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The First "no Members" Cache


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I enjoy British humour.

For heaven's sake, don't spell it with a "u". It only encourages them to use up more of the earth's dwindling supply of precious vowels.

I think we can pin the blame on the Hawaiians for the worldwide vowel shortage. Heiau? Kamapua'a? Humuhumunukunukua? Ôlelo No`eau? :):o

 

Okay, back on topic. I think it's a silly idea, but it meets the listing guidelines (in my opinion, moreso than WH's controversial cache, which I also thought was fine...as long as it wasn't sitting on the top of MY nearest caches list ;) ).

 

On the other hand, a cache like this in my neighborhood would only encourage me to start placing literally dozens of MOC's just to keep this guy busy and hold him to his word.

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I guess I just don't understand how non-member caches (or any other logging requirements) will "decrease the number of paying members."

Hi

 

I don't think that was his or her's point. If you read the translation, it appers to be a reaction to someone placing a members' only cache in his area.

 

Regards

Andrew

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The problem that I see is that there are more and more caches with special logging requirements. E.g. a cache there you have to take a photo of yourself under a special kind of shower located located close to the cache box and post it with the log.

Can I hide a cache that can be logged only then the cacher prooves that he is owner of a Renault car and uses this car to go to the cache? Or a cache that may only be logged if the cacher colors his hair green and takes a photo of the cache and his green hair?

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Can I hide a cache that can be logged only then the cacher prooves that he is owner of a Renault car and uses this car to go to the cache? Or a cache that may only be logged if the cacher colors his hair green and takes a photo of the cache and his green hair?

I don't see why not.

 

Just don't expect too many people to be thrilled that you did.

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I have only been caching for about the past 3 weeks or so and really do get a chuckle out of the mentality of a lot of cachers. I think it's so funny that sooooooo many people care about getting "credit" for logs and numbers and so forth. If you go to the cache and sign the log, haven't you acomplished finding the cache? My intuition would say "yes". If somebody wants to make people stand on their heads for an hour and get a picture of them doing so with a GPS in their hand that's their perogotive, but I would suspect that there will be many more paper logs than e-logs. I think the most fascinating logs I have had the fortune to come accross are the ones by people that know nothing about this game or GC.com, but still participate in the game by entering a log, and for the caches that have an instruction page, sometimes they even participate per the instructions. If you find it, paper log it, e-log it, write your second grade teacher and tell her about it if you want. I doub't a cache owner is going to police his/her paper logs and tear out logs by members or non-members. Remember why we are participating in this sport in the first place.

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I have only been caching for about the past 3 weeks or so and really do get a chuckle out of the mentality of a lot of cachers. I think it's so funny that sooooooo many people care about getting "credit" for logs and numbers and so forth. If you go to the cache and sign the log, haven't you acomplished finding the cache?

It's not about the numbers. Many people like to keep track of their caching activities using the online log. I logs are deleted indiscriminately they are missing in this online activity protocol.

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You did write something a bit funny and your English usage was correct as well. I just had to chuckle because your reply hits at the heart of my initial post. Why EXACTLY do you participate in this game/sport/activity? If one participates soley for the e-log and e-log only then I would bet those personality types will eventually become tired with this sport. Besides, there are many ways to log your activities while caching. Personally I keep a personal log journal. Its good old fashioned paper and pen writing and I also do the e-logs. Who cares if I get my e-log deleted. I have still found the cache and nobody can take that away from me. Individuality is going to happen in any sport/persuit and that's the beauty of life in my opinion. If the cacher wants to delete some logs, who cares? He is only going to devalue the richness of his cache in the long run. Just my .02 worth.

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I'm just glad that WH listened to how his cache affected other cachers and worked with that. I hope that this cacher in Germany, sees that he is causeing more of a riff in the sport than he may want, that is based on world wide opinions.

