Jump to content

Bizarre Hypocrisy


FishPOET
Followers 4

Recommended Posts

For years we were told that containers, logbooks and 528' were the "essence" of the game.....then along came earthcaches.

 

Now Groundspeak has sold us out to REI and Magellan. A 1 hour Magellan Explorist commercial at the local REI was thrust upon us as an "Event Cache" http://www.geocaching.com/seek/cache_details.aspx?wp=GCQ2YT

 

Rules and guidlines MUST apply to everyone equally or they are useless.

Link to comment
Rules and guidlines MUST apply to everyone equally or they are useless

 

The rules and guidelines are for geocachers who use this service. Geocaching.com is a business and operates under different rules. Its why they can forge ties with Jeep, Magellan, REI and whomever else they want to, but we can't.

 

That being said, judging from the logs, it looks like the event you linked to was a commercial disguised as an event. Had it been listed as such there is no way the reviewer would have approved it. In the reviewer's defense, he could not have known what the real deal was judging from the event page, which simply says:

 

"This is a Free Clinic that will cover the basics of Geo-Gaching and GPS Units. Time 7PM-8PM, August 18. Details on GPS Hunt Game where you can win GPS Related Products, will also be discussed this evening."

 

It seems that people were hoodwinked and the reviewer is one of the victims.

Edited by briansnat
Link to comment

I agree with the points that if this "event" was purely a demo of magellan products, it shouldn't have been listed on the site.

 

However, from the guidelines:

 

Commercial Caches / Caches that Solicit

 

<snip>

 

Some exceptions can be made. In these rare situations, permission can be given by the Geocaching.com web site. However, permission should be asked first before posting. If you are in doubt, ask first.

 

Like it or not, TPTB have the right to grant special permission for these types of events. It would have been much better to present a true picture of what was scheduled to take place.

Link to comment
from the reviewer:

 

The recent event at REI was obviously not in compliance with the guidelines as we all know them.

 

Groundspeak approved this event and notified me via email to list it.

Oops, I didn't see that. See the first paragraph in my previous post then.

Edited by briansnat
Link to comment
from the reviewer:

 

The recent event at REI was obviously not in compliance with the guidelines as we all know them.

 

Groundspeak approved this event and notified me via email to list it.

That fits the guidelines. Commercial caches can be approved with permission. Looks like they got that permission from Groundspeak.

Link to comment

I didn't personally allow this one, but if someone at Groundspeak did and it didn't turn out the way the event organizer said it was going to be, I'd be just as upset. I'll ask around the office and find out the story on this one.

 

I'm personally not in the business of allowing deceptive listings on the site. Are you saying this wasn't covering Geocaching and GPS?

Edited by Jeremy
Link to comment

I personally have no problem with Groundspeak approving "commercial" caches.

 

I would hope, however, that there was a disclaimer somewhere on the cache page that the cache may be commercial in nature.

 

"Groundspeak is aware of the commercial nature of this cache and/or event and it has been approved with special permission".

 

I'd be pretty pissed if I showed up to what was in fact a product pitch (I don't have the necessary info to decide if that was in fact the case in this situation). In this case I'd expect it to be a class, not a showcase of one particular gps brand/model. (Of course, this could be a fine line... they could have just picked whatever gps they were most familiar with... then again - if it was "the Magellan Explorist is THE model to have. You will ALWAY find what you're looking for. It's superior for geocaching activites. Buy one now for 3 easy payments of $29.99" I would be pissed).

 

sd

Link to comment

I would also like to find out from others before we rush to judgement for this one. There's a difference between using the Magellan eXplorist bramd of units to talk about GPS and geocaching, and a presentation of the Magellan eXpolorist units with almost 0 mention of geocaching.

Link to comment
I would also like to find out from others before we rush to judgement for this one. There's a difference between using the Magellan eXplorist bramd of units to talk about GPS and geocaching, and a presentation of the Magellan eXpolorist units with almost 0 mention of geocaching.

