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Tracking Someone Via Their Gps


lakedawgs

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They seem to be confusing your 60c with a system like Lo Jack that transmits a location derived from GPS. Your 60c, like mine, does not transmit any location information. There is some rf output, as there is with almost anything electronic, but it is not a signal in the normal sense of that word.

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Your work associate may be confused by the use of GPS receivers in many cell phones. GPS enabled cellular phones have the ability to send your GPS determined position out into the cellular network computers. In this instance, GPS can be used to determine your position.

 

Otherwise, the only way I know of to use GPS to track another GPS user is with a pair of the Garmin Rino units. They have the ability to advise other nearby Rino users of their position.

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The only GPS tracking systems are those like the one's used in the trucking industry. They get their position via GPS and then transmit their position via the cell phone system. Not cheap at all. Once you add a transmitter the power needs go up.

 

Consumer GPSs don't have this feature at this point. But since we're talking about it here someone is probably developing it now.

 

JDandDD

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Agree with the above;

 

1. No signal transmitted by a GPS, they are "receivers"

2. Truck units require a satellite or cell phone system to report locations

3. Yes you can do this with a HAM radio using APRS but it only works to other radios hooked to computers with the software to plot it.

 

Big question is; IF the government was tracking a GPS how would they know who had it? And the second question is; IF they were tracking all the GPS units wouldn't they be overwhelmed with tons of useless data?

 

However you might tell him that there IS a secret microphone in them and we have been listening to him bad mouth the government and have reported him, so he better watch out. :-)

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Well.. as i know.. GPS work with triangulation.. they receive the data.. but they also sends the signal and the satellite rebounds it to an anthena receptor and use it as a base for a better and precise point (sorry for my english.. is not my mothertongue)...

well.. yes your data can be tracked.. but think.. how many gps and points may be in your area (you need some code to know which gps it is.. and so you can fixc the points in your computer... used frecuently in GIS...) and so...

don't know if i made my idea clearly :laughing::anitongue:

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They seem to be confusing your 60c with a system like Lo Jack that transmits a location derived from GPS.

Just for the record, LoJack does not use GPS technology at all. That is a different type of automobile alarm system. It is a radio based system.

 

LoJack is a small two piece unit that is installed in a hidden void in your car. It has a specific unit identifier code, such as GZ001 for example. It is a radio transmitter/receiver. The way it works is, if your car is stolen, when the police file the report, the National Crime Information Computer (NCIC), which has a listing of all LoJack equipped vehicles, will see a match and send a message to the LoJack computer system.

 

The LoJack computer system then sends out, via radio waves in cities and areas served by LoJack, a coded signal to the affected LoJack unit. This activates the LoJack transmitter. The transmitter will send out a signal, which is heard as an audible beep and seen on a special LoJack receiver mounted in police vehicles. The signal starts out with one beep per second for the first 30 minutes after activation. It then slows down to one beep/signal per 30 seconds until an officer receives the signal and either inputs through his in-car data terminal or the dispatcher inputs the received code. This then speeds up the signal again to once a second to aid in tracking.

 

In the poice car the receiver unit displays the LoJack code on an alpha-numeric readout, and by using a circular LED display and an LED strength meter, shows the direction and approximate distance to the LoJack unit. As the police vehicle gets closer, the LoJack receiver changes the readout range to reflect closing on the target.

 

It is possible, using LoJack, to drive right up to the stolen vehicle, or in some cases, the chop shop where many stolen vehicles are being taken apart.

 

LoJack is actually a very simple system for police to use, and at least in New York City, is also installed on one of the police helicopter units.

 

The GPS based car alarms require that a dispatcher receive and properly transmit the data from the stolen car. Having had much experience with both systems, I can say that I preferred to depend on my own interpetation of a signal, rather than depend on someone sitting possibly thousands of miles away trying to play telephone tag with a dispatcher who was trying to get clear information.

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GPS work with triangulation.. they receive the data.. but they also sends the signal and the satellite rebounds it to an anthena receptor and use it as a base for a better and precise point

No, there is no deliberate signal transmitted from your GPS *receiver*. The receiver knows its own location by getting signals from multiple satellites that are at precisely known locations in their orbits. This allows the receiver to solve for the latitude, longitude, altitude, and precise time. But that information is not transmitted anywhere unless you deliberately add some type of transmitting equipment (cellular phone, Ham radio APRS, FRS as in the Rino models, etc.) that would take the calculated position and send it to a central location. Since most of our GPS receivers have no such transmitting equipment attached to them there's no way for anyone else to track our movements just because we're carrying a GPS.