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I think I will hide a cache with no coordinates. Also, there will be no hints to where it is. You will be able to post that you found it but you cant post that you didnt find it. If you have red hair you can post a note for the cache but if your bald you cannot view the hint. IF your a premium member you can email me for the location but I will not answer, unless you know the secret password. You can only post a found it note between 8 am and 8:01 am on the second blue moon after the smurf has been born.

 

:o;)

 

I'm going caching..........

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I think it stinks. The point of this sport is to find caches and the idea that an owner would make you jump through hoops just so you can report your legitimate find is silly.

 

It would annoy me if he deleted my find, not because of the numbers, but because my find logs are my only written record of my hunt. I sometimes enjoy going back through my logs and rekindling memories of certain hunts. The thought that a cache owner would deny me this because I wasn't wearing red shoelaces, or didn't have my left pant leg rolled up when I found the cache really galls me.

 

That being said we all have the option to ignore this cache and its within the owner's rights to implement whatever logging requirements he wants, no matter how stupid.

 

There's no specific guideline to exclude a listing (or logging requirement), so for now we'll take a wait and see approach, just like with the "no smiley face" approach for logging on the other listing.

 

I'd disagree with a change in the guidelines to regulate logging requirements. Let these small minded people put whatever restrictions they want on their caches and the rest of us can ignore them.

 

As a cache owner myself, I believe the point of this sport is for people to find my caches. I don't believe I should make them dance the juba before logging their find but if other owners feel differently, that's their prerogative. They probably won't win the 'most popular' award at the next local event, but I suspect people like that really aren't interested in being one of the boys anyway.

Edited by briansnat
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Well it's been a busy day at work and I'm just peeking in the forums to see what fun I missed today. This is just another example of envelope pushing for its own sake. I'm kinda surprised that no one hasn't already suggested this, but I just posted a DNF log on the cache. My understanding of German is a little fuzzy- but I read the cache description to say no premium members can find his cache and I didn't. Here's my log, just in case he does delete it. :o:D:);):):D;)

Well I didn't find your cache today. I was busy at work until about 15 minutes ago. Now after a glass of wine, and something to eat I can have some fun in the forums. I saw the thread on your unique cache and it logging requirements. Personally I find any cache that excludes a certain segment of the caching population to be offensive, but hey-it's your cache and it does fit the guidelines of the website as they are currently written. There are already enough complaints about the restrictions on cache placement and finding, perhaps silly cache logging requirements like yours will just add more rules and guidelines, and create more unecessary work for the site admins and volunteer? Perhaps that is what you what to accomplish?

ANyway, just popped in to say I did not find your cache today because I am not in Berlin and because I chose to become a premium member to support the website that is providing me with so much entertainment and recreational activity. Cheers!

stir stir mix and stir.........
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Sounds alot like the controversy that erupted over my "Notes Only" cache (which has since been changed) in this thread and part deux here.

Yep, it does. And wasn't yours going to be archived for "promoting an anti-numbers" agenda? This one is promoting an "anti Premium Members" agenda, perhaps it should face the same fate?

Actually no, Jeremy said in this post that the cache could stay. I could've left it just the way it was. I VOLUNTARILY changed the cache description to what it current ly is.

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A bunch of people jumped up and down last week because a cache was posted that didn't meet the site guidelines - so it was archived. Fair enough.

 

Now a bunch of people are jumping up and down about another cache that has been posted that does meet the guidelines ... and the poor guy is getting smug DNFs posted on his cache because its doesn't fit a specific subset of the guidelines that have been discussed here. Personally, I think that's a bit rough, and doesn't conform to forum guidelines of respecting others and their opinions... regardless of whether these opinions happen to gel with yours or not.

 

If the point of the game is to not discriminate or disadvantage, should we also modify caches that require photos to include a GPSr in the shot? Is that discriminating against those cachers that don't use GPSrs ? <_< Should we modify all the underwater caches because not all cachers have a scuba licence? Where do you stop?

 

This cache appears to have been in response to a local situation, and in keeping with the local culture. As no guidelines have been broken, perhaps this thread should be closed - there should be nothing to discuss?? :huh:

 

Edit - typos.