Agreed. I don't see a lot of complaining in the last 5 logs (I didn't expand) but it'd be interesting to hear what other geocachers who attended the event thought about it.

 

sd

Link to comment

For those of us that were not at this event it would be hard to say how strong any commercial could have be. For several years I also ran free seminars like this for my employer at the time, in the early years they were just GPS seminars and then I changed them to Geocaching seminars.

 

It would be really hard to do a seminar like this without explaining the features of the GPS units that are available to purchase. Sure you could just not mention any products from Magellan or Garmin, but peole are going to ask about them anyway.

 

I really do not think this was a commercail event, it was an event to teach people about geocaching that might have an interest in it. Why anyone who is already a geocacher would atten such an event does not make a lot of sense to me.

 

Events like this that are directed at non geocachers can help geocaching grow and this could mean more FTFs for me. :lol:

 

edit to add:

Just an hour to cover geocaching is not enough time. When I was doing geocaching seminars we took the paeple that attened out in the field to find some the I had place in a local park, five of them are still active caches.

While I am not a real big REI fan at least they are doing something for the sport of geocaching.

Edited by JohnnyVegas
Link to comment
I would also like to find out from others before we rush to judgement for this one. There's a difference between using the Magellan eXplorist bramd of units to talk about GPS and geocaching, and a presentation of the Magellan eXpolorist units with almost 0 mention of geocaching.

Agreed. I don't see a lot of complaining in the last 5 logs (I didn't expand) but it'd be interesting to hear what other geocachers who attended the event thought about it.

 

sd

From the logs:

 

"Can you say M-a-g-e-l-l-a-n? I must've missed the part about geocaching when I sneezed."

 

"Missed the part of the clinic where the use of the Garmin handhelds were discussed… still, good times meeting up with some geocaching friends.

Took 5 bucks, left nothing, and would’ve signed the log if there was one."

 

"Guess this was a commercial cache after all. A commercial for Magellan. At least I got to see the new Explorists up close and was pretty impressed"

 

"#803 @ 7pm - Wasn't expecting a commercial for Magellan! I'm a Garmin fan/user but have to admit that that Color eXplorist was VERY nice!"

 

Its not a big deal if you know what you are in for, otherwise its like being invited to a friends house for a party and finding an Amway presentation. :lol:

Link to comment

Ya know what? Why don't we actually have a category just for commercial caches. People who want to promote their store, website, whatever, could just do it and not try to cheat the system or deceive an approver to do it.

 

Those of us who do not want to find or log commercial caches can skip them completely.

 

At least it would be up front.

 

If Groundspeak wanted to charge, say...three dollars a month (same as a premium membership) to have their store front listed as a commercial cache, I'm sure they would have plenty of takers.

 

The store front (or ammo box, or whatever) could have product/service related swag and, who knows, maybe give a discount to geocachers who come in to sign the log.

 

:lol::lol::lol:

Link to comment
Of course, too, Magellan probably has a lot deeper pockets than Jeremy. If they want to hop on the geocaching bandwagon I'm sure putting a few of the top geocachers on the paroll could boost a site enough to give Jeremy a run for his money.

I do not see Magellan tring to start their own geocaching bussiness, but I would expect them to try and work with Groundspeak to increase their market share. If they want to donated prizes for an REI seminar I have no problem with that at all.

 

One thing I have noticed in the REI stores that I have been to is that most of their employee do not even know how to turn a GPS on, let alone explain the operation of one.

 

I was with a freind at an REI that wanted to buy a Magellan sport track map an all the REI sales person said was that magellan units do not work, those were his exact words. I ask him if he ever used one and he said know he had no experiance with any Magellan GPS, as a matter of fact his only experiance with Garmin was a 1 hour rep seminar. But he was the stores GPS specialist.

Link to comment
I was with a freind at an REI that wanted to buy a Magellan sport track map an all the REI sales person said was that magellan units do not work, those were his exact words. I ask him if he ever used one and he said know he had no experiance with any Magellan GPS, as a matter of fact his only experiance with Garmin was a 1 hour rep seminar. But he was the stores GPS specialist.

