Where Did It Go?

September 4, 2005

This morning I went out of town so I looked up the zip code and did three caches while I was there! When I got home to post my finds, the cache is no longer listed! It's not archived or temporarily disabled. It's just not here! In zip code 53574. New Glarus, Wisconsin.

Cachews Medal

N 42° 47.336 W 089° 37.826

Where did it go? I guess I can't log the find! If it's archived, how do I find it?

September 4, 2005

Did you happen to print the cache page? Or is it in your PDA?

Either way, you should have a "Waypoint" that starts with GC...

Go to the "Hide and Seek a Cache" section, enter the waypoint in the appropriate spot, and the cache page will come up (even if it's archived).

Alternatively, if you know another cacher that has found that cache, check the list of caches that they found and access it from there.

9.2k · September 4, 2005

The cache was archived last month, when the owner gave this explanation:

Archiving my remaining caches due to lack of will to maintain them.

Two observations:

Archiving your cache carries with it the responsibility to go out and retrieve the container. This cache owner is a litterbug. Now the community needs to clean up after him.

Finders should always use fresh data. Had the cache been removed as it should have been, you would have had a frustrating DNF at this site.

9.4k · September 4, 2005

Wow 115 caches and they're probably all still there. If that's the case it is extremely irresponsible

September 4, 2005

Sounds like the owner has got a bad case of LAZYNESS! If I were you I would ask to adopt the caches.

1.6k · September 4, 2005

Sounds like the owner has got a bad case of LAZYNESS! If I were you I would ask to adopt the caches.

Would you be able to handle 115 caches? It's very difficult to do.

9.4k · September 4, 2005

Wouldn't you have figured that out by, say, the 20th cache?

September 4, 2005

[cough]

1.1k · September 4, 2005

Were they GEOcaches...or were they TERRAcaches?

24.7k · September 4, 2005

[cough]

Good find.

9.4k · September 4, 2005

[cough]

Good to hear. It would have been good to copy and paste a short summary in the archive log, however. But I'm glad that the (former) geocacher is doing the right thing.

September 4, 2005

The cache was archived last month, when the owner gave this explanation:

Archiving my remaining caches due to lack of will to maintain them.

dadgum, the guy archived 115 caches. How very sad

September 4, 2005

[cough]

Good to hear. It would have been good to copy and paste a short summary in the archive log, however. But I'm glad that the (former) geocacher is doing the right thing.

Excuse me? "Doing the right thing"?

He's going to leave a hundred hunks of litter out there and will pick it up when he gets around to it. Meanwhile, he doesn't want anyone else to touch them (AKA: clean up the mess).

3.8k · September 4, 2005

Excuse me? "Doing the right thing"?
He's going to leave a hundred hunks of litter out there and will pick it up when he gets around to it. Meanwhile, he doesn't want anyone else to touch them (AKA: clean up the mess).

While he's no hero for waiting a few months, the fact that he intends on doing so at all is the right thing (or at least as much as we're going to get). I don't know why he's got his undies in a wad over people picking them up for him, but whatever...

September 5, 2005

"Intentions" are not the right thing. Cleaning your geo-litter is the right thing. This guy is unquestionably wrong unless and until he backs his "intentions" with some actual action.

Reading some other threads in the Wisconsin forums, it seems that they have a decent relationship with their parks. I hope this fellow leaving 100 pieces of litter out there for an indeterminate amount a time doesn't change that. Maybe some of the guys in Wisconsin should be looking at this issue and see if honoring this guy's wishes is worth risking their park relationships.

September 5, 2005

OK everyone...I finally found it again! Thanks for all of your help. I went to a close cache and found someone who had already found it, then logged in. I wrote that I found it and I hope the person gets rid of it. It's a small container thats wet and falling apart. She deleted my find, and here's what she wrote...

Hi,

I archived Cachews Medal more then a week ago.

Perhaps closer to two weeks.

I requested that people not search for them and I will state that

whenever I decide to pick up my caches is my business, not yours.

I am deleting your log. You should check cache status before hunting

them.

Wzbt03

I have reported this person for leaving 100+ caches laying around the state! I won't write in here what my response was to her!!! LOL

September 5, 2005

Wow, how rude. If the caches remain, allow people their finds. If you can no longer maintain them, adopt them out or pick them up! Pretty simple if you ask me.

The majority of cachers are kind, responsible people. do not let this turn you off to caching! :huh:

September 5, 2005

I'd say rude, too.

