Submitting Events

[Deceangi]

I've been asked to clarify some of the guidelines regarding the submitting of events. To avoid confusion.

 

Events may not be listed less than 2 weeks before the date it is going to take place, and no more than 3 months ahead, unless they are designed to attract a regional, national or international group of geocachers, in which case they may be listed up to 6 months ahead

 

Events may not be organised for the hunt of a cache or series of caches, but this may be an activity of a published event.

 

Events must be organised by and for geocachers, and must be open to all geocachers.

 

An event which has several component parts is one event not several linked events. A camping event taking place over several days, during which several activity's take place is all one event.

 

The organising of a Camping event linked to another published event in the local area will be considered to be one event.

 

Several events all taking place in the same local area on the same day will be considered to be one event.

 

Events may not be organised to solicit for charity, or have religious, political, or social agendas.

 

Events that are of a commercial nature must have prior approval of Groundspeak.

 

If in doubt ask one of the reviewers before submitting for publication.

 

 

Deceangi

[+badger]

snip...

Several events all taking place in the same local area on the same day will be considered to be one event.

...snip

 

So, two events organised in the same area, but on different days should be ok?

[Deceangi]

snip...

Several events all taking place in the same local area on the same day will be considered to be one event.

...snip

 

So, two events organised in the same area, but on different days should be ok?

 

As long as they are not in breach of

 

An event which has several component parts is one event not several linked events. A camping event taking place over several days, during which several activity's take place is all one event.

 

If the events are linked together they are still one event.

[The Royles]

The organising of a Camping event linked to another published event in the local area will be considered to be one event.

 

Does this mean I shouldnt have listed this as an event ?

 

Events must be organised by and for geocachers, and must be open to all geocachers.

 

What about camping events, where you need to camp to attend? (as the sites often have restrictions on visitors) - are these not listable as events.

 

I must say that the tone of this thread seems to indicate some strong feelings somewhere, and makes me wonder if it is worth trying to organize an event.

[SlytherinAlex]

Events must be organised by and for geocachers, and must be open to all geocachers.

 

Deceangi

What about all-ticket event where there are only a small amount of tickets available?

[Lactodorum]

Over the past few years we have tried to apply a "light touch" when publishing events and have applied a generous interpretation of the guidelines. This has led to a very welcome increase in the number and frequency of these gatherings. We cannot and will not turn a blind eye to the need to stick to the guidelines and all Events will be judged by them. However we will continue to try and abide by the spirit of them wherever possible.

 

Of course it is possible to find some events where we may have gone further in our interpretation than others but remember there is no precedent in allowing caches to be listed and each one is judged on its own merits. We may well make mistakes from time to time (I'm sure there are plenty of examples out there just waiting to be quoted back at us) but we feel ours is a better approach than a strict and unbending application of the guidelines.

 

When considering an event you can always contacts us first to see whether there are likely to be any problems and if we cannot reach a consensus there is the "Appeals Hotline" at appeals@geocaching.com. You can also ask us to take your case to the wider reviewing community for their opinion so our decision is not necessarily final.

[+third-degree-witch]

QUOTE(Deceangi @ Jul 24 2006, 11:37 PM)

 

Events must be organised by and for geocachers, and must be open to all geocachers.

 

Deceangi

 

Why is this the case ?. I held a private party/event purely as i had to limit numbers .why shouldnt i be able to hold an event with these considerations in place ?.I think the uk geocaching scene panders FAR to much to the weird & wonderful way the Americans like to run things.

 

my opinion..............................

Edited July 25, 2006 by third-degree-witch

[Lactodorum]

I think the uk geocaching scene panders FAR to much to the weird & wonderful way the Americans like to run things.

 

Fine. Geocaching is a free activity and there are a number of listing sites out there. AFAIK they all tend to be American based but you are at liberty to try any or all of them. If none are to your taste then you can set up a UK only listing service.

 

However, if you wish to use the services of www.geocaching.com you agree to abide by their rules and are bound by their guidelines. That's why Deceangi and I apply the guidelines when reviewing caches for listing on this site.

[+third-degree-witch]

i did abide by the rules ! thats why it was private. DOH

[alistair_uk]

So does this clarification mean the end of those McDonalds meet ups on days following an event being listed and logged? (other food dispensing establishments companies with equally annoying advertising campaigns are available.)

 

Thinking about it someone was thinking about arranging a camping event a few miles from the Newcastle event on the same weekend. This was so people could pop one the Metro to attend the event. Will the events need to combined in some way or do that look they separate enough?

 

Also if an event follows as CITO event will it being listed separately? I can see someone wanting to turn up and log the event without attending the CITO and tother way round.

