Simple Caches Boring?

January 20, 2004

I'm relatively new to geocaching, so assume what you want from that information. I have particpated in a few hunts with friends and family, but not under this account. I decided to place a simple, easy-to-find cache in my front yard. I live in a residential area in the middle of a decent sized town.

I've had a few comments from people that this cache is too easy and that there's no point. I realize that many caches involve puzzle-solving and hiking and beautiful vistas. But I also thought that a number of caches are still the kind that are simple item-trade, log-book caches, best for those who are new, have small kids, can't hike out into the woods, etc...

I designed this one for two things: the small challenge of navigating yourself through city streets with only a GPS and a set of coordinates, and the trading of some interesting trinkets. I realize this would be boring to experienced geocachers. And looking at the map would ruin the challenge of the first part.

So my question is this: Am I wasting everyone's time and attention? Is there a place for this kind of cache? I reworded my description to try to describe exactly what this cache is and is not. Comments are welcome. The cache is this:

GCHH2X or

http://www.geocaching.com/seek/cache_detai...2X&Submit6=Find

I already covered the issue of placing a cache in my own front yard a few days ago, so that's not what I'm asking about here. Thanks for any comments!

YodaDoe

P.S. Is there any way to change the map displayed on the listing? I'd like to get it zoomed out so the locations isn't TOO obvious. Sometimes the map loads with a citywide view, sometimes a more zoomed-in view... eh? <_<

Edited January 20, 2004 by YodaDoe

1.2k · January 20, 2004

I too made my first (and only) hide a very simple traditional. So far I have received only positvie feed back. I think as long as the description is good (which yours seems to be) people should be aware going into it that this cache is simple and not to expect a challenging hike or a mind bending puzzle cache.

I wouldn't say you are wasting time. The guys that feel the cache is beneath the should have read the description better and found a 5/5 instead.

5.9k · January 20, 2004

So my question is this: Am I wasting everyone's time and attention? Is there a place for this kind of cache?

No

Yes

4k · January 20, 2004

My first and only cache, is by my own words, lame. It's a rediculously simple park and grab. The first container I used for it was an old pickle jar with holes in the lid that my nieces used to catch fireflies last summer. It started with some really lame swag. I put it out as a test, just to see if cachers would bother coming out here for a cache. And ya know what? THEY DID!!! And everyone that has found it has left very positive feedback, too! So, in my opinion, any cache out there is worth finding to me. I may not be thrilled once I get there, but at least I get to look for one, and that's pretty much what it's all about to me, so I've never left any negative logs, and always thanked the owners for even placing a cache for me to find.

So, go for it! <_<

January 20, 2004

QUOTE
So my question is this: Am I wasting everyone's time and attention? Is there a place for this kind of cache?

No

Yes

Criminal is a man of few words, but he has said it all

January 20, 2004

It would only be lame if you had rated it higher; or described it as more than it is. Since you rated it 1/1, and you described it as a simple cache with no real point other than being a cache, then you've done what you needed to do. If someone feels like it is too simple, then they should not go after it! It's just that simple!

You place what you want to place -- and rate it accurately. Beyond that, it's up the the finder to decide if they want to go after it.

January 20, 2004

I also just placed my first 2 caches about 2 weeks ago. One is a micro, and the other is a traditional. Both have gotten positive feedback. Both are easy. I still have two more to hide, but haven't found a good spot yet. To me hiding a cache is almost as fun as finding one. <_<

3.9k · January 20, 2004

I don't' know who is saying there is no point, but there's is always a point. Don't listen to them. Just watch how many hits you get on that cache. It not always about a terrific view or a tough find. Just be sure to use a solid container (no pickle jars with holes in it <_< ), and some decent swag and the cachers will appreciate it.

Edited January 20, 2004 by JMBella

1.2k · January 20, 2004

I like simple caches because some evenings I don't have time for a long intense hunt. Sometimes I wanna just jump out of the car and get a quick find.

I think there is more than enough room in this community for park and grab finds and three day hike finds.

