioned in the guidelines. Why is that? Some items that can be used to start fires are also listed including explosives, fireworks and ammo but other items like magnifying glasses or flint and steal are left off. Why list some items that can start fires and not others? Wouldn't a statement like "any items that can start fires" be clearer than listing a few things that can start a fire? Could it be that explosives, fireworks, ammo and lighters all have something else in common beside being able to start fires that was the reason to specifically list those particular item. Whatever it is that those items do have in common and that is the reason they are listed. It is obvious that matches don't share that commonality or they would have been included in the list a long time ago.

[+Cpt.Blackbeard]

What many seem to be forgetting is that the list of items is not intended to be all inclusive, which is why the guidelines also say this:

 

"If the original cache contents list any of the above items or other questionable items, or if a cache is reported to have the questionable items, the cache may be disabled, and the owner of the cache will be contacted and asked to remove the questionable items before the cache is enabled. "

 

Obviously the reviewer is questioning "other items", and the correct procedure is to work it out to the reviewers satisfaction.

[+Prime Suspect]

Your error is in making the assumption that only a geocacher will find this, and not a troubled 13 year old with chip on his shoulder, who's off exploring on his own from his parent's campsite. I'm sure nothing bad could happen with that scenario.

I see the scenario but...

 

I cold leave a newspaper in a cache and it could be used to start a fire too. Otherwise it is totally benign, like the starter log.

 

I could leave a screwdriver in a cache and it could be used as a weapon too. But if not wielded as a weapon- it is totally safe.

 

Where do we end with the "what ifs"?

The amount of damage a 13 year old could do in the woods with a newspaper or screwdriver is pretty much nil. Not so with a fire starter kit.

Edited July 22, 2007 by Prime Suspect

[+Vanillahip]

I would have liked the reviewer to just ask him to take out the matches to avoid any PERCIEVED responsibilty of the cache in a fire or accident of any kind in the area. OP hopefully follows the logic, adjusts the swag and we have a new cache to hunt. Now we have an annoyed cacher and reviewer which gives me fewer caches to wish I had the time to find!

[+Knight2000]

Actually, that's not the only issue for matches, lighters, and the like. These items have been known to spontaneously combust under the right circumstances. The issue of pyromaniacs finding their favorite toys may be foremost in everyone else's minds but my dealings with land managers point to the other concern. Any knucklehead can bring a book of matches into the woods and start a fire so they aren't as worried about them being found in caches as they are about them causing an unintentional fire.

That makes a lot of sense. If the matches were left in a sealed match case would it be ok then?

 

The amount of damage a 13 year old could do in the woods with a newspaper or screwdriver is pretty much nil. Not so with a fire starter kit.

So it is the two items together that are bothersome? (Fire starter log and matches?)

[+Renegade Knight]

While the point was made early on that the forest service recommends you CARRY matches or a lighter, having them on your person (presumably under your direct control) is NOT the same as leaving them in a box in the middle of a forest.

I suspect if you were to ask the forest service what they though of placing a box of matches and firestarters in the middle of a forest that is currently under a fire watch and already has one forest fire burning, they would not be especially receptive to the idea.

 

Many people think it's a good idea to carry knives, firearms, and food while hiking in the forest too. That doesn't make them good cache items.

I agree. Permission should be received first from the land manager. (At least regarding the matches.)

My Brother in law had a contract to build small cabins for dropping in remote areas in Alaska for use as emergency shelters. I'll have to ask if they stocked them with caches of basic supplies including a means of starting a fire.

[+Trucker Lee]

Although the cache contents are well intentioned, I have to agree with many of the posts before me. The fire-starter materials may be legitimate hiker materials, and indeed may be needed, they should be removed with or without special exemption to Groundspeak guidelines or permission of a Forest Service ranger.

 

We all know that caches occasionally get muggled, with no rhyme or reason to cache selection or location. I would have concern that if the cache is accidentally discovered, the materials could be used in an irresponsible manner which causes loss of life and habitat. Yes, a fire can be used to signal and heat, but in the wrong hands it can be dangerous.

 

 

Hmmmmm, I guess maybe I should stop placing those insect magnifying glasses in caches. Gosh, if someone accidentally discovered it and used the magnifying glass to start a forest fire I'd never forgive myself.

