SOCK PUPPETS BE GONE!!! RESPONSIBLE CACHERS UNITE AGAINST THIS WASTE OF TIME!!!

1.6k · June 24, 2003

Well, if we ignore you, then you have free reign to lurk and be a nuisance, and ultimately, who knows what else! You could end up being taken seriously by the naive and uninformed. (That's kinda similar to what certain politicians in Canada do, and then they wreak havoc on society...)

8.4k · June 24, 2003

Ya know, I have only been on these forums since the last week of April and only because I was urged to join in the discussion by a friend. Speaking as a comparative noobie with respect to some post numbers here; it has been my experience that there are people on these forums who aren't really happy unless they have something to get good and mad about. I thank God for avatars because I can see quickly to just brush right past what some people have to say. It's not worth my time.

This is a game. It’s not real life, but there are valuable life lessons to be learned from it as there are with most games people play. Some people just take things way too seriously.

The pompous talk of interference with serious discussion.....LoL......What color is the sky in your world? I haven't learned very much from the "serious discussions" that I couldn't figure out on my own. I have taken quite a few new ideas from here though. BTW- How many pages has the “continue the story” thread gone? Of course the “geocaching haiku's” thread was very culturally significant I’m sure. I enjoyed them. I enjoy quite a few people’s posts. I’m sure at least a few of them are puppets. So what……?

I come here to enjoy myself. Not to get a case of heartburn. Life's too short.

My point? If I ever start to take what anyone here says (Sock Puppet or not) too seriously, I will take a breather from that madness. I most definitely will not go around looking for something to get mad about, or try to get others to join me in an effort to restrict someone else.

Sngans

The greatest labor saving invention of today is tomorrow....

8.4k · June 24, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by canadazuuk:
Well, if we ignore you, then you have free reign to lurk and be a nuisance, and ultimately, who knows what else! You could end up being taken seriously by the naive and uninformed. (That's kinda similar to what certain politicians in Canada do, and then they wreak havoc on society...)

Oh, come onnnnnnnn, Who appointed you as Protector of the Naive and Uninformed? ROFL

I can't get the picture of Mel Gibson in Conspiracy Theory outta my head now. Betcha got a buncha copies of "Catcher in the Rye" around the house.

Sngans

The greatest labor saving invention of today is tomorrow....

1.6k · June 24, 2003

quote:
It has been my experience that there are people on these forums who aren't really happy unless they have something to get good and mad about.

And equally, there are many folks whose experience here is the exact opposite.

quote:
The pompous talk of interference with serious discussion.....LoL......What color is the sky in your world?

It's in the ears of the listener. If you don't like what you are hearing, you can speak up, or stop listening. Good that you prefer to stop listening. But sock puppets are a nuisance, and I have chosen to speak up.

quote:
My point? I most definitely will not go around try(ing) to get others to join me in an effort to restrict someone else.

So you voted 'No'. No problem.

My original complaint still stands.

Sock puppets are a nuisance.

'Restricting' the appearance of sock puppets is the issue... not restricting folks who aren't afraid to let it be known who they are when they open their great big mouth.

1.6k · June 24, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by Snoogans:

Oh, come onnnnnnnn, Who appointed you as Protector of the Naive and Uninformed?

Who appointed you as The Protector of Equal Posting Rights For Sock Puppets?

Too bad you didn't catch the humourous tone of my post. I would be among the first to agree with the premise that geocaching is taken too seriously.

Tones like what you sound out with are fine, because we know who they are from. The issue is when these same tones come from nowhere in particular and ring on like a set noisy cymbals...

1.6k · June 24, 2003

The sheer quantity of reminds me of one of our most prolific sock puppets in times recently passed...

The question has now become, what is a responsible response to sock puppeteering?

June 24, 2003

I have no problem with sock puppets of course I consider every user name that isn't a name to be a sock puppet.

6.5k · June 24, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by Jomarac5:
Another possible solution would be to make paid membership mandatory -- I'll bet there'd be a lot fewer sock puppets if everyone had to pay 30 bucks to create one.

There'd also be few cachers

quote:
As for someone hiding behind a sock puppet veil because they are afraid to say something any other way -- if you are afraid to stand behind what you say then maybe it doesn't need to be said at all. Sorry, sbell111, using your example, if a cache is lame then either say so or don't say anything and live with it. If I visit a cache that I think is lame, I DON"T say it was a good cache.

Thats all good and fine for you (no offense), but not everyone does that. Look over the caches in your area, if its like most, the posts will tend to be sugar coated. I also notice a relutance to request a cache be archived, even if its obvious its gone.

quote:
Sock puppets show a lack of self respect, lack of a valid opinion, and are cowardly. Plain and simple.

