CB&MB

I'm not sure what the intentions are for the future of International sales. I do know that for the purpose of initiating sales in the year 2005, there were certain limits put on ordering the coins. The coins aren't even minted yet, so don't give up. Perhaps once the system is figured out, the WGA will open sales up across the border and/or oceans. It took a lot of thought, conversation, debate, and...well...crap to get these going. I'm sure it will all come together if we just give it some time. MajorBrat

We did Lateral Thinking a while ago. I finished the first part quickly enough, but didn't know what that puzzle was leading me to. Luckily, CB knew what it was telling me to look for. Once I knew that, the rest of the puzzles took me about an hour to figure out. The worst thing was knowing where to find the cache container, and having to wait weeks to get out and sign the log. No worries though, we did it and loved it! We can't wait for Brew to put out his next puzzle! MB

Very sad and very scary! Be careful out there people!!! CB&MB

Check out this thread...you may find some hints: http://forums.Groundspeak.com/GC/index.php?showtopic=97066 It's another "puzzle" thread MB

Apparantly that's not true. Apparantly there are people who do in fact go out and seek cache hides that have been archived. Apparantly they then log the finds and post notes on the Groundspeak forums so that others can chime in with words of...well....IMHO...blind and/or misinformed ignorance. And apparantly after having suggestions made that they research the topic before speaking further, they choose to ignore the possibility that they may have been wrong, and simply continue blowing hot air at their keyboards. An archived cache is an archived cache and isn't meant to be found. MB

Like LightningBugs, I was going to stay out of this, but what the heck... I too agree w/ RK about when to pick up the caches. It's no one else's business! If people weren't out there searching for caches that have been archived, they wouldn't know the containers were still there! And if they came upon it accidentally, then they should sign the log and email the owner requesting permission to log. I know many cache owners who have allowed people to log archived caches that they have found. If the owner declines, then the finder needs to leave it at that instead of being a jerk about it! As someone who has cached many of his hides, spent many hours seeking other hiders caches, and hosted events with him, I can tell you that he does know what he's doing! And not that he needs my help, he's quite capable of speaking for himself, but wzbt is a VERY responsible cacher! And as a hider, he was always willing to run out to one of his caches if someone let him know of a problem. If people would take the time to look at his posted archives, they would see that he DID NOT archive them all at once. He DID NOT leave all of the containers out there "littering" the woods (as some may have suggested), and he DID let others adopt many of the caches he was archiving. On more than on occasion he posted notes on the WGA site telling of his intention to archive. He told those interested in adopting the caches to email him. And upon his suggestion, several of his caches were adopted. To go even further, when he stepped away from the WGA, he allowed someone to adopt his State Stats thread so that it would continue to show on the WGA forums. So while I may be sad about the fact that I never made it to all 115 of his hides, and I miss our TB moments, I do agree that what he does is his business and not ours! MB SIDE NOTE: So many times people read something on these threads and take them as gospel without reasearching the truth. So many times people are quick to jump in, and spout off at the mouth, not knowing the full story. So many times people make complete and total idiots out of themselves for no reason...all they would have had to do is read a little further, or go to a different page, and they could have remained quiet. And so many times, people get things "stirred up" on these threads, then walk away from the page because they were proven to be out of line. Only occasionally do they apologize for their ignorance! So on behalf of those people that know who they are but refuse to admit it, WZBT03...sorry! (oops...was that too harsh?)

You have an absolute right to offer your opinion, however...NO ONE HAS THE RIGHT TO JUDGE ANOTHER! At the risk of stepping on toes here: There is a divine existence which holds that power. No man (or woman) has that right. As for this ridiculous discussion...give it a rest! People are going to log caches and events as they see fit. You can't change how I allow people to log my caches and I can't change that about yours so let it be! The name calling and belittling of opinions is rude too! Although we've found quite a bit of humor in many of the statements here, we would appreciate it if people would stop repeating themselves. Make your point and move on! And for goodness sakes, when you are making that point, please, please, please use a spelling that is somewhat recognizable. I may want to look it up in the dictionary (you know, that little book where those of us with a basic grasp of the English language go when we're unsure of what the heck you're saying.). Our point (also known as our opinion): Logging a geocache that was loaded into my GPSR and uncovered by CB or myself when we were out caching together makes me smile...so why shouldn't my log smile too? Perhaps some of you would like a member of the WGA to assist you in planning and executing an event. Then you too could see how much fun it is! And I'm willing to bet that those attending will appreciate a little more of what we actually go through here. There are no freebies...unless you count the logbook at the sign-in table. Yes, there is a logbook at the sign-in table. For the record, there have been several people from other states who have attended our events and used them as guides for hosting their own. One example of a log (which can be seen on the page for GCJV9Q) is: "Great event. Many thanks to the WGA for showing us how to do things right. I hope we can repeat this success at our upcoming EIGA Hike -n- Seek in Waterloo (Iowa)..." And not that it matters, but the person who started this thread has since sent us an e-mail apologizing for doing so. I'm only sorry that we started reading it. I am pretty sure we're done with this thread now but one never knows... Thanks to those in support of our efforts and good luck in getting people to open their eyes and minds . To all of you we say, "Happy Caching!"! RESUME MUD-SLINGING! MajorBrat