 

I have to stop with the small packs of sandpaper too. What if someone has matches, but no striker and they use my sandpaper as a striker?

 

Flashlights too. Someone could remove the batteries, hook up some wires to the batteries, cross them to create a spark and cause loss of life and habitat.

 

Do I detect sarcasm here?

 

Many items can be used to start fires, almost anything can be used as a weapon, but do we need to make it easy for morons to mess things up for the rest of us? The determining factor is what the original purpose of the item is, knives to cut, guns to shoot, matches to start fires.

 

In any case, as Clan Riffster pointed out, the reviewer asked for the contact name, and seemed willing to work with OP. If no contact, why not remove the items in question? The reviewer is only doing the task asked, and appears to be totally within the guidelines.

[Clan Riffster]

But what if we take a look at the similarities between matches and lighters. As stated many times in this thread both can be used to start fires. However, only one is specifically mentioned in the guidelines. Why is that?

I wasn't around when they were written, so all I can offer is guesswork;

Maybe they figured folks would be bright enough to realize that lighters also include matches? Technically, one could argue that, since the primary function of a match is to light a fire, it is a lighter.... Maybe? Maybe they actualy did make an all inclusive list at one point but it was so long it bogged down the servers so they had to shorten it and pray for common sense? Heck, I don't know. I just play here.

[+Quiggle]

Matches are not banned. If you think they are please show me.

http://www.geocaching.com/about/guidelines.aspx#contents

 

"If the original cache contents list any of the above items or other questionable items, or if a cache is reported to have the questionable items, the cache may be disabled, and the owner of the cache will be contacted and asked to remove the questionable items before the cache is enabled."

 

Right there in the guidelines. Matches are questionable (because they can be used to start a fire, unlike the newspaper you compared them to in another post), therefore they should not be in caches any more than a lighter should.

 

Hope that answered your question.

[+simpjkee]

why not just take the fire stuff out? if you absolutely must have the fire stuff in it, then do what the reviewer asks. there, problem solved.

[+Shakedown.dave]

Seems to me that the only issue is providing the name of the person who gave you permission. Do that, and everything's cool again.

[+Renegade Knight]

... waterproof matches makes good swag.

 

Waterproof Matches, Lighters, Knives, Multi Tools are all good swag. Their banning is not related to how good of swag they are.

 

If your going to quote me get it right. This is the POST you claimed that I said waterproof matches make good swag and that is not what I stated. Someone else said it.

 

Sorry, part of the quote got cut off. It happens. I was responding to your request. "...please show me where people have said waterproof matches makes good swag."

[+Prime Suspect]

My Brother in law had a contract to build small cabins for dropping in remote areas in Alaska for use as emergency shelters. I'll have to ask if they stocked them with caches of basic supplies including a means of starting a fire.

Good idea. And when goecaching.com gets into the rescue-cabin building business, it will actually become relevant to the discussion at hand. Until then, not so much.

Edited July 22, 2007 by Prime Suspect

[+Glenn]

Matches are not banned. If you think they are please show me.

http://www.geocaching.com/about/guidelines.aspx#contents

 

"If the original cache contents list any of the above items or other questionable items, or if a cache is reported to have the questionable items, the cache may be disabled, and the owner of the cache will be contacted and asked to remove the questionable items before the cache is enabled."

 

Right there in the guidelines. Matches are questionable (because they can be used to start a fire, unlike the newspaper you compared them to in another post), therefore they should not be in caches any more than a lighter should.

 

Hope that answered your question.

 

No where in guidelines are matches specifically mentioned. knight2000 statement is correct. Matches are not BANNED. The list of specifically banned items are "explosives, fireworks, ammo, lighters, knives (including pocket knives and multi-tools), drugs, alcohol [and] other illicit material". Are matches banned? No. Can matches be see as questionable? Certainly.

 

Some have been inferring that since lighters are banned and lighters are used to create a flame therefore matches, which are used to create a flame, are also banned. This logic has a whole so big you can drive a MAC thru it. You can't infer that something is banned simply because it happens to share a trait in common with one of the items on the banned list. If so I could infer that since knives are banned and knives are made of metal therefore geocoins, which are made of metal, are also banned. Doesn't it sounds ridiculous to assume geocoins are banned from caches because they happen to share a common trait with an item on the banned list. It also sounds ridiculous to assume that matches are banned because they too happen to share a common trait with one item on the banned list.

