Vandalism Or Helpful?

February 5, 2004

Yesterday I ran across another unmarked, unpainted ammo can while caching yesterday. I make sure all of my caches are repainted and have a fairly official looking decal on them. Several times now I've placed a CG.com decal (first image) on ammo cans and now I'm wondering if I did good.

...........

Am I vandalizing someones cache? I don't have permission but...is it out of line to better identify this mysterious box that says "50cal tracers" on it? I'm thinking about making a generic version of the second image to place on such caches. Let the opinions fly.

4k · February 5, 2004

I could go either way on this one.....I'm not sure I'd want anyone "modifying" my ammo box cache, especially if it could possibly ruin the camoflage by making it stand out more amongst the background. I think if you're going to do it, it's best to get the cache owner's permission first.

2.3k · February 5, 2004

Some will thank you, Some will curse you. You will never be 100% right or wrong.

1.8k · February 5, 2004

I would err onthe side of caution and leave the box alone. I might go as far as putting a geo-note inside the box if there isn't one, but altering the outside of the box may affect its cammoflage.

I'd get permission from the owner first.

February 5, 2004

We are near a military 'playground' here and I could just imagine the chaos if we labelled a squaddie's ammo box in his absence.

..... not that the military abandon them of course during their excercises !! :blink:

1.2k · February 5, 2004

I would put the decal IN the cache and email the owner to tell him/her it's there if they want to use it.

February 5, 2004

I could go either way on this one.....I'm not sure I'd want anyone "modifying" my ammo box cache, especially if it could possibly ruin the camoflage by making it stand out more amongst the background. I think if you're going to do it, it's best to get the cache owner's permission first.

I don't consider olive drab with yellow lettering camoflage by any stretch. (I'm in the south west) I call it straight out of the surplus store. Perhaps if the lettering were covered I wouldn't see it as a problem.

Thus far it appears to be "leave it alone". Interesting. Any considerations to post 9-11 awareness/concerns?

5.9k · February 5, 2004

If it doesn't belong to you, ask the owner first. JMHO

3k · February 5, 2004

I think you were wrong to modify the cache by applying a geocaching.com sticker. The cache is not your property. Your part in the game is to find the cache, sign the logbook, trade if you so desire, and rehide the cache.

There are many reasons the cache owner might have elected against using such a sticker. For example, the cache might be listed by more than one listing service and the cache owner doesn't wish to provide free advertising for any one listing service.

So I vote for "vandalism" even though your intentions were 'pure.'

4k · February 5, 2004

I could go either way on this one.....I'm not sure I'd want anyone "modifying" my ammo box cache, especially if it could possibly ruin the camoflage by making it stand out more amongst the background. I think if you're going to do it, it's best to get the cache owner's permission first.

I don't consider olive drab with yellow lettering camoflage by any stretch. (I'm in the south west) I call it straight out of the surplus store. Perhaps if the lettering were covered I wouldn't see it as a problem.

Thus far it appears to be "leave it alone". Interesting. Any considerations to post 9-11 awareness/concerns?

My apologies for that oversight in your original post. Even so, I still maintain that the cache owner should be contacted before making any changes to their container.

February 5, 2004

I have to agree with Criminal and BP.............. OH NO! :blink:

9.4k · February 5, 2004

I could go either way on this one.....I'm not sure I'd want anyone "modifying" my ammo box cache, especially if it could possibly ruin the camoflage by making it stand out more amongst the background. I think if you're going to do it, it's best to get the cache owner's permission first.

I don't consider olive drab with yellow lettering camoflage by any stretch. (I'm in the south west) I call it straight out of the surplus store. Perhaps if the lettering were covered I wouldn't see it as a problem.

Thus far it appears to be "leave it alone". Interesting. Any considerations to post 9-11 awareness/concerns?

Southwest? San Diego? It may be in the Southwest corner of the US, but California is on the West Coast, not part of the Southwest.

Maybe you could bring out some sandpaper to erase the yellow lettering and some spray paint to match the color of the ammo can to the bush it's hiding under :blink:

38.2k · February 5, 2004

I did it once to a cache that was near a playground. The cache was hidden by a newer geocacher, near a trail where muggles might find it and not understand the ".50 cal tracers" or whatever markings were on the side. I just happened to have an ammo box sticker with me and applied it. I told the owner that I did it and he was very thankful.

In retrospect, I wouldn't do it again without first asking the owner for permission. But I wish cache owners would have a little common sense and paint over, or sand off the military markings...especially for caches near high traffic areas.

Edited February 5, 2004 by briansnat

6.4k · February 5, 2004

Once again, I gotta agree with BrianSnat, even if that means I agree with Crim and BP as well. :blink:

February 5, 2004

Group point taken.