[+HazelS]

Hmmmm

 

Another spanner in the works...

 

There's a camping event on over the weekend of the 22nd - 24th September in Lancs that I'd really like to go to. However, I was already planning on doing a small event here in Cheshire that weekend as it's my birthday, and I'd like to share it with my fellow cachers...

 

Now...

 

If I host my own event on the same weekend, somewhere nearby (as obviously my caching mates will all be at the camping event) will I not be able to because it is on the same weekend and in the vicinity of the camping event???

 

Very bizzarre.

[Deceangi]

So does this clarification mean the end of those McDonalds meet ups on days following an event being listed and logged? (other food dispensing establishments companies with equally annoying advertising campaigns are available.)

 

If the 2 are linked together as others have been they are one event.

 

Thinking about it someone was thinking about arranging a camping event a few miles from the Newcastle event on the same weekend. This was so people could pop one the Metro to attend the event. Will the events need to combined in some way or do that look they separate enough?

 

If the camping is organised with the aim of allowing those staying to attend another event then it is part of the one event.

 

Also if an event follows as CITO event will it being listed separately? I can see someone wanting to turn up and log the event without attending the CITO and tother way round.

 

As it is usual for the organiser of the CITO to also arrange for somewhere for those attending to go for something to eat and drink. It is one event. The accepted practice for logging a CITO event is now for those actually involved in the clean up to log a "Attended" whilst those who turn up for the social part of the event log a "Found".

[alistair_uk]

I have to say that I though it was getting a little silly with one weekend being a continual trek of events, but, following this interpretation you can get a CITO icon without actually participating in a CITO event.

 

As for the real life example, I see the camping event as an event in it's own right that is being organised on the same weekend for convenience, but that is where the synergy ends. Perhaps this is something to look at more closely should the camping event come to fruition.

 

The reason that I am a little ruffled by this is not that the logging of attendance, but the lack of a cache listing page for the elements. Perhaps it is worth bouncing the idea of a "Sub Event" cache type that can not be logged, or can be but will not increase peoples find count, but can contain the information for the different elements of a weekend.

[+MartyBartfast]

 

Events may not be organised to solicit for charity, or have religious, political, or social agendas.

 

Deceangi

 

Surely that's the whole point of most events (the social agenda that is), or am I being dim?

[+Mad H@ter]

Events must be organised by and for geocachers, and must be open to all geocachers.

 

What about camping events, where you need to camp to attend? (as the sites often have restrictions on visitors) - are these not listable as events.

Has this one been answered?

What about all-ticket event where there are only a small amount of tickets available?

Or this one?

 

I think clarification of this is important as it could put a stop to a lot of the very enjoyable camping events we are currently having, which IMHO would be an absolute travesty.

[markandlynn]

Events in the USA have been getting out of hand with double logging and numbers bumping for pocket caches, event only caches, extra increase your events attended events.

 

So I would GUESS that our approvers are passing on an edict from TPTB with regards to listing events.

[+The_Westies]

Events must be organised by and for geocachers, and must be open to all geocachers.

 

What about camping events, where you need to camp to attend? (as the sites often have restrictions on visitors) - are these not listable as events.

Has this one been answered?

 

Surely aren't all camping events still open to all geocachers as nothing is stopping them buying or even borrowing a tent.

[The Royles]

Surely aren't all camping events still open to all geocachers as nothing is stopping them buying or even borrowing a tent.

The problem is that if you HAVE to camp, it could be claimed that it is commercial (as you would need to pay for your pitch).

 

I understand the need for the guidelines, but if they are going to be strictly applied, most events will not be listed.

 

I am just setting up a camping event with another caching team, and would like to know now if it will be listed before I spend any more time on it.

 

So the question is, how are the guidelines going to be applied from now on? Clarification please Lacto or Deci.

[+The Cache Hoppers]

Andy! Please don't let this put you off organising a camping event!!!! Just tell us where and when asap. Quite honestly ... even if its not a loggable event, I think the regulars will still come along if they are free! We have plenty of ways of spreading the word without having it as a listed event.

[The Royles]

Dont panic lianne, The Great Redmondo and The Royles have it in hand (9 Sept). I have to do it, I have too many balloons left and a top idea for a kids cache

 

Anyway, sorry for the hijack, back on topic now.

[+t.a.folk]

As it is usual for the organiser of the CITO to also arrange for somewhere for those attending to go for something to eat and drink. It is one event. The accepted practice for logging a CITO event is now for those actually involved in the clean up to log a "Attended" whilst those who turn up for the social part of the event log a "Found".[/ quote]

 

Tentatively ask if the "found" would be more appropiate for those who were actualy involved in the clean up and "attended " for those who only attend the "eat and drink " part ?