I wanted to know the experience level of the person who made this statement. I looked at the profile and found this: Biography: This is my alias, so I can post to our local geocaching forum as well as the national ones and not have my caches or personal emails flamed. Am not overtly malicious but this allows me the freedom to speak my mind You were wrong in your statement about which of us is inexperienced. You would have seen this had you looked at the profiles of both of us, or read the thread through before offering up your words of wisdom. Several people have stated the stats of both parties involved here. Your stats on the other hand are hidden from the world. You chose to hide behind your little sock puppet so you didn't have to face the Geo Community. This leaves me to wonder what you're hiding for...hmmm.... I would love to know what your experiences are so please e-mail me w/ your real Geo name so that I can see for myself. As for the container, a previous post here also showed that it wasn't the container that was the issue, it was the little plastic thing that tore the log sheet up and didn't allow a person to remove or replace the log w/ out further damage. (Ah the glory of speaking w/ out the facts...) MajorBrat

Raise your hand if you'd be willing to play golf or poker with someone who had this attitude. Me neither. People who love a game like its parameters to be well defined. Even a non-competitive game needs clear boundaries to make sense -- you don't get in the books for climbing Everest if you only made it halfway up, even if "we call halfway pretty much done here in Idaho." This juxtaposition is just precious. This is exactly the small-minded stuff I was referring to. Instead of quoting things that matter you went straight to something you could disagree with. Again I say, "GROW UP!" I am amazed at the people who are offering opinions about how things should be run. Perhaps they should spend more time on the trails and less time on the forums, then they may see how different each trail really is. I looked at the profiles for EVERY person who is on this thread. The average person posting has somewhere in the 200-500 finds range, yet has 1000+ forum posts in the year or more they've been caching. Hmmmm...am I going to listen to those who talk about it, or those who are out there doing it? It's a no brainer! I'm watching and learning from the ones who are doing it! And for the record...my hand is raised high! MB

