When Is A Cache To Hard To Find?

[+fox-and-the-hound]

We put out a new muti cache and made it very hard to find. Now we have players E-mailing us asking for Help(each stage gets harder, they are getting stuck on stage 3). They want to be the first to find(there are is a very nice ftf prize and geocoins). We left (crytric) clues at each part. How much help is too much. And do we have to help. These players are crying about how hard it is. What are your thoughts. Fox {fox-and-the-hound}

[+ParrotRobAndCeCe]

I think it's completely up to you to decide whether you want to give out hints or not. IMHO, I wouldn't give out any hints at all until someone found it, especially if you've got a nice FTF prize(s) in there.

[+briansnat]

If you want to help and how much you want to help is entirely up to you. As long as you rated the difficulty correctly, let them cry about how hard it is. A 3.5 star difficulty cache is supposed to be hard, so I'm not sure what they are expecting.

 

The definition of 3 stars is that it is a challenge for an experienced geocacher and could take a good part of an afternoon to find, so 3.5 stars seems to fit with what I see in the logs. If there are more DNFs, perhaps you can bump it to 4 stars.

Edited February 13, 2006 by briansnat

[+StarBrand]

You might make certain that other cachers are not misinterpreting your instructions. What seems clear to you may be a bit confusing to others.

 

For Example, a cache I once visited asked to cachers to "add together the first 3 numbers and the last 3 numbers and add to the Longitude". So does that mean (A+B+C)+(D+E+F) or (ABC)+(DEF)??

 

(the first example was correct but I thought it was the second)

 

Check with others and make sure.

[+BigWhiteTruck]

Although it is up to you how hard you want it to be, you hould know that there is no such thing as a cache too hard. If it were me I would offer words of encouragement and perhaps some teasing to the whining dnfers. I understand that you want someone to find your cache, but eventually someone will come along who is up to the task.

[+BigFurryMonster]

Can we have a link to the cache so we can laugh at them ?

[+Team GPSaxophone]

We put out a new muti cache and made it very hard to find. Now we have players E-mailing us asking for Help(each stage gets harder, they are getting stuck on stage 3). They want to be the first to find(there are is a very nice ftf prize and geocoins). We left (crytric) clues at each part. How much help is too much. And do we have to help. These players are crying about how hard it is. What are your thoughts. Fox {fox-and-the-hound}

You don't have to help them, provide them with additional clues, or whatever. As long as your cache is rated appropriately, it can't be too hard.

[+Team GPSaxophone]

Can we have a link to the cache so we can laugh at them ?

He only owns 3 caches, so it shouldn't be too hard to figure out which one it is

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

If you still can't figure it out, click here

[+ThePropers]

It's only been 3 days since it was approved. Like others mentioned, I wouldn't give a hint to anyone until someone finds it, but that's me.

[+wimseyguy]

If it were my cache, I might go and double check things myself before doing any taunting. I certainly wouldn't give up any hints to help a FTF.

Heck I have one that has only been found a few times in 2+ years and I still don't like to give up hints on it. Sometimes a hard to find cache is just that. Anyone whining for a hint to become FTF on a hard cache should stick to 1/1's.

[+Tsmola]

I wouldn't worry about it, the cachers will find it eventually. Difficult multis can go a long time between finds because some people are too lazy to tackle them and want the easy finds. I finished a 3/3 multi on Sat and I was only the 9th one to find it, despite the fact it had been there for over a year, then yesterday I did a 5/3, nine stager that also goes a long time between finds. Yet the easier traditional ones nearby get hit up quite often.

 

I'd sit back and enjoy, especially if you've been had by cachers placed by the people searching before lol

Edited February 13, 2006 by Tsmola

[bogleman]

Anyone whining for a hint to become FTF on a hard cache should stick to 1/1's.

 

LOL. I agree. I have gone after several hard caches BY MY OWN CHOICE. I knew they were hard and I (sometimes) enjoy a challenge. The urge to find the cache can be overpowering at times. As already mentioned, since it is new - I would let it ride until several finders get there. I am sure that once it is found the pressure for hints will go to them.

