Can You Put A Cache On The Back Of A Street Sign?

[+Milbank]

Could I take a magnetic key holder and place it on the back of a street sign for a cache?

 

How about placing one on a street light, fire hydrant, water tower?

Edited June 22, 2004 by Milbank

[+DeskJocky]

Could I take a magnetic key holder and place it on the back of a street sign for a cache?

 

How about placing one on a street light, fire hydrant, water tower?

I would not recommend putting one on a water tower. The rest, yea, they could be done. But why?

[+greengolftee87]

i have one Yield

[+briansnat]

Might not last very long unless its very well camoflaged.

[+Milbank]

greengolftee87,

Cool, thanks for the link.

 

I would not recommend putting one on a water tower.

 

It would be at the base (ground level) if place on a water tower.

 

But why?

 

Because I can

 

It would be part of a multi.

 

 

Might not last very long unless its very well camoflaged.

 

I would paint it the same color that the back of the sign was.

Edited June 22, 2004 by Milbank

[+AmishHacker]

I have one at the base of a water tower. It is on public ground with NO FENCE. I would not recommend putting it on a sign. I would hate for a cacher to be looking for the cache and stepping in front of a important sign and causing an accident. I also would stay away from fire hydrants.

[+Milbank]

I would not recommend putting it on a sign. I would hate for a cacher to be looking for the cache and stepping in front of a important sign and causing an accident. I also would stay away from fire hydrants.

 

 

Yes, after second thoughts a fire hydrant is probly not a good idea.

 

I would only place it on a street sign were this is very little or no traffic.

 

I would also not place it on a important street sign like a stop sign. I was thinking something like a park sign or way side rest area sign.

 

There are a lot of road in South Dakota like that.

Edited June 22, 2004 by Milbank

[+jeff35080]

FWIW, many street signs are an aluminum alloy and thus you couldn't use a magnetic container to attach it to the sign.

[+rusty_tlc]

.. unless its very well camoflaged.

And it moved around a lot.

Stop and Go, Go, Go

[mortonfox]

I've seen some street signs used as stages in a multi-cache. In that case, the coordinates were simply written on the back of the sign in marker.

[+jeff35080]

In that case, the coordinates were simply written on the back of the sign in marker.

 

Hmmm.... should I catch you doing that here in the great State of Alabama, I would have to charge you with a crime ~ Criminal Mischief - Third Degree:

 

Section 13A-7-23

Criminal mischief in the third degree.

(a) A person commits the crime of criminal mischief in the third degree if, with intent to damage property, and having no right to do so or any reasonable ground to believe that he or she has such a right, he or she inflicts damages to property in an amount not exceeding five hundred dollars ($500).

 

(b ) Criminal mischief in the third degree is a Class B misdemeanor.

 

(Acts 1977, No. 607, p. 812, §2707; Act 2003-355, §1.)

 

Now, what are the odds of actually being charged with a crime for defacing a street sign? Probably none unless you are caught in the act, but the point is that I can't see Groundspeak endorsing the defacing of public property in this manner.

[+Destitute]

I would also not place it on a important street sign like a stop sign. I was thinking something like a park sign or way side rest area sign.

 

Actually, that's what came to my mnd when I read the first post. I was using common sense, not really sure why......

 

A local cacher used a magnetic reflector on a bike trail sign. Its always funny to see a cache out in plain sight. Its like an inside joke.

[+Rogue_monkey]

for the street sign idea search for a forum about cool cache containers. there's a thread in there with a guy that put one on a sign, it was a bolt he drilled out and attached the nut to the end, pretty easy to make if have the tools or acces to them. chech out that thread there's some good stuff in there

[+The Jester]

Section 13A-7-23

Criminal mischief in the third degree.

(a) ... with intent to damage property, ...

 

(Acts 1977, No. 607, p. 812, §2707; Act 2003-355, §1.)

 

That's the crux - proving intent to damage. The front yes, the back ??

 

In Renton, WA every street sign has a big sticker on the back that has ID & date numbers punched out. I've used those as numberic clues for a multi. Just check to make sure they don't replace/change the sign!

[+jeff35080]

In Renton, WA every street sign has a big sticker on the back that has ID & date numbers punched out.

 

Yep, the same here and most that don't have a sticker have a stenciled number that usually consists of the date. However, you didn't quote this part of my reply:

 

A person commits the crime of criminal mischief in the third degree if, with intent to damage property, and having no right to do so

 

The govermental agency that is responsible for placing and maintaining the signage does have the right to deface the signage.