[+third-degree-witch]

[+HazelS]

So does this clarification mean the end of those McDonalds meet ups on days following an event being listed and logged? (other food dispensing establishments companies with equally annoying advertising campaigns are available.)

 

If the 2 are linked together as others have been they are one event.

 

[

 

Right...

 

OK.... I had already been planning an event, but am having to move it closer tot he camping area (ie moving counties) so that extra people can join in the fun.... and it won't be allowed...

 

Would it not be easier to say - sorry - caching is no longer about having fun... you can't have events?????

[+housefamily]

The organising of a Camping event linked to another published event in the local area will be considered to be one event.

 

Most of the guidelines I can understand and fully agree with. However this new application of the rules (I assume it's not a change) seems a little unfair.

 

I'm just curious. What is the thinking/reasoning behind it?

Is there a concern that people are getting a cache-count for nothing?

[+Johnmelad]

 

Events must be organised by and for geocachers, and must be open to all geocachers.

 

Events may not be organised to solicit for charity, or have religious, political, or social agendas.

 

Deceangi

 

Q. Must they be open and accessible to disabled Cachers?

 

Q. Probably a good reason for this but why can't these events be organised for charity?

[Lactodorum]

So many questions!

 

Unfortunately I can't give you hard and fast answers because in so many cases "it all depends". All I will say is that we do our d.amndest to try and accommodate as many events as we can. We probably err on the side of generosity more than in some areas but occasionally we do have to say no as the interpretation of the guidelines may have gone just that bit too far.

 

Up to now we have tried to use our judgement and on occasions this has led to apparent inconsistencies. For this I apologise but I don't want to change the way we do things. The only way to give definitive answers to your perfectly reasonable questions is to adhere to the strictest possible interpretation of the guidelines and I'm pretty sure this would lead to far fewer, not more, events.

 

So by all means ask questions and pass comments but I shan't be drawn into answering each and every point in isolation as this could lead to unintended difficulties in the future.

[+purple_pineapple]

sheesh! is anyone not confused yet??

 

I'll ask Lacto / Deci a specific question, which should get a nice one word answer....

 

Has anything changed? Was the original post made because there is going to be a stricter interpretation of the guidelines, or simply to clarify the current stance?

 

The reason I ask is that at the moment, it appears that everybody is happy. We can have (or have done in the past) more than one event in the same area on the same day, especially if they are hosted by different people (why has nobody mentioned this bit??! ) and if the status quo is being maintained, then nobody needs to get their knickers in a twist!!

 

If things will be different, and stricter, then thats another story....

 

Cheers!

 

Dave

[+purple_pineapple]

 

Q. Probably a good reason for this but why can't these events be organised for charity?

 

Don't ask!

 

Basically, TPTB decided that rather than offend various anti-this/pro-that organisations, none would be allowed. Rightly or wrongly, (and I can sometimes see their point - there are many more 'contentious' charities in the USA than here), thats the way it is!

[alistair_uk]

Q. Must they be open and accessible to disabled Cachers?

Personally I will make an event accessible by wheelchair if I can and current legislation makes this task easier when finding a venue, but you have to be realistic. A handycacher is not going to climb Sarfell so comen sense is needed on this on.

 

Q. Probably a good reason for this but why can't these events be organised for charity?

This has been discussed in great depth before so I suggest searching back through the forum archives for an answer to his.

[+Moote]

There is nothing to say that I can't organise an event, near to another event on the same day. Especially if the other event is not organised by me.

 

Then if people Choose to attend a Breakfast Bash, followed a few miles down the road attending another Cachers event for the afternoon, then to attend a camping event in the general location and organised by a 3rd Cacher.

 

Reading the GC rules, this is OK

 

The moral of this story is, Do it the Manc boys way!

[+Simply Paul]

Snippy/ A handycacher is not going to climb Sarfell so comen sense is needed on this on. /snip.

I'd be more than happy to help any disabled cacher who felt they'd manage to get to to the top up Scafell. Disability does include less physically restrictive conditions, such as deafness, and I have seen several blind people, including a woman in her 70s (approx.) climbing Ben Nevis. I keep an open mind on what's possible, for anyone.

 

More OT, as we know there's 'not that many' event caches, we can be sure each and every one will get careful inspection before being ok'd or rejected because of the firmer parts of the Groundspeak guidelines. Either way, you can rest assured the Reviewers will do all they can to help you, and give practical tips on how to present the event in a format that's acceptable to our MATO (Masters Across The Ocean). Panic over.

