Decoys

[+mommio]

I would like to know the appropriate way to set up a decoy. I found what I thought was a cache site( GC11HFR) http://www.geocaching.com/seek/cache_detai...cb-8a0a81a8ebe4 It was a fence post cap that when removed had remnants of glue on it. It appeared that maybe the container had come loose and fallen into the pipe. I replaced the container and notified the owner. In turn, the owner sent me an e-mail saying that the cap was a decoy and I should go back and edit find and try again. There was nothing on the cache page indicating there was a decoy involved and the description given matched what would have been a logical place for the cache (small container hanging around out of sight). There was nothing in the cap that indicated it was a decoy. So after trying to be nice by "fixing" what I thought was the cache, I now find out it was a decoy. How was I supposed to know this was a decoy? What is the ettiquette involved with this type cache?

[+Miragee]

The cache has a difficulty of '1'. I sure wouldn't expect any sort of "twist" to the cache find. . .

 

There was a "Decoy" cache here where when you found the obvious container, a note in it said, "Not yet, keep looking." Only problem, the actual cache was missing and remained missing for months until the cache owner finally Archived the listing . . .

 

Other "Decoys" I have found included a message in the nearby objects, so you knew you needed to keep looking.

 

I'm sure those caches had a Difficulty rating of more than '1'.

[+mommio]

The cache has a difficulty of '1'. I sure wouldn't expect any sort of "twist" to the cache find. . .

 

There was a "Decoy" cache here where when you found the obvious container, a note in it said, "Not yet, keep looking." Only problem, the actual cache was missing and remained missing for months until the cache owner finally Archived the listing . . .

 

Other "Decoys" I have found included a message in the nearby objects, so you knew you needed to keep looking.

 

I'm sure those caches had a Difficulty rating of more than '1'.

 

I discussed this with another local geocacher and she said she had heard of decoy caches with the same thing you mentioned, ie. a note saying to keep looking. This is a first in our area. I don't have a problem with the idea of decoys, but I do think there should be some indication that there might be a decoy, especially in this case where the decoy definitely looked like there had been a container attached to the cap. If it hadn't been for the remnants of glue in the cap, I would have assumed that I hadn't found the cache and would have kept looking.

[+Vinny & Sue Team]

I would like to know the appropriate way to set up a decoy. I found what I thought was a cache site( GC11HFR) http://www.geocaching.com/seek/cache_detai...cb-8a0a81a8ebe4 It was a fence post cap that when removed had remnants of glue on it. It appeared that maybe the container had come loose and fallen into the pipe. I replaced the container and notified the owner. In turn, the owner sent me an e-mail saying that the cap was a decoy and I should go back and edit find and try again. There was nothing on the cache page indicating there was a decoy involved and the description given matched what would have been a logical place for the cache (small container hanging around out of sight). There was nothing in the cap that indicated it was a decoy. So after trying to be nice by "fixing" what I thought was the cache, I now find out it was a decoy. How was I supposed to know this was a decoy? What is the ettiquette involved with this type cache?

I certainly would not expect to see a decoy for a cache with a Difficulty rating of 1... Personally, I think that all decoys should contain a waterproof note telling you that you just found a decoy, and to keep looking... and, of course, I feel that a decoy-afflicted cache should bear a Difficulty rating of 3 or higher.

 

Late post-script: Just noticed belatedly the phrase "I replaced the container..." Whoa! Wow! I would NEVER replace a container (as others have noted, this is called a "throwdown cache") unless I had been specifically asked by the owner to do so. I feel that throwdowns are one of the banes of modern geocaching...!

Edited March 22, 2007 by Vinny & Sue Team

[+Kit Fox]

I discussed this with another local geocacher and she said she had heard of decoy caches with the same thing you mentioned, ie. a note saying to keep looking. This is a first in our area. I don't have a problem with the idea of decoys, but I do think there should be some indication that there might be a decoy, especially in this case where the decoy definitely looked like there had been a container attached to the cap. If it hadn't been for the remnants of glue in the cap, I would have assumed that I hadn't found the cache and would have kept looking.