4k · January 20, 2004

Just be sure to use a solid container (no pickle jars with holes in it ), and some decent swag and the cachers will appreciate it.

I guess I should clarify....I have since upgraded to a standard tupperware container and better swag! <_<

3.9k · January 20, 2004

Just be sure to use a solid container (no pickle jars with holes in it ), and some decent swag and the cachers will appreciate it.

I guess I should clarify....I have since upgraded to a standard tupperware container and better swag!

I figured as much.

January 20, 2004

There are by far more simple 'lame' caches then difficult caches. But there are also more cachers that prefer these simple caches then the more difficult caches. Just look at the number of finds they get compaired to the more difficult caches. I prefer a difficult cache over the simple but I do seek the simple ones too. My 3 year old loves the simple ones. So there is a point to them.

January 20, 2004

Thanks for your input, folks.

I did add a few more comments to my description, stating explicitly that the cache is painfully easy. But the old description still said that it was a traditional item-trade, logbook cache. One person who found it yesterday was asking me what the point of it was, since it didn't involve hiking or any real challenge. So that's why I was second-guessing myself. I feel better now! Thanks again,

YodaDoe

January 20, 2004

keep in mind also that the "simple" 1-1 caches are great for Newbies to build up their geocaching skills on!! ( I know from personal experience!) so, that's a great reason for them to be there! <_<

January 20, 2004

I wouldnt consider it lame. Especially if you consider all the folks that cache with their kids. I take mine when I go and they are too little to go for anything with great difficulty. That being said when they find a 1/1 they think they are really doing something, I think these caches are fine.

3.8k · January 20, 2004

In your own words:

There's absolutely nothing special or challenging about this cache...

You've been direct in your cache description, and the first few logs are positive. I think there is a niche in geocaching for this type of cache.

Sit back and relax. <_<

24.7k · January 20, 2004

Everone needs caches to cut their teeth on. Only the Jaded are too stupid to either not hunt the ones 'too simple' for them, or appreciate them for the reasons the owner placed them.

The problem isn't with the cache or the hider.

Edited January 20, 2004 by Renegade Knight

9.4k · January 20, 2004

Every area needs some simple 1/1 caches. It gives the new cachers something to get started on (builds confidence when they find one). It also gives families with kids something to do that doesn't require a 5 mile hike.

Also, when I'm traveling I like to stop every once in a while and find a cache. I don't usually have much time, so 1/1 caches are perfect for this.

Not everyone will like every cache, if they complain about yours then tell them to get over it.

January 20, 2004

Here's a newbie perspective:

I definately appreciate the easy to find ones, especially after a few did-not-finds when I first started. My daughter loves to find those too. Being almost three, whenever we go for a walk now, she asks me if there is a box, and if I say there is, then she typically chants "where's the box" while looking.

When I first started I also had thoughts of putting my own cache in my alley, just to get one out there. After finding a few more, with some poor ones in there, and some extremely excellent ones (Thanks to Tahosa and GPSaxaphone), I have decided that when I put one out there, my first one will be truely memorable. I have no idea how to do that yet though, so I will continue looking for caches and find ideas to "steal" for my own (GPSaxaphone, hope you dont mind me eventually stealing the Balance 5 idea, heh).

I guess what I am saying is that easy ones are appreciated and enjoyed, but difficult, or interesting ones, or ones with good locations are what has addicted me to geocaching.

-Jason

5.9k · January 20, 2004

Every area needs some simple 1/1 caches. It gives the new cachers something to get started on (builds confidence when they find one). It also gives families with kids something to do that doesn't require a 5 mile hike.
Also, when I'm traveling I like to stop every once in a while and find a cache. I don't usually have much time, so 1/1 caches are perfect for this.

Not everyone will like every cache, if they complain about yours then tell them to get over it.

What he said. There are also the lunchtime cachers to consider.

1.4k · January 20, 2004

I can't believe no one has said it.....

If you hide it, They will come

This was a standard answer on this board a year or so ago. Don't worry about people thinkking it's lame. Just hide the cache and have fun. If in a while you decide it's lame them archive it and plant a better one.