I think I ran into the same fella but he was working at Sports Authority in Irving, TX at the time.

 

:lol:

Link to comment
I was with a freind at an REI that wanted to buy a Magellan sport track map an all the REI sales person said was that magellan units do not work, those were his exact words. I ask him if he ever used one and he said know he had no experiance with any Magellan GPS, as a matter of fact his only experiance with Garmin was a 1 hour rep seminar. But he was the stores GPS specialist.

I think I ran into the same fella but he was working at Sports Authority in Irving, TX at the time.

 

:lol:

He sure gets around doesn't he :lol:

 

THe problem is that these big retailers want to get into the GPS market, but they do not want to spend the money to teach their staff how to use them, as a result they cannot sell them.

 

imagine a customer and atarts asking about a GPS, and all the staff can say is something like "it's works with sattlelites so you don't get lost" or "I think this one works better, but I am not sure why" then ther is the classic "that guy that is suppose to know about them is off today, you maight want to try another day"

then the big retailer wonders why they do not sell many of them, Duhh

Link to comment

The host of the event was Tosmith who has no finds besides this event. He also has one hide that is a REI promotion. One log to the event even mentions buying a unit while there. This was clearly a commercial event and violates guidelines.

 

El Diablo

Edited by El Diablo
Link to comment
I didn't personally allow this one, but if someone at Groundspeak did and it didn't turn out the way the event organizer said it was going to be, I'd be just as upset. I'll ask around the office and find out the story on this one.

There's an office?!?

 

Whoa.

 

Trying to absorb that. Is there, like, a Groundspeak copy machine with staples and paperclips next to it? Is there an annual picnic? Do you all hate that one guy in accounting? You know the one! Is there petty cash and do you use it to buy Debbie at the front desk a card on her birthday?

 

Office and geocaching. It's like matter and antimatter. I'm going to have to chew on this a while.

Link to comment
The host of the event was Tosmith who has no finds besides this event. He also has one hide that is a REI promotion. One log to the event even mentions buying a unit while there. This was clearly a commercial event and violates guidelines.

 

El Diablo

nope

 

Commercial Caches / Caches that Solicit

 

<snip>

 

Some exceptions can be made. In these rare situations, permission can be given by the Geocaching.com web site. However, permission should be asked first before posting. If you are in doubt, ask first.

 

Sorry but this WAS approved by Groundspeak.

Link to comment
I didn't personally allow this one, but if someone at Groundspeak did and it didn't turn out the way the event organizer said it was going to be, I'd be just as upset. I'll ask around the office and find out the story on this one.

There's an office?!?

 

Whoa.

 

Trying to absorb that. Is there, like, a Groundspeak copy machine with staples and paperclips next to it? Is there an annual picnic? Do you all hate that one guy in accounting? You know the one! Is there petty cash and do you use it to buy Debbie at the front desk a card on her birthday?

 

Office and geocaching. It's like matter and antimatter. I'm going to have to chew on this a while.

there is an office, Ive been there. No debbie. Hydee and Nate were closest to the door when i was there. Nice place but they need some pictures on the walls :lol:

Link to comment
The REI GPS HUNT GAME Cache is open from August 12th thru September 16th.

 

This really stinks. We are bombarded by advertising 24/7/365. Radio, TV, Newspaper, and even driving down the highway.

 

Guess I'll never purchase a Magellan or shop at REI.

Gee, a temp cache to boot! Stuff like this (along with REI's prices) will keep me from their stores as well.

Link to comment
There's an office?!?

 

Whoa.

 

Trying to absorb that. Is there, like, a Groundspeak copy machine with staples and paperclips next to it?

I've been there. Yes, it's an office. And it has office things in it like cubicles and computers and so forth.

Is there an annual picnic?
Yes.

 

Do you all hate that one guy in accounting? You know the one!
Everyone's pretty cool.

 

Is there petty cash and do you use it to buy Debbie at the front desk a card on her birthday?