Cathunter has a great idea...we'll have to use that the next time Team Badger hosts an event! So many of you are concerned with the "numbers" we're logging here in WI...have any of you looked at profiles to see that almost half of my personal finds are in other states? On my individual account I have cached in 13 states. Does anyone care about that? No...all you care about is that I logged some dang caches that you didn't get to log because you weren't there that day. You know, the day I spent 6-12 hours walking around in the woods signing my name on logs or stamping my master cache sheet. You weren't there to see me scale the brick wall or walk across the creek on a fallen tree so that I could log a cache. You weren't there to see the mosquitos eating me alive as I stood breathing with the aide of an inhaler while climbing 500 feet up a steep incline. You weren't there to see me standing atop of a bluff after walking with a group of cachers in search of yet another temporary hide. You weren't there to see a group of people laughing at the "finder's tree" while waiting for the last person to discover the hidden treasure. (We don't just go and grab it. When walking w/ a group each person upon finding the cache keeps wandering around pretending they're still searching. Once they are a safe distance away they call the "finder's tree" and as others find it, they join the group. This way each person is allowed the chance to find the cache on their own. No one is handed a find just because they're there!) You weren't there to see the smiles on the faces of the cache hiders as we talked about their efforts. You weren't there beaming with pride at the thought of your cache being searched out by 100+ people in the course of a single day. While there will always be those who are concerned with the "numbers" they can gain at an event, most who attend are in it for the search. Most enjoy the fact that they can go to one place, meet new people who have the same interests as they, reconnect with others they have met previously, spend time with old friends. Do we log some caches along the way? Heck yeah! And why not! The normal chain of events allows for WGA temporary hides to be placed an average of a month in advance. Anyone so desiring shows up on the listed date, they pick/are assigned an area in the park, grab containers (or bring their own) and then hide them. They are responsible for listing coordinates and the cache description (just like on a gc.com page). Caches are put into a computer that day and critiqued as necessary. Numbers are tested at some point before the event starts. These caches are not thrown out the window of a car, they are not tossed off the trail as one rides a bike from one end to the other. None of them are placed without some thought of how they will be received by others. So get off of your high horses people! If you want to cache here...welcome. If not, stop your whining about something that you can't control anyhow! If control is what you're after I suggest you play alone! Me, I'll keep doing what I'm doing until I find something I enjoy more. For the record, all events held here are not full of temp hides. The following is a note placed on the cache page for an event that Commander Bob and I hosted along with some other members of a group called "Team Badger" (Team Badger being ANYONE who shows up...no matter where you're from!). Badger Brunch ~ GCMRBC February 18 by MajorBrat (1162 found) PLEASE NOTE: In the spirit of Team Badger we have decided to only drop a couple of temps for this event! Team Badger is not about the numbers, it's about the TEAM! While we will have a laptop available for loading area caches, we suggest that you lock and load from home (or at the very least bring your GPSR cable w/ you. We'll have e-tex, magellan, and Garmin 76). See you there...Major Brat I have learned a few things about Geocaching in the last 20+ months: While one cache may resemble another, no two caches are alike. No two cachers are alike either. We all move at our own pace, search out caches of our own choosing and log according to our own beliefs. No one person has the right to tell another whether or not they are doing something wrong. They may offer opinion (which is what I'm doing now), but no one has to listen. What's right for you may not be right for me. What's right for me may totally tick you off. It's your choice whether or not to play with me...it's YOUR CHOICE. Make it according to what you want to do...not because I told you to. Grow up and stop acting like a bunch of pre-schoolers! MajorBrat

Nope...no reply from him on the e-mail or on the fact that we re-logged the cache. We didn't really expect to hear from him though. It's sad how he got this thread started (2 days after we sent him e-mail) and then disappeared. As with the initial cache page, we believe that he began hearing that people weren't seeing things his way 100% so he bolted from site. It really is sad how stuff like that happens but we can't control everyone...heck, half of the time we can't even control each other or ourselves. Now...let us take this time to thank those of you who took the time to research the cache, our log, our stats and our style before unjustly persecuting us here. And we commend those of you who were big enough people to, once you had the full story, admit that you may have jumped to conclusions about what our friend G-O-JOE wrote. We aren't rookies and we're not professionals...we simply know what we like, or in this case...don't like, and comment on that in our logs. We love to cache and would welcome the opportunity to go for a walk with anyone. Drop us an e-mail and let's get moving! Don't plan on a day full of 1/1's though...those rarely happen for us. For us it's usually about long walks, great scenery, lots of mosquitos and ticks and of course the forgotten meals. If you can handle that...let's go! As for the event caches...each one we logged was loaded into the GPSR, and searched for using the traditional methods of Geocaching. None were handed out to us, we earned each of them...so we logged them! Word-play is just a fun way to break up the logging process. The event coordinators and those attending know what we're talking about when we log. Thanks for playing! Commander Bob & MajorBrat