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Well.. as i know.. GPS work with triangulation.. they receive the data.. but they also sends the signal and the satellite rebounds it to an anthena receptor and use it as a base for a better and precise point (sorry for my english.. is not my mothertongue)...

As two left feet said, your GPSr is a GPS receiver. They do not transmit signals at all. ONstar on GM uses GPS to locate your vehicle but the cell system is used to transmit that location from your car to the ONstar headquarters and only when you let it or the air bags are deployed. Truck/fleet tracking systems like Fugawi's use cellular for the transmission but can also use radio systems etc, but not satellite.

 

The GPS satellites simply send timing signals and their position that your GPS uses to find its position. Not really triangulation but the intersection of circles, too complicated for this note. They do not receive any signal from your GPSr.

 

To send a signal to a satellite orbiting at 10,900 nautical miles (which is the orbital altitude of GPS satellites) would require a lot of power, a very large parabolic transmission antenna (a few feet across) not to mention that the US military would have to allow you to transmit to them which of course they don't. So no you can't transmit to them or anything else with your GPSr so you can't be tracked.

 

JDandDD

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Talking to someone at work they said, You can be tracked if you are using your GPS.

As everyone else has said, bogus. There are a couple of things that might have led to this. First of all I was reading a Tom Clancy Op-Center book that suggested the GPS system could track it's users. That and other stupid mistakes caused me to discover the Tom Clancy doesn't write the Op-Center series, he's just the concept author. Apparently it's some other hack who I don't think knows anything about technology is writing it. Apparently the Op-Center is controlled by Tom's Ex-wife and Tom has nothing to do with it anymore. [/rant] Anyway, the point is it ended up in a "Tom Clancy" book so it must be true, right? :lol:

 

The second point is that if someone got ahold of your GPS and you didn't clear the track, they would know where you've been. The fact the tracking isn't real-time is one of those details that get lost in the re-telling of stories.

 

Last, as all the others pointed out, there IS a way of tracking if you connect the GPS to a transmitter. Most news articles just talk about "GPS Tracking" re-iterating how it uses satellite and all that canned yada-yada with little to no mention about how the GPS data gets back to the person doing the tracking (two-way radio? How dull.), so it just feeds the misconception.

 

As for your friend, since it's hard to prove a negative, ask him to prove to you he's correct. He can try go to Wikipedia and see if he can find it. Or you might just make it easy on yourself and tell him you can only be tracked if a black helicopter is within a mile of you. :lol:

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By itself, no - you cannot be tracked in real time simply by using your GPSr. You CAN hook the GPSr up to a radio system called A.P.R.S. (Automatic Position Reporting System) and THEN someone can track you.

 

Someone could also be sneaky and hook up a GPSr to your car (strategically placing an external antenna in a less than obvious position) and later retrieve the unit and find out where you've been... :lol:

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I did it once. My little brother asked to use my car. He sounded suspicous and wouldn't tell me exactly where he was going. I had my GPS on and hidden it in the car with my external atteana attached. When he got home I simply looked at the tracks and could tell right where he had been. I really do trust him. It was more for fun and to see if I could do it.

 

^^ike

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They seem to be confusing your 60c with a system like Lo Jack that transmits a location derived from GPS.

Just for the record, LoJack does not use GPS technology at all. That is a different type of automobile alarm system. It is a radio based system.

 

Like I alway say, you learn something new every day. Thanks for the tutorial. I thought it was a GPS based system, but I never really knew.

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I should add, it is possible in some situations to track a receiver. Most receiver designs use a local oscillator that if not well shielded can be received. This was done in WWII to help wipe out the German U-Boats as well as used today in the VG-2 radar detector detector. But trying to locate a specific "transmitter" from a overhead satellite is going to be a really good trick. And since "they" have no easy means of knowing who owns a particular GPS, that not going to be a very cost effective means of tracking if it's possible at all.

 

Not when you compare it to the cell phone. Ever wonder why your cell phone's standby time is measured in hours when a pager from the '80s would last a whole month on a AAA battery? It's because a cell phone transmits, even when not in a call. And the transmitted information includes it's phone number and electronic serial number (ESN). Add to that the government's mandate for E911 to allow emergency operators to know where you are, and you've got a known tracking system up and running. A far better way to track someone.

 

So forget about the GPS, worry about the phone.