I have a found a couple after they have been archived, One the beginning of this summer. But as far as I know, the geo-litter still has not been retrieved, either. But at least my find was not deleted, though.

7.3k · September 5, 2005

Found it! = DNF now there's a switch. I can see deleting found logs from Locationless and Virtuals, which have always depended on the owner's willingness to receive and examine emails - but if a cache is physically in place, you found it. Deleting your log is just revisionist history; a sort of removing the inconvenient reality of the geo-litter from the owner's cache page, but not from the real world. Your smiley may be gone, but your find remains.

I see the owner has had a change of heart and your found it log is there - good. A bit of feed back form the community may have opened them up to a different perspective

Edited September 5, 2005 by Isonzo Karst

September 6, 2005

My found is back because I posted it as found again! She just hasn't redeleted it yet.

1.7k · September 6, 2005

I find it odd that this cache owner doesn't want to physically maintain their caches anymore, yet was quite the bulldog when deleting Erika's online log. What I don't understand is why this person has decided to archive all their caches while they still remain out. What is this achieving? Why not just archive them once they're actually out of play and no longer in the field? And since these caches are archived, their hiding places and the surrounding 0.1mi is now open for the placement of new caches. The possibility now exists for two cache containers to be near each other and cause confusion. I hope the reviewer for WI is on top of things.

24.7k · September 6, 2005

It took me some time to place my caches and should I decide to pull the plug it would take me some time to pick them up. Just like the cacher in question I would get to it in my own time and I would not want anyone else doing it for me unless they asked first and got the go ahead.

As for logging archived caches, you have to remember you should not be seeking them to begin with. I had a property owner royally chew my butt on a cache that had been archived just because I didn't have current information. Even if I had found it, I sure as heck didn't deserve a find on it.

General practice is that if you happen to find an archived cache you can log it. The owners concent is assumed. In this case it's known they don't wont you looking for their archived caches. They are within their rights to delete logs. Maybe it's petty, or maybe one cache had an irate land manager who was the final straw. You just don't know. It's easy enough to let them collect their caches in due time, and let sleeping dogs lie.

September 6, 2005

I don't get it. What's the point of archiving 115 caches all at once and then picking them (eventually) over a period of six months?

If you can retrieve five caches this weekend, then archive those five and pick them up. If you can get ten more next weekend, archive those and pick them up. Why archive something that's still there and will continue to be there for six more months? It's not like letting someone find your cache makes more work for you . . . . :lol:

September 6, 2005

I wasn't going to wade into this, but since I kind of know the cache hider (met him once, exchanged some emails) and have even met the OP, I'll try to offer a little insight.

wzbt03 (who, BTW, is a man) archived a handful of caches last winter. When he went out to retrieve them, he found that many of them had been picked up without his knowledge or permission - which irritated him greatly. That's why he's asked people to leave them. He will get to them and he wants to know that they will be there.

As to the rest of it.....well, I think wzbt would agree with RK.

Personally, I will remain neutral.

September 6, 2005

wzbt03 archived a handful of caches last winter. When he went out to retrieve them, he found that many of them had been picked up without his knowledge or permission - which irritated him greatly. That's why he's asked people to leave them. He will get to them and he wants to know that they will be there.

If that person spent as much time picking up their garbage as they do pissing people off, there would be no problem. The person who placed the caches is quite irresponsible, and based the email, is quite the jerk.

If you don't want people picking up your caches, get off your butt and do it yourself then! And if you don't get out and do it, don't get pissed because someone else did.

Why is he archiving them anyways, why not let people adopt them?

September 6, 2005

Like LightningBugs, I was going to stay out of this, but what the heck...

I too agree w/ RK about when to pick up the caches. It's no one else's business! If people weren't out there searching for caches that have been archived, they wouldn't know the containers were still there! And if they came upon it accidentally, then they should sign the log and email the owner requesting permission to log. I know many cache owners who have allowed people to log archived caches that they have found. If the owner declines, then the finder needs to leave it at that instead of being a jerk about it!

As someone who has cached many of his hides, spent many hours seeking other hiders caches, and hosted events with him, I can tell you that he does know what he's doing! And not that he needs my help, he's quite capable of speaking for himself, but wzbt is a VERY responsible cacher! And as a hider, he was always willing to run out to one of his caches if someone let him know of a problem. If people would take the time to look at his posted archives, they would see that he DID NOT archive them all at once. He DID NOT leave all of the containers out there "littering" the woods (as some may have suggested), and he DID let others adopt many of the caches he was archiving. On more than on occasion he posted notes on the WGA site telling of his intention to archive. He told those interested in adopting the caches to email him. And upon his suggestion, several of his caches were adopted.