 

And here's a photo taken yesterday. It has nothing to do with the subject, but you'll understand why I wanted to share

[Lactodorum]

sheesh! is anyone not confused yet??

 

I'll ask Lacto / Deci a specific question, which should get a nice one word answer....

 

Has anything changed? <snip>

 

No!

 

and yes

 

There is no change anticipated nor has there been for a while in the guidelines. All that has changed is that people are (possibly rightly) getting more inventive. This means that what was a simple thing to interpret a year ago is not so simple now.

 

Walking that tightrope between allowing an event and ensuring the spirit of the guidelines is an art, not a science.

[+Cryptik Souls Crew]

Well, I think this is a good thing.

 

A while back there was a thread about mega events (500+ people), and whether we would ever have one in the UK. The more camping events I saw pop up which were a precursor to an event the following day the less likely I ever thought we would ever have a mega event here, it just makes the focus too diluted.

 

The only impact this will actually have on anyone is you will only be able to claim 1 event for your campout and event. 1 find is no big deal, it doesn't actually mean anything.

 

When organising an event its easy to find a local campsite, event if you have no intention of camping its not difficult to put enough info on there so people from further afield can meet up and camp if they want. Why let someone else arrange the camping and steal your thunder? Its your event, make it one to remember!

 

Don't look on it as a setback, but more of a challenge, think big with your event!

[The Royles]

Well, I think this is a good thing.

 

I am still trying to find out what THIS is.

[+Cryptik Souls Crew]

Well, I think this is a good thing.

 

I am still trying to find out what THIS is.

 

I thought from the content of my post it would be fairly obvious which guidelines I was referring to, but just to clarify:

 

The organising of a Camping event linked to another published event in the local area will be considered to be one event.

 

Several events all taking place in the same local area on the same day will be considered to be one event.

[foetus]

I've been asked to clarify...

 

Events must be organised by and for geocachers, and must be open to all geocachers.

 

Deceangi

 

Does this mean we can't have a Members Only Event. The americans are nothing if not inconsistent

 

Added: link

Edited July 25, 2006 by foetus

[alistair_uk]

To help clarify the situation can someone (err, Lacto) identify anything that was allowed in the past but will not be allowed now?

[Lactodorum]

To help clarify the situation can someone (err, Lacto) identify anything that was allowed in the past but will not be allowed now?

To be honest I don't think I can name any specifics.

 

There's been a couple of "pre" or "post" event events that we probably shouldn't have published but did. However that was probably down to a misinterpretation of existing guidelines on our part. We all live and learn!

[+TMM-Sarah]

I know it doesn't take much but I'm confused!

 

If an event has to be open for everyone to attend then surely no events will ever be published because not everyone can make (for varying reasons) every event.

 

I thought the whole point of an event cache was a pre-arranged meeting of cachers in a particular place for enjoyment.

 

I'd like to add I hate issues being made out of nothing. Surely two events in one area on the same weekend is fine. I can't see many people complaining about that!

 

And also, surely at a CITO event the purpose is to CITO and therefore the purpose of a camping event is to Camp! Please correct me if I'm wrong.

 

Sorry, if this doesn't make sense. I quite often confuse myself too!

 

Sarah

Edited July 26, 2006 by The Morgan Mob

[+The Bolas Heathens]

Surely you just make a point of saying that event B is in no way connected with event A and just happens to be in the same area on the same weekend (pure co-incidence). I can't see how they would not both get approved...

I'd like to add I hate issues being made out of nothing. Surely two events in one area on the same weekend is fine. I can't see many people complaining about that!

[Lactodorum]

Surely you just make a point of saying that event B is in no way connected with event A and just happens to be in the same area on the same weekend (pure co-incidence). I can't see how they would not both get approved...

I'd like to add I hate issues being made out of nothing. Surely two events in one area on the same weekend is fine. I can't see many people complaining about that!

Nothing gets "Approved" these days, it get "Published"

 

And yes!

[Lactodorum]

I know it doesn't take much but I'm confused!

 

If an event has to be open for everyone to attend then surely no events will ever be published because not everyone can make (for varying reasons) every event.

 

I thought the whole point of an event cache was a pre-arranged meeting of cachers in a particular place for enjoyment.

 

I'd like to add I hate issues being made out of nothing. Surely two events in one area on the same weekend is fine. I can't see many people complaining about that!

 

And also, surely at a CITO event the purpose is to CITO and therefore the purpose of a camping event is to Camp! Please correct me if I'm wrong.

 

Sorry, if this doesn't make sense. I quite often confuse myself too!