Edited by Slider & Smurf
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radioscout, you made this here very biased and I'm very disapointed about it. You should have offered further informations about the situation in Germany and should have given a translation of the description, IMO.

 

The german comunity is in wide parts against MOCs, there have been several threads about this issue in the german subforum. Only a very small part of german cachers support them, some have no opinion and the big majority is against them.

 

So, one MOC popped out of the nowhere in Berlin some days ago. The No-Member-Cache (I'll call it Anti-MOC) is the reaction to this one and you can find in the description that the cache will be open to everybody as soon as the MOC is open to everybody. That means that Berlin will have two instead of one new cache as soon as the MOC isn't MO anymore. As long as it's a MOC, PMs will have one cache and non-PMs will have one. The description describes it as to keep in balance and I agree with that.

 

The description also says that there will be placed a Anti-MOC for each MOC in the area of Berlin. I would like to add that I will place an Anti-MOC too if a MOC pop up in "my" area as I don't like the GC community to be sepoerated into diffrent groups. I see us as a great comunity and we shouldn't draw any lines. I don't like requirements to log, but as soon as there are no requirments to log a former-MOC, there will be no requirements to log the Anti-MOC. I think it's a win-win situation right now for all the cachers: As soon as "MO" is lifted on the one cache, the non-MO will be lifted and everybody has two caches to hunt for.

 

And to answer your question: No, you haven't commited a crime but neither has anybody who hasn't paid.

 

And my I add in general regarding requirements to log a cache: I neither like that you have to place a Travelbug nor that you have to have a certain amount of finds nor that you have to pay for.

 

Greetings,

Tobias

Hi, i´m the one who placed the "No Members Please" Cache.

 

Only Tobsas understood the idea behind this Cache. Therefore i qoutet him, perhaps all others can get it too.

 

To all who put a dnf to the cache:

 

I will not delete these logs because its too funny see people screem out loud that didn´t see what the topic is.

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radioscout, you made this here very biased and I'm very disapointed about it. You should have offered further informations about the situation in Germany and should have given a translation of the description, IMO.

 

The german comunity is in wide parts against MOCs, there have been several threads about this issue in the german subforum. Only a very small part of german cachers support them, some have no opinion and the big majority is against them.

 

So, one MOC popped out of the nowhere in Berlin some days ago. The No-Member-Cache (I'll call it Anti-MOC) is the reaction to this one and you can find in the description that the cache will be open to everybody as soon as the MOC is open to everybody. That means that Berlin will have two instead of one new cache as soon as the MOC isn't MO anymore. As long as it's a MOC, PMs will have one cache and non-PMs will have one. The description describes it as to keep in balance and I agree with that.

 

The description also says that there will be placed a Anti-MOC for each MOC in the area of Berlin. I would like to add that I will place an Anti-MOC too if a MOC pop up in "my" area as I don't like the GC community to be sepoerated into diffrent groups. I see us as a great comunity and we shouldn't draw any lines. I don't like requirements to log, but as soon as there are no requirments to log a former-MOC, there will be no requirements to log the Anti-MOC. I think it's a win-win situation right now for all the cachers: As soon as "MO" is lifted on the one cache, the non-MO will be lifted and everybody has two caches to hunt for.

 

And to answer your question: No, you haven't commited a crime but neither has anybody who hasn't paid.

 

And my I add in general regarding requirements to log a cache: I neither like that you have to place a Travelbug nor that you have to have a certain amount of finds nor that you have to pay for.

 

Greetings,

Tobias

Hi, i´m the one who placed the "No Members Please" Cache.

 

Only Tobsas understood the idea behind this Cache. Therefore i qoutet him, perhaps all others can get it too.

 

To all who put a dnf to the cache:

 

I will not delete these logs because its too funny see people screem out loud that didn´t see what the topic is.

Dear Gernot90,

 

I suggest Berlin start it's own webpage (vs dragging this American site into your personal politics).