 

Matches can be questionable. Any item can become questionable depending on location and situation. Matches are not banned and those trying to make the argument that since lighters are banned so are matches are using questionable logic.

[+Kit Fox]

Matches are not banned. If you think they are please show me.

http://www.geocaching.com/about/guidelines.aspx#contents

 

"If the original cache contents list any of the above items or other questionable items, or if a cache is reported to have the questionable items, the cache may be disabled, and the owner of the cache will be contacted and asked to remove the questionable items before the cache is enabled."

 

Right there in the guidelines. Matches are questionable (because they can be used to start a fire, unlike the newspaper you compared them to in another post), therefore they should not be in caches any more than a lighter should.

 

Hope that answered your question.

 

No where in guidelines are matches specifically mentioned. knight2000 statement is correct. Matches are not BANNED. The list of specifically banned items are "explosives, fireworks, ammo, lighters, knives (including pocket knives and multi-tools), drugs, alcohol [and] other illicit material". Are matches banned? No. Can matches be see as questionable? Certainly.

 

Some have been inferring that since lighters are banned and lighters are used to create a flame therefore matches, which are used to create a flame, are also banned. This logic has a whole so big you can drive a MAC thru it. You can't infer that something is banned simply because it happens to share a trait in common with one of the items on the banned list. If so I could infer that since knives are banned and knives are made of metal therefore geocoins, which are made of metal, are also banned. Doesn't it sounds ridiculous to assume geocoins are banned from caches because they happen to share a common trait with an item on the banned list. It also sounds ridiculous to assume that matches are banned because they too happen to share a common trait with one item on the banned list.

 

Matches can be questionable. Any item can become questionable depending on location and situation. Matches are not banned and those trying to make the argument that since lighters are banned so are matches are using questionable logic.

 

I wonder if a "Hot spark" tool is a no no? I don't about the "nanny patrol" but I would rather find a survival kit complete with a "Hot spark" tool over a bunch of useless trinkets any day.

[+flask]

My Brother in law had a contract to build small cabins for dropping in remote areas in Alaska for use as emergency shelters. I'll have to ask if they stocked them with caches of basic supplies including a means of starting a fire.

Good idea. And when goecaching.com gets into the rescue-cabin building business, it will actually become relevant to the discussion at hand. Until then, not so much.

 

i think the idea was to gauge land manager thought; if they stock the cabins with those tools, they might be more likely to give permission for caches containing them, which then become permissible under the guidelines.

[+briansnat]

Actually, that's not the only issue for matches, lighters, and the like. These items have been known to spontaneously combust under the right circumstances.

 

This is basically nonsense. If these things spontaneously combusted, even in rare instances, with hundreds of millions of vehicles, we'd be seeing car fires all over the place every summer. I've never in my life heard or read of a single instance of this happening. If it happens it is so rare as to be a non issue. A chunk of flint falling on an ammo box might be more of a danger.

Edited July 22, 2007 by briansnat

[+bwmick]

Actually, that's not the only issue for matches, lighters, and the like. These items have been known to spontaneously combust under the right circumstances.

 

This is basically nonsense. If these things spontaneously combusted, even in rare instances, with hundreds of millions of vehicles, we'd be seeing car fires all over the place every summer. I've never in my life heard or read of a single instance of this happening. If it happens it is so rare as to be a non issue. A chunk of flint falling on an ammo box might be more of a danger.

 

here's a link that seems to confirm that.

 

http://mythbustersresults.com/episode65 If you don't like their science feel free to let THEM know.

 

bwmick

[+Metaphor]

Does Navicache still exist?

 

As much as I hate rules, I like geocaching better. Why make an issue out of a non-issue? Either ask the right people for permission to place these materials or remove the items that have the potential of getting the cache banned. Granted, if I was in this out of the ordinary woodland area, needed a survival kit, and didn't have the sense to bring my own, I probably wouldn't be concerned with geocaching; besides, a SURVIVAL CACHE might not be the best advertisement to those of lesser experience, and might provide a false sense of security. What happens when the contents listed disappear after the third cacher and someone in need goes looking for it, only to find a golfball, two broken McToys and slinky?