 

I disagree. You found some glue, and you assumed that this was part of the cache. You emailed your concerns with the owner, and he told you that you found a decoy. When you found the glue, did you assume that this was in fact the cache? Did you bother looking in any other places?

 

There was nothing on the cache page indicating there was a decoy involved and the description given matched what would have been a logical place for the cache (small container hanging around out of sight). There was nothing in the cap that indicated it was a decoy. So after trying to be nice by "fixing" what I thought was the cache, I now find out it was a decoy. How was I supposed to know this was a decoy? What is the ettiquette involved with this type cache?

 

They wouldn't be good decoys, if you knew in advance that there might be fake caches laying around.

[+Criminal]

It is the worst of etiquette to replace a cache container if you haven’t contacted the owner. I don’t know why you defaulted to that action, but it has, from experience, created HUGE headaches for future finders. I know you meant well, but it’s presumptuous of you to assume that you’ve searched all the possible hiding places. More often than not, the cache is there and you’ve just added a decoy.

[+mommio]

I discussed this with another local geocacher and she said she had heard of decoy caches with the same thing you mentioned, ie. a note saying to keep looking. This is a first in our area. I don't have a problem with the idea of decoys, but I do think there should be some indication that there might be a decoy, especially in this case where the decoy definitely looked like there had been a container attached to the cap. If it hadn't been for the remnants of glue in the cap, I would have assumed that I hadn't found the cache and would have kept looking.

 

I disagree. You found some glue, and you assumed that this was part of the cache. You emailed your concerns with the owner, and he told you that you found a decoy. When you found the glue, did you assume that this was in fact the cache? Did you bother looking in any other places?

 

There was nothing on the cache page indicating there was a decoy involved and the description given matched what would have been a logical place for the cache (small container hanging around out of sight). There was nothing in the cap that indicated it was a decoy. So after trying to be nice by "fixing" what I thought was the cache, I now find out it was a decoy. How was I supposed to know this was a decoy? What is the ettiquette involved with this type cache?

 

They wouldn't be good decoys, if you knew in advance that there might be fake caches laying around.

 

You are, of course, right- I did assume this was the cache. The cap was obviously new on a fence post that had aged. I had done the first fence post cap cache in this area just recently. The fence was out in the open with no other obvious hiding places in the vicinity. So, yes, I assumed there had been a problem with the glue and the cache had become detached. Especially since I had used the same glue and found it didn't work so used a different glue to do my cap.

 

I was just curious if there was supposed to be some kind of warning of a decoy. As I stated, if it hadn't been for the glue in the cap, I would have assumed that I had made an error and would have kept looking.

[+Kit Fox]

 

You are, of course, right- I did assume this was the cache. The cap was obviously new on a fence post that had aged. I had done the first fence post cap cache in this area just recently. The fence was out in the open with no other obvious hiding places in the vicinity. So, yes, I assumed there had been a problem with the glue and the cache had become detached. Especially since I had used the same glue and found it didn't work so used a different glue to do my cap.

 

I was just curious if there was supposed to be some kind of warning of a decoy. As I stated, if it hadn't been for the glue in the cap, I would have assumed that I had made an error and would have kept looking.

 

No warning is needed. I've found decoy caches before, in fact the day I was introduced to geocaching, my buddy took me to a cache that had stumped him three times. After about twenty minutes of pondering the decoy, I found the actual cache.

 

Decoys are placed to "throw you off the trail" kind like placing black pepper on the ground, to thwart bloodhounds. Be sure to thoroughly search an area before giving up.

[+boda]

I agree with you, mommio. On one of my early finds I was FTF on a fence post cache. When I put the cap back on the glue failed and the cache went down. Of course I would have assumed a missing cache in your circumstance. I think most cachers would as well.

 

There is no requirement to warn the seeker that a decoy is there. I personally would put something in the decoy to indicate that more searching is required. I won't comment on the one you found, other than to say that I would not have placed that cache; but, it is the owner's choice.