 

I served Germany in the US Army before the wall fell, and I remember those cold, soggy nights on East German Border Patrol in your name. I learned much. Firsthand. You owe me.

 

I've kept up with you since; don't think I haven't. I know the score between our countries. This paragraph has nothing to do with geocaching save this thread YOU started, so I invite you to email me. We have much to discuss.

 

As far as your listed cache on this site; IN MY OPINION: Take your political caches somewhere else. I have no use for them. At this political point in time you need to own up to your own problems. Americans have done all we can, and I for one won't be freely used to protect you further in your *hobby*. YOU own that problem. Play by *these* rules or play somewhere else. I've already done my part for your entire country, for serious reasons, and I played by the rules. In my American opinion, it's your turn.

 

You and yours don't want to make a contribution - moreover want to shut out those that DO? Fine. Take it somewhere else. (If my vote counted, the American military would do the same).

 

Thanks.

Edited by Spamiam
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Well it's been a busy day at work and I'm just peeking in the forums to see what fun I missed today. This is just another example of envelope pushing for its own sake. I'm kinda surprised that no one hasn't already suggested this, but I just posted a DNF log on the cache. My understanding of German is a little fuzzy- but I read the cache description to say no premium members can find his cache and I didn't. Here's my log, just in case he does delete it. <_<:huh::huh::huh:;):huh::P
Well I didn't find your cache today. I was busy at work until about 15 minutes ago. Now after a glass of wine, and something to eat I can have some fun in the forums. I saw the thread on your unique cache and it logging requirements. Personally I find any cache that excludes a certain segment of the caching population to be offensive, but hey-it's your cache and it does fit the guidelines of the website as they are currently written. There are already enough complaints about the restrictions on cache placement and finding, perhaps silly cache logging requirements like yours will just add more rules and guidelines, and create more unecessary work for the site admins and volunteer? Perhaps that is what you what to accomplish?

ANyway, just popped in to say I did not find your cache today because I am not in Berlin and because I chose to become a premium member to support the website that is providing me with so much entertainment and recreational activity. Cheers!

stir stir mix and stir.........

Actually, the cache page says that premium members cannot log the cache. That means that DNFs and notes are not allowed either. Just like with subscriber-only caches for non-subscribers.

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Sounds alot like the controversy that erupted over my "Notes Only" cache (which has since been changed) in this thread and part deux here.

Yep, it does. And wasn't yours going to be archived for "promoting an anti-numbers" agenda? This one is promoting an "anti Premium Members" agenda, perhaps it should face the same fate?

No, no. It's not anti-premium-member. If anything, it's anti-subscriber-only-caches.

 

A premium member can easily log the cache the following way: he convinces the owner of a nearby subscriber-only cache to remove the subscriber-only status from that cache. Then the owner of this cache will remove the nonmembers-only status of this cache and all premium members can log the cache from that point.

Edited by as77
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The thought that a cache owner would deny me this because I wasn't wearing red shoelaces, or didn't have my left pant leg rolled up when I found the cache really galls me.

Did you raise the same objection against subscriber-only caches?

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This thread is degenerating into personal attacks. If it continues I will start handing out warnings to those doing the attacking. There will not be a second chance. Stop the personal flames and attacks not or risk being moderated.

 

Thank you

CO Admin

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This thread is degenerating into personal attacks. If it continues I will start handing out warnings to those doing the attacking. There will not be a second chance. Stop the personal flames and attacks not or risk being moderated.

 

Thank you

CO Admin

Dear Co-Admin,

 

What is the status of this cache listing? Is it OK to cite caches specifically for non-members, and cut members out of the site listings? This is approved?

Edited by Spamiam
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Dear Co-Admin,

 

What is the status of this cache listing? Is it OK to cite caches specifically for non-members, and cut members out of the site listings? This is approved?

I'm not CO Admin but I can answer. Yes, it is approved and it is OK. BTW did you read this thread?

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There's no specific guideline to exclude a listing (or logging requirement), so for now we'll take a wait and see approach, just like with the "no smiley face" approach for logging on the other listing.

