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Do People Lie About Finds To Pad Their Numbers?

DAD-DONT-GET-US-LOST
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DAD-DONT-GET-US-LOST

DAD-DONT-GET-US-LOST

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I put up a website to try and promote geocaching in WV to find others interested in the sport. I put a poll up where people can vote. If you want you can go there and cast a vote. www.wvgeocaching.com

It's a non-commercial site.

 

Or just list your thoughts here. Just curious?

 

Do you think people lie about findings to pad their numbers?

 

How many says 80% or more do?

60% or more?

40% or less

Nobody would lie?

 

Dad

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DAD-DONT-GET-US-LOST

DAD-DONT-GET-US-LOST

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I'm sure that some do, but I bet that its less than 1%.

 

I agree fully. I just sometimes wonder when I see someone's numbers are so high, but you look and they list boo-coo numbers.

 

Wondered if they became geofanatics or if they see the big numbers that many have in the forum and want to impress people.

 

What would be the fun in that? I don't usually log DNFs unless I'm not going back, but I'd never log a find I didn't actually find. Besides, it's the fun of the hunt, not the numbers that I enjoy.

 

Well, that and getting out and about with the family or friends! :D

 

Makes sense to me. I have logged a DNF at myrtle beach in a homeless area. All we found was feces and birth control. Apparently others did the same since.

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DAD-DONT-GET-US-LOST

DAD-DONT-GET-US-LOST

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some do, probably not a lot, but then, who cares?

 

What KoosKoos said! If they want to fool themselves so be it. The one's I have seen are known to do it and people don't take them to seriously anyway.

 

JDandDD

 

It would be obvious for me to attend a geocache event and be slow. See my numbers. If I said I had 500 finds, you would expect better. I would like to see some events have competitions based upon numbers found. If you have more finds, your skills are probably better. I know it has gotten easier today that it was six months ago for me. The padded bluffs will be found out -- period.

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JDandDD

+JDandDD

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Oh that one could take us way off topic, but as a number of threads have pointed out equating numbers with skills doesn't work. You can be very skilled and yet have small numbers because you live in an area with fewer caches than an another. Numbers have never worked as a good measure.

 

JDandDD

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DAD-DONT-GET-US-LOST

DAD-DONT-GET-US-LOST

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Oh that one could take us way off topic, but as a number of threads have pointed out equating numbers with skills doesn't work. You can be very skilled and yet have small numbers because you live in an area with fewer caches than an another. Numbers have never worked as a good measure.

 

JDandDD

 

never looked at it that way before. Good answer!

 

In my experience, the people with several thousand finds under their belt have a few things in common.

1) They really, really like the hobby.

2) They put lots of time into it.

3) Their experience makes them really good.

 

You do have to get better with finds. I think it has gotten a little easier for me, and I havent got 30 yet. I still spend 30 minutes at the location sometimes before the find, but hey its all in the game right.

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Deliveryguy428

+Deliveryguy428

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It is not so much lieing as it is...ok I have a family of 10 , we all have a GPS we all go in different directions for a day and log 10 caches each. We all come home and log the caches under one account, one day 100 find...not a lie and like Sbell said, they love the hobby, it gets them outside, it gets them to places people might never have known about if it was not for geocaching.

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DAD-DONT-GET-US-LOST

DAD-DONT-GET-US-LOST

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It is not so much lieing as it is...ok I have a family of 10 , we all have a GPS we all go in different directions for a day and log 10 caches each. We all come home and log the caches under one account, one day 100 find...not a lie and like Sbell said, they love the hobby, it gets them outside, it gets them to places people might never have known about if it was not for geocaching.

 

Thats interesting.

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budd-rdc

+budd-rdc

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Short answer: I do not know.

 

The OP's concern is legitimate, since it's about credibility. Not sure if we can get an accurate % of "lies" since there is no easy way to get enough sampling to accurate predict that. Probably isn't worth the time and effort anyway.

 

I did spot a "fake find" recently, which was kinda cool because I thought I'd never see one. Maybe I should start doing that, too, since I'm beginning to feel like an idiot - I've gone on long hikes, scrambled up steep terrains, risked poison oak infections, dug through snow, and got myself all dirty and sometimes I don't even give myself a stupid smiley for my efforts.

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sept1c_tank

+sept1c_tank

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...Do you think people lie about findings to pad their numbers?