Cowardly yea, the other things I disagree. If anonymous people lack valid opinion, then what am I to think of all those anonymous approvers floating around?

1.4k · June 24, 2003

I'm rather surprised (and find it refreshing) at the near absence of sock puppets posting to this thread. Perhaps we should have this discussion more often since they seem to have given up their 'right' to express themselves. Ha ha ha. Could be the start of something good...

*****

1.6k · June 24, 2003

I was hoping to see more Sock Puppets reply as to why they should have equal posting rights!

June 24, 2003

Sp's = automatic ignore!

2.7k · June 24, 2003

A waiting period, eh? Sounds a lot like GUN CONTROL to me. Accomplished nothing there, would accomplish nothing here.

(Let 'er RIP!) []

Caint never did nothing.

GDAE, Dave

1.6k · June 24, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by ChurchCampDave:
A waiting period, eh? Sounds a lot like GUN CONTROL to me. Accomplished nothing there, would accomplish nothing here.

Criminals typically can't access guns through normal channels like responsible folks. That's the issue here. Limiting access to the irresponsible.

Please let this NOT turn into another gun discussion.

June 24, 2003

okay i wanna jump in here with my 2 cents...

...nope..never mind. i just deleted everything i was going to say.

there are many valid reasons to set up and use a sock puppet.

if you dont like them, fine. that is your right.

changing your stance from longstanding obvious intolerance to supposedly 'humerous' good-natured trolling (ie: 'I was hoping to see more Sock Puppets reply as to why they should have equal posting rights!') is also your right.

i have 2 questions...

1) is it valid to say that people form a certain impression of someone by reading their posts?

my answer: of course!

2) how can people introduce an idea where the responses would not be influenced by that impression?

my answer: sock puppets!

-t-

June 24, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by geosockpuppet:
In response to this thread I have decided to create a sockpuppet.

I about p***ed myself when i got down to this one ................ great!!!!

June 24, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by Snoogans:

I come here to enjoy myself. Not to get a case of heartburn. Life's too short.

My point? If I ever start to take what anyone here says (Sock Puppet or not) too seriously, I will take a breather from that madness. I most definitely will not go around looking for something to get mad about, or try to get others to join me in an effort to restrict someone else.

And just who are you to drag "common sense" into this rant? Jeez, some people's kids!

1.6k · June 24, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by tkalen:

there are many valid reasons to set up and use a sock puppet.

Which are what?

No, seriously, I could learn something here perhaps.

quote:

changing your stance from longstanding obvious intolerance to supposedly 'humerous' good-natured trolling is also your right.

Haven't changed my stance at all. You sorta have taken what I said out of context. I remain of the opinion that sock puppets are an anonymous nuisance.

quote:

i have 2 questions...

1) is it valid to say that people form a certain impression of someone by reading their posts?

my answer: of course!

2) how can people introduce an idea where the responses would not be influenced by that impression?

my answer: sock puppets!

IF I understand you then, it's okay to introduce unpopular or inflammatory ideas anonymously if that should save your good reputation from being tarnished?

Look, this isn't life or death, but then again, 99% of these threads are likely about the same...

People have spoken, 50% or more say to ignore the puppets. I was just curious what the reasons are that puppets are okay.

June 24, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by canadazuuk:

quote:
Originally posted by tkalen:

there are many valid reasons to set up and use a sock puppet.

Which are what?

No, seriously, I could learn something here perhaps.

quote:

changing your stance from longstanding obvious intolerance to supposedly 'humerous' good-natured trolling is also your right.

Haven't changed my stance at all. You sorta have taken what I said out of context. I remain of the opinion that sock puppets are an anonymous nuisance.

quote:

i have 2 questions...

1) is it valid to say that people form a certain impression of someone by reading their posts?

my answer: of course!

2) how can people introduce an idea where the responses would not be influenced by that impression?

my answer: sock puppets!

IF I understand you then, it's okay to introduce unpopular or inflammatory ideas anonymously if that should save your good reputation from being tarnished?

Look, this isn't life or death, but then again, 99% of these threads are likely about the same...

People have spoken, 50% or more say to ignore the puppets. I was just curious what the reasons are that puppets are okay.

No, but perhaps a comment Jeremy wouldn't like.. for instance, questioning why David Ulmer isn't credited with placing the first cache on the Geocaching.com Credits page or something even more contraversial.

Jason Roysdon

jason.roysdon.net

1.6k · June 24, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by elmo-fried:

...perhaps a comment Jeremy wouldn't like.. for instance, questioning why David Ulmer isn't credited with placing the first cache...

That probably isn't representative of the majority of sock puppet posts, though your point is not lost on me.

