[IMG] Tags removed from signature lines

1.4k · October 10, 2003

What if users hosted their image files on the Groundspeak servers instead of outside sources. Of course this wouldn't work for the keenpeople.com images.... but it's an idea.

Jeff

If you hide it, they will come....

October 10, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by southdeltan:
I'm sure that eventually somebody with the knowledge, the time and the talent will create an alternative.

There's already one in the planning stages. Currently, the design and implementation of certain technologies are being discussed and tested.

--

Pehmva!

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2.1k · October 10, 2003

I don't think it would make much difference on the time thing jeff....

I was about to put what cruzin said about turning off the graphics in the browser as well.

Brian

3.9k · October 10, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by southdeltan:

quote:
Originally posted by El Diablo:
It's like going to a night club, a movie theater, a restaruant, etc... They make the rules, they can change them at anytime. I never remember GC saying you could add images to your sig line...so they really haven't changed any rules.

They didn't have to say you could add images. They left that option on when they started the forums. By not turning it off, they in fact did give permission for it to be used.

quote:
I'm not saying "don't let the door hit you in the..." However you have to respect the rules of the host or go play somewhere else.

Where?

quote:
There are people that will say that they are a paying member...so? If you pay to get in a night club or a movie theater it dosen't give you the right to decide how they should run the estabishment. I don't care how much you pay. If you show your a$$ they will show you to the door.

That may be true, but voicing displeasure is not necesarrily showing your rear. If enough customers don't like the rules, eventually there will be competition. I beleive that competition is good for customers, but not for businesses. From a business standpoint, every disgruntled customer is lost business. As it is now, there is no viable alternative. I'm sure that eventually somebody with the knowledge, the time and the talent will create an alternative. I don't know that it will necessarily be good for gc.com OR more importantly geocaching in general.

Please do not interprete any of my posts as anti-gc.com. I agree with the majority of the decissions here. I am just vocal about the few things I don't agree with.

southdeltan

I'm a manager of a business. I'll agree that customer satisfaction is the number one priority. However you can't let the customers run the business. There are two seperate goals. The business to make money...the customer to save money. What you have to offer for your price is a superior service. Which I believe is offered here.

Competition is a good thing if you have the upperhand...once again I believe GC does. It compares apples to bananas.

Every business manager at one time or another will make the decision to lose a customer in order to maintain his profitability or to persreve the integerity of his company.

El Diablo

Everything you do in life...will impact someone,for better or for worse.

1.4k · October 10, 2003

The forums seem quite slow to load for me regardless of being on a T1 at work, broadband cable at home or dial-up over a cell phone and lap top. The main site slows to a crawl during the weekends when there is heavy activity i.e. logging caches. Maybe it's time to look at an increase in bandwidth to the site....

I don't have a image in my .sig, but have not been offended by those that do. I also understand that not all servers are created equally and some slower servers may cause the boards to 'hang' when loading certain images. I just hate to see every punished with no advance warning. I have yet to read a public complaint regarding images in .sig files. Anyways, this is an interesting developement and seems to have really struck a nerve with a lot of forum users. I can't help but wonder if the reason truly is because of the keenpeople.com stats images.....

Jeff

If you hide it, they will come....

3.9k · October 10, 2003

quote:
Why not reduce the number of posts per page by half? This is the only message board I've seen that has it set to 50

How about a pull down menu that gives you a choice of how many posts you want per page?

Two roads diverged in a wood, and I-

I took the one less traveled by,

And that has made all the difference.

Because now I am Lost.

1.4k · October 10, 2003

I don't think it would make much difference on the time thing jeff....

I would debate that statement... not all servers are created equally and not all share the same outbound bandwidth. If images were hosted locally i.e. on Groundspeak servers (which at times are slow) it would aid in keeping those loading an image from a slow host from 'hanging' the board while loading.

Jeff

If you hide it, they will come....

2.1k · October 10, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by El Diablo:

Every business manager at one time or another will make the decision to lose a customer in order to maintain his profitability or to persreve the integerity of his company.

I think it depends on that customer. Is that customer one that comes in a few times every so often, or is it one that is there everyday and for long periods of time? Also I think there's a difference in how the customer supports the business as well. Your not talking about one customer here, you are talking about many. You can afford to lose one customer here and there. But as someone else put it, when you break the "camels back", then it could be trouble. Especially when many of those customers are premium members and purchase GC goods often.