To go even further, when he stepped away from the WGA, he allowed someone to adopt his State Stats thread so that it would continue to show on the WGA forums.

So while I may be sad about the fact that I never made it to all 115 of his hides, and I miss our TB moments, I do agree that what he does is his business and not ours!

MB

SIDE NOTE:

So many times people read something on these threads and take them as gospel without reasearching the truth. So many times people are quick to jump in, and spout off at the mouth, not knowing the full story. So many times people make complete and total idiots out of themselves for no reason...all they would have had to do is read a little further, or go to a different page, and they could have remained quiet. And so many times, people get things "stirred up" on these threads, then walk away from the page because they were proven to be out of line. Only occasionally do they apologize for their ignorance! So on behalf of those people that know who they are but refuse to admit it, WZBT03...sorry! (oops...was that too harsh?)

Edited September 7, 2005 by CB&MB

September 6, 2005

First off, I never left. I came in here asking a simple question...what happened to the cache? I was showed where it was and I logged it. The problems started after that! I printed it up then it was gone. SIMPLE! It's still in the woods. It's still cracked. It's still wet.

September 6, 2005

In this case it's known they don't wont you looking for their archived caches. They are within their rights to delete logs. Maybe it's petty, or maybe one cache had an irate land manager who was the final straw. You just don't know. It's easy enough to let them collect their caches in due time, and let sleeping dogs lie.

Very well said RK, I agree 100%

...all they would have had to do is read a little further, or go to a different page, and they could have remained quiet.

I Completely agree with CB&MB. Of course, I had already been following this on the WI site, so I was educated on the subject. . . . .

twjolson & Kay

If that person spent as much time picking up their garbage as they do pissing people off,

Next time, maybe spend as much time researching something before spouting off . . . :laughing:

September 6, 2005

twjolson & Kay
If that person spent as much time picking up their garbage as they do pissing people off,

Next time, maybe spend as much time researching something before spouting off . . .

Nothing that has been said changes my statement, and I stand by it. If the caches are done and over, get off your butt and go get them (or have someone else get them). To leave them out there for when and if you ever get around to it is very irresponsible. They are archived, take a saturday and go pick them up, until then, this cacher is nothing more then a liter bug, no matter what he's done before or what amazing things he's done for the wisconsin geocachers, that doesn't change the simple fact that he is leaving caches out there in the wild as liter.

The guy is a literbug and he sounds like a major jerk.

Edited September 6, 2005 by twjolson & Kay

September 6, 2005

You are entitled to your own opinion.

The cacher made his point. Youve made yours

Nobody has to live their lives based on what other people think tho.

PS- your posts make you out to be a major Jerk too -

Edited September 6, 2005 by Pto

24.7k · September 6, 2005

I don't get it. What's the point of archiving 115 caches all at once and then picking them (eventually) over a period of six months?

If you can retrieve five caches this weekend, then archive those five and pick them up. If you can get ten more next weekend, archive those and pick them up. Why archive something that's still there and will continue to be there for six more months? It's not like letting someone find your cache makes more work for you . . . .

Shhh! That's the logical way to tackle the problem, and it would prevent the issue that Erica is having as well.

9.3k · September 6, 2005

There are always two sides to every story. So far we've read one side here, and heard from friends concerning the other side. I don't know wzbt from Adam, so I'll refrain from any opinion on his potential "jerkiness". (is that a word?) :laughing:

Everybody plays the game differently, and I realize that my opinion is just that; opinion, however, I feel it's a valid as any. IMHO, leaving a cache in the woods for more than a week after archiving is littering. I'm glad that he's going to pick them up eventually, but I know I'd never do it. Of course, since I only own 10 caches, it'd be a whole lot easier for me to retrieve mine than for wzbt to retrieve his.

5.6k · September 6, 2005

I want to ask what is the difference between a box sitting in the woods with an active listing on this site and a box sitting in the woods with an archived listing on this site? Why is one "litter" and not the other - it's still a box sitting in the woods? Or how about the flip side, while a cache is pending approval, isn't it litter because there is no active listing? As is stated other places, the cache is owned by the hider - just because they can't reclaim it by your schedule doesn't change that fact.

Another question: Would you rather have a listing on this site so you can hunt a cracked and wet cache because the owner doesn't have the time to get the box right now, or have the owner archive that listing so they don't have to listen to complaints about the condition of the cache?