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I should add, it is possible in some situations to track a receiver.  Most receiver designs use a local oscillator that if not well shielded can be received.  This was done in WWII to help wipe out the German U-Boats as well as used today in the VG-2 radar detector detector.  But trying to locate a specific "transmitter" from a overhead satellite is going to be a really good trick.  And since "they" have no easy means of knowing who owns a particular GPS, that not going to be a very cost effective means of tracking if it's possible at all.

 

Not when you compare it to the cell phone.  Ever wonder why your cell phone's standby time is measured in hours when a pager from the '80s would last a whole month on a AAA battery?  It's because a cell phone transmits, even when not in a call.  And the transmitted information includes it's phone number and electronic serial number (ESN).  Add to that the government's mandate for E911 to allow emergency operators to know where you are, and you've got a known tracking system up and running.  A far better way to track someone.

 

So forget about the GPS, worry about the phone.

However the local oscillator in older equipment radiated a lot more than low power solid state systems of today and the range would be very limited. Additionally when you have many devices on at the same time trying to pick one out would be like trying to pick out a single voice in a loud party from 100' away.

 

Cell phones do transmit when not in a call and do it more when they are not in range of a tower. They try to "phone home" by sending out a beacon to find an available tower. If you want to run your battery down quickly just leave your phone turned on when it shows zero bars on the display.

 

Also agree on the phone being able to be tracked. They do know where you are and who you are anytime your phone is on. The accuracy is not as good as GPS because the system has to triangulate from multiple points to get your location and the antennas are only directional to within about 30 degrees. So they could locate you to within about a city block but not 20 feet. This system is not fully implemented yet so most towers do not have the equipment installed. So right now they just know what tower you are on and could find out what direction you are from it but that is all.

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I agree with you absolutely.

I would like to find some documentation for this to shut up my left wing nut friend.

Lakedawgs

Here's the spec. Ask him to find anywhere it defines what the user segment transmits (hint: it doesn't). It would be difficult for a hundred different manufacturers to be transmitting this information without a spec. Or is it a ginormous international conspiracy they're all in on?

 

On the other hand, if you have a cell phone with A(ssisted)GPS and you turn it on, your provider knows where you are.

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On the other hand, if you have a cell phone with A(ssisted)GPS and you turn it on, your provider knows where you are.

 

As long as the phone is on, regardless of the kind of phone - AGPS or whatever, the provider has a fair idea of where you are. Not GPS accuracy, but an idea. Probably good enough to make or break an alibi.

 

Note that not all providers went with GPS. Some went with smarter towers to do more accurate triangulation.

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Can you imagine if they could track you down because of your GPS.  That means that every army unit or equipment using GPS (tanks, plans etc.) could be fired upon just by beeing traked by the ennemy who would know their exact location???

Thats it!, thats what I will mention to him on Monday, that should clear things up. If he still persists I will tell him to crawl back under his rock!

Thanks much for the informative information.

Lakedawgs

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Can you imagine if they could track you down because of your GPS.  That means that every army unit or equipment using GPS (tanks, plans etc.) could be fired upon just by beeing traked by the ennemy who would know their exact location???

Thats it!, thats what I will mention to him on Monday, that should clear things up. If he still persists I will tell him to crawl back under his rock!

Thanks much for the informative information.

Lakedawgs

Duh! Only the US military can track them. That's why they don't mind if the enemy is buying commercial GPSr's. <_<

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A lot of law enforcement officers really wish that LoJak used GPS... the "listen to the beeps" system employed at present is a real pain to use, and is expensive, so only a small number of patrol vehicles are equipped to track it...

It would be so much nicer if the beacon unit simply "phoned home" with its coordinates, like the truck tracking systems, once activated. That information could then be displayed on the big map in the local dispatch center, or on the MDT in the patrol units.

Edited by IanP
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Heres the dilly yo!In japan there is a cellular carrier whom produces cell phones where you can click on a name on your phone book and find that persons location on a map ,With there permission of course . Then there is vehicle tracking .there are many sites that will sell the software and the transmitters for a fair price .Type in "asset tracking" . This month or the next Walmart of all places with be selling a new cell phone kidtrack or somethign like that . You can find where the kids is assuming he has the phone by looking at a map online for a simple fee of $20 a month and the kids will have 200 minutes . So if you really wanna track you girlfried throw one of these in the back seat of her car. Wait maybe you really dont want to know where shes going !!! Jimbo

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Hell, I'd be happy if I could be tracked with my GPS in certain situations. That could be a real boon to campers and hikers if used properly... especially if you could turn it off and on. It seems like there's a few people frozen into the sides of mountains that would love it if their GPS could be tracked.