There's no front desk. There is a large beanbag chair. And there's no Debbie. And no cash is "petty."

Link to comment
The REI GPS HUNT GAME Cache is open from August 12th thru September 16th. 

 

This really stinks.  We are bombarded by advertising 24/7/365.  Radio, TV, Newspaper, and even driving down the highway. 

 

Guess I'll never purchase a Magellan or shop at REI.

First, the event in question Did not violate the guidelines

 

Second, Guidlines are just that guidlines, they are not rules

 

Third, Groundspeak is a bussiness, if Gound speak wants to promote geocaching through REI and Magellan, that is there bussiness Could it by that Garmin did not offer to help with an event to promote geocaching.

 

Using your logic of not shoping at REI and to never purchase a Magellan product shouldn't you carry this to the next level and not use the services of Groundspeak anymore. :lol:

 

I would like to see more events to promote geocaching in REI and at other retailers.

 

I do not see your name in the logs for the event, so I guess you were not their.

Edited by JohnnyVegas
Link to comment
The host of the event was Tosmith who has no finds besides this event. He also has one hide that is a REI promotion. One log to the event even mentions buying a unit while there. This was clearly a commercial event and violates guidelines.

 

El Diablo

nope

 

Commercial Caches / Caches that Solicit

 

<snip>

 

Some exceptions can be made. In these rare situations, permission can be given by the Geocaching.com web site. However, permission should be asked first before posting. If you are in doubt, ask first.

 

Sorry but this WAS approved by Groundspeak.

There is a difference between an "Event Cache" and a "Commercial Cache" The guidlines you quoted are for Commercial caches. This was an Event cache. Which the guidelines state...

 

Event Caches

 

Event caches are gatherings that are open to all geocachers and which are organized by geocachers. After the event has passed, the event cache should be archived by the organizer within four weeks. While a music concert, a garage sale, a ham radio field day or town’s fireworks display might be of interest to a large percentage of geocachers, such events are not suitable for submission as event caches because the organizers and the primary attendees are not geocachers. In addition, an event cache should not be set up for the sole purpose of drawing together cachers for an organized hunt of another cache or caches. Such group hunts are best organized using the forums or an email distribution list.

 

For geocaching events that involve several components, such as a day-long group cache hunt that also involves a seminar and dinner, only a single event cache covering all components should be submitted.

 

Event caches should be submitted no less than two weeks prior to the date of the event, so that potential attendees will have sufficient notice to make their plans. Events are generally listed no more than three months prior to the date of the event, to avoid having the listing appear for a prolonged period of time on the nearest caches page and in the weekly e-mail notification of new caches. Exceptions are sometimes made for events that are designed to attract a regional, national or international group of geocachers. Contact your reviewer if you wish to set up such an event, which may be listed up to six months in advance.

 

And that was a violation of guidelines. Tosmith is not a cacher, or at least has not demosrated that he/she is, since so far the only caching done was for commercial purposes.

 

El Diablo

Link to comment

:lol: Well I hope that there was at least some commercial representation of Groundspeak.

I mean, if you have an office and all, you need to act corporate.

Dress down Fridays.

And I certainly hope you have a Vice President of Marketing.

If not, I think Dogbert may be available for consults. :lol:

Link to comment

I have no problem with a commercial event. However it should be annouced as such and not be deceptive in nature.

 

As a matter of fact had the event been announced as a an event being hosted by REI and Magellan promoting and giving away products, it would have probably have drawn more people than it did. I know if it was local I would have attended.

 

It's the deceptive nature that bothers me.

 

El Diablo

Link to comment
The REI GPS HUNT GAME Cache is open from August 12th thru September 16th. 

 

This really stinks.  We are bombarded by advertising 24/7/365.  Radio, TV, Newspaper, and even driving down the highway. 

 

Guess I'll never purchase a Magellan or shop at REI.

Gee, a temp cache to boot! Stuff like this (along with REI's prices) will keep me from their stores as well.