June 24, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by canadazuuk:

IF I understand you then, it's okay to introduce unpopular or inflammatory ideas anonymously if that should save your good reputation from being tarnished?

nope...not even close.

the point of the two questions at the end of my previous post was to get people to think about how preconceived impressions about a person can affect how you respond to their posts.

it has nothing to do with 'protecting' ones reputation. simply a way to elicit responses not 'affected' by ones reputation.

if i am always a smartass, how will people respond on the one occasion i try to get serious? most likely as if i was still trying to be a smartass. why waste time and board space convincing people i am serious when i can create a sock puppet and start off fresh?

personally, i take everything i read with a grain of salt. we all have opinions and i find that very often i dont agree with what i read here. some responses i would personally consider rather ignorant. things i find no humor in, others find funny. things others see as a nuisance, i find hilarious.

YMMV

-t-

June 24, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by elmo-fried:

...perhaps a comment Jeremy wouldn't like.. for instance, questioning why David Ulmer isn't credited with placing the first cache...

jeremy can find out who the sock puppet is. if he doesnt like what is said, he can, and has, lock that person out completely without explaination.

-t-

1.6k · June 24, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by tkalen:
the point of the two questions at the end of my previous post was to get people to think about how preconceived impressions about a person can affect how you respond to their posts.

it has nothing to do with 'protecting' ones reputation. simply a way to elicit responses not 'affected' by ones reputation.

Thanks for sharing that, I had not looked at it that way. I guess I have to say that when I think of a sock puppet, I think of an anonymous nuisance; never expecting an anonymous enlightener, of which there surely are some.

It's the nuisance puppets that give sock puppetry a bad name then?

June 24, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by canadazuuk:
It's the nuisance puppets that give sock puppetry a bad name then?

well...yes..but like i said before, one persons 'nuisance' can be a lot of fun for someone else.

again...YMMV

-t-

1.6k · June 25, 2003

Okay, perhaps I have been fooled, but can anyone shed some light on long standing sock puppets, who appear on these pages regularly?

(I suppose you would have to have a sock puppet account set up if you were wanting to name them... unless you're the gutsy type)

1.7k · June 25, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by BrianSnat:
The only real way to do so would to be to not allow throwaway e-mail accounts like Yahoo and Hotmail.

Please don't encourage this as a solution. I hate the e-mail account that comes with my internet access (not user friendly) and I use both a free hotmail and a free yahoo account as my regular e-mail accounts. As you can see I am a legitimate user and not a troll/sock puppet. Just ignore them.

*********

Till a voice, as bad as Conscience, rang interminable changes

On one everlasting Whisper day and night repeated -- so:

"Something hidden. Go and find it. Go and look behind the Ranges --

"Something lost behind the Ranges. Lost and waiting for you. Go!"

Rudyard Kipling , The Explorer 1898

1.6k · June 25, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by Tsegi Mike and Desert Viking:

Please don't encourage this as a solution.

I know that I won't be, and I think Mr BS was just pointing out the ramifications of such an idea.

38.2k · June 25, 2003

quote:
Okay, perhaps I have been fooled, but can anyone shed some light on long standing sock puppets, who appear on these pages regularly?

Mrs. Nazz has been around for quite some time.

"Give a man a fish, he'll eat for a day. Teach a man to fish, he'll sit in a boat and drink beer all day" - Dave Barry

1.6k · June 25, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by BrianSnat:

Mrs. Nazz has been around for quite some time.

I wasn't asking about trolling...

1.5k · June 25, 2003

I'm not a sock puppet.

Sock puppets should be hunted down and destroyed.

1.7k · June 25, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by Mr. Snazz:
I'm not a sock puppet.

But there is a sock puppet named Mrs. Nazz, and that is to whom the original poster referred.

1.5k · June 25, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by Warm Fuzzies - Fuzzy:
But there is a sock puppet named Mrs. Nazz, and that is to whom the original poster referred.

Oh, my head! I'm soo confused

1.6k · June 25, 2003

The Legend of Mrs.Nazz is much bigger than the actual Nuisance of her being...

June 25, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by canadazuuk:

quote:
Originally posted by Team Kender:
It's completely amazing that rude little muggle-dorks don't show up more often than they do.

That's an interesting point.

So far, it seems that creating any means by which we could reduce sock puppets would not go over too well.

So now what?

Well, I'd say to go on with your life. My suggestion is if you see someone is obviously trolling, then ignore them. They can't thrive without other peoples input. Obviously some people like to feed them for amusement and it can create some long threads, which then spins off long threads about how to deal with long meaningless threads.