Okay people…so let’s get this put into the proper perspective, shall we?! First we found a cache on the GPSR then looked it up in the palm. Oh goodie…a three that involves stealth in a very public place. And it’s by a newbie…cool! Okay, so this person needs some help with grammar and spelling, but in his defense…he is a newbie! So off we go in the direction of the cute little arrow on the GPSR. What? Only 65 ft. from the car? Okay, so it’s gotta be right there. Yep, there it is…what the heck? (That 3 star took 22 seconds to find, and that includes the walk from the car!) Oh c’mon, I can’t get the log out of here…it’s stuck on the plastic thing in the middle…oh geeze…look how torn up this is from that plastic thing. Oh well, let’s sign and get out of here. So here’s the thing: What our friend G-O-JOE neglected to share with the rest of the class is the fact that HE ASKED for people to tell him what they thought of the cache! Too bad he didn’t really want to know. He also neglected to put in anything about the fact that we did remain calm in the cache log. We also did send an e-mail to him personally. If in fact you do not want people to respond honestly, do one of two things, either don’t ask them to or don’t hide any caches! Since he felt the need to give bits and pieces of our log and e-mail and took them out of context, it is our responsibility to correct his “commets” yet again. The following should help (ps…he still hasn’t fixed the cache page and even had spelling errors in his forum post here): ORIGINAL CACHE PAGE: Micro Cach For A Micro Park by G-O-Joe Use waypoint: GCNVC9 Difficulty: Terrain: This is a level 3 for hardness because of the very public place it is in and it is a 1 for terrain because it goes no lower. BE VERRY descret when looking for this cach. It is a glue stick container painted black. It is in a very public place. To help you be inconspicious with this I'm going to tell you that it is in the base of a tree near the edge of the park, BUT it is in the park. This is my first cach like a test run so don't expect anything great and please leave commets about it. This was place with permission from the park service and that info is in the cach. Have fun. Additional Hints (Encrypt) short side of the park in a hole in the very bottom bark is covering it ORIGINAL CACHE LOG: (5-31-05) CB&MB found Micro Cach For A Micro Park (Traditional Cache) Okay, so you want "commets" about this "cach"...maybe we're not the best people to give those as we have nothing nice to say other than it was a clean park. Being as this is your first hide, we will reserve "commets" here and send you an e-mail. It was a valiant attempt and with a bit of tweeking can be made better. CB&MB ps...the container was TERRIBLE! E-MAIL SENT TO CACHE OWNER WHEN LOGGING CACHE (5-31-05): --This message was sent through the Geocaching.com web site-- -- Copy of email sent to G-O-Joe -- Hi MajorBrat here...Commander Bob and I went to your cache hide today. I wanted to tell you a few things about what we discovered. We understand that this is your first attempt at a hide, and since you want feedback...well...here you go! First and most importantly: FIX YOUR CACHE PAGE!!! There were so many spelling and grammar errors in the cache description that we almost didn't even attempt to find the cache. That's "cache"...not "cach"... The container was really bad! I understand that you may have chosen it because it was small enough to fit in the hole it was in or that you may have had it lying around the house, but you could have at least cut out the little orange thing in the middle (the piece that moves the glue up). Also, there is no way this is a 3 on difficulty. Even though some stealth may be necessary at times, it's not more than a 1.5. All you have to do is mark the "stealth" icon and you're good to go there. The fact that you tell people EXACTLY where to find the cache may even make it a 1...but that's our opinion. In fact, all of these things are our opinion. We thought about not saying anything and just moving along the road, but that's not really our style. And now is the best time for you to learn all aspects of hiding a cache. Sorry if you find any of this harsh, but we call 'em like we see 'em and we'd like to see you do better. Good luck and we'll be watching for more from you. MajorBrat RE-LOGGED AFTER DELETION: May 31 by CB&MB (190 found) (Re-logged on 6-1) We found this yesterday and logged it but the cache owner deleted our log. He asked for "commets" which we took to mean "comments" yet when we gave them he deleted the log. Gee, maybe we should post the email we sent instead of just a "found it" log. The park was clean, the cache was there, the container needs some attention and the log was torn up. Other then that...FOUND IT! CB&MB So, as you can see (or not…if you’re wearing rose-colored glasses), we were more than fair about our response to this cache. Again we say, “If you don’t want to know what people have to say, don’t ask them!” As for our cache numbers, we have done plenty of caches and you’re all free to look at our profiles. When we cache together we use CB&MB – 191 caches. If we’re alone we use Commander Bob – 1225 finds, 13 hides (including the WGA’s cache of the year), or MajorBrat – 1162 finds and 5 hides. Further research will also point out the fact that we aren’t the kind of cachers who search for the “pussy caches” all the time. We’re very fond of the long hikes that take us to wonderful places and the short ones that keep us looking for an hour only to go, “Duh, how’d we miss that?” in the end. Speaking of irony: Spencersb Posted: Jun 3 2005, 12:47 PM Founding Member of GOWT Posts: 337 Joined: 2-June 04 Lots of good advice already given. Take the comments and see if there's anything in there that can make your cache better. I simply couldn't resist the irony, since the log criticizes your spelling: "Other then that...FOUND IT!" (emphasis mine) A special word of thanks to Spencersh for pointing out the “spelling” error we made in our log…too bad it wasn’t a spelling error, it was grammatical! We meant to write “than.” (Nice try though.) Commander Bob & MajorBrat