To be honest I am surprised to see so many people upset and voicing their opinion on it.

Brian

October 10, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by El Diablo:
What you have to offer for your price is a superior service. Which I believe is offered here.

Of course it's superior service - it's the ONLY service. The "N" site can't honestly be considered competition, therefore Groundspeak has a wholesale monopoly on distributing geocache data to the public.

It's kind of like the electricity coming into your home. If you got upset with your electricity provider for some reason and wanted to buy electricity from their competitor, tough cookies. They don't have any competitors. Do you have an option? Sure - buy lots of candles and get on friendly terms with the manager of your local ice distributor.

--

Pehmva!

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1.4k · October 10, 2003

If you got upset with your electricity provider for some reason and wanted to buy electricity from their competitor, tough cookies. They don't have any competitors.

Actually... with deregulation, many people can now chose their power provider, phone company (CLEC), cable company, broadband provider, etc..

Jeff

If you hide it, they will come....

2.1k · October 10, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by jeff35080:

I would debate that statement... not all servers are created equally and not all share the same outbound bandwidth. If images were hosted locally i.e. on Groundspeak servers (which at times are slow) it would aid in keeping those loading an image from a slow host from 'hanging' the board while loading.

I said that much difference...lol If people clear their cache and/or temp files often, then it will still take some time for them to download, even on the GC side, plus then you are using their(GC) bandwidth. I agree with the others that possibly knocking down the amount of posts on a page with the grpahics on them may help a good bit. But i think the best thing is that if someone doesn't want to look at them or wait for them, then it's an easy switch in the browser to do.

Brian

October 10, 2003

quote:
Actually... with deregulation, many people can now chose their power provider, phone company (CLEC), cable company, broadband provider, etc..

Depending on where you live, you might have the option of choosing who sends the bill, but the lines are still owned by one company.

We're getting off topic and we all know what that will mean, so I'll bring it back by saying that it was just a comparison between one monopolistic situation and another. Groundspeak has no reason to bring the images back and keep some of their users happy when there's nowhere else for their users to go spend their money. As long as they're the only option and people want to geocache, they're going to get the business.

--

Pehmva!

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2.6k · October 10, 2003

I don't care about the images.

I just have to say that when I'm on my laptop with it's 14.4 modem the images aren't the problem. It's the forum freezes that drive me crazy.

POWDER!!!!!!

Honored to provide inmate labor for Admin brick manufacture since 2002.

1.4k · October 10, 2003

if someone doesn't want to look at them or wait for them, then it's an easy switch in the browser to do.

I will agree with you on that. Unfortunately, most people will never bother to RTFM. It's a sad fact of the 'dumbing down' of society. Like I stated earlier, I sometimes browse the site via a 14.4 cell phone connection and the images never bothered me.....

Jeff

If you hide it, they will come....

2.1k · October 10, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by jeff35080:
Actually... with deregulation, many people can now chose their power provider, phone company (CLEC), cable company, broadband provider, etc..

My inlaws live in an area that they don't get choices. I've had a hard time understanding it, but even my father has heard of it. It's either a telephone, cable or electric company which has the monpoly, but you can only get their cable and their dialup internet. You can get a satellite dish, but it can only be The Dish Network and not DirecTV. There are some other things that they can't do. I don't understand it, but they are the type of people who don't liek being told what and what they can do and would find other means.

Also to add to keep it back on topic, but someone mentioned to me about possibly getting rid of a bunch of the archived postings here on the forums. Not sure if it will have anything to do with the bandwidth, but I like the idea anyway...lol.

Brian

3.9k · October 10, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by Woodsters Outdoors:

quote:
Originally posted by El Diablo:

Every business manager at one time or another will make the decision to lose a customer in order to maintain his profitability or to persreve the integerity of his company.

I think it depends on that customer. Is that customer one that comes in a few times every so often, or is it one that is there everyday and for long periods of time? Also I think there's a difference in how the customer supports the business as well. Your not talking about one customer here, you are talking about many. You can afford to lose one customer here and there. But as someone else put it, when you break the "camels back", then it could be trouble. Especially when many of those customers are premium members and purchase GC goods often.