 

I think it is probably more accurate to assume that people lie about findings to hide their DNFs. There is probably some (negligently small) number of cachers who lie for the purpose of inflating their numbers, but I don't really care about them. :D:D

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briansnat

+briansnat

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yeah, but who are they hurting? who cares?

 

As some us have explained before, lying about finding a cache is not like cheating at solitare. It can (and has) affected others. By lying about a find you are in essence telling the community that the cache is there. If the cache is in reality missing, it can cause people to go out in search of the cache and when they get there, to put in extra time because "It has to be here, LiarCacher was here yesterday and found it". I don't see wasting the precious time of others as harmless.

 

I recall one geocacher who was lured into a fruitless 100 mile RT drive to a cache because someone posted a false find on a cache he was watching. Do you think he thought it was a harmless prank?

 

Also, many cache owners use our logs to determine the need for maintenance. If they see a DNF or two and plan to make a maint trip, then LiarCacher comes along and lies and says the cache is there, it will delay needed maintenance.

 

As far as the OP's question, I have no idea how prevalent lying is, but this thread shows that its a lot more common than some people think. Overall I think the vast majority of cachers are honest, but there is a significant number who are so concerned about their numbers that they throw honesty out the window.

 

What KoosKoos said! If they want to fool themselves so be it. The one's I have seen are known to do it and people don't take them to seriously anyway.

 

On the contrary, I know some that are treated like celebrities wherever they go. It's probably part of the reason for cheating. People see that and they want to be a celebrity too.

Edited by briansnat
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Isonzo Karst

+Isonzo Karst

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I beleieve more people pad thier DNF count. MS

 

Hey, I've been accused of that, take it easy! :blink:

 

I'm much more concerned with the folks who rarely or never post online. I made a medium drive and 6 mile bike/hike maintenance run last week on a cache that had 2 recent visits, unlogged. Had either of those cachers logged online, I could have done something else with my time. (Not that I didn't enjoy that hike in that area).

 

I really really really don't care much about your numbers. And I've seen no overt cheating, some errors (wrong cache logged) and some calling a find when it was find of a part of the cache, or cache mount - stuff that I would consider a DNF, but that's the cache owner's call.

 

The high numbers cachers I know and have cached with travel a lot and cache hard at every opportunity.

They've spend significant dollars on gear as well - wifi, laptop, the whole package.

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Mopar

+Mopar

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It is not so much lieing as it is...ok I have a family of 10 , we all have a GPS we all go in different directions for a day and log 10 caches each. We all come home and log the caches under one account, one day 100 find...not a lie and like Sbell said, they love the hobby, it gets them outside, it gets them to places people might never have known about if it was not for geocaching.

 

I've heard this before, but nobody has actually named the account. I don't know of any high count geocachers that fall into that description. I guess it's possible. I do know there are many many family accounts with more "average" find stats that might not always do all the caches together. Hubby might grab a quick one on the way to work one day for FTF, while the wife and kids hit one in the park after school. Or maybe hubby grabs a few in another state while away on business. I don't think they are really trying to cheat, just out playing the game.

 

I personally don't do things that way, since it would really bug me having caches listed as found that I haven't visited yet. My wife and I have separate accounts for our finds(it helps that we were both active cachers before we met) and even our 9yr old has his own account. We do have a "team account" that we use when we hide a cache together.

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GPSOkie

+GPSOkie

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As with all games I've been involved in, I've found that people who cheat, quickly burn out and leave the game. Cheating takes away the fun for the cheater but has little impact on the other players. I'm honest with my numbers and the people that cache with me are honest with theirs and that's all that really matters to me. I don't think I would enjoy caching with someone who is dishonest but other than that, I don't see an impact on me personally.

 

Edit: Now I guess if someone is cheating by placing caches that they never actually placed, that would be a different story !! :blink:

Edited by GPSOkie
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briansnat

+briansnat

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I'm with Mopar. I know some of the huge number cachers. I see alot of dedication to the game there. They're not cheaters.

 

Most of them are not cheaters. Some however are blatant cheaters and many have very interesting definitions of what a "find" consists of and it often doesn't include finding a cache.

 

I found an archived cache that was logged as a find by a number of people after it was removed, via something called a "retirement card". Apparently a "retirement card" allows people to log finds on archived caches if they run into the owner and sign one of these cards. In this case these "finders" all had counts over 1,400 and two had over 5,000 "finds".

 

In the thread I linked to in my above post, there are some prominent "heavy hitters" who are are mentioned quite frequently.