 

Like I said, the odds of anyone being charge with a similar offense are probably slim, but why risk going to jail over writing-on/defacing a sign? Yes, I know you can write the info in small letters/numbers, but vandalism in any form would probably not be condoned by Groundspeak or the volunteer approvers.

 

Would I charge you with this crime? Probably not, but I would be forced to if a citizen (muggle) filed a complaint of this activity and I was able to determine who actually did the vandalism. Please bear in mind that I'm only playing Devil's advocate here and making an attempt to keep anyone from finding themselves in an uncomfortable situation. Happy geocaching!

[mortonfox]

Yes, I know you can write the info in small letters/numbers, but vandalism in any form would probably not be condoned by Groundspeak or the volunteer approvers.

Do the approvers currently ask the placers of multicaches how the coordinates for intermediate stages are provided? If they don't, they might be missing some techniques that cross over into vandalism. With some of the creativity I've seen and enjoyed out there, we can't assume that intermediate stages are always a slip of paper in a film canister.

Edited June 23, 2004 by stayfloopy

[+The Jester]

Oops, sorry. I didn't make it clear that the two parts were unrelated. Proving/not proving intent to damage is a great field for lawyers to work in...

[+JMBella]

Why not take it one step further and make your own sign. You can get really creative that way. Hmmm.... I just gave myself an idea. I'll be going to Home Depot and a sign company tomorrow. The possibilities are endless.

[+jeff35080]

If they don't, they might be missing some techniques that cross over into vandalism.

 

I once again state that I was merely playing Devil's advocate. Personally i.e. non-professionally, it doesn't bother me if you take a Sharpie or similar writing instrument and write Kilroy Wuz Here on the back of a stop-sign, yield-sign or speed limit sign. I was simply stating that by doing so you may be breaking a law and thus could potentially find yourself in an uncomfortable situation.

 

By stating in a public forum that you have done this in the past, you have provided evidence that you have vandalized public property should you ever be caught doing so in the future thereby giving an over-zealous prosectutor more ammunition to tell the judge/jury. Like I said, the odds are definitely against anyone ever catching you doing this and the odds are against you being prosecuted but it can and does happen. I was simply trying to offer some friendly advice from my professional point of view. Even though the approvers do not typically ask about the hiding methods of intermediate stages, I still feel quite sure that if Groundspeak or its representatives knew that public property was being defaced they would not allow the listing on their web site.

 

We're not talking about Criminal's 'Frisbee Rule' here. We are talking about the fact that you have admitted in a public forum that you have vandalized public property and it can be inferred that you are encouraging others to follow suit. 99% of everything you write in a forum such as this is archived and could one day come back to haunt you.

 

So, for the record, I was playing Devil's advocate and simply trying to let everyone understand that there could be pontential consequences for defacing public property such as signage which is placed by the government agencies responsible for the roadways were such signage is located.

 

Happy geocaching!

[+eddthejailer]

i am in indiana but i think i could fight that one in court the statute says in your quotes with the intent to damage and having no right to do so.i dont know about there but here that means you have to prove BOTH not just one.notice the damage and no right not or having no right.as for here even if cought writing numbers on the back of a street sign would get you looked at but not ticketed.just my 2 cents thrown in.

 

edited to say i wrote this before the above reply not trying to agg anythig on.i too was just being devils advocate.

Edited June 23, 2004 by eddthejailer

[+JMBella]

What about sticking numbers on a sign post? Is that vandalism? Cause I may or may not have done that.

 

edit: on more than one occasion.

Edited June 23, 2004 by JMBella

[+jeff35080]

Proving/not proving intent to damage is a great field for lawyers to work in...

 

Yep, you're right That's why they make 'the big bucks'. However, if you were standing in front of a judge and you were charged with vandalizing a sign owned by the goverment where you live with a permanent marker what do you think the judge will have to say about that?

 

I'll bet he'll find you guilty of a misdemeanor. Granted, that's no worse than a speeding ticket but it's still gonna cost you a few hundred dollars for the fine and court costs plus your time away from your job and/or family plus any additional monies you paid an attorney to defend you against such a charge.

 

Is there a difference between using a marker on a stop sign and spray painting coordinates on a bridge guardrail or on the roadway? Legally, at least in Alabama, there isn't and, in Alabama, you can be charged with a crime. Your local laws may vary from this.