1.3k · January 20, 2004

I think what you need to do is realize what the question you're asking really is.

Your previous question could be summed up as:

"Would you look for this cache?"

Your current question could be summed up as:

"Should I list this cache?"

These are two completely different unrelated questions. Just because someone wouldn't look for a cache, that doesn't mean they think that the cache shouldn't be listed. I want the listings to have a variety and as a result the listings should be filled with caches that don't interest me right now.

As the story goes:

"I'm sick of urban micros. The only caches that got placed this week in my area are urban micros"

"Well, you have a choice. Either there's some new urban micros or there's no new caches. Which do you want?"

"Why couldn't they have planted regular caches instead"

"Because they're not you. They contributed what they choose to contribute. You don't get to make the choice for them."

Contribute what you choose. If someone chooses not to seek it, that's their choice. It's got to go both ways.

9.4k · January 20, 2004

After finding a few more, with some poor ones in there, and some extremely excellent ones (Thanks to Tahosa and GPSaxophone), I have decided that when I put one out there, my first one will be truely memorable. I have no idea how to do that yet though, so I will continue looking for caches and find ideas to "steal" for my own (GPSaxophone, hope you dont mind me eventually stealing the Balance 5 idea, heh).

Half of your finds I either own or have found myself! This is pretty wierd since you live in Loveland, not exactly close to Albuquerque (nearly 500 miles away).

Feel free to use any of my cache ideas in your area, I've "borrowed" them from others too.

3k · January 20, 2004

Only the Jaded are too stupid to either not hunt the ones 'too simple' for them, or appreciate them for the reasons the owner placed them.

The primary reason for the hiding of many of the lamest-of-caches is so that other members of the 'team' can claim 'finds' on those lamest-of-caches. I understand some people are even known to sign the log even before those lamest-of-caches have been hidden. It's both amazing and disgusting the lengths people will go to in order to inflate their counts.

As the story goes:
"I'm sick of urban micros. The only caches that got placed this week in my area are urban micros"

"Well, you have a choice. Either there's some new urban micros or there's no new caches. Which do you want?"

Not the type of urban cache I wrote about in the previous paragraph, so I would vote for "no new caches."

They contributed what they choose to contribute.

I would argue that the contribution may have been purely "self-interest." In such cases, I would suggest that "no contribution" would better serve the geocaching community.

Edited January 20, 2004 by BassoonPilot

January 20, 2004

Half of your finds I either own or have found myself! This is pretty wierd since you live in Loveland, not exactly close to Albuquerque (nearly 500 miles away).

Feel free to use any of my cache ideas in your area, I've "borrowed" them from others too.

Heh heh. We did a lot while visiting family in Rio Rancho, my cousins really got exited about geocaching while there. What really got them going was being able to walk to Balance 4. My Aunt thought there was going to be a killer waiting in that park, heh, she just doesnt "get it".

9.4k · January 20, 2004

Half of your finds I either own or have found myself! This is pretty wierd since you live in Loveland, not exactly close to Albuquerque (nearly 500 miles away).

Feel free to use any of my cache ideas in your area, I've "borrowed" them from others too.

Heh heh. We did a lot while visiting family in Rio Rancho, my cousins really got exited about geocaching while there. What really got them going was being able to walk to Balance 4. My Aunt thought there was going to be a killer waiting in that park, heh, she just doesnt "get it".

The only "killer" at that park is finding my cache! <_<

January 20, 2004

The primary reason for the hiding of many of the lamest-of-caches is so that other members of the 'team' can claim 'finds' on those lamest-of-caches. I understand some people are even known to sign the log even before those lamest-of-caches have been hidden. It's both amazing and disgusting the lengths people will go to in order to inflate their counts.

Wow, how unbelievably stupid... I see this sort of thing all the time over on WheresGeorge.com. People will enter a bunch of bills and then give them to their friend to enter.

So you think I'll get a bunch of visitors to my cache that simply want to have another cache logged for their statistics? That's just a wee bit stupid, if you ask me.