 

OBTY - is is possible that stage #3 could have moved from it's intended hiding spot? Some critter found a stage that I was looking for and moved it about 10 feet away from the intended hising spot. Mabye a little hug and let them know that #3 is safe & secure.

[+Airmapper]

Cool, maybe this will be the next "Shelter II."

[+Renegade Knight]

Two thoughts.

 

1) If it's rated correcty, no cache is too hard. Anyone who has ever read the time frame for finding the cache as the stars go up should not be suprised.

2) Even if it is rated correct if the people looking for the cache are terraforming the land around it to where the land manager would not like what they see...It's too hard, or in the wrong spot for that difficulty.

[+cudlecub]

I've spent 2 days devoted to a new multi that had me going thru a cemetary gathering numbers from headstones and statues, only to find the hiders computations were off. So I was a FTF their math was off and finally got the FTF on it.

 

There's one in a near by town that is supposedly a Mr Magneto painted the same color as the gravel in a flower bed. There's been various cachers employ different methods of locating it. There's been large magnets run over the area and even one cacher who brought a metal detector for the search. Their search has come up empty.

 

With a nice FTF prize, I'd make them earn it unless there's something off on your computations.

[+whistler & co.]

We are one of the people looking for this cache, and let me assure everyone that WE are not "crying" about how hard it is. We are also not looking for this cache IN ORDER to be FTF. Actually, let me rephrase that...we DO like to be FTF when we can, but it's NOT to get a first finder's prize. If we do happen to be FTF for this cache, it would actually be the first FTF prize we will have ever seen (none of the other FTF's we achieved even had a FTF prize). If we happen to be FTF for this cache, we will certainly leave the first finder's prize for the second finders, or whoever wants it.

 

We went out to hunt for this cache because we love caching. We will continue to look for it because it is a nice area, and because we like the challenge, and because we are not quitters. We are also not whiners. I sent the cache owners an email this morning and told them where I think the elusive part three was hidden, explained that I am not tall enough to reach that high, and said that I would carry something to stand on in order to retrive it if they confirm it's there (I believe I said something like "I will feel pretty darn stupid carrying a Rubbermaid kitchen stepstool all that way for nothing). If that's asking too much, then apologies to the cache owners, the geocaching community in general, and anyone who feels offended.

 

I do not think this cache should be made easier, I do not think any cache owners are ever OBLIGATED to provide hints, and I do not think that "laughing at" people who post DNF's is going to promote honesty, goodwill, or kindness in the world of geocaching (or anywhere lese, for that matter). After all, people, it is a GAME we're discussing here. Just a GAME.

[+fox-and-the-hound]

We are one of the people looking for this cache, and let me assure everyone that WE are not "crying" about how hard it is. We are also not looking for this cache IN ORDER to be FTF. Actually, let me rephrase that...we DO like to be FTF when we can, but it's NOT to get a first finder's prize. If we do happen to be FTF for this cache, it would actually be the first FTF prize we will have ever seen (none of the other FTF's we achieved even had a FTF prize). If we happen to be FTF for this cache, we will certainly leave the first finder's prize for the second finders, or whoever wants it.

 

We went out to hunt for this cache because we love caching. We will continue to look for it because it is a nice area, and because we like the challenge, and because we are not quitters. We are also not whiners. I sent the cache owners an email this morning and told them where I think the elusive part three was hidden, explained that I am not tall enough to reach that high, and said that I would carry something to stand on in order to retrive it if they confirm it's there (I believe I said something like "I will feel pretty darn stupid carrying a Rubbermaid kitchen stepstool all that way for nothing). If that's asking too much, then apologies to the cache owners, the geocaching community in general, and anyone who feels offended.

 

I do not think this cache should be made easier, I do not think any cache owners are ever OBLIGATED to provide hints, and I do not think that "laughing at" people who post DNF's is going to promote honesty, goodwill, or kindness in the world of geocaching (or anywhere lese, for that matter). After all, people, it is a GAME we're discussing here. Just a GAME.

 

Fox just called me minutes ago and told me he posted a forum and that you might have been offended. Please be assured that was not our intention at all. Fox has asked be to convey his most sincere apologies if you feel you have been wronged. We have the highest respect for you and your most welcome advice and encouragement over the past weeks. We have several more caches of this caliber in the works right this minute and we are concerned that we be fair to everyone involved for the sake of our future caches and friendships.