If one really is upset by this why direct the backlash at REI or Magellan? Direct it at the source that allowed it, Groundspeak.

 

From what we know at this point this was approved by Groundspeak, its their site they get to do that. From time to time they do make exceptions and handle placement of some caches differently.

Link to comment
I would also like to find out from others before we rush to judgement for this one. There's a difference between using the Magellan eXplorist bramd of units to talk about GPS and geocaching, and a presentation of the Magellan eXpolorist units with almost 0 mention of geocaching.

Agreed. I don't see a lot of complaining in the last 5 logs (I didn't expand) but it'd be interesting to hear what other geocachers who attended the event thought about it.

 

sd

From the logs:

 

"Can you say M-a-g-e-l-l-a-n? I must've missed the part about geocaching when I sneezed."

 

"Missed the part of the clinic where the use of the Garmin handhelds were discussed… still, good times meeting up with some geocaching friends.

Took 5 bucks, left nothing, and would’ve signed the log if there was one."

 

"Guess this was a commercial cache after all. A commercial for Magellan. At least I got to see the new Explorists up close and was pretty impressed"

 

"#803 @ 7pm - Wasn't expecting a commercial for Magellan! I'm a Garmin fan/user but have to admit that that Color eXplorist was VERY nice!"

 

Its not a big deal if you know what you are in for, otherwise its like being invited to a friends house for a party and finding an Amway presentation. :lol:

ROFLMAO!

 

Yep. I happen to know the person that left that log. Her logs are among my favorites on my OWN caches that she has found. I think you hit the nail on the head with that remark.

 

PS- I wouldn't have commented here except for that.

Link to comment
The host of the event was Tosmith who has no finds besides this event. He also has one hide that is a REI promotion. One log to the event even mentions buying a unit while there. This was clearly a commercial event and violates guidelines.

 

El Diablo

nope

 

Commercial Caches / Caches that Solicit

 

<snip>

 

Some exceptions can be made. In these rare situations, permission can be given by the Geocaching.com web site. However, permission should be asked first before posting. If you are in doubt, ask first.

 

Sorry but this WAS approved by Groundspeak.

There is a difference between an "Event Cache" and a "Commercial Cache" The guidlines you quoted are for Commercial caches. This was an Event cache. Which the guidelines state...

 

Event Caches

 

Event caches are gatherings that are open to all geocachers and which are organized by geocachers. After the event has passed, the event cache should be archived by the organizer within four weeks. While a music concert, a garage sale, a ham radio field day or town’s fireworks display might be of interest to a large percentage of geocachers, such events are not suitable for submission as event caches because the organizers and the primary attendees are not geocachers. In addition, an event cache should not be set up for the sole purpose of drawing together cachers for an organized hunt of another cache or caches. Such group hunts are best organized using the forums or an email distribution list.

 

For geocaching events that involve several components, such as a day-long group cache hunt that also involves a seminar and dinner, only a single event cache covering all components should be submitted.

 

Event caches should be submitted no less than two weeks prior to the date of the event, so that potential attendees will have sufficient notice to make their plans. Events are generally listed no more than three months prior to the date of the event, to avoid having the listing appear for a prolonged period of time on the nearest caches page and in the weekly e-mail notification of new caches. Exceptions are sometimes made for events that are designed to attract a regional, national or international group of geocachers. Contact your reviewer if you wish to set up such an event, which may be listed up to six months in advance.

 

And that was a violation of guidelines. Tosmith is not a cacher, or at least has not demosrated that he/she is, since so far the only caching done was for commercial purposes.

 

El Diablo

Permission from Groundspeak trumps everything. Relax, no one was hurt and no one died. Its a game for gods sake.

Link to comment

Lap, read my above post. I have no problem with the event, just the decptive nature of it. Like I said, had they have been up front as to what it really was, more people would have attended. Most cachers don't attend workshops as this one was billed. On the other hand, people don't like being deceived.

 

I also support any company that supports Groundspeak, as would most members. Just tell people what to expect.

 

El Diablo

Link to comment
The REI GPS HUNT GAME Cache is open from August 12th thru September 16th.