I'll still be bothered but I can probably shut off that anal-retentative part of my personality, at least temporarily. :blink:

6.4k · February 5, 2004

Group point taken.
I'll still be bothered but I can probably shut off that anal-retentative part of my personality, at least temporarily.

I don't blame ya. In a case like 'Snat mentioned, near a playground, I'd probably comment on it in my log, at least.

1.8k · February 5, 2004

I think hiding an ammo can without obliterating the original markings, then tossing it under a bush somewhere where it could be discovered easily is only a little bit above putting a slip of paper and a pencil in a film container and dropping it somewhere.

Thom says: "For a few bucks you can stop down at your local hardware store and pick up a can of primer and a can of green paint. You'll cover up the military markings so as to not freak out the geomuggles, and the cache will look a lot nicer as well. Plus, it's the first step in learning to paint cammo on your containers."

Edited February 5, 2004 by The Cheeseheads

February 5, 2004

At least if you mark it, no one will mistake an umarked cache for a bomb.. We had a parinoid farmer call in a suspecious looking, long, plastic, unmarked, tubular container that was near a telephone pole, that happened to be right next to the freeway. It cost the tax payers of Washington State a few bucks on that day. Edited February 5, 2004 by Hogarth

9.4k · February 5, 2004

At least if you mark it, no one will mistake an umarked cache for a bomb.. We had a parinoid farmer call in a suspecious looking, long, plastic, unmarked, tubular container that was near a telephone pole, that happened to be right next to the freeway. It cost the tax payers of Washington State a few bucks on that day.

Even marked containers can be confused for bombs. Otherwise, terrorists would only have to stencil "Not a bomb" on the side and everyone would ignore it

4k · February 5, 2004

At least if you mark it, no one will mistake an umarked cache for a bomb.. We had a parinoid farmer call in a suspecious looking, long, plastic, unmarked, tubular container that was near a telephone pole, that happened to be right next to the freeway. It cost the tax payers of Washington State a few bucks on that day.

Even marked containers can be confused for bombs. Otherwise, terrorists would only have to stencil "Not a bomb" on the side and everyone would ignore it

Hmmmm.......that gives me an idea......brb, going to the bank.

6.4k · February 5, 2004

[Even marked containers can be confused for bombs. Otherwise, terrorists would only have to stencil "Not a bomb" on the side and everyone would ignore it

True. Most of the caches I've heard about being blown up by bomb-squads have been tuperware style caches, not ammo cans. Still, I don't think it's a good idea to put ammo cans out there with the military markings still showing.

38.2k · February 5, 2004

Even marked containers can be confused for bombs. Otherwise, terrorists would only have to stencil "Not a bomb" on the side and everyone would ignore it

They can be, but it certainly reduces the chance of it happening if it's clearly marked as a geocache and has contact info on the outside....name, e-mail addr, phone number, whatever. The more info the better.

9.4k · February 5, 2004

[Even marked containers can be confused for bombs. Otherwise, terrorists would only have to stencil "Not a bomb" on the side and everyone would ignore it

True. Most of the caches I've heard about being blown up by bomb-squads have been tuperware style caches, not ammo cans. Still, I don't think it's a good idea to put ammo cans out there with the military markings still showing.

The first cache I heard about being blown up was in Las Vegas. It was a tupperware/rubbermaid type container. No military markings, and it was even translucent!

Either way, if the box doesn't contain "X" item, take "X" item off of the label!

February 5, 2004

We've found a couple which weren't marked up. We noted the fact in the logs. That's what the logs are for - communcation with the hider and other finders.

Cheers,

Stu

24.7k · February 5, 2004

To answer the question, technically it's vandalism.

They may thank you or may not. The cache may not be a GC.com exclusive cache and you might have put the wrong logo on it, when they want a Navicache Logo, etc. etc. etc.

To many variables to assume anything. I'm with Criminal on this one.

6.4k · February 5, 2004

The first cache I heard about being blown up was in Las Vegas. It was a tupperware/rubbermaid type container. No military markings, and it was even translucent!

Either way, if the box doesn't contain "X" item, take "X" item off of the label!

Well, I think this cache was an ammo can.

You mean I'm never gonna find any 50.cal ammo in these things? At $2 a round, I think they would make great trade items!

February 5, 2004

To answer the question, technically it's vandalism.

They may thank you or may not. The cache may not be a GC.com exclusive cache and you might have put the wrong logo on it, when they want a Navicache Logo, etc. etc. etc.

To many variables to assume anything. I'm with Criminal on this one.

Is this proper word being used here? Should this be considered vandalism or tagging?

Edited February 5, 2004 by Hogarth

February 5, 2004

You shouldn't change someone else's container. If you want, you could e-mail the owner and ask about adding a sticker ~before~ vandalizing their box.