[+rdaines]

So when does a decoy and cache turn into a multicache?

[+Harry Dolphin]

Fun cache: You're on a dirt road between old fields. You pick up a rock and find a note: Nope try again. We found four notes before we found the cche.

Mean cache: Twelve (or was it twenty) stage multi. Stage 8 is an ammo can with the note: This is a decoy. Go to these coordinates.

Evil, nasty cache. A piece of velcro and a pen, hanging inside a fence post. On the second attempt, I discovered the log inside the pen!

IMHO, the ones with the notes telling you that it is a decoy are fun. The ones without notes are evil.

[+TacRat]

The big thing to remember is that you make the choice to search for a cache or not. Because you may think it is inappropriate, somebody else might think it is loads of fun. The proper thing to do is to contact the cache owner and verify with him before "disturbing" the cache. If you are unsure that you found the cache, do not log it as a find. Another good point brought up, what's the fun of a decoy if you know about it. And last, nice gesture to replace the cache, but be sure to check with the owner first. I had a person move one of my caches around because they thought it was in the wrong place, but how would they know in the first place. I love to place caches that make you think...outside the box. Above all, have fun. If you don't like to play in a particular playground, find somewhere else to play that suites you better.

 

Cache On!!!

 

TacRat

[+trail hound]

Fun cache: You're on a dirt road between old fields. You pick up a rock and find a note: Nope try again. We found four notes before we found the cche.

 

Who would do a thing like that ?

[+briansnat]

It is the worst of etiquette to replace a cache container if you haven’t contacted the owner. I don’t know why you defaulted to that action, but it has, from experience, created HUGE headaches for future finders. I know you meant well, but it’s presumptuous of you to assume that you’ve searched all the possible hiding places. More often than not, the cache is there and you’ve just added a decoy.

 

That is a problem with these throw down caches. I've heard of as many as 4 of these caches at a site thanks to "well meaning" people who replace caches they believe to be missing.

 

If you can't find it you really aren't doing the owner a favor by hiding your own cache. First off, even if you are certain that the cache is gone, you don't know that you have the correct hiding place. And second, how do you KNOW the cache is gone? If I had a dollar for every person who proclaimed one of my caches missing when it wasn't, I could take the wife out for a very nice dinner.

[adampierson]

I wonder how long it would be for someone who finds the cache comes to the conclusion that the cache is "misplaced" and tries cramming the cache into the fence post believe it was misplaced!

 

[Neos2]

I started to make a snap judgement about this one, and then I re-read what mommio actually said.

 

Mommio went to the approximate cords of cache with a difficulty rating of 1, and found something that fit the hint but did not find a container. Inside the spot (a fence cap) they found remnants of glue. There was nothing at all to indicate the spot was a decoy.

 

Put yourself in that same situation. Common sense does not lead you to think, "Oh wait, this must be a decoy!"

 

Common sense suggests the cache "may have" once been glued inside the cap, but it came loose at some point and either fell down into the fence post or was carried away.

 

I wouldn't expect to find a decoy at a 1 difficulty cache. Especially one that proclaims itself a "park and grab"

I would expect a decoy to be identified as a decoy. (Otherwise, how do I know I just found a decoy?--I mean, c'mon, a glue spot doesn't = "really fun decoy" to me).

 

I think I would have emailed the owner to let them know their cache seemed to be missing. I don't think mommio was "totally unreasonable" in replacing what appeared to be a missing cache, as some of us seem to be suggesting.

Edited March 22, 2007 by Neos2

[Trinity's Crew]

Decoys are placed to "throw you off the trail" kind like placing black pepper on the ground, to thwart bloodhounds. Be sure to thoroughly search an area before giving up.

 

The pepper thing doesn't work. I just saw it on MythBusters.

 

I agree that mentioning the decoy on the cache page would kind of spoil the fun, but it doesn't make much sense to plant a decoy that cachers don't recognize as such once they've found it.

[+pigpen4x4]

I did not know about decoys when I unknowingly found my first one.