YodaDoe

January 20, 2004

The primary reason for the hiding of many of the lamest-of-caches is so that other members of the 'team' can claim 'finds' on those lamest-of-caches.

This is a pretty broad statement. Even if you are correct concerning some corner of the geocaching world, it seems unlikely to me that these 'self-interest' caches are so numerous as to qualify as 'many' when you consider the whole of the sport.

But no doubt you can substantiate this claim, so that you don't come off as simply trolling...

3k · January 20, 2004

So you think I'll get a bunch of visitors to my cache that simply want to have another cache logged for their statistics?

If you hand your neighbor a hide-a-key containing a log you have pre-signed and ask him to list it on this website (or you list if "for him") specifically so that you can claim the find, then you will be a part of the problem. <_<

3k · January 20, 2004

But no doubt you can substantiate this claim, so that you don't come off as simply trolling...

Absolutely. But as you know, 'pointing fingers' is contrary to the forum guidelines.

It's interesting that you mentioned 'trolling.'

January 20, 2004

Some people love to chase the hard ones, some people the easy ones. Sometimes you have to read the logs with a grain of salt (my gps has it 25 feet from posted coordinates....).

24.7k · January 20, 2004

Some people love to chase the hard ones, some people the easy ones. Sometimes you have to read the logs with a grain of salt (my gps has it 25 feet from posted coordinates....).

All things bright and beautiful,

All creatures great and small,

All things wise and wonderful:

The Lord God made them all

Cachers do the same for their caches.

January 20, 2004

But no doubt you can substantiate this claim, so that you don't come off as simply trolling...

Absolutely. But as you know, 'pointing fingers' is contrary to the forum guidelines.

It's interesting that you mentioned 'trolling.'

You don't need to 'point fingers'. You can talk actual numbers without mentioning names. Just how many is 'many'? Over how wide an area?

As it is, you are simply making unsupported claims which have the potential to inflame a discussion where your claims are peripheral, at best. Perhaps you have another name for what you are doing...

January 20, 2004

I know of what BP is talking about and it is a problem but your hide is not that. Your cache could be called a practice hide which has a point and it is also novel because it is in your yard. Caches like this only become a problem when there are so many of them that the good ones start to get lost in the search listings. This actually does happen in some places for the reasons that BP is alluding to. It only takes a few persons whose behavior is driven purely by numbers to begin a campagin of saturation bombing an area with easy crappy caches which don't appeal to everyone else. Unfortunately, there are not limits on the number of caches that any one person can hide in spite of the fact that there are "maintainable distance" rules, etc.

I don't think that I would enjoy your cache much and I probably wouldn't try it but I would have no real reason to complain or be disappointed if I did. I'm sure you're not expecting any comments like "Great Cache!" under the circumstances. I don't know why you got the negative feedback or even if you did since I'm not seeing it in the logs but then I also didn't see the cache page before you changed it. It may have happened that somebody came looking for your cache and expected something else. You had better believe that some will come looking just to score a point in the game and some will do so without ever having read the cache page. They get what they deserve but that might not stop them from complaining.

And yes, that's just a wee bit stupid.

January 20, 2004

I don't know why you got the negative feedback or even if you did since I'm not seeing it in the logs but then I also didn't see the cache page before you changed it.

The feedback was sent via email to me. It was too negative... more like questioning, like "didn't see the point... wasn't challenging... with the map, didn't even need a GPS." I'm not offended to get messages like that. Any feedback is good for me at this point. I was just curious if everyone would think the same as this guy did.

YodaDoe

January 20, 2004

I would say the person who sent the negative email has some issues of their own to deal with. You were upfront and perfectly clear on the purpose of the cache. His problem, not yours.

January 20, 2004

But no doubt you can substantiate this claim, so that you don't come off as simply trolling...

Absolutely. But as you know, 'pointing fingers' is contrary to the forum guidelines.

It's interesting that you mentioned 'trolling.'

You don't need to 'point fingers'. You can talk actual numbers without mentioning names. Just how many is 'many'? Over how wide an area?