To be honest I am surprised to see so many people upset and voicing their opinion on it.

Brian

http://www.woodsters.com

Brian,

Your point is well taken. However it dosen't matter how often the customer visits or the products he buys. If a customer underminds your goal as a businees...then you cut him off. In the long run he will hurt more than help.

Keep in mind that we who use the fourms are a very minority group of GC. I just want people to have respect of this site. It ticks me off that they think they should rule by majority. We both have websites and neither of us would allow someone else to take control of that site. We may be influenced by request, but ultimently we control it.

El Diablo

Everything you do in life...will impact someone,for better or for worse.

1.4k · October 10, 2003

As long as they're the only option and people want to geocache, they're going to get the business.

That's true... when I took some business classes back in my college days I had one professor that insisted that "competion is good for everyone".

Jeff

If you hide it, they will come....

1.4k · October 10, 2003

It's the forum freezes that drive me crazy.

Amen! Even if you had OC3 access you can still be limited by the speed of the InfoPop server and it's upload/download bandwidth.

Jeff

If you hide it, they will come....

1.3k · October 10, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by jeff35080:
_If you got upset with your electricity provider for some reason and wanted to buy electricity from their competitor, tough cookies. They don't have any competitors. _

Actually... with deregulation, many people can now chose their power provider, phone company (CLEC), cable company, broadband provider, etc..

Jeff

Not all states have deregulated electricity.

Regardless of that fact - GC.com is still the only game in town. If you check on NC.coms leaderboard (which isn't opt out) you'll see there aren't many members there. OC.com is still a dream.

I personally don't want to go to another site. Even if I did want to, there is nowhere for me to go. GC.com has done such a good job that they've made their job more difficult.

The current situation is - Use GC.com like it is (and never voice your opinions or you're whining) or quit geocaching. I don't think that's how it should be.

In reference to losing "A" customer - we're not talking about a few upset people, we're talking about more than a few.

southdeltan

1.4k · October 10, 2003

Keep in mind that we who use the fourms are a very minority group of GC

In previous discussions weren't we told that we weren't a minority

I still believe that we are a very small minority.

Jeff

If you hide it, they will come....

1.4k · October 10, 2003

The current situation is - Use GC.com like it is (and never voice your opinions or you're whining) or quit geocaching. I don't think that's how it should be.

Or.... just cache and don't say anything about the status quo. I enjoy placing caches and I enjoy finding caches. I enjoy interacting with all of you and I realize that since I let my membership lapse I'm basically doing it for 'free'. If I could see Groundspeak implementing many of the features that so many that post here want, I would reinstate my monthly membership fee. I seriously hope Jeremy gets rich from this venture, but I just hate to see the masses (in the forums) clamor for certain features only to have some more of their geocaching freedoms taken away from them.

Jeff

If you hide it, they will come....

3.9k · October 10, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by jeff35080:
_Keep in mind that we who use the fourms are a very minority group of GC_

In previous discussions weren't we told that we weren't a minority

I still believe that we are a very small minority.

Jeff

http://www.StarsFellOnAlabama.com

http://www.NotAChance.com

If you hide it, they will come....

Look back over the fourms for the last 6 months...I bet you won't find 200 posters. 200 out of 80,000 plus members is a minority.

El Diablo

Everything you do in life...will impact someone,for better or for worse.

October 10, 2003

quote:
What you have to offer for your price is a superior service. Which I believe is offered here.

There is, however, a big difference between "a superior service" and "superior service".

Example: I went back and forth with a volunteer admin about an automatic archival of my cache. My suggestion was a "tickler" email sent automatically based on a date trigger (today's date - temporarily disabled date >= XX, totally oversimplifying, I know) and the response that I received was akin to "we're way to busy to do something like that". Well then hire another "lackey", get an intern, whatever. A simple "we've put it in the list of suggestions we've received and will look at it when time allows" would have made me happy.

I just get this feeling like, "we know that you love what we provide and that your tolerance for BS will be higher than the average person, so take what we give you and don't rock the boat"

Maybe I'm wrong, but that's how I feel.

1.4k · October 10, 2003

Look back over the fourms for the last 6 months...I bet you won't find 200 posters. 200 out of 80,000 plus members is a minority.

