Are We Allowed?

[+Team FUBAR]

I'm starting to see a trend in caches around my area. The first cache I saw like this really frustrated the hell out of me, untill I finally found it. And I think the reason I never found it was because I didn't think we were allowed to do it. I've since found 2 other ones that have been placed just like it. What the are doing is taking a tree branck and hollowing it out, then placing a micro in it. No big deal. But then they will drill a 1 or 2" hole IN A TREE to place the stick back into. It's hard as hell to find and I give them all credit on a good hide. But isn't that bad for the tree. I'm not a tree hugger of anyting but I'm afraid this stuff is gonna put a bad name for the sport, espicially if the parks and wildlife departments find that peopl are taking cordless drills out to drill into trees. Should i worry about this or no. Should I tell somebody about it. Looking for some advice.

[Max Cacher]

This is a bad thing please contact GC.com .

 

Tennessee Geocacher

[+Cherokeecacher]

If they do not want us digging in the dirt, I would assume they do not want us drilling into live trees.

 

Just my guess, and I agree that this/these caches need to be brought to the attention of the local approver(s).

[+cachew nut]

If the tree is dead then there is no harm. I've seen officials nail signs to live trees before, hard to believe no harm is being done, but the trees are still standing.

[+KoosKoos]

If the tree is dead then there is no harm. I've seen officials nail signs to live trees before, hard to believe no harm is being done, but the trees are still standing.

A few nails in a healthy tree won't hurt it as the tree will quickly seal the small spaces around the nail. (still not the best thing to do of course)

 

Drilling a hole large enough to support a "branch" might not kill a healthy tree, but it's not a good example for our community and isn't doing the tree any good.

 

But yes, a dead tree would be completely fair...well, ok, a devious hide, but no harm to the natural surroundings.

[+Hemlock]

Geocaching is supposed to be environmentally friendly. Drilling holes in trees is not. Even if its done in one case to a dead tree, it sets an example and someone else won't realize its a dead tree and will copy it with a live tree. I suggest sending an email about the cache to contact at geocaching dot com and they will take appropriate action, which probably means archiving the cache.

[+Team FUBAR]

Let me clarify. These are very much alive very healthy trees.

[+cachew nut]

Never mind.

Edited August 30, 2004 by cachew nut

[Keystone]

If these caches are in Ohio, you should also feel free to send me a message with the details so that I can look into this matter directly. Needless to say, if the cache page said anything about harming live trees at the time when the cache was submitted, it wouldn't have been listed.

 

There are plenty of ways to accomplish a hide of this type without drilling a hole. I know -- the ones I've hunted have frustrated me for a good long time.

[+Renegade Knight]

That's a new one. We face enough challenges with this RASH without making our own trouble. I hate new rules, this looks like a good candidate for a new rule though "No Digging also means no drilling into trees, phone poles, animals, or buildings "

[+Torry]

Echo here on the drilling rule.

 

Personally, I'd like to see it extended to include hiding caches in managed shrubbery and flower beds. I've seen some badly trampled hedges near some micros that I bet the groundskeepers were not happy to see.

[+Team FUBAR]

Sorry Guys I don't mean to make our life any more diffacult or add more rules but I thought this needed to be adressed before it creates a problem.

[+ironman114]

I've heard of this being done and it concerns me too, unless it is your land and trees

[+TotemLake]

Not trying to be a tree hugger here, but drilling holes into a healthy tree is not healthy for the tree. Think of it as drilling a hole into your arm. All kinds of bad things happen to you when you do that and rather rapidly. The tree may not die right away, but that side of the system will have been breeched and it will allow the introduction of insects, bacteria and fungus, any of which will certainly have the ability of killing that side of the tree... all the way to the top. It can take as little as a few weeks to a couple of years.

 

We're currently treating Elms here for Dutch Elm disease which is a fungus introduced by a small beetle burrowing into the bark into the tree's system. Once the fungus is introduced, no amount of treatment can stop it from killing the tree. The tree is considered a goner and removal is recommended.

Edited August 30, 2004 by TotemLake

[+briansnat]

A very bad idea that will get us in trouble with land managers. Maybe there should be an IQ test before people can hide a cache.

 

Note: the preceeding sentence was facetious. In no way do I support intelligence testing of geocachers as a prerequisite for hiding caches.

[Captain Chaoss]

"No Digging also means no drilling into trees, phone poles, animals, or buildings "

No animals ? But, that bloated deer along the highway was gonna be my most devious hide yet ! The ammo can could take it, and the the gas mask, rubber gloves, and coveralls woulda been special equipment. A true 5/5.

[+The Commissar!]

I have seen micros screwed to trees...would this newly modified guideline also prohibit this type of hide?

[+Planet]

BAD BAD BAD BAD BAD CACHERS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

Don't think nails are harmless to trees either. Did you know a copper nail will kill a tree?