Jeremy seems to think it's OK. There's nothing stopping you from finding the cache - assuming you happen to be in Berlin - and logging your find in the log book. As everyone here seems so fond of saying ... it's not about the numbers!! So you shouldn't lose any sleep over it.

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Dear Co-Admin,

 

What is the status of this cache listing? Is it OK to cite caches specifically for non-members, and cut members out of the site listings? This is approved?

I'm not CO Admin but I can answer. Yes, it is approved and it is OK. BTW did you read this thread?

Yes. Did you?

 

I read German, too. Do you?

 

Hey, if you folks want to provide Berlin listings typed in German which cut out both premium and non-German reading members, who am I to argue? We all have our decisions to make.

 

You folks understand the *Reason* for this "first non-member" listing, right? Y'all *understood* the "15 miles of bad road" run through the translator prior to approval, right?

 

Just wanna see what page we're on and all.

Edited by Spamiam
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You folks understand the *Reason* for this "first non-member" listing, right? Y'all *understood* the "15 miles of bad road" run through the translator prior to approval, right?

 

Just wanna see what page we're on and all.

  • The local caching community generally agreed against posting MOCs.
  • Then someone came along and posted a MOC - despite the local community opinion ... nothing against the gc.com guidelines there.
  • Then Gernot90 posted a traditional cache with a caveat on the logging requirements in response ... nothing against the guidelines there either.

And it's in German because they reside in Germany ... you're not suggesting all foreign caches be listed in English, are you? Wouldn't that be discriminating against the foreign cachers that don't speak English?

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You folks understand the *Reason* for this "first non-member" listing, right? Y'all *understood* the "15 miles of bad road" run through the translator prior to approval, right?

 

Just wanna see what page we're on and all.


  •  
  • The local caching community generally agreed against posting MOCs.
     
  • Then someone came along and posted a MOC - despite the local community opinion ... nothing against the gc.com guidelines there.
     
  • Then Gernot90 posted a traditional cache with a caveat on the logging requirements in response ... nothing against the guidelines there either.
     

And it's in German because they reside in Germany ... you're not suggesting all foreign caches be listed in English, are you? Wouldn't that be discriminating against the foreign cachers that don't speak English?

As you can see from his posts here, this guy speaks perfectly adequate English. His "15 miles of bad road" are at your expense - and if you'll read his comments above you'll note he logged his laughter.

 

It's amazing to me that people who don't understand a word he typed are jumping up to defend his Berlin plant as "the first non-members-only cache" here.

 

In my opinion he should start his own site if members of this one aren't welcome, but that's just me.

 

As as alternative, maybe this site needs a new icon for "caches that site members aren't allowed to participate in". violin.gif

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@ Spamiam:

 

It´s not a political thing. No need to discuss about it.

Is it not? Then post a traditional cache. No problem.

It's not a political thing. I don't know what you think Gernot90 owes you, Spamiam, but just because you have have happened to shiver at East Germany border some time ago, doesn't make anyone obliged to play geocaching like you tell them to.

 

As for the cache in question itself, I don't agree with the concept. If I read a listing in GC.com, find a cache at the final coordinates and sign the log, that's what I call a find and that should be allowed to be logged online too. Make me jump, climb, crawl, calculate, think, swim etc. before I can find the cache, but if I eventually find it, do not make me jump through hoops afterwards, as it has nothing to do with finding the cache.

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This cache doesn't bother me. I haven't seen one person say turnabout is fair play. Correct me if I'm wrong.

 

One cache like this in an area would be a novelty. I'd post a note if the guy wasn't really being a jerk about it. More than one would be an annoyance.

 

I have no idea how the German Cachin' Community is, but I'd suspect that someone who gets their find deleted will just go back and TCLN. (Take Cache Leave Nuthin') I'm SURE that would happen here. Especially if the guy is making some high minded threat to hide more of the same. Problems like this tend to take care of themselves in geocaching....... Most peoples crap tolerance is pretty low.

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