Yep, I agree. I realize that TPTB want to make the forums accessible to all geocachers, but even with the removal of graphics in signatures, I doubt that we will see a great influx of new posters.

Jeff

If you hide it, they will come....

1.4k · October 10, 2003

There is, however, a big difference between "a superior service" and "superior service".

That is a great statement! I will have to remember that one. It can apply to a lot of things and those that have stated that they aren't allowed to choose certain services i.e. electric, phone, cable, etc. probably feel the same way about their situation.

I do think that Groundspeak does an overall good job, but it seems over the past few months that things have somewhat changed. I can't really 'put my finger on it', but things just seem different that when I first began my geocaching adventures.

Jeff

If you hide it, they will come....

3.9k · October 10, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by jeff35080:
_Look back over the fourms for the last 6 months...I bet you won't find 200 posters. 200 out of 80,000 plus members is a minority._

Yep, I agree. I realize that TPTB want to make the forums accessible to all geocachers, but even with the removal of graphics in signatures, I doubt that we will see a great influx of new posters.

Jeff

http://www.StarsFellOnAlabama.com

http://www.NotAChance.com

If you hide it, they will come....

There won't be a influx one way or the other. You being in law enforcement and me having spent 8 years in it, realize that the people that post here are of the type "A" personality for the majority.

El Diablo

Everything you do in life...will impact someone,for better or for worse.

1.4k · October 10, 2003

You being in law enforcement and me having spent 8 years in it, realize that the people that post here are of the type "A" personality for the majority.

Jeff

If you hide it, they will come....

3.9k · October 10, 2003

I have a question. So you've eliminated images in sig lines. OK, what if I wanted to insert a photo every time I posted. Doesn’t that have the same 'slow down' effect? Just because it's not in the sig line, the page still has to load the picture. Am I simplifying this too much? If I want to continue to add a particular photo or banner or whatever to my posts, can't I just add it to the body of the post?

Two roads diverged in a wood, and I-

I took the one less traveled by,

And that has made all the difference.

Because now I am Lost.

2.3k · October 10, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by J&MBella:
I have a question. So you've eliminated images in sig lines. OK, what if I wanted to insert a photo every time I posted. Doesn’t that have the same 'slow down' effect? Just because it's not in the sig line, the page still has to load the picture. Am I simplifying this too much? If I want to continue to add a particular photo or banner or whatever to my posts, can't I just add it to the body of the post?

Good point. I have noticed more of a lag when pictures are in the main part of a message. Particularly when there are more than one or two in a thread.

Remember, wherever you go- there you are!

October 10, 2003

First-Since the removal of the sig line img the display times for me have changed. It is faster.

Second- I would rather see a different alternative looked into that the removal of the sig line img to speed things up.

Third- if you had 12 email that thanked you, how many posts by different users have complained about the removal? By my count, i find that those in favor greatly outwiegh those opposed------oh, wait.......Jeremy has his thumb on the scale. My apologies. Those against the sig file win!

With so many wanting stat and asking for stats, one would think one would change with the times. I am not saying that this site is going to fade away or anything like that, but many people are posting negative comments here and on other sites. Maybe you (Jeremy) should rethink you position? I have made many choices that I did not like in my life, but they were made despite my pride and arrogance. Being stubborn is a very hard thing to overcome. But, it must be overcome or it can lead to very tough times.

Earthling

Team Hide & Seek

3.9k · October 10, 2003

If the reason you've stopped allowing tags is to improve speed, I don't see how that solves the 'problem'. All I have to do is copy & paste like this...

and I still get what I want in my post?

Two roads diverged in a wood, and I-

I took the one less traveled by,

And that has made all the difference.

Because now I am Lost.

1.6k · October 10, 2003

I think it more than a little disingenuous to blame the board slow down on signature images.

Browsing the web just doesn't work that way. When you're sitting there waiting for something to happen, staring at the same screen you were when you clicked, has nothing to do with images! Haven't you run into a situation where someone's image tag didn't work? The page loaded, only the image didn't. That's proof that the page isn't waiting for the image. Same here.

When your browser requests a page, the server first only sends the text of the document. The browser reads it and then requests whatever images it needs to render. The server doesn't gather up all of necessary files to send at one time. For one thing, some images may be on another server. It doesn't go to the other server, grab them and send them to you. It just doesn't happen that way.