As it is, you are simply making unsupported claims which have the potential to inflame a discussion where your claims are peripheral, at best. Perhaps you have another name for what you are doing...

I'll take a crack at this even though it is a bit off topic. I know of a pair of very prolific cachers that have a combined total of almost 500 hides. They are VERY closely related and often work as a team. It happens sometimes that one of them will log a find on a cache the same day it is hidden. You can make your own inference about what is going on there. BP may be referring to the same persons or not. I'm sure that it happens elsewhere.

On Topic:

YodaDoe, you have the right attitude. Take it as constructive criticism and leave it at that. Email the guy back to explain why you hid a cache there if he's not bright enough to figure it out for himself. It may be that he didn't give your page a good read or only saw an old version of it.

January 20, 2004

Three comments: First, I absolutely DO NOT think easy cache's are lame. You will always find someone out there who will try to beat the system and play the numbers game. For those people, they miss the real fun of geocaching so it's their own loss. I agree with all the comments above. Easier cache's have a great many benefits.

Secondly, when its 10 degree's below zero (as it is over here right now) and you need to get your weekly geocaching fix in, the easier cache helps curb the addiction quite nicely. So I say THANK YOU for placing them!

Lastly.....My first cache placement was pretty easy. I know my second one will be much more difficult. If I'm lucky enough to place even more, I can see the difficulty rating on them going up each time. Do most people start out with easier cache placements and work their way up?

2.2k · January 20, 2004

sometimes i like an easy cache. one of my caches is a very easy one. i've even had logs saying it was nice not to have to bushwhack or go through a swamp to find it. i just made sure i said it was easy in the notes.this

January 20, 2004

Easy caches aren't lame. Lame caches are lame.

3k · January 20, 2004

As it is, you are simply making unsupported claims which have the potential to inflame a discussion where your claims are peripheral, at best. Perhaps you have another name for what you are doing...

It's easy to uncover examples of people who engage in activities like the one I mentioned earlier. All you have to do is stop "trolling" and "attempting to inflame a discussion" for a few minutes and do a miniscule amount of research.

Even you could accomplish that, Yumitori, if you tried really, really hard.

YodaDoe, I am sure you understand that I was not referring to your cache. As Harrald stated "if you place it, they will come." And the fact is, (and I choose not to "support" this "claim"), the easier the cache is, the more visitors it will receive.

That probably says more about the quality of the cachers than the cache.

January 20, 2004

"Easy" caches are cool with me!

They help beginners get used to their GPS and get the satisfaction of their first find. They motivate the beginners to find more and try to find the harder ones.

They are great for lunchtime cachers without a lot of time to spend driving and walking around.

They are great "bad weather" caches. If it's snowing outside and I have to have a cache fix, these are a great choice!

2k · January 20, 2004

Hey Yodadoe, I would like to see a few more 1/1 wheelchair/handicapped access caches around here. My Mom likes to go along with my sister and her kids. At 73 with most of her "walking joints" artificial long hikes aren't really much of an option.

6.5k · January 20, 2004

Thanks for your input, folks.

I did add a few more comments to my description, stating explicitly that the cache is painfully easy. But the old description still said that it was a traditional item-trade, logbook cache. One person who found it yesterday was asking me what the point of it was, since it didn't involve hiking or any real challenge. So that's why I was second-guessing myself. I feel better now! Thanks again,

YodaDoe

Ahh it'so easy to pass judgement when only part of the context is known. <_<

<snip> GeoGeorge Posted on Jan 20 2004, 12:14 PM

I would say the person who sent the negative email has some issues of their own to deal with. You were upfront and perfectly clear on the purpose of the cache. His problem, not yours. <snip>

The email was mine and was not meant in a negative light at all. I asked the innocent question because Yodadoe indicated in his profile that he was a grad student at State. We had another grad student place several simple caches last fall in order to get some questionnaires answered by the caching community. YD and I have exchanged several very pleasent emails today. I suggested he look up urban micros to see how they compare to his efforts, and even linked to a few we already have here including one of my own.

