niskibum

Thank you for the generous gift. It is a very nice gesture.

I don't want for you to tell me I'm right Dieseldan, what I want is to warn people about a potentially dangerous situation, one that could cost them their lives. I get the feeling that many people think these sprays are complete protection, and that is a dangerous attitude. Here is another website with examples of actual encounters and the effectivness of sprays. Here is another. The sprays can be effective, but they aren't every time. Don't you think it's a good idea to know all the pros and cons and potential problems before you trust your life with a product? Your argument that you can't find any proof on the web of bears being attracted to the smell of a used spray can reminds me of when I used to install residential phone lines for the phone company. People would tell me that their dog had never bitten anybody before, and I would reply that I had no intention of being the first one, so you either put your dog away or you don't get your phone today. Do you want someone here to risk being the first one for the small price of a new can? Sorry if you think we are beating a dead horse here TotemLake, but of all the dead horses around this one seems the most worthy. I at least hope some people here reconsider how safe that little can actually makes them and they stay smart when they are in bear country. A false sense of security can be worse than no security at all.

And I have seen bears and other predators that have not turned and ran when shots have been placed near them, though most have. Again, you and I have had different experiences. So what happens if it doesn't turn at a distance? You still might have to face the close encounter, though probably not, since most of the time, even by your words, they will run. At least you get to try to turn them before facing them up close and personal if you have spotted them in time, something you will never get to even try with just a can of spray.

Dieseldan, try reading here for evidence of spray attracting bears. Go down to the "Grizzly-human relations" section. A bears primary food detecting sense is smell, and anything that smells will attract them. It's probably good to remember that just because you haven't heard of something doesn't mean it isn't true. A simple web search will turn up lots of evidence of spray attracting bears. Far safer to assume it isn't myth and just get rid of the can after use, and never spray it on your tent, sleeping bad, etc. as a deterent. As a hunter, I know that the idea that black bears don't shy away from the sound of gunshots is just ridiculous. At a distance there is nothing as effective as a gun, and a distance is where I prefer to keep bears. That's the one major downfall to sprays, they are totally useless at a distance. You have to be up close and personal to even use them. I have personally seen bears turned at a distance with shots placed beneath them, and have seen the same on Grizzlys on videos, without ever harming the bear or placing the person in danger. Moose are totally different, and are the thing I worry about most in the woods. I have placed shots into trees ten feet from moose, and they just stand there and look at you. If you are charged by one I wouldn't bother trying to shoot it with anything, best to drop everything and find a tree to climb pronto. No myth about it, moose can't climb trees! A friend of mine saved his life that way once.

As the years go by I wonder how many times this topic will be discussed on this forum, and I doubt that those opposed to carrying guns will convince those who carry not to, and visa versa. Luckily we live in a country that allows each of us to choose the method they are comfortable with. One thing about bear spray, if you ever use it, get rid of it right away. It has been known to be an attractant to bears after it has been used. After you scare Yogi away don't stick it in your tent with you. I guess you could carry a couple of cans with you. I prefer to carry more rounds for the gun. The best defense against bears is to go hiking with someone that wears big heavy boots, while you are wearing tennis shoes. Try to spray his boots with pepper spray as you pass him for maximum effect.

If you really want to be concerned about "Big Brother" then consider the passive transmitters that are so small they can be installed into paper money. I have heard that they are already in all the Euros and supposedly will be in all US bills by 2010. They are also in a large number of cosumer products already, such as clothing and tires, but will be in everything you buy down to individual cigarettes eventually. Very useful for the police when they find a cigarette butt near the scene of the crime since they can track who bought it from the store records. They are supposed to be inert until they get within about ten feet of a reciever that powers them up and causes them to transmit a number back to the reciever. The recievers are small and can be placed in doorways or on ramps to the freeway. Think about getting on the freeway and your new Firestones get picked up on the on ramp and then again on the off ramp and then getting a ticket in the mail a couple of weeks later because the time it took from the two ramps wasn't long enough to get there driving the speed limit, or you go to a concert and as you walk through the door there is a record of everything from what's in your purse to what kind of underwear you have on. Good from a security standpoint, not so good from a privacy point of view. Of course none of this is needed since they call track us all by the transmitters they installed in us with our child immunizations. Remember the "polio" shots we got as kids that left a big mark on your arm? I hear they funded it with the money they supposedly spent sending man to the moon, which never actually happened of course.

If you are around this weekend come to the Cache Bash and meet some of the locals.

I finally got it submitted today, just waiting for approval. If your in the North Idaho area around Aug 13th stop by and have some fun. I'll add a link when it's approved.

The funnest part of ridiculing Magellan users is finding one that it really bothers, and then really hammering them! I usually stop when they start to cry though....well, usually. It really is a case of Chevy vs Ford, or more recently everyone vs Dodge, but to be honest, if GM was a French company I'd be driving a Ford right now.

Looks like they are made by Midland.

For those that want to know. Top left, Idaho state seal. Top right, Idaho state tree (white pine). Bottom left, Idaho state bird (Mountain Blue Bird). Bottom right, IGO symbol(Idaho Geocachers Org). It's nice to see so many people like the coin. Amazing that so many people could come to an agreement on the final design and have it turn out so well. Can't wait to get mine in a couple of days.

I would like to express my regret for the manner in which I posted in the "Got Coin" thread earlier this week. After a couple of good nights of sleep, the first in a couple of weeks, I am feeling much less agitated. I still have some objections to some of the methods I refered to, but I should have found a more tactful way to voice my opinions. For that I offer my sincere apology. I would also like to apologize to Moun10Bike for stirring up bad feelings about an otherwise excellent cache idea. I hope to find it one of these days.