 

Both our most sincere apologies for any hard feelings. That is not good form and as you come to know us you will know that for us this is all about having fun. We want you to come to love our caches as we do yours. Our laughter is purely that of delight at having built a cache that is capable of giving good cachers a good hunt and nothing more.

 

Most Sincerly, Fox-And-The-Hound

[+Bill & Tammy]

Let me first say that I usually break down and provide a hint if asked so you may want to take the following with a grain of salt because of who it is coming, although I am seriously reconsidering the practice. I think giving out hints kind of dumbs down some really challenging caches, leveling everything out to some degree of mediocrity. Just because one seek a caches doesn't entitle them to find it. Sure they may whine, I gripe a bit too when I come home empty handed from fishing but that really isn't the point.

 

As a cache owner wear those DNF's as a badge of honor to your cleverness.

Edited February 13, 2006 by Bill & Tammy

[+Katydid & Miles Stone]

If by chance you do provide hints prior to the FTF, I believe you should post it on the cache page so all have the same opportunity. It is best to also do it via an encrypted log note so all on the watch list will get an email copy. On the other hand, there's noting wrong with letting them suffer a while. MS

[+whistler & co.]

Well, people...it's been found!

 

Oh well, now that the FTF question is out of the way, everyone can enjoy this cache, no strings attached.

 

Keep them coming, F & H.

[+The Leprechauns]

My own policy is that I don't give out hints without a logged DNF, and then I try very hard to give the same hint to everyone who writes and asks. It would not be fair to give a total spoiler hint to a caching buddy, and a cryptic half-hint to someone from across town that I've never met. Now, sometimes *everyone* gets the cryptic half-hint. The harder the cache, the less helpful the hints. I think of them more as nudges in the right direction.

[Clan Riffster]

I have a slightly different perspective;

I have several puzzle caches of moderate difficulty. My objective in creating a puzzle is to challenge the community to the degree they want to be challenged, and to get folks to find my ammo cans. I made the puzzles easy so that anyone brighter than me, (which is just about everyone), should be able to solve them without brain cramps. Those who do cramp up, and ask for help, will get all the help they need to solve the puzzle. I'll even go so far as to give the coordinates to someone who asks for them in their first hint request.

 

Just my $0.02

[+Davispak]

I am of the opinion that no hints should be given until a FTF is logged. If no FTF is logged after a few weeks, (two-four weeks depending on your preference) then I believe hints can be given out. This allows people who want the challenge get the chance before it is given away.

[+Tharagleb]

If you check out my puzzle caches you might see something interesting on the right hand side of the page.

 

Why? So people would go out and find them.

[+e3brown]

The original poster brought up an interesting point. I happen to be addicted to finding and hiding difficult caches (not puzzles, I do well to solve a 2 puzzle). One of my hides (GCR8VR) has not been found often but many have searched. Of course many more have searched than have logged DNF's. Its amazing how much private email I have received on this cache. Much of it has asked for hints while some of it has been filled with vitriolic comments about the hide being too difficult to find. Yet others have posted very positive comments and seem to enjoy the challenge. Since I was offering a slightly used (about 30 minutes) handheld TV for the FTF, I didn't think it would be fair to offer hints until it had been found by someone. IMHO a person who searches with a hint should never claim FTF. They have an unfair advantage.

 

I will continue to hunt and hide challenging hides. As far as providing hints, I learned a new tactic from Leprechauns' post. From now on, I shall offer a clue only to those who have posted a DNF first. For those that don't post a DNF because of perceived ego issues, no hint.

 

Happy Hunting

[+Team Cotati]

Most caches are hidden so that they can be found. If no one can find yours, does that matter? Do you have any particular time threshold in mind? I mean if no one found it in a year, would that bother you? Personally I want people to find my caches that is the main reason that I hide relatively easy caches. That and the fact that I won't hide caches that I wouldn't also personally hunt. I guess that some people hide caches that they know won't be found very often, was that your objective? You seem to be enjoying the frequent interactions with your fellow cachers, just let it ride and most of all HAVE FUN!!

 

To each his own I suppose.

Edited February 17, 2006 by Team Cotati