JDandDD Jan 19 2006, 01:27 PM Post #9

 

Premium Member

 

 

Posts: 394

Joined: 6-September 03

 

 

The only GPS tracking systems are those like the one's used in the trucking industry. They get their position via GPS and then transmit their position via the cell phone system. Not cheap at all. Once you add a transmitter the power needs go up.

 

Consumer GPSs don't have this feature at this point. But since we're talking about it here someone is probably developing it now.

 

JDandDD

 

--------------------

 

If caching be the food of love, cache on!

 

Two words.

 

Garmin Rhino.

 

It is a simple manual GMRS frequency push technology and not a fulltime push technology. To tack on the transmit technology that is current with Avalanche and Marine rescue beacon transmitters would only add about $300-$500 to existing high-end GPS devices. It's still inexpensive when you consider the alternatives.

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Law enforcement uses gps tracking devices to track felons. Aside from that, There is a paronoid girl in one of my classes that claims this very idea. I tried to tell her that it is not true, but she didn't care. Her loss. Left wing nuts! :P

Edited by Dwoodford
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If you really want to be concerned about "Big Brother" then consider the passive transmitters that are so small they can be installed into paper money. I have heard that they are already in all the Euros and supposedly will be in all US bills by 2010. They are also in a large number of cosumer products already, such as clothing and tires, but will be in everything you buy down to individual cigarettes eventually. Very useful for the police when they find a cigarette butt near the scene of the crime since they can track who bought it from the store records.

 

They are supposed to be inert until they get within about ten feet of a reciever that powers them up and causes them to transmit a number back to the reciever. The recievers are small and can be placed in doorways or on ramps to the freeway. Think about getting on the freeway and your new Firestones get picked up on the on ramp and then again on the off ramp and then getting a ticket in the mail a couple of weeks later because the time it took from the two ramps wasn't long enough to get there driving the speed limit, or you go to a concert and as you walk through the door there is a record of everything from what's in your purse to what kind of underwear you have on. Good from a security standpoint, not so good from a privacy point of view.

 

Of course none of this is needed since they call track us all by the transmitters they installed in us with our child immunizations. Remember the "polio" shots we got as kids that left a big mark on your arm? I hear they funded it with the money they supposedly spent sending man to the moon, which never actually happened of course. :(

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You all do realize when you turn "off" your cell phone, that is just a digital command, that can easily be reversed by your carrier. Cell phone firmware is updated by your carrier, without you even knowing it. You think your cell phone is really off? Maybe not..... And by the way, easy enough for the new firmware to enable the microphone as well. Pop off the battery if you want to REALLY be sure.... And as for satellite phones, well never mind...

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Of course none of this is needed since they call track us all by the transmitters they installed in us with our child immunizations. Remember the "polio" shots we got as kids that left a big mark on your arm? I hear they funded it with the money they supposedly spent sending man to the moon, which never actually happened of course. :D

 

That was smallpox.

 

:) Just because you aren't paranoid doesn't mean they aren't watching you. :D

Edited by What rock?
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If you really want to be concerned about "Big Brother" then consider the passive transmitters that are so small they can be installed into paper money. I have heard that they are already in all the Euros and supposedly will be in all US bills by 2010. They are also in a large number of cosumer products already, such as clothing and tires, but will be in everything you buy down to individual cigarettes eventually. Very useful for the police when they find a cigarette butt near the scene of the crime since they can track who bought it from the store records.

 

These are called RFIDs and they are actually in use. Do a search. :)

 

RFID Article

 

RFIDs, the Darker Side

 

Although the potential boon to retailers and industry is great, there are some potential downsides for the consumer. Although it might be desirable to lessen the effort for daily transactions (such as grocery or clothing purposes), there are some privacy issues that have not really been addressed by the RFID industry.

 

That does not mean that privacy is not a concern for the industry, it certainly is. But as with most consumer-oriented technologies that mix purchasing data and personal information, there are still some unanswered questions that should always be on the mind of consumers as developers continue to implement RFIDs.

 

Identity Issues

One of the most important identity issues concerns consumer identity. Just as your identity is linked to a credit card, your identity is linked to a SmartCard containing RFIDs. The difference is that your credit card uses a magnetic technology that requires you to hand your card over to the clerk to be swiped. It is a fine point of distinction, but an important one.

 

When you use a credit card for a transaction, both the retailer and the credit card company have a unique way of identifying you with your purchases, which allows them to generate a very vivid profile of your buying habits and your lifestyle. However, you're also consenting to give them that information. It's part of your agreement with the credit card company when you sign up for the card. And you control when and who you give that information to through your choice to use the credit card to pay for your purchases.