Edited by briansnat
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johndmann

johndmann

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The whole point of the logs is to record activities related to the cache, even if you don't find it. Posting multiple DNFs on a cache is not a bad thing at all.

 

I always log a DNF, but explain in the log that I am or am not going back to look again, and why I said DNF. Usually it is something about me running out of time, or just couldn't figure it out. All of them I will keep trying until I find them.

 

Multiple DNF's I disagree with. I just go back and edit my log. I leave the same information from the first DNF trip I made, but insert the second DNF information above it

 

Tried for a second time to snag this cache, but just simply could not figure out where it could be hiding! I'm sure it is there somewhere, and I will be back to look in a few days.

--------

Ran out of time this day, the sun was going down, and was hungry. Will come back soon to give the area a thorough look over.

 

When I find the cache, I simply edit the log, and chage the log type. You just flip it from DNF to Found It, and type in your report on top of your last DNF log entry. This way, you have a single log for that cache which contains all of your previous information about your attempts. It just makes more sense to me that way :) I like things nice and tidy.

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JDandDD

+JDandDD

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What KoosKoos said! If they want to fool themselves so be it. The one's I have seen are known to do it and people don't take them to seriously anyway.

 

On the contrary, I know some that are treated like celebrities wherever they go. It's probably part of the reason for cheating. People see that and they want to be a celebrity too.

 

I didn't write that very week, it should have read "The one's I have seen and are known to do it, people don't take them seriously anyway." What a difference word order makes, got to be more careful.

 

But I agree, that the one's who cheat likely do want the celebrity treatment. Still, I think most people are honest from what I've seen.

 

JDandDD

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Salvelinus

+Salvelinus

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I'm with Mopar. I know some of the huge number cachers. I see alot of dedication to the game there. They're not cheaters.

 

Send me a pvt email when you are willing to see the evidence.

 

Yeah they cache daily, if you want to call that dedicated...fine. But there is a fair amout of "claiming things that aren't true" going on as well.

 

Most of us have lost respect long ago.

 

Salvelinus

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sbell111

+sbell111

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I'm with Mopar. I know some of the huge number cachers. I see alot of dedication to the game there. They're not cheaters.

 

Send me a pvt email when you are willing to see the evidence.

 

Yeah they cache daily, if you want to call that dedicated...fine. But there is a fair amout of "claiming things that aren't true" going on as well.

 

Most of us have lost respect long ago.

 

Salvelinus

I'll take a pass. I have no idea who you are referring to and I don't really care. Thanks anyway.

 

When I find the cache, I simply edit the log, and chage the log type. You just flip it from DNF to Found It, and type in your report on top of your last DNF log entry. This way, you have a single log for that cache which contains all of your previous information about your attempts. It just makes more sense to me that way :ph34r: I like things nice and tidy.

I realize that many people change (or delete) their DNFs when they find the cache. Personally, I would rather those logs stayed and they merely add a new 'find' log. This maintains the history of the cache and gives a more realistic representation of its difficulty. Also, DNF logs are often the most interesting to read.

 

EDIT: This is the perfect example of why I don't like the way the new forums combine posts. The two thoughts expressed here are completely different. I would not like one to be colored by the other.

Edited by sbell111
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ChinCache

+ChinCache

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Do uber cachers lie? YES Anothyer cacher and myself logged a dnf for a cache because we could not find it. we found the spot where a cache would have been, so we e-mail the owner for a hint in case we were wrong. the next day two uber cachers could not find and e-mail the owner and said " found where cache should have been " and logged it as a find. WHAT KINDA BULL IS THAT? by the way the cache was missing and the owner had to replace it.

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The Leprechauns

+The Leprechauns

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Do uber cachers lie? YES Anothyer cacher and myself logged a dnf for a cache because we could not find it. we found the spot where a cache would have been, so we e-mail the owner for a hint in case we were wrong. the next day two uber cachers could not find and e-mail the owner and said " found where cache should have been " and logged it as a find. WHAT KINDA BULL IS THAT? by the way the cache was missing and the owner had to replace it.

The cache owner could certainly delete such "finds" if they did not meet the owner's standards for their cache. I've been offered the opportunity to log such "finds" but have declined graciously, as they do not meet my standards for logging a find.