Try as I might, I could not get the cap off. I Emailed the owner, who replied "I haven't done a lamppost in years". First I was aggravated, then I laughed.

I might try one for my next hide.

PP

 

[Guyute1210]

Decoys are ok, no need to mention it on the cache page. I don't see the logic in "replacing" a cache that was "missing" with out contacting the owner first under any circumstance.

 

I took a friend from work out to hit up a few caches since he was interested in the hobby. After a couple decent hikes we decided to do one that I had already done, it ended up missing from the spot (a micro at a historic spot in town). At no point did I think to replace it. There was a needs maintainence note written on the cache page, the owner archived it, and another cacher replaced it with a new twist. IMO that was the easiest way to deal with a missing cache, and the numbers people get another number.

[+halffast]

Thats Just wrong to put a decoy weather its mentioned or not.I think I will have to put some decoys with my next hides.

[+StarBrand]

First off - any difficulty 1 cache shouldn't be under anything - should be easy to spot or very obvious.

 

Second, NEVER ever ever, declare a cache you have never seen and never found as missing. How can you possibly know for certain. Adding a new cache there was a nice thought but bad practice.

 

Decoys are ok and shouldn't be mentioned on the cache page but they should be "noted" at the location as a decoy. The real one should be close to the coordinates.

 

The one decoy I setup had a decoy that was obvious from the road but a good 100 feet from the coordinates. Funny how a good 75% of folks went to the decoy first and did not trust thier GPS reading. There was a "decoy - trust your GPS" note in it.

[+mommio]

OK Here's an update. I went back to the cache site to remove the container I had left. The owner had returned to his cache at some point since I had e-mailed him. Inside the cap there is now a note glued to the top that says "NOT HERE." He had not removed the container that I had left, so I did. Then I found the "real" cache. Not sure why he hadn't removed my container, but felt that I should so as not to further confuse the issue. And I have learned as a result of some of the responses to my post(ouch) NOT to try to be helpful by replacing a container I think is missing under ANY circumstances. Lesson learned. Thank you everyone for your responses.

[+J6]

OK Here's an update. I went back to the cache site to remove the container I had left. The owner had returned to his cache at some point since I had e-mailed him. Inside the cap there is now a note glued to the top that says "NOT HERE." He had not removed the container that I had left, so I did. Then I found the "real" cache. Not sure why he hadn't removed my container, but felt that I should so as not to further confuse the issue. And I have learned as a result of some of the responses to my post(ouch) NOT to try to be helpful by replacing a container I think is missing under ANY circumstances. Lesson learned. Thank you everyone for your responses.

 

Live and learn. I thank you for posting so I could learn about decoys at all! I had no clue and now I will have some inkling...

 

Perhaps he didn't take your container because it is YOUR container and, in gratitude for your good intentions, he wanted to make sure you got it back!

 

Great post. Thanks for taking the comments so well.

[+briansnat]

Put yourself in that same situation. Common sense does not lead you to think, "Oh wait, this must be a decoy!"

 

Common sense suggests the cache "may have" once been glued inside the cap, but it came loose at some point and either fell down into the fence post or was carried away.

 

I wouldn't expect to find a decoy at a 1 difficulty cache. Especially one that proclaims itself a "park and grab"

I would expect a decoy to be identified as a decoy. (Otherwise, how do I know I just found a decoy?--I mean, c'mon, a glue spot doesn't = "really fun decoy" to me).

 

I think I would have emailed the owner to let them know their cache seemed to be missing.

 

I don't think mommio was "totally unreasonable" in replacing what appeared to be a missing cache, as some of us seem to be suggesting.

 

I agree with you up to the part about him replacing the missing cache. As a cache owner I would not appreciate this. I take great care to choose my containers, logbooks and contents to match them with the area of he hide.

 

I would not be thrilled if someone were to stick a leaky film canister in place of my ammo box, even if it is missing. All he has to do is log a DNF and I will take care of it. I have had to go out several times to remove one of these throw down caches and in each case my original cache was still there. And why is it that it's always a film canister? They never throw down an ammo box.