 

SBA notes should be posted on all of these caches at once.

[+Anonymous']

I've thought about doing this type of cache but I remembered I like people to FIND my caches.

[+wimseyguy]

That's a new one.  We face enough challenges with this RASH without making our own trouble.  I hate new rules, this looks like a good candidate for a new rule though "No Digging also means no drilling into trees, phone poles, living or recently living animals, or buildings "

Adding an important bolded edit to RK's post.

[ju66l3r]

In no way do I support intelligence testing of geocachers as a prerequisite for hiding caches.

Of course you don't....

 

..because the other NJ cachers wouldn't want to spend all their time going out and recovering all of the caches you'd have left behind.

 

[adampierson]

I've come across a couple of these type of caches and for the most part, I don't have a problem with them. Drilling into a tree isn't going to harm a normal healthy tree. As far as making how this relates to burying a cache, it doesn't. If the PTB (Powers That Be) decide that this type of hide should be discouraged, then ADD THIS TO THE RULES. Those cache that already exist should be left alone and be grandfathered.

[+Renegade Knight]

That's a new one.  We face enough challenges with this RASH without making our own trouble.  I hate new rules, this looks like a good candidate for a new rule though "No Digging also means no drilling into trees, phone poles, living or recently living animals, or buildings "

Adding an important bolded edit to RK's post.

Good catch.

[+DiscGolfer]

I agree that drilling into a tree is wrong. I do however have a micro that is hidden in a tree in a naturally hollowed end of a branch stump with a natural object covering the hole. I think that kind of hide is acceptable but someone may come to the conclusion that the hole was artifically made and how would one defend the hide?

Edited August 31, 2004 by DiscGolfer

[+DavidMac]

Aside from concerns about damaging or killing the tree, there's another problem I've run into before- the tree will continue to grow as long as it's alive. If a cache isn't found for a month or two, the tree tissue could expand around the container and make it impossible to remove. If you've ever seen an old piece of barbed wire embedded an inch into the trunk of a tree after several years of growth, this is basically the same idea. While I have yet to see a cache in my area hidden by boring into live tissue, I've seen a micro hidden under a rock in the fork of a tree that actually got stuck when the tree began to grow around the rock (it hadn't been found in about 2 months).

[+TotemLake]

There is another problem too. The branch will get old and can fall out at the most inappropriate time with the possibility of causing injury.

[+TotemLake]

Drilling into a tree isn't going to harm a normal healthy tree.

Wrong and misinformed. I spoke with my sister on this, a certified arborist. She also came up with the issue of dead wood falling on people and considered it a generally bad idea... clever... but bad.

 

==edited for spelling==

Edited August 31, 2004 by TotemLake

[+Team FUBAR]

I agree that a pre-exhisting hole is ok to hide in. But this is clear that somebody took a cordless drill out into this park and drilled out the trunk of the tree. It's bad enuf to drill into a live tree, but to walk around a park in this day and age with a cordless drill. That's just asking for trouble. I think this should be added to the rules, but I also thnk people should have thought of that before they made a big hole. I mean come on this sport is all about nature and things that are good for the inviroment like CITO. Not destruction.

[+JohnnyVegas]

I'm starting to see a trend in caches around my area. The first cache I saw like this really frustrated the hell out of me, untill I finally found it. And I think the reason I never found it was because I didn't think we were allowed to do it. I've since found 2 other ones that have been placed just like it. What the are doing is taking a tree branck and hollowing it out, then placing a micro in it. No big deal. But then they will drill a 1 or 2" hole IN A TREE to place the stick back into. It's hard as hell to find and I give them all credit on a good hide. But isn't that bad for the tree. I'm not a tree hugger of anyting but I'm afraid this stuff is gonna put a bad name for the sport, espicially if the parks and wildlife departments find that peopl are taking cordless drills out to drill into trees. Should i worry about this or no. Should I tell somebody about it. Looking for some advice.

Sounds like a cache that would be hidden by a dumb a**. These caches should be archived.

[+SeventhSon]

There is another problem too. The branch will get old and can fall out at the most inappropriate time with the possibility of causing injury.

But if the road runner was standing under the branch and the coyote was on the other side of the tree, the tree would fall on the coyote and the branch would hang in mid-air and the cache would roll away with the word ACME on the side.

 

7

[+Midway Cafe]

I knew that I had seen something like this posted on the forums before, it just took a minute to find it.

 

ThumbKin

 

Not good if the tree is alive, it will lead to problems for the sport. There is always the remote possibility of harm coming to the tree from a drill hole ( How many Maple Trees are murdered each year? ). If the tree is dead and you use an exsisting natural hole, I don't have a problem with it.

 

MC

 

Edited to add- If ThumbKin falls on you and get hurt by it, you should probably avoid Geocaching in the future.

Edited August 31, 2004 by Midway Cafe