No, blaming sig line images for board slowness is nothing but a red herring.

CR

Sissy-n-CR

Be sure to visit: KeenPeople · Open Caching · Buxley's Maps · Navìcache.com

1.4k · October 10, 2003

All I have to do is copy & paste like this...

I have a sneaky suspicion that we will, most likely, see a ban on all image files in posts, regardless of their location i.e. sig file or the main body of the post. I really hate to think that this may happen as I really enjoy seeing some of the pictures. I like the silly ones, as well as, the ones that show beautiful nature shots. In fact, the wallpaper on the laptop I'm using right now was provided by a fellow cacher that posts here and is used by me, with permission. I am going to hate to see all the images be banned.

Jeff

If you hide it, they will come....

1.4k · October 10, 2003

No, blaming sig line images for board slowness is nothing but a red herring.

If it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck...

I really enjoy reading and participating here and have met some of the nicest people via GC.com but I have to agree that there may be a possibility that more bandwidth or different software may be in order.

Jeff

If you hide it, they will come....

3.9k · October 10, 2003

I don't know why this subject is sticking me the wrong way so much. Generally I'm very happy with this site, and I think Jeremy and the staff are doing a fine job. But this doesn't make sense. Is it an option for a user to turn off graffics so large images don't load or no images? This just doesn't seem to acomplish want you say you want to acomplish. Case in point...

Doesn't all that slow up everything just as much?

Two roads diverged in a wood, and I-

I took the one less traveled by,

And that has made all the difference.

Because now I am Lost.

October 10, 2003

Well, I didn't figure it would last long anyway.

"Nice find! I must go tell Harry, Ron and Hermione."

1.6k · October 10, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by jeff35080:
_No, blaming sig line images for board slowness is nothing but a red herring._

If it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck...

It's more like moos like a cow.

Now that I've sat here for 1 minute and some odd seconds waiting for the Post A Reply page to come up, I can finally get to responding. But you know what? The lag of the Post A Reply page is what I'm talking about. It has very little in the way of images, yet it takes forever to load. Why? Not because of images! It's poor response from the server.

There are two issues people are seeing here. One is server response. The other is user bandwidth. Two different things. Removing images will not do anything significant for the response times.

I have a sneaky suspicion that the majority of the complaints were actually about server response.

CR

Sissy-n-CR

Be sure to visit: KeenPeople · Open Caching · Buxley's Maps · Navìcache.com

3.9k · October 10, 2003

I was hoping for a response from Jeremy or an admin before I retired for the evening. But I can't wait any longer. Goodnight all.

Two roads diverged in a wood, and I-

I took the one less traveled by,

And that has made all the difference.

Because now I am Lost.

October 10, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by cachew nut:
So if 10 or so people email you each day for a couple of weeks, can we get some stats on this site?

Don't count on it. Jeremy's a purist and is against the idea of competitive aspect being injected into the activity. He's admitted that the keenpeople.com stat images were a part of his decision - I'm inclined to think that it's a very big part and was certainly the catalyst for his decision to pull images from .sigs.

So, between him projecting his "vision" of what direction the activity should take (disregarding the wants and desires of the other 80,000 participants) and his bad blood with keenpeople.com, don't expect .sig images to be back any time soon.

Jeremy appears to work pretty hard on this site and seems to be a pretty proficient developer (I have a really hard time using that word to describe anyone that uses VB), and I'm sure his intentions are just, but he is incredibly arrogant and has convinced himself that the direction he wants the activity to take is the best, and subsequently the only, path it should take, regardless of what the rest of the caching population thinks. That attitude, not the actions he takes or decisions he makes, is the fundamental source of friction between TPTB and those of us that are "outspoken" or "whiners" in the forums. He would find his customer base much happier if he were more willing to accomodate them and their desires. It isn't that it can't be done; he just doesn't want to do it.

</commentary>

--

Pehmva!

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1.4k · October 10, 2003

I have a sneaky suspicion that the majority of the complaints were actually about server response

Yep...