 

I know this practice takes place as I have seen it myself. Just remember that 21 year-old rookie officer that is fresh out of the academy may not view the writing of coordinates on a public street sign the same as someone such as myself that has been duly sworn for almost 15 years. This young, rookie may well decide that you are just a common vandal and may decide to charge you with this crime.

 

A multi-cache isn't worth defacing public property and potentially finding yourself in an uncomfortable situation. Happy geocaching!

[mortonfox]

We're not talking about Criminal's 'Frisbee Rule' here. We are talking about the fact that you have admitted in a public forum that you have vandalized public property and it can be inferred that you are encouraging others to follow suit. 99% of everything you write in a forum such as this is archived and could one day come back to haunt you.

Actually, neither. It's just an observation that I made, and I've never used those techniques myself. However, I will heed your warning and not mention the caches that I was thinking of.

[+Cache Viking]

... fire hydrant, water tower?

I would leave any water facility alone because post 911 Tampering with any Water Facility is a Federal Offense! -- U.S. Code Title 42, Section 3001-1

[+Renegade Knight]

...  fire hydrant, water tower?

I would leave any water facility alone because post 911 Tampering with any Water Facility is a Federal Offense! -- U.S. Code Title 42, Section 3001-1

Speaking of water. Taking a leak on the sign is probably an offence as well.

 

I've always wondered about surveyors. If I take my spraypaint and paint cool triangles with strange numbers all around it it'd be in trouble if caught. If a surveyor does it, it's ok. I know what they are doing and why they are doing it, but I'm wondering where it becaome offically ok.

[+rusty_tlc]

 

...Taking a leak on the sign is probably an offence as well.

 

...

Off fence?

[PyroDave]

alot of times the survayers are working with or for a gov't agency so They would have primition i guess. Pluss alot of the marking paint is designed to wash away fairly quickly.

[+The Jester]

Pluss alot of the marking paint is designed to wash away fairly quickly.

I've been involved with an orginized bike ride for years. One of the things I do is paint 'dan henrys' (road markings) for the riders to follow. I've found that I can see the markings from last year (or earlier) as I'm doing new ones. I've gotten to the point now to put them down on top of the old ones as much as I can, so there is less 'litter' on the road. Some years we use spray chalk - that only lasts a couple of weeks - but few surveyors use it.

[CoyoteRed]

Yeah, and nowadays you are required by law to give your name to an officer when he requests it. It's a "public safety" issue.

 

...and a very dangerous precendent against personal freedom.

 

"Let me see your papers!"

[+Cache Viking]

...  fire hydrant, water tower?

I would leave any water facility alone because post 911 Tampering with any Water Facility is a Federal Offense! -- U.S. Code Title 42, Section 3001-1

Speaking of water. Taking a leak on the sign is probably an offence as well.

 

I've always wondered about surveyors. If I take my spraypaint and paint cool triangles with strange numbers all around it it'd be in trouble if caught. If a surveyor does it, it's ok. I know what they are doing and why they are doing it, but I'm wondering where it becaome offically ok.

The paints I now use when marking the road are all Chalk Based and do not last all that long to those I used 25 years ago.

[+wimseyguy]

Go right ahead and do it. Just act like a carpenter-think twice, hide once.

There are several very clever ones around here that do not deface any public property. My favorite used a small piece of velcro to hold a small clear plastic tube against the backside of the sign, in front of the post where it is well hidden from view (even if you are looking for it. )

 

There is also the Waypoint Series on the campus of Vanderbuilt U. that is hidden in 'plain sight' on signs.

[+joefrog]

I was simply trying to offer some friendly advice from my professional point of view.

Oh, phooey -- you just want FTF on it, admit it! "Coercion via uniform," LOL.

 

OTOH, I saw the most blatantly public hide I've ever seen on the back of a grocery store parking lot stop sign in Memphis. Seems to have been there a good long time, too!

[+Wacka]

I "found" (saw it but could not grab it) a cache that is magnetically atached to the pole that holds a stop sign and a do not enter sign back-to-back. The container is a black film canister with a white geocaching sign on it. It is in plain sight if you walk past the sign , but it is in the town square which makes it hard to grab during the day.

[+Robespierre]

  Go right ahead and do it. Just act like a carpenter-think twice, hide once.

There are several very clever ones around here that do not deface any public property. My favorite used a small piece of velcro to hold a small clear plastic tube against the backside of the sign, in front of the post where it is well hidden from view (even if you are looking for it. dry.gif )

 

Check the log for June 5: Sullivan’s Heroes by CapFantasy (GCHQ6W)

This was one wet, wet, magnetic key holder