 

I suspect that many of the people who do this mean well and are just trying to help, but I know a lot do it because they don't want to leave without that almighty smiley. I am curious how they justify logging a find being that they didn't find squat. They put the darn thing there.

[+Loch Cache]

It is the worst of etiquette to replace a cache container if you haven’t contacted the owner. I don’t know why you defaulted to that action, but it has, from experience, created HUGE headaches for future finders. I know you meant well, but it’s presumptuous of you to assume that you’ve searched all the possible hiding places. More often than not, the cache is there and you’ve just added a decoy.

 

I have an issue with someone replacing a missing cache unless you have been asked to do so by the cache owner. There is a local cache that a well meaning cacher put out a "replacement" log for because the original was missing. Several cachers came along and found the replacement despite the fact the well hidden original was still there. As an owner I would delete the finds and inform them they need to find the actual cache if they want a find. The owner of the cache in question allowed the finds to stand, even the one who got the find by leaving the replacement.

 

Loch Cache

[+wesleykey]

Mommio went to the approximate cords of cache with a difficulty rating of 1, and found something that fit the hint but did not find a container. Inside the spot (a fence cap) they found remnants of glue. There was nothing at all to indicate the spot was a decoy.

 

In this case, since the seeker could not sign the log, it is inappropriate to log a find. Posting a DNF and emailing the owner that you saw glue inside the fence post is much more appropriate.

[+wimseyguy]

Never mind, I thought this thread was about using hunting decoys as cache containers.

[+BuxCamper]

I started to make a snap judgement about this one, and then I re-read what mommio actually said.

 

Mommio went to the approximate cords of cache with a difficulty rating of 1, and found something that fit the hint but did not find a container. Inside the spot (a fence cap) they found remnants of glue. There was nothing at all to indicate the spot was a decoy.

 

Put yourself in that same situation. Common sense does not lead you to think, "Oh wait, this must be a decoy!"

 

Common sense suggests the cache "may have" once been glued inside the cap, but it came loose at some point and either fell down into the fence post or was carried away.

 

I wouldn't expect to find a decoy at a 1 difficulty cache. Especially one that proclaims itself a "park and grab"

I would expect a decoy to be identified as a decoy. (Otherwise, how do I know I just found a decoy?--I mean, c'mon, a glue spot doesn't = "really fun decoy" to me).

 

I think I would have emailed the owner to let them know their cache seemed to be missing. I don't think mommio was "totally unreasonable" in replacing what appeared to be a missing cache, as some of us seem to be suggesting.

 

I completely agree with Neos2's comments. The evidence said one thing and one thing only, cache is missing.

[+Mudfrog]

I can pretty much guarantee that most cachers who find a fence post cap with glue in it would think the same thing that mommio did. They would give up their search as soon as they found it. This was not a good decoy as there needs to be some indication that it is indeed a decoy when a cacher finds it. It's good to see that the owner ended up putting a "not here" note under that cap.

 

The only time we help by replacing a cache is when we find that the original container is messed up in some way. We might put out a temporary container to take it's place but we are sure to notify the cache owner of what we did, as soon as we can.

[+Kit Fox]

 

I completely agree with Neos2's comments. The evidence said one thing and one thing only, cache is missing.

 

The OP said that she found some glue on the bottom of a fence cap, she assumed that the cache was missing. She admitted that she stopped looking, and left. This is hardly "evidence of a missing cache."

 

Since when is a cache hidden underneath a fence post cap a one star difficulty hide anyway? One star should be super easy, and not concealed. If cacher assumed that the glue was in fact the missing cache, then they are actually looking for a 1.5 star or higher difficulty hide.

 

I

[+LeonW]

Hunting decoy?

 

If I should see a hunting decoy I would leave in a hurry, I am obviously looking in the wrong area and you don't mess with a hunter's decoys! The man with the gun is is not geocaching!

 

LeonW

[Zoptrop]

A good lesson...