1.7k · September 6, 2005

I want to ask what is the difference between a box sitting in the woods with an active listing on this site and a box sitting in the woods with an archived listing on this site? Why is one "litter" and not the other - it's still a box sitting in the woods? Or how about the flip side, while a cache is pending approval, isn't it litter because there is no active listing?

The difference between an approved or approval-pending box and an archived box is simple. The caches that are approved or awaiting approval are either in active use or will be actively used soon. An archived cache that is not picked up is potential litter because nobody has any intention of using it again, neither the cache owner or cachers.

1.7k · September 6, 2005

Another question: Would you rather have a listing on this site so you can hunt a cracked and wet cache because the owner doesn't have the time to get the box right now, or have the owner archive that listing so they don't have to listen to complaints about the condition of the cache?

It just occured to me. Why didn't wz-whatever just use the Temporarily Disable Listing button? In the disabling log, he could have said he will no longer be maintaining the cache, and will be archiving it soon, but people are welcome to visit and log their finds at their own risk. There was some generosity though in archiving the caches now so as to open up the areas to new caches. I mentioned possible confusion about new and old containers in proximity to each other, but I'd wager that's not likely.

9.3k · September 6, 2005

I want to ask what is the difference between a box sitting in the woods with an active listing on this site and a box sitting in the woods with an archived listing on this site?

Intent. Leaving a box in the woods for others to find serves a specific purpose. Leaving a box in the woods for 6 months without a specific purpose is littering. JMHO. :laughing:

September 6, 2005

I am curious why he has not called on his caching buddies to help with the clean up of the archived caches if he is unable to do it. It might make the job go faster and smoother.

Cachers who still print out pages may have them in their bags/cars for awhile. I am sure she did not intentionally go out to hunt an archived cache. Why would she?

September 6, 2005

I want to ask what is the difference between a box sitting in the woods with an active listing on this site and a box sitting in the woods with an archived listing on this site?

Intent. Leaving a box in the woods for others to find serves a specific purpose. Leaving a box in the woods for 6 months without a specific purpose is littering. JMHO.

Not to mention the fact that if he can't find the time now to pick them up, why should we believe that he will pick them up a month from now, or six months from now? If he can't find time to pick them up now (or round up friends to help him pick them up) why should we believe they will be picked up eventually. Alot of times in a situation like this, eventually never comes. If he's too busy with his new hobbies this week, he will be the next and the next and the next.

That is why I call it litter.

September 6, 2005

http://www.geocaching.com/seek/cache_detai...63-492ac90d5020 - My son and I found this cache after it was archived. We already had it in the waypoints in the GPS (I know, we went out with old data). We were in the area one day and went after it. When we went to log it we found that it was archived. We posted a find for it anyway. Later on the cache was unarchived. The owner thought that it had been destroyed in one of the three hurricanes that hit our county last year here in Florida. Had we not posted a find, it would still be out there with nobody looking for it.

7.2k · September 7, 2005

Please back the angst meter down a notch or two.

Please remember the forum guidelines:

Respect: Respect the guidelines for forum usage, and site usage. Respect Groundspeak, its employees, volunteers, yourself, fellow community members, and guests on these boards. Whether a community member has one post or 5,000 posts, they deserve the same respect.

September 7, 2005

Another question: Would you rather have a listing on this site so you can hunt a cracked and wet cache because the owner doesn't have the time to get the box right now, or have the owner archive that listing so they don't have to listen to complaints about the condition of the cache?

If it's still in the field, I'd absolutely rather have the cracked, wet cache listed on the site. That might be an advantage of using maps and aerial photos instead GPS for this hobby. Since every tract of land and its map is different, navigating to a wet cache can be just as much fun as navigating to a dry one. A dry cache is obviously preferred since a dry log is easier to sign, and it creates less angst among others, but it's no great loss if the container is less than perfect.

Of course, those who are beginning to find the navigation by countdown a bit boring but are still in this for the McToys might feel differently.

Next time, maybe spend as much time researching something before spouting off . . .

A thread that seemed relevant from the Wisconsin forum was linked somewhere above. It basically said that the gentleman in question had found a different hobby to spend his time on, and he was tired of some complaints he had recieved on various geocaching matters, and therefore he archived his caches and we should trust him to get around to cleaning them up whenever. I surfed that forum a little bit more but didn't see anything else relevant. If I missed something, I'll be happy to follow any relevant links that you guys would like to provide, within reason.