OK, I'm sorry if I went over the edge a bit. But let me make a point about Saturday. I also went along with everyone on that cache hunt. I went right to the site, saw the cache, even looked at the contents(which were by far the most interesting I've seen so far), but because I was not qualified(for other reasons) to "find" it I did not trade, or sign the log, nor will I log it on line. This is because I have a strong sense of fair play, and what is right and wrong. Someday I may go back and do it, but I will do it the right way. This is a game, but without rules and fair play games are pointless and less fun. Now even though I didn't log it, I still had all the fun, enjoyed all the company, saw all the sights. What did I miss out on that day? A smiley face? A number? I would rather earn them. I apologize for starting a controversy, but I still have to ask why, if you haven't met the requirements clearly stated on a cache page(any cache), would you log a find and not a note, expressing your gratitude for the cache while maintaining it's integrity(and yours)? What about when you find a coin for real? The enjoyment of being able to really log it is gone now. If someone came up to me and wanted to give me the clues for a cache like this I would tell them no thanks. I'll be happy to go with you on the hike/ride/whatever, but let me have the fun of figuring out the puzzle, finding the clues etc. I just don't understand not wanting to do it the right way. Finding a coin was supposed to be part of the challenge of finding "Got Coin". I know some of you are mad at me now, but know this, I will never ever knowingly give out any clues, or help others to cheat on any of your caches. I respect all the hard work everyone does on the difficult ones, and think it's wrong to just give the answers away. I'm sorry if you don't agree. I would much rather be known as someone that stands by his principles than one who is buddies with everyone here. Regarding the coins in my possesion. I actually have two, one of each, and the third is being searched for. I hope to someday find it if I can ever locate the guy that bought my dad's Cadillac (long story), and move it along just like the several other ones that have passed through my hands.

I didn't have to ask Jon, he said it in the first sentence on the cache page before this event, as I said in my first post. How would you feel if you spent a lot of time coming up with a puzzle cache that was really difficult and then had someone at the next event passing out flyers that showed the solution? I bet you wouldn't be too happy. Think about all the time, effort, and money Jon spent setting this cache up. He went to the trouble of putting that little code on his new coins (something that can't be changed), setting up the cache page that clearly states the requirements, only to have someone go around giving the code out to anyone that wants it (not earns it). Why not just post a thread here with the code in big bold letters? I looked at the cache page and see that everyone was fine with claiming a find on it without having done the work (and yes, finding a coin is hard work). I'm sorry if you aren't up to that work, but face it, not everyone her is qualified to find every cache. There are scuba caches around here that I will never find simply because I'm not will to do what it takes. I accept that fact, and don't go pay some diver to find them for me. At the very least I would think these people would have the scruples to just post a note, but I guess not everyone here has a conscience. Pathetic. I agree that geocaching is meant to be fun, but do you really have to negate someones time, effort, and expense to do it? Go find a cache that everyone is qualified for, stop ruining it for those of us that want to play by the rules. This cache had a meaning, now it's just another ammo box in the woods.

No, I haven't been monitoring this thread, but do you really think that all these people didn't have a twinge of guilt that what they were doing wasn't right? It shouldn't have had to been pointed out to them.

Nothing hurts like the truth. Perhaps someone in the group should have thought about it before the event instead of having it pointed out to them. Although I find it hard to believe that it never crossed anyone else's mind, rather than it crossed their mind but they wanted to find the cache so bad that they just never said anything. Plain and simple, this was cheating.

A pleasant walk or ride through the Marckworth State Forest to a cache specially placed for finders of a version 2 Moun10Bike Geocoin. Straight from the cache page. This makes me sad, as the whole idea of this cache is now pointless. I found a version II coin in a cache and looked forward to finding this with a fellow coin finder, but now the trip is meaningless since all the non coin finders just get the code from someone else. Same exact thing as giving away the answer to a puzzle cache. Did anyone ask M10B's true feelings about non coin finders getting the code for this cache, or did you just take advantage of Jon's friendly nature? Maybe at the next event we can just share all the answers for all of your puzzle caches. Please don't include any of mine. Shame.

Now that I took a closer look I think GEM's does have them all.

It's hard to tell with the reflection, but do any of those collections contain all the M10B coins? I just might have to break out my camera.

That's cool, Fishpoet is a cacher from a town just east of LA. I brought one of his tokens back with me last year and dropped it in a cache up near CDA. I wonder if it's the same one. Post a pic of it if you get a chance, so I can see if it's the same kind. He has a few different designs.

Cabela's has 4 .50 cal for 19.95 or one for 5.95. Something to remember if you order anything else from there. The army surplus store in my area has bumped the price up a couple of bucks, so I'm looking for alternate sources now.

I'd be happy either way, still a great deal.

Oh yea, almost forgot, he sent me a coupon for $10 off my next Target purchase. I'd almost feel guilty using it if I actually get a C in the end......almost.

That was me that mentioned the 169 price wasn't too bad, but that is after shipping, tax, and includes a garmin case and instructional video as well. I received my package today, and as we all suspected, it was a regular legend bonus package. I got on the phone and called the 800 line. I had a nice conversation with a guy, and told him that I had ordered the C package and received the regular legend. He looked at my order and said no problem, he would ship a replacement (due date Dec. 22, but should be here earlier according to him) and that I should print out a shipping label from the Target website to return the other one. So now I just drop off the other one at the mailbox and start the waiting game again. Still some hope, just gotta play the game.