 

Kudos to the cache owner in your example for replacing the cache. That's far more responsible than, say, turning a cache into a codeword cache after it turns up missing. :ph34r:

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fox-and-the-hound

+fox-and-the-hound

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I wouldn't think most people would bother. Everyone knows you can look up easy listings and fill up your finds quickly if that was your goal. We have a pretty low numbers total because we look for caches mostly involving hiking. This weekend alone we put in about 12-14 miles and only discovered a few caches and placed a few while enjoying being out there. Everyone has their own goals and you're only lying to yourself if you bothered to lie at all. Most of us, I imagine, just enjoy being out there! :ph34r:

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clearpath

+clearpath

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Do you think people lie about findings to pad their numbers?

Does a fat baby poop? Of course people lie in this game. I guess some people like the extra stress associated with lieing ... But honestly (I always laugh when people say this), not many people care or should care. It's a game where the only prize is the satisfaction you create for yourself.

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briansnat

+briansnat

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Do you think people lie about findings to pad their numbers?

Does a fat baby poop? Of course people lie in this game. I guess some people like the extra stress associated with lieing ... But honestly (I always laugh when people say this), not many people care or should care. It's a game where the only prize is the satisfaction you create for yourself.

 

See my earlier post in this thread where I detail why it can and does matter.

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Salvelinus

+Salvelinus

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It's a game where the only prize is the satisfaction you create for yourself.

 

I'm beginning to wonder about this. I've seen, not only an explosion of "kudos" threads in regional forums, but events held in honor of high number finders, events held in honor of high finders in general, and nice prizes given for high numbers of finds. To each their own I guess, since none of that is my style.

 

But maybe some are actually striving for this? Why else would you log an event 9 times to get credit for all 9 of the temporary caches someone hid for the event. :ph34r:

 

Salvelinus

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briansnat

+briansnat

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But maybe some are actually striving for this? Why else would you log an event 9 times to get credit for all 9 of the temporary caches someone hid for the event.

 

I recall an event not long ago with 60 some attendees and there were about half a dozen temp caches placed for the event. Only one person out of 60 logged multiple finds on the event to get credit for the temp caches. He also just happened to have the most "finds" of anybody there.

 

Anyway that practice, albeit cheezy, doesn't bother me nearly as much as lying about finding a cache. The former really doesn't affect anyone (other than the reputation of the numbers padder), the latter can.

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[RR]Macavity

[RR]Macavity

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For some people, it's a numbers game. For others, we could care less about the numbers and would rather just have fun.

 

Here's how I work:

 

If I go looking for a cache and find it, I log it as such.

If I don't find it, again, I log it as such.

If I return to a DNF site and find it, I post a new log saying I found it - sometimes with commentary on the camouflaging (e.g., "Nice use of shadows - I was staring at it for a while before I realized it was there!").

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clearpath

+clearpath

Posted
Posted
Do you think people lie about findings to pad their numbers?

Does a fat baby poop? Of course people lie in this game. I guess some people like the extra stress associated with lieing ... But honestly (I always laugh when people say this), not many people care or should care. It's a game where the only prize is the satisfaction you create for yourself.

 

See my earlier post in this thread where I detail why it can and does matter.

 

Okay, I rescind my earlier statement ... lying can cause problems for game. I care that liars can affect honest geocachers. However, I do not care if fat babies poop as long as someone else cleans it up, preferably a lying, cheating geocacher. :ph34r:

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budd-rdc

+budd-rdc

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It's a game where the only prize is the satisfaction you create for yourself.

 

I'm beginning to wonder about this. I've seen, not only an explosion of "kudos" threads in regional forums, but events held in honor of high number finders, events held in honor of high finders in general, and nice prizes given for high numbers of finds. To each their own I guess, since none of that is my style.

 

But maybe some are actually striving for this? Why else would you log an event 9 times to get credit for all 9 of the temporary caches someone hid for the event. :ph34r:

 

Salvelinus

 

I've already stopped wondering. Geocaching, like any human endeavor, is going to have its compromising moments.

 

The impact of lying about the finds is very low to Geocaching in general, even though briansnat makes a very good point. Since the number of "cheaters" is allegedly very small, it's not too difficult to remember their names and not use what they say in the past logs to look for a cache.

 

One can argue that "lying" might be bad publicity when we try to promote Geocaching to newbies. From personal experience, muggles have asked me "how many caches are there?" but NOT "how many finds do you have?" so this shouldn't be a problem either.

 

However, if you feel that Geocaching is growing too fast, you can always tell the newbies "there are cheaters in this sport that make me want to quit" to drive them away. Either that, or the newbie goes out to look for a cache that's not there despite what the "lying cacher" said, so he will dismiss the sport and move on anyway.

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