 

(edit- replaced faulty period with appropriate comma)

Edited July 23, 2007 by Metaphor

[+Knight2000]

Matches are not banned. If you think they are please show me.

http://www.geocaching.com/about/guidelines.aspx#contents

 

"If the original cache contents list any of the above items or other questionable items, or if a cache is reported to have the questionable items, the cache may be disabled, and the owner of the cache will be contacted and asked to remove the questionable items before the cache is enabled."

 

Right there in the guidelines. Matches are questionable (because they can be used to start a fire, unlike the newspaper you compared them to in another post), therefore they should not be in caches any more than a lighter should.

 

Hope that answered your question.

In your opinion the are questionable.

 

I did not compare newspaper to a lighter. I compared the newspaper to a otherwise benign starter log. Both will burn if flame is applied. That doesn't make wither one of them bad for a cache.

[+flask]

 

I did not compare newspaper to a lighter. I compared the newspaper to a otherwise benign starter log. Both will burn if flame is applied. That doesn't make wither one of them bad for a cache.

 

i thought you were comparing safety matches to a blowtorch.

 

maybe i missed something.

 

nobody mentioned flamethrowers. can i leave one in a cache?

 

wanna see something funny? watch people who are being "attacked" with fake flamethrowers. hoo-ee, that's some funny stuff.

[+bwmick]

 

i thought you were comparing safety matches to a blowtorch.

 

maybe i missed something.

 

nobody mentioned flamethrowers. can i leave one in a cache?

 

wanna see something funny? watch people who are being "attacked" with fake flamethrowers. hoo-ee, that's some funny stuff.

 

I see your flame thrower and raise you a potato cannon.

[+Renegade Knight]

My Brother in law had a contract to build small cabins for dropping in remote areas in Alaska for use as emergency shelters. I'll have to ask if they stocked them with caches of basic supplies including a means of starting a fire.

Good idea. And when goecaching.com gets into the rescue-cabin building business, it will actually become relevant to the discussion at hand. Until then, not so much.

 

I'll help you with the logic. The buildings may contain a cache. Geocaching.com works with caches. It's a What's good for the goose is good for the gander type of thing. If one cache is ok with it's contents then the other caches are also fine.

 

I'll try to remember when I'm in AK in a couple of weeks to ask what they stocked the cabins with.

[+wvcoalcat]

 

In your opinion the are questionable.

 

 

Since Quiggle is also a cache reviewer I think his opinion carries some weight.

[Clan Riffster]

No where in guidelines are matches specifically mentioned. The list of specifically banned items are "explosives, fireworks, ammo, lighters, knives (including pocket knives and multi-tools), drugs, alcohol [and] other illicit material".

Glenn, let me patch up a few of those MAC truck sized holes in this allegedly questionable logic. You claim that explosives, fireworks, ammo, lighters, knives (including pocket knives and multi-tools), drugs, alcohol [and] other illicit material are banned. In this, I would say you are incorrect. Quoting directly from the guidelines, it says;

 

Cache Contents

 

Use your common sense in most cases. Explosives, fireworks, ammo, lighters, knives (including pocket knives and multi-tools), drugs, alcohol or other illicit material shouldn't be placed in a cache.

 

Nowhere in the guidelines does it mention the items you claim are banned. It just says use common sense, and that those items shouldn't be placed in a cache. The same common sense that Groundspeak is asking for in reference to lighters can be applied to matches.

 

If I placed a cache and filled it full of Glock handguns, (unloaded of course), should I gripe when a reviewer refuses to publish it? After all, handguns aren't illicit by any definition, and they definitely are not on the list of items that shouldn't be placed in a cache.

[+Stargazer22]

My opinion is that the questionable items should either be removed, or permission cited to the reviewer as requested. I noticed that of the 7 original items listed in the OP, 4 of them are related to fire in some way.

Is that really necessary? There are pleny of great hiking related items that can be used as swag that don't have anything to do with fire. I think if you will let go of your preponderence towards fire related items, you will get your cache approved pretty quickly.