September 7, 2005

wzbt03 is a well-respected cacher in Wisconsin. His hides were all very smart & fun, and usually pretty challenging. We're all going to miss his caches. His reasons for archiving his caches are his own and we respect his decision. He also stated he would pick them up, and we trust that he will do that. I have offered to help, if he so desires.

He's not gone from geocaching, it just isn't his main pastime. I'd rather have someone placing caches who has the time to maintain them and respond to problems promptly. The fact that he can't pick them up right away shows that he wouldn't have time to properly maintain that many caches.

Bec

5.6k · September 7, 2005

I want to ask what is the difference between a box sitting in the woods with an active listing on this site and a box sitting in the woods with an archived listing on this site? Why is one "litter" and not the other - it's still a box sitting in the woods? Or how about the flip side, while a cache is pending approval, isn't it litter because there is no active listing?

The difference between an approved or approval-pending box and an archived box is simple. The caches that are approved or awaiting approval are either in active use or will be actively used soon. An archived cache that is not picked up is potential litter because nobody has any intention of using it again, neither the cache owner or cachers.

Ahh! There's the key: POTENTIAL! Everyone is dumping on a cacher for saying he will pick up his caches when he has the time later. Everyone is assuming he won't. He didn't have to admit that the boxes weren't picked up yet, so give him credit, he says he'll do it, let him.

And pending cache aren't always approved, so there's this box in the woods...

1.7k · September 7, 2005

I used the word potential because I wanted to give the fellow the benefit of the doubt. The caches are not quite litter yet, but they do have potential.

September 7, 2005

OK everyone...I finally found it again! Thanks for all of your help. I went to a close cache and found someone who had already found it, then logged in. I wrote that I found it and I hope the person gets rid of it. It's a small container thats wet and falling apart. She deleted my find, and here's what she wrote...

Hi,

I archived Cachews Medal more then a week ago.

Perhaps closer to two weeks.

I requested that people not search for them and I will state that

whenever I decide to pick up my caches is my business, not yours.

I am deleting your log. You should check cache status before hunting

them.

Wzbt03

I have reported this person for leaving 100+ caches laying around the state! I won't write in here what my response was to her!!! LOL

If you have an archived cache of your own, just log a find on it, stating that the find is for the archived cache in question.

And if I lived in Wisconsin I'd specifically go out, start finding this lame-o's archived caches and remove them from their environment. No geolitter to worry about. And free cache containers for me.

September 7, 2005

And if I lived in Wisconsin I'd specifically go out, start finding this lame-o's archived caches and remove them from their environment. No geolitter to worry about. And free cache containers for me.

That sounds a lot like theft, which is a lot more reprehensible than someone taking their sweet time picking up their archived caches. This person (provided they followed all applicable laws) has just as much right as you or I to place a tupperware container out in a public place. That they have chosen to archive the listing on this site is irrelevant. It's their tupperware, they can do with it as they please. (Provided no laws are broken of course).

Ownership of these caches is a matter of public record; the caches can not be considered litter until it is proven that the owner has abandoned them. And that can take some doing, especially when the owner publically states that the caches are his.

September 7, 2005

...An archived cache that is not picked up is potential litter because nobody has any intention of using it again, neither the cache owner or cachers.

Apparantly that's not true. Apparantly there are people who do in fact go out and seek cache hides that have been archived. Apparantly they then log the finds and post notes on the Groundspeak forums so that others can chime in with words of...well....IMHO...blind and/or misinformed ignorance. And apparantly after having suggestions made that they research the topic before speaking further, they choose to ignore the possibility that they may have been wrong, and simply continue blowing hot air at their keyboards.

An archived cache is an archived cache and isn't meant to be found.

MB

September 7, 2005

And if I lived in Wisconsin I'd specifically go out, start finding this lame-o's archived caches and remove them from their environment. No geolitter to worry about. And free cache containers for me.

Lame-o's go out and steal other peoples caches. Lame-o's get all worked up over something that really doesnt concern them. Lame-o's worry worry worry about other peoples business. Lame-o's publicly bash other people. Lame-o's think that Thier feelings are the only right ones. Lame-o's loose sleep over subjects like this one...

Lame-o's are a dime a dozen, and are most often simply ignored due to thier glaring ignorance. Lame-o's Unite!

Some people just have wayyyyy to much time on thier hands.

Get over it people.

September 7, 2005

I think this thread should be closed, as I see it creating more criticism (in this case, bad) than good karma.

.

September 7, 2005

I think this thread should be closed, as I see it creating more criticism (in this case, bad) than good karma.

.

How do I close it?

Where Did It Go?

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