 

This really stinks. We are bombarded by advertising 24/7/365. Radio, TV, Newspaper, and even driving down the highway.

 

Guess I'll never purchase a Magellan or shop at REI.

Jeremy has already said that the event at REI may have been approved under misleading information, so I think that's a moot point.

 

However, why on earth was a cache approved that's only going to be available for a month???? :lol:

Link to comment
The REI GPS HUNT GAME Cache is open from August 12th thru September 16th. 

 

This really stinks.  We are bombarded by advertising 24/7/365.  Radio, TV, Newspaper, and even driving down the highway. 

 

Guess I'll never purchase a Magellan or shop at REI.

Gee, a temp cache to boot! Stuff like this (along with REI's prices) will keep me from their stores as well.

If one really is upset by this why direct the backlash at REI or Magellan? Direct it at the source that allowed it, Groundspeak.

 

From what we know at this point this was approved by Groundspeak, its their site they get to do that. From time to time they do make exceptions and handle placement of some caches differently.

How so?

Since El Diablo already quoted the event guidelines, I won't bother to do it again, but where does that event violate any of them?

The geocaching event is organized by geocachers, and the primary attendees will all be geocachers. Heck, as far as the wedding portion of the event goes (about 10 minutes out of a 2 day event) the minister is a geocacher, the photographer is a geocacher, the wedding favors are geocaching-related and provided by a geocacher, and various other related services are being provided by geocachers. This event is probably MORE geocaching related then 95 out of 100 other events.

The geocaching event itself is your typical weekend camping geo-event. Food, cache hunting, camping, paddling, the usual New England event. If anyone cares to hang out for the wedding ceremony afterward, cool.

So GJ, will you be attending? :lol:

Link to comment
The REI GPS HUNT GAME Cache is open from August 12th thru September 16th. 

 

This really stinks.  We are bombarded by advertising 24/7/365.  Radio, TV, Newspaper, and even driving down the highway. 

 

Guess I'll never purchase a Magellan or shop at REI.

Jeremy has already said that the event at REI may have been approved under misleading information, so I think that's a moot point.

 

However, why on earth was a cache approved that's only going to be available for a month???? :lol:

That falls under the commercial cache guidelines. As Lap has pointed out, GC can make exceptions for those, much like the Planet of Apes caches.

 

El Diablo

Link to comment

I saw this listed a while back while doing a "Newest in California" search. I wanted to comment on it then, since anything "FREE" usually has a string attached. Due to distance, I wasn't planning on attending so I ignored it.

 

The active veteran cachers showed restraint and posted diplomatic logs for the "event". :lol:

 

This one was definitely in the grey. It would be nice in the future to make the intent for "events" like these clearer, since there are people who'll still be interested. No qualms about REI since they were mentioned, and they provided the facilities.

 

As for the Magellan eXplorist series, they need a model with PC connection AND standard AA batteries. Otherwise, no amount of promotion is going to convince me to buy one. :lol:

Link to comment

It appears that some people posting here failed to read the comments from Jeremy-

 

If the person that submitted the event for approval submitted it as a geocaching seminar, and it truly was nothing more that a magellan sales pitch, then it is the person that lied to the Groundspeak representative that is in the wrong, not Groundspeak.

 

If they did lie, then it IS against the guidelines, even if Groundspeak approved it.

 

Groundspeak approved a geocaching seminar, not a sales presentation.

Link to comment
The REI GPS HUNT GAME Cache is open from August 12th thru September 16th. 

 

This really stinks.  We are bombarded by advertising 24/7/365.  Radio, TV, Newspaper, and even driving down the highway. 

 

Guess I'll never purchase a Magellan or shop at REI.

Why do they give lat/long and the address? If you can find an ammo can in the woods with a GPSr then a building with a large sign out front should be no problem.

 

 

Edited: to correct for speeling.

Edited by Glenn
Link to comment

I approved this cache.