-Bob

24.7k · February 5, 2004

... Is this proper word being used here? Should this be considered vandalism or tagging?

It's not the same as spray painting RR Boxcars. That's always vandalism.

Painting someones ammo can with logos may or may not be vandalism depending on how they feel about it. The entire point is that it could go either way and you just don't know until you ask.

It's a few notches removed from some of the other forms of cache maintance that most people appreciate. Like replacing a missing pencil, replacing a torn up zip lock with a fresh one for the log book, or even replacing unadorned bad glad ware with tupperware.

February 5, 2004

You mean I'm never gonna find any 50.cal ammo in these things? At $2 a round, I think they would make great trade items!

They're over $3 for a 690 gr armor piercing round. Very expensive trade item. But if your shooting a $2000 rifle, it's cheap in comparison.

I like to sand off the military specs on ammo cans and repaint them using dark brown camo paint. Then add a large sticker to the side and a small sticker on top. Not very labor intensive. This is a pic of how mine look after about 5 minutes work. I think everyone who uses ammo cans should at least do this. IMO

I would never do this to someone elses box without permission. It's not my job, it's the hiders.

Edited February 5, 2004 by Tiwica

6.4k · February 5, 2004

They're over $3 for a 690 gr armor piercing round. Very expensive trade item. But if your shooting a $2000 rifle, it's cheap in comparison.

You need to shop around better for your toys!

662-grain armor piercing .50 cal tracer for $1.33 a round. You even get the ammo can to use as a cache when you're done!

6.5k · February 5, 2004

I usually carry some high quality plastic fern and ivy leaves along with some 2 part epoxy so I can better camoflage all the ammo boxes I come across.

February 5, 2004

You need to shop around better for your toys!
662-grain armor piercing .50 cal tracer for $1.33 a round. You even get the ammo can to use as a cache when you're done!

I guess I do need to shop around. Thanks. I priced them at Cabela's. They want 189.95 for 50, and you only get a plastic ammo box. They used to offer the metal boxes free with bulk ammo, but now they sell those for; .50 cal $19.79 for four and .30 cal $19.79 for six.

1.3k · February 5, 2004

Here's a gentle suggestion to anyone reading this. Remove any old military markings from your surplus containers and ammo boxes before you use them as cache containers. This will help prevent them from being confused with containers of explosives and ammunition. In addition, labelling them as geocaches when possible will help even more.

If someone mistakes a geocache for a bomb or something similar, it reflects badly on geocachers as a whole, in addition to the person who hid it. Do yourself and us all a favor and take a few minutes to dress up your surplus containers a bit.

4.1k · February 6, 2004

If someone mistakes a geocache for a bomb or something similar, it reflects badly on geocachers as a whole, in addition to the person who hid it. Do yourself and us all a favor and take a few minutes to dress up your surplus containers a bit.

I have to disagree with this sentiment. Does it reflect badly on Ford if a bank robber uses one of their vehicles as the getaway car?

The only thing I would think is how paranoid is this country getting. Are people that afraid of everything they don't recognize?

As to the main topic, Please don't alter my camo paint job. I try to paint the container to resemble the surrounding area.

Just my outlook on things.

John

3.9k · February 6, 2004

I don't think I would mind the first image. It seams relatively small and as long as it doesn't ruin my camo job I'd be OK with it. Sometimes I forget to, or don't have a geosticker to put on.

February 6, 2004

I would put the decal IN the cache and email the owner to tell him/her it's there if they want to use it.

I think this is the best idea yet.

1.3k · February 6, 2004

If someone mistakes a geocache for a bomb or something similar, it reflects badly on geocachers as a whole, in addition to the person who hid it. Do yourself and us all a favor and take a few minutes to dress up your surplus containers a bit.

I have to disagree with this sentiment. Does it reflect badly on Ford if a bank robber uses one of their vehicles as the getaway car?

The only thing I would think is how paranoid is this country getting. Are people that afraid of everything they don't recognize?

As to the main topic, Please don't alter my camo paint job. I try to paint the container to resemble the surrounding area.

Just my outlook on things.

John

February 6, 2004

Some will thank you, Some will curse you. You will never be 100% right or wrong.

Sorta like being a "mod" huh CO!

4.1k · February 7, 2004

If someone mistakes a geocache for a bomb or something similar, it reflects badly on geocachers as a whole, in addition to the person who hid it. Do yourself and us all a favor and take a few minutes to dress up your surplus containers a bit.

I have to disagree with this sentiment. Does it reflect badly on Ford if a bank robber uses one of their vehicles as the getaway car?

The only thing I would think is how paranoid is this country getting. Are people that afraid of everything they don't recognize?

As to the main topic, Please don't alter my camo paint job. I try to paint the container to resemble the surrounding area.