 

Sarah

Well it makes perfect sense to me and I find myself agreeing

[+Cave Troll and Eeyore]

As I see it a CITO Event is recognised as a special event by GC.com with its own icon , whereas a camping event comes under the same umbrella as a standard event , in that it has the normal icon and therefore there is no requirement to actually pitch a tent or take a caravan and stay on site , just a requirement to attend on the day.

[+slimey]

As I see it a CITO Event is recognised as a special event by GC.com with its own icon , whereas a camping event comes under the same umbrella as a standard event , in that it has the normal icon and therefore there is no requirement to actually pitch a tent or take a caravan and stay on site , just a requirement to attend on the day.

 

As I see it, the problem exists where:

 

- Event A is planned, and published. It's a daytime event.

 

- Some people decide they want to camp either side of Event A, and publish Event B, which those people who camp 'attend'

 

- Some more people decide they're going to go out to a pub in the evening, after event A, stick a cache in the carpark (to make it geocaching related), and publish Event C.

 

In this situation, I fully agree that those should be merged into one event 'ABC'

 

However, if:

 

- person X decides to hold an event at a location, and publishes event A. The event has a theme making it more suitable for, say, mountain climbers.

 

- person Y decides to also hold an event, about 1 mile from event A, and publishes event B. Being a kind and considerate cacher, they notice that event A is happening, and targets their event at kids and the 'less strenuous' walkers.

 

In this situation, I can see that both events should be able to exist.

 

S

 

-

[Lactodorum]

As I see it a CITO Event is recognised as a special event by GC.com with its own icon , whereas a camping event comes under the same umbrella as a standard event , in that it has the normal icon and therefore there is no requirement to actually pitch a tent or take a caravan and stay on site , just a requirement to attend on the day.

 

As I see it, the problem exists where:

 

- Event A is planned, and published. It's a daytime event.

 

- Some people decide they want to camp either side of Event A, and publish Event B, which those people who camp 'attend'

 

- Some more people decide they're going to go out to a pub in the evening, after event A, stick a cache in the carpark (to make it geocaching related), and publish Event C.

 

In this situation, I fully agree that those should be merged into one event 'ABC'

 

However, if:

 

- person X decides to hold an event at a location, and publishes event A. The event has a theme making it more suitable for, say, mountain climbers.

 

- person Y decides to also hold an event, about 1 mile from event A, and publishes event B. Being a kind and considerate cacher, they notice that event A is happening, and targets their event at kids and the 'less strenuous' walkers.

 

In this situation, I can see that both events should be able to exist.

 

S

 

-

I agree

[+purple_pineapple]

I have to say, I'm not quite sure what the problem is with having the events listed as A B and C, in the above example.

 

To extend the analogy a bit - a cache has one location and only one location - it may move about, but it only ever has one set of coords at the top of the page - so why should an event be any different? I quite often navigate to events by coords, but if the above three different ones all have one set of coords, then how can I?

 

Admittedly, there are the additional waypoints, but what happens if each of A B and C above have some parking coords as well? are we allowed 3 sets of parking coords? and how do we know which one is for which? And what additional waypoint 'code' do we use for 'another event location'? There isn't one that fits the bill really?

 

Finally, what if all three events are organised by different people? One person arranginng the camping part, and another arranging the 'daytime fun'? Who gets the e-mails? Surely both need them, to keep track of relevent numbers, and I'm not aware that thats possible!

 

Just my 50p worth (inflation....)

 

Cheers!

 

Dave

[+Tupperware Hunters]

Nice weather we are having at the mo :-)

[+Cave Troll and Eeyore]

 

Finally, what if all three events are organised by different people? One person arranginng the camping part, and another arranging the 'daytime fun'? Who gets the e-mails? Surely both need them, to keep track of relevent numbers, and I'm not aware that thats possible!

 

Just my 50p worth (inflation....)

 

Cheers!

 

Dave

 

I think that 2 of the organisers would have to put the event page on their watch list in order to get the emails.

[+housefamily]

 

Finally, what if all three events are organised by different people? One person arranginng the camping part, and another arranging the 'daytime fun'? Who gets the e-mails? Surely both need them, to keep track of relevent numbers, and I'm not aware that thats possible!

 

Just my 50p worth (inflation....)

 

Cheers!

 

Dave

 

I think that 2 of the organisers would have to put the event page on their watch list in order to get the emails.

 

But only 1 person would be able to edit it...

At the end of the day it probably means that cache organisers have to organise the camping and post-event drinkies too.

[+Sensei TSKC]

Who says it's not about the numbers?