 

It was my understanding that it was to be a clinic for geocaching and that they would be giving away some Magellan door prizes. I was unaware that it would be used as a blatent 1 hour advertisement for Magellan. I will be having a following conversation with the REI rep to find out what really happened. If in fact it was the advertisement that people compain about, future requests will be treated with much greater scrutiny. If, however, they just used the units to illustrate geocaching, then I am not sure that harm has been done.

 

Now, I will be spending the rest of the weekend with my wife since it is our first anniversary. So, please give me some time to follow up. Thanks.

Link to comment
I approved this cache.

 

It was my understanding that it was to be a clinic for geocaching and that they would be giving away some Magellan door prizes. I was unaware that it would be used as a blatent 1 hour advertisement for Magellan. I will be having a following conversation with the REI rep to find out what really happened. If in fact it was the advertisement that people compain about, future requests will be treated with much greater scrutiny. If, however, they just used the units to illustrate geocaching, then I am not sure that harm has been done.

 

Now, I will be spending the rest of the weekend with my wife since it is our first anniversary. So, please give me some time to follow up. Thanks.

Unless you were there you do not know that it was a magellan sales pitch. Lets say magellan donated a bunch of explorist for the seminar, would you expect Garmin to be covered if Garmin decided not to be part of this event, if you would expect that it is time to open your eyes to the real world of bussiness.

 

I was unaware that it would be used as a blatent 1 hour advertisement for Magellan.

 

Pretty much everyone posting here that they are outraged at the comercial nature of the event were not there, as such they do not have any idea was covered.

 

As I said before, you can not give a geocaching seminar without cover the functions of the GPSr that can be used for geocaching, Maybe Garmin needs to step up to the plate an do something for the geocaching community other the help geocachers spend their money.

Link to comment

Put the torches down now - wait for another response from Rothstafari.

 

Nothing to see here.

 

Personally, I don't have a problem with commercial caches if they are identified like mentioned above "Groundspeak is aware of the commercial nature of this cache and/or event and it has been approved with special permission".

 

That being said, it appears that what was presented and what actually occured were two different things - why direct backlash at Groundspeak?

 

Anyway, back to my orignal response "wait for another response from Rothstafari."

Link to comment
I approved this cache. 

 

It was my understanding that it was to be a clinic for geocaching and that they would be giving away some Magellan door prizes.  I was unaware that it would be used as a blatent 1 hour advertisement for Magellan.  I will be having a following conversation with the REI rep to find out what really happened.  If in fact it was the advertisement that people compain about, future requests will be treated with much greater scrutiny.  If, however, they just used the units to illustrate geocaching, then I am not sure that harm has been done. 

 

Now, I will be spending the rest of the weekend with my wife since it is our first anniversary.  So, please give me some time to follow up.  Thanks.

Happy anniversary!

 

While you're following up, please let us know who approved REI GPS Hunt Game . This one also seems to be commerical, even including REI's name in the cache name. It's also a clear exception to the cache permanence guidelines:

When you report a cache on the Geocaching.com web site, geocachers should (and will) expect the cache to be there for a realistic and extended period of time. Therefore, caches that have the goal to move (“traveling caches”), or temporary caches (caches hidden for less than 3 months or for events) most likely will not be listed...

Groundspeak makes the guidelines and Groundspeak can make exceptions to the guidelines as they choose, but I'm offended by "bait and switch". If commercial caches are going to be approved, please label them as such.

 

Might I suggest a new cache icon in these cases: "$"

Link to comment
The REI GPS HUNT GAME Cache is open from August 12th thru September 16th. 

 

This really stinks.  We are bombarded by advertising 24/7/365.  Radio, TV, Newspaper, and even driving down the highway. 

 

Guess I'll never purchase a Magellan or shop at REI.

Gee, a temp cache to boot! Stuff like this (along with REI's prices) will keep me from their stores as well.

If one really is upset by this why direct the backlash at REI or Magellan? Direct it at the source that allowed it, Groundspeak.