 

With RFID technology, that choice isn't as clear. There are many RFID scanners that can read any number of different RFIDs. And you don't have to do anything to "give up" your information, other than pass within their range. A scanner set up at the doorway to a shop could scan you when you entered—without your consent and without you taking any action to provide the card to the merchant.

 

There are some mechanisms that are being considered to stop this kind of invasive information-gathering. One way is to have the ID encrypted and linked to you—like a public key, but without giving up any explicit information. To get actual personal information, the merchant would be required to negotiate for that information from the owner of the database with your account info (that is, the credit card company). That would certainly allow RFIDs to obtain near-parity with credit cards. Although,there is still the issue of knowledge—you still might not know that the information was being gathered.

 

Additionally, most credit card companies already keep detailed information about your purchasing habits and sell that information to retailers to target you for goods and services. The amount of money you spend each month, as well as details about what you spend it on, is very valuable to businesses that want you to buy more from them. It's a tradeoff for the consumer. You give up some of your privacy to get better deals and coupons for things you wanted to buy, anyway. But now detailed information about your lifestyle can be obtained by anyone who wants to purchase it. Some would argue that this is the price of convenience, whereas others would argue that it's a Faustian bargain. Either way, it's definitely something to ponder when it comes to RFIDs.

 

Security Concerns

Going hand-in-hand with privacy concerns are security concerns. As more detailed profiles are kept on you and your habits, the person with access to that information gains more insight into your life. And with that insight comes the potential for bad things. It makes identity theft easier. It makes governmental abuses of power easier. It makes it easier for you to be interrupted at dinner by phone calls from solicitors.

 

There are always debates about the security of the databases that credit card companies, banks, and credit bureaus keep about individuals. These debates won't go away with RFIDs; they'll just get more heated because RFIDs allow even more details about your purchases and habits to be gathered.

 

If all this sounds a bit "Big Brother" and Orwellian, it's not without reason. Consider that RFIDs are being proposed for currency in some countries, which would allow law enforcement agencies to track cash transactions. RFID technologies in automobiles could be used to track movements (Michelin has tested RFID technology embedded in tires).

 

Imagine a world in which your tires were recorded at certain spots in the road, and then a speeding ticket was mailed to you automatically by cross-checking the tire's RFID to the VIN for your car in a database. It sounds like overkill, but it is entirely possible given the technology.

 

Another recent example involves an elementary school in which students were given RFID-based ID cards. The cards were used to track students in the classroom and restrooms, and teachers were given scanners to use to scan student IDs as well. After concerned parents contacted the school in protest, most of the scanners were deactivated, and the students were given the option of opting out of the program. Continued pressure from parents and the ACLU led the company that was conducting the test to withdraw from the school.

 

The merits of IDs for students (such as attendance and safety) aside, the school example shows just how powerful and easy it can be to implement systems using RFIDs for identification, to track movement throughout a building, or for any number of other uses.

 

Unable to Remove

Many of these concerns stem from the fact that RFIDs are embedded, hard to find, and difficult to remove. Especially as the technology gets smaller and smaller, it could be virtually impossible for you to know that an RFID tag were installed in that sweater you just purchased. And because most RFID tags are not powered, there's an indefinite lifespan on the tag.

 

You could be walking around with a purse or briefcase full of RFID tags for years. All the while, these tags would be broadcasting information about the contents of your bags every time you passed a scanner.

 

There are some ways to circumvent this privacy invasion, however. Because they are Radio Frequency devices, you can destroy an RFID with a few seconds in a microwave. Not the most elegant solution, but it does the trick.

 

There are also "blocker" tags, which can be employed to essentially scramble the signal for the RFID scanners. These blocker tags work by sending out their own RFID signals on all the commonly used frequencies, essentially jamming the reader's ability to read any other RFID tags in the proximity of the blocker tag.

 

Technologies such as blocker tags and disabling the RFID tags in items on your person may be a few ways to combat potential privacy invasions that may arise with RFIDs. But like any new technology, there will always be a need for some give-and-take between legitimate uses that benefit consumers and potential abuses.

 

 

So, when u get home from the store, stick ure bags in the microwave!

Edited by Crusso
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I agree with you absolutely.

I would like to find some documentation for this to shut up my left wing nut friend.

Lakedawgs

 

You might try asking the nutcase to show where HIS info is documented or did he figure it out all by his little self. Don't worry about it. Nutcases, like cockroaches will survive a nuclear holocaust, God forbid. :):D:D

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