Just my outlook on things.

John

Perhaps if I try an analogy for you.

Mister 'X' works for company 'Y'. Mister X shoplifts from his local store. This reflect very badly for Company 'Y' because Mister 'X' works for them!

NOT!

It reflects badly for Mister 'X' but not the people he works with.

John

1.3k · February 7, 2004

In practice, many negative stereotypes have formed around various demographic groups because of the actions of a few members of the group in question, rather than the actions of the entire group.

Let's try a different analogy.

A company produces tires. One of their tires fails, causing a driver to lose control of their vehicle and crash. Even if the tire that failed was only used on a specific type of vehicle, say SUV's, all of the tires that company produces will be viewed as poor quality products, even the ones used on compact cars.

4.1k · February 7, 2004

Does that mean all caches are bombs?

2.5k · February 7, 2004

2.7k · February 7, 2004

If someone mistakes a geocache for a bomb or something similar, it reflects badly on geocachers as a whole, in addition to the person who hid it. Do yourself and us all a favor and take a few minutes to dress up your surplus containers a bit.

I have to disagree with this sentiment. Does it reflect badly on Ford if a bank robber uses one of their vehicles as the getaway car?

The only thing I would think is how paranoid is this country getting. Are people that afraid of everything they don't recognize?

As to the main topic, Please don't alter my camo paint job. I try to paint the container to resemble the surrounding area.

Just my outlook on things.

John

Perhaps if I try an analogy for you.

Mister 'X' works for company 'Y'. Mister X shoplifts from his local store. This reflect very badly for Company 'Y' because Mister 'X' works for them!

NOT!

It reflects badly for Mister 'X' but not the people he works with.

John

Unless Mr. X is a cop. Then the headlines read "cop caught shoplifting". And people at the donut shop be thinking, "Those **** dirty, corrupt cops! Their all alike!"

2.7k · February 7, 2004

Does that mean all caches are bombs?

Only the "lame" ones.

("bomb" like "fail" get it?) hyuk hyuk hyuk

Oh, I kill me

2.7k · February 7, 2004

<snip>Any considerations to post 9-11 awareness/concerns?</snip>

Yeah.

People need to consider their own shadows aint terrorists and educate themselves about what "suspicious" means and quit calling in bomb scares for every piece of discarded trash they find in a place they shouldn't be lookin anyway.

Fat chance of that.

On the good side, these incidents seem to be getting less common.

Maybe there is SOME hope for common sense in a world where kids are kicked out of school for bringing a plastic knife to cut their birthday cake.

Maybe there is SOME hope for common sense in a world where kids are kicked out of school for taking a Tylenol® without giving it to the nurse (in the original unopened bottle) first.

Maybe their is SOME hope for common sense in a world where people are kicked out of school for pointing their finger at someone.

Maybe there is SOME hope for common sense in a world where kids are kicked out of school for drawing a picture of a rifle.

Maybe there is SOME hope for common sense in a world where people have to strip to get on an airplane, and leave their nail clippers at home.

Well, MAYBE!

9.4k · February 7, 2004

<snip>
Maybe there is SOME hope for common sense in a world where people have to strip to get on an airplane

<snip>

Well, except for the ones that have to pay for 2 seats, this isn't that bad of an idea

4k · February 7, 2004

Linyrd Skinyrd sums it up nicely:

(Paraphrased)

Why don't we dump all the people

To the bottom of the sea,

Before some fool comes around here,

And tries to shoot either you or me!

4.1k · February 7, 2004

Does that mean all caches are bombs?

Only the "lame" ones.

("bomb" like "fail" get it?) hyuk hyuk hyuk

Oh, I kill me

Good 'un...

Shirley~

4.1k · February 7, 2004

<snip>Any considerations to post 9-11 awareness/concerns?</snip>

Yeah.

People need to consider their own shadows aint terrorists and educate themselves about what "suspicious" means and quit calling in bomb scares for every piece of discarded trash they find in a place they shouldn't be lookin anyway.

Fat chance of that.

On the good side, these incidents seem to be getting less common.

Maybe there is SOME hope for common sense in a world where kids are kicked out of school for bringing a plastic knife to cut their birthday cake.

Maybe there is SOME hope for common sense in a world where kids are kicked out of school for taking a Tylenol® without giving it to the nurse (in the original unopened bottle) first.

Maybe their is SOME hope for common sense in a world where people are kicked out of school for pointing their finger at someone.

Maybe there is SOME hope for common sense in a world where kids are kicked out of school for drawing a picture of a rifle.

Maybe there is SOME hope for common sense in a world where people have to strip to get on an airplane, and leave their nail clippers at home.

Well, MAYBE!

Yah...Maybe...SOME....DAY...

Shirley~

Vandalism Or Helpful?

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