 

From what we know at this point this was approved by Groundspeak, its their site they get to do that. From time to time they do make exceptions and handle placement of some caches differently.

How so?

Since El Diablo already quoted the event guidelines, I won't bother to do it again, but where does that event violate any of them?

The geocaching event is organized by geocachers, and the primary attendees will all be geocachers. Heck, as far as the wedding portion of the event goes (about 10 minutes out of a 2 day event) the minister is a geocacher, the photographer is a geocacher, the wedding favors are geocaching-related and provided by a geocacher, and various other related services are being provided by geocachers. This event is probably MORE geocaching related then 95 out of 100 other events.

The geocaching event itself is your typical weekend camping geo-event. Food, cache hunting, camping, paddling, the usual New England event. If anyone cares to hang out for the wedding ceremony afterward, cool.

So GJ, will you be attending? :lol:

Well there was the vanity cache number -- GCMOHO.

 

And it was allowed to be posted well in advance of normal events.

 

Hey you know me I really don't care. But you are certainly one that many times have said it is gc.com's site they can do what they want with it. If they want to make these or any other types of exceptions that's fine. But don't get upset when they make other types of exceptions. It may turn out that there may have been some other issues that need to be checked into, that is a whole other set of problems.

 

Your event is no doubt a valid geocaching event. But I don't think you can deny that some excetions and special handling of the event occurred. Again that is OK as far as that goes. I don't think I would be given such consideration, but I don't know for sure I have never asked.

 

Will I be attending? No, but thanks for asking. We have had our disagrements, oh and the one or two times we have agreed. But in any event I did not want the first time we met to be at your wedding. It is your and your wife's to be special day. We are going to have to save that for when it would be a better time for us to take our jabs at each other, get mad at each other, shake our heads at each other, shake hands, have a laugh and and a beer. I do really wish you both well and hope your event is special and lots of fun for you, your wife and all your guests.

Link to comment
While you're following up, please let us know who approved REI GPS Hunt Game .  This one also seems to be commerical, even including REI's name in the cache name.  It's also a clear exception to the cache permanence guidelines:

Bryan from Groundspeak approved that one too. He can do that. The guidelines says he can.

 

Nothing to see here. Move along.

For those that are not aware.

 

Bryan = Rothstafari

Link to comment
Well there was the vanity cache number -- GCMOHO.

 

And it was allowed to be posted well in advance of normal events.

Just to clarify:

The vanity cache ID is because some nice people allowed us to "adopt" that cache before it had any finds.

The GC number dates back many months, but it wasn't listed until July 31, 2005; less then 2 months before the event and well within the guidelines.

 

Hey you know me I really don't care. But you are certainly one that many times have said it is gc.com's site they can do what they want with it. If they want to make these or any other types of exceptions that's fine. But don't get upset when they make other types of exceptions. It may turn out that there may have been some other issues that need to be checked into, that is a whole other set of problems.

 

Your event is no doubt a valid geocaching event. But I don't think you can deny that some excetions and special handling of the event occurred. Again that is OK as far as that goes. I don't think I would be given such consideration, but I don't know for sure I have never asked.

 

 

It IS their site, and they CAN do what they want. However, it's still not clear if the event and the temp cache are what THEY agreed to. That will remain to be seen (PS: Happy anniversary Bryan and Heidi!). I still don't have to like the cache, just like I don't have to like every other cache listed. Notice I didn't say anything about archiving them; just that I personally don't like it.

 

Will I be attending? No, but thanks for asking. We have had our disagrements, oh and the one or two times we have agreed. But in any event I did not want the first time we met to be at your wedding. It is your and your wife's to be special day. We are going to have to save that for when it would be a better time for us to take our jabs at each other, get mad at each other, shake our heads at each other, shake hands, have a laugh and and a beer. I do really wish you both well and hope your event is special and lots of fun for you, your wife and all your guests

No problemo. Next time I'm down that way I'll be sure to let ya know. Winner of the next argument gets to buy the beer!

Edited by Mopar
Link to comment
Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.
Followers 4
×
×
  • Create New...