Does the InfoPop software reside on a Groundspeak server which is dedicated for the forums? Is it on a virtual server? Although InfoPop is one of the largest providers of threaded forum software, there are options available that might be more suited for the task. With Christmas rapidly approaching, the sport will see an influx of new users towards the end of December, will the forum response time become worse as more new users, with new GPSr delivered by Santa, join the forums?

Jeff

If you hide it, they will come....

October 10, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by jeff35080:
Does the InfoPop software reside on a Groundspeak server which is dedicated for the forums? Is it on a virtual server? Although InfoPop is one of the largest providers of threaded forum software, there are options available that might be more suited for the task.

There's an open-source package out there called PHPbb, which has all the features of InfoPop's package but is completely free. I run it on one of my sites and find it to be even more feature rich than the ubbx package. I don't see why they're still paying InfoPop when a better alternative exists and doesn't cost a nickel.

--

Pehmva!

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1.4k · October 10, 2003

Yes, I really like the PHPbb code and the fact that it's open source. I wonder how well it perfoms on large sites such as this when the SQL databases get really large. It's still going to be important to have fast boxes with enough bandwidth to handle the masses.

Jeff

If you hide it, they will come....

October 10, 2003

Ok, I'm going to admit I'm reading all this for the first time, haven't been on the forums in a week or so, and don't necessarily read and post ALL the time.

So after reading all this I've come to a conclusion about this debate (for myself at least).

Some people can't show off all their fancy little tags and such. BOO FLIPPIN HOO!

If I want to know about your stats I'll look on your profile page. Quit whining about it and get over yourselves. It seems like there are a lot of people that are more concerned with their image in the forum than anything else.

Get away from the dadgum computer and go find a cache or two like you used to!!!!

"Sometimes you are a very large fool Perrin Aybara. Quite often in fact." Annoura Sedai (Book Nine of The WoT)

1.3k · October 10, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by Perrin:
Some people can't show off all their fancy little tags and such. BOO FLIPPIN HOO!

If I want to know about your stats I'll look on your profile page. Quit whining about it and get over yourselves. It seems like there are a lot of people that are more concerned with their image in the forum than anything else.

Get away from the dadgum computer and go find a cache or two like you used to!!!!

Standing Ovation!!!

I don't care what the reasoning was, I'm glad they are gone. I have nothing to hide but those IP Address ones bothered me. It felt like an invasion into my privacy. As for the stats ones, I know there is a large vocal group that wants a stats site. So one of you computer geniuses create a site and let people who care opt in and leave the rest of us out of it.

I hope you believe you understand what you think I said, but I'm not sure you realize that what you've heard is not what I meant. --Richard Nixon

Washington State Geocaching Assn.

October 10, 2003

Hi Jeremy,

"With great disappointment, we have removed the use of tags from sig lines.

This was a difficult decision, but over the past few weeks we have received far too many complaints about the effect that sig lines have to a discussion. Slow download times on modems, distracting sig lines that affect the ongoing conversations, and responses being more signature line than response.

Profiles were created to allow you to express yourself. Please do so there. If you want to add text sig lines, feel free, but don't abuse this feature.

Thanks,

Jeremy Irish

Groundspeak - The Language of Location

Posts: 1185 | From: Emerald City, USA | Registered: September 01, 2000"

I really don't understand what's going here.

Could you explain better?

Your buddy,

Bernie

24.7k · October 10, 2003

s

quote:
Originally posted by El Diablo:
...Keep in mind that we who use the fourms are a very minority group of GC...

50K who have signed up in the forums.

150K estimated geocachers signed up.

Not such a small minority. Not everyone uses the forums who is signed up, nor is every cacher a power cacher.

1.6k · October 10, 2003

You know, it's funny that the people who are applauding the removal of graphic sig lines aren't doing their part and removing their avatars, too. If my little sig graphic was so bad, then the avatars have to go as well.

Hmmm? How about it?

CR

Sissy-n-CR

Be sure to visit: KeenPeople · Open Caching · Buxley's Maps ·

[This message was edited by CO Admin on October 11, 2003 at 06:47 AM.]

1.4k · October 10, 2003

So one of you computer geniuses create a site and let people who care opt in and leave the rest of us out of it.

Uh No one was forcing anyone to display any stats. I didn't display any, but it didn't bother me that others did.

So.... basically, a computer genuis did create a way for people to "opt in" and no one was forced to participate.

Jeff