 

I looked for a cache ("Dewey or Don't We") and at some point found an empty hole where a sprinkler head had once been (the plastic sleeve was still there in the ground) so I assumed the cache must be missing (hence the DEW in Dewey - obviously a fake sprinkler). I posted a note and the cache owner graciously and politely emailed me and explained that I was "smoking crack". As it turns out the cache name refers to the famous decimal system (cache is at a public library) and there was a re-director nearby that I didn't spot. I quickly edited my log (still haven't finished finding all the stages yet) and learned not to be so quick to jump to conculsions.

[+Cedar Grove Seekers]

If we can't find a cache we post a DNF. We might e-mail the owner if we strongly suspect that the cache is missing, but we still post a DNF

 

I believe, in some cases, those cachers who replace a potentially missing cache do it so that they can log a find.

[+Criminal]

Decoy?

 

I had a cache I wanted to do in a local wetlands park. It was going to be called Wild Goose Chase, and the cache was an ammo can hidden up under one of those giant goose decoys. I was fabricating a fake cigarette (the wild part) that would hang off its beak.

 

When I scouted the park though, I saw the sign that asks for visitors not to go down into the wetlands and to stay on the trail.

 

Now I have this giant goose decoy...

 

Edited March 23, 2007 by Criminal

[+Too Tall John]

Decoy?

 

I had a cache I wanted to do in a local wetlands park. It was going to be called Wild Goose Chase, and the cache was an ammo can hidden up under one of those giant goose decoys. I was fabricating a fake cigarette (the wild part) that would hang off its beak.

 

When I scouted the park though, I saw the sign that asks for visitors not to go down into the wetlands and to stay on the trail.

 

Now I have this giant goose decoy...

 

 

You could have given it a clown hat and called called the cache "Silly Goose".

 

Or get a second goose and place it with a note: "Not here" making a decoy of the decoy!

 

Set up a flock of them, except the cache wouldn't actually be in any of them. Keep the name "Wild Goose Chase."

 

Oh, the possibilities...

[+wb5zam]

Haven't found those two caches yet, so thanks Mommio for the clues.

I have over 140 out and haven't used the decoy. Guess who is now thinking hard on some new ones.

Love this forum for new ideas.

 

Hey! If you get to the San Angelo, TX area we have the full gamut of caches. Come stay at the State Park and collect those in the Park (encouraged by our local manager) as well as the ones in the parks and along the roads all over town.

 

Bill

WB5ZAM

San Angelo

in the Wilds of West Texas

[+Criminal]

Decoy?

 

I had a cache I wanted to do in a local wetlands park. It was going to be called Wild Goose Chase, and the cache was an ammo can hidden up under one of those giant goose decoys. I was fabricating a fake cigarette (the wild part) that would hang off its beak.

 

When I scouted the park though, I saw the sign that asks for visitors not to go down into the wetlands and to stay on the trail.

 

Now I have this giant goose decoy...

 

 

You could have given it a clown hat and called called the cache "Silly Goose".

 

Or get a second goose and place it with a note: "Not here" making a decoy of the decoy!

 

Set up a flock of them, except the cache wouldn't actually be in any of them. Keep the name "Wild Goose Chase."

 

Oh, the possibilities...

Dude, them things ain't cheap!

[+Too Tall John]

Decoy?

 

I had a cache I wanted to do in a local wetlands park. It was going to be called Wild Goose Chase, and the cache was an ammo can hidden up under one of those giant goose decoys. I was fabricating a fake cigarette (the wild part) that would hang off its beak.

 

When I scouted the park though, I saw the sign that asks for visitors not to go down into the wetlands and to stay on the trail.

 

Now I have this giant goose decoy...

 

 

You could have given it a clown hat and called called the cache "Silly Goose".

 

Or get a second goose and place it with a note: "Not here" making a decoy of the decoy!

 

Set up a flock of them, except the cache wouldn't actually be in any of them. Keep the name "Wild Goose Chase."

 

Oh, the possibilities...

Dude, them things ain't cheap!

I know, but I can dream, right? When I win the lottery I'll send you some. Or I'll do it myself & you can come do the cache.