I never indicated the cache was lame either, although the map link puts you right on his street, he gives the street address to protect his neighbors tree, and there is only one tree in his small urban yard. Since YD decided to hide his first before finding any of ours (by the stats in the profile) it seemed to be a perfectly decent question to ask.

So to sum up- a bit boring-yes but I still logged the find and enjoyed the diversion on the way home from a busy day at work.

Lame- not at all; there are all levels of caches for all levels of players.

Isuues to deal with of my own what exactly do you mean by that? You wanna make something of it? bwahahahaha ahh fuggetttaboutit

4.1k · January 20, 2004

As it is, you are simply making unsupported claims which have the potential to inflame a discussion where your claims are peripheral, at best. Perhaps you have another name for what you are doing...

It's easy to uncover examples of people who engage in activities like the one I mentioned earlier. All you have to do is stop "trolling" and "attempting to inflame a discussion" for a few minutes and do a miniscule amount of research.

Even you could accomplish that, Yumitori, if you tried really, really hard.

YodaDoe, I am sure you understand that I was not referring to your cache. As Harrald stated "if you place it, they will come." And the fact is, (and I choose not to "support" this "claim"), the easier the cache is, the more visitors it will receive.

That probably says more about the quality of the cachers than the cache.

Yodadoe, This is all a game and the big factor here is "Did YOU have fun placing this cache and enjoy following the find logs?".

As to who's placing caches for their friends and why, the real question is "Who really gives a S.....?" We're in the game for our enjoyment and not worrying about who's cheating who. Lighten up B.P.

If you're having fun Yodadoe, keep doing it.

John

January 20, 2004

One person who found it yesterday was asking me what the point of it was, since it didn't involve hiking or any real challenge. So that's why I was second-guessing myself. I feel better now! Thanks again,

YodaDoe

Well that very inciteful person should have read the description a little clooser. Nothing wrong with an easy cache even the more experienced cacher appreciates them as a pick-me-up. Negative feedback or deffending your cache should not be an issue. Keep on caching and have fun, this is a game and not all people can play in the same sandbox some days.

January 20, 2004

system double post sorry

Edited January 20, 2004 by Cachengrab

January 20, 2004

I haven't been at this for all that long, but I can say without a doubt that I am prejudiced in favor of the more difficult caches. One of these days, I'm going to find the time to travel to one of the multi-caches up north. However, I can't say that I would ever pass up any cache that was offered, no matter how "lame." I shamelessly stole my signature line (with additions).

Edited January 20, 2004 by Balboagirl

January 21, 2004

Si, Senor!!! I am creating an "upscale" cache: I will put $50 or so worth in it and make a rule that there is a house minimum value of $25.00 for EVERYTHING in it; nothing less than $25.00 in value can be placed into it!!!!! <_<

January 21, 2004

didn't see the point...

There are two slightly different issues at play here. The first is, "easy cache". The second is, "pointless cache". They're not the same.

Easy caches are just fine by me.

Pointless caches are less so. Your front yard. Is it anything special? Out in the woods perhaps, a nice drive, something like that? Or is it just a front yard? See, one of the things about GeoCaching that provides ongoing enjoyment is exposure to new and interesting places. They don't all have to be "Coffee Table Book" quality (the standard for Virtuals now), but they should be something, even if only a nice corner of a local park. A cache in your front yard is probably pointless in this regard - the normal cacher asks, "why did you bring me here?"

The most pointless cache I've been to so far was on the front of a restaurant. Now, perhaps this is a restaurant that the cache hider likes - I'm pretty sure it is - but so what? The response in the written logs was often "this is it? Nearby is a two-stage multi on a short urban nature trail along an exposed part of an otherwise flood controlled creek. That cache has a point. The restaurant cache didn't, or didn't much.

It's subtle. Without a cache, the good destination is incomplete. Without a good destination, the cache is incomplete. You need to try to find both to have a good hide.

Edited January 21, 2004 by WalruZ

Simple Caches Boring?

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