I agree with Jormorac that someone using a sock puppet to get a valid point across is undermining the validity of their statement by not being man or woman enough to stand behind their words under their own name. If that is the case then you ignore them as worthless just as you would the trolls.

Like I said before, I've been usenetting for a very long time and trolls used to get under my skin and I would want to expose them for who they are and kick their butts off their isps and all that stuff. But after a while I found the online world much more pleasing and less stressfull by just ignoring the dumb stuff and dumb people.

In my experience net cops have usually caused themselves more misery than have created justice for the internet. -To clarify; I'm not saying that you or anyone else here is net copping. I know the socks and trolls are annoying and you would like to find a way to swat them like flies and that is all great and fine. But if a person lets it bother them too much then it could get obsessive and they could start getting net coppy... spending all their time grumbling about this sock or that troll and how they will deal with it and so on.

Take it from one who has been there and done that, that you'll sleep easier at night just ignoring the stupid and annoying stuff. Or if you can't ignore it, take it for what it is and don't stress over it. -Dan

Team Kender - "The Sun is coming up!" "No, the horizon is going down."

9.4k · June 25, 2003

If you believe someone is a sock puppet, use the Jeremy Irish

Groundspeak - The Language of Location

June 25, 2003

Before we go any further, let's make sure we all are on the same page.

Here are the definitions:

TROLL: a person who posts an inflammatory remark specifically to elicit heated replies, or flames. Most often as a joke to get people riled up.

pseudonym: a pen name, fictious name made up to author messages. Also, called 'nym, pseudo, or handle.

Sock Puppet: a handle used by a person to support the argument made by the same person under a different handle in order to appear to have more than one person supporting the stated postion.

Sock PuppetAs used on geocaching.com: a person posting under a different handle than one they post finds/hides under. Typically, the sock puppet will have zero finds and zero hides.

So, as you can see a sock puppet can actually be something bad and if used like what it is typically used for is deceiving and should be despised.

However, an account used to hide a person's caching handle can be used for something other than hatefulness.

The reason I use a different 'nym than my caching handle is so I can query the forum on ideas I've had and not tip my hand to my fellow, local cachers. Simple as that. AFAICR, I've never posted under my sock puppet account to support or counter a post made under my caching handle. I have forgotten which account I was posting under and instead of going "oops" and then posting another under the right account I've adjusted the message and left it--that's probably the closest I've come to acting like a true sock puppet.

Yes, true sock puppets are vile and are to be despised.

If you want to come up with a title for the type handle that I'm using at the very minute, the handle that I use to insulate my true caching handle from the posts where I want to stay anonymous, then fine, let's make up something.

But please realize GeoSockPuppets and true sock puppets are two completely different things.

Thank you for your time.

Signed,

SE7EN

(Not my real name.)

1.8k · June 25, 2003

Alright now, all this talk about sock puppets being vile. How do you think that makes Lambchops feel, huh? Really I'm not trolling. I just thought it was funny, that's all. Humor, even bad humor can be fun, sometimes.

June 25, 2003

SPTP.

1.6k · June 25, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by SE7EN:

_Sock Puppet:_ a handle used by a person to support the argument made by the same person under a different handle in order to appear to have more than one person supporting the stated postion.

_Sock Puppet_As used on geocaching.com:__ a person posting under a different handle than one they post finds/hides under. Typically, the sock puppet will have zero finds and zero hides.

Because she knows that sometimes words have two meanings...

3k · June 25, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by Jeremy:
If you believe someone is a sock puppet, use the http://ubbx.Groundspeak.com/infopop/images3/topic_alert.gif icon in the bottom right hand corner of the post to report it. We can investigate to ensure someone isn't posting under a pseudoname.

I think this has been brought up before but I DESPISE SOCK PUPPETS. If I see them I will ban them, and if it gets out of hand I will ban the original account as well. This forum was not designed to facilitate childlike actions like instigating people for fun. Discuss geocaching and don't be a hairless rat.

I don't know where this discussion is going but it seems to be going nowhere. If we know about possible sock puppets we will take appropriate action. It's lame, childish, and counterproductive.

Jeremy Irish

Groundspeak - The Language of Location

Well said.

I have to say that this is my favorite quote of the day:

"Discuss geocaching and don't be a hairless rat."

So all of you hairless rats out there, get a life,

______________________________________________________________________________________

Caching without a clue....

1.6k · June 25, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by umc:

So all of you hairless rats out there, get a life.

I thought Jeremy was referring to my Geraldo likenesses. Seeing as I am prone to use the phrase 'rat's butt'.

Where is the close button?

It's not good to have two of your threads at the top at the same time, though I claim no responsibilty for the other one getting dredged up.

3k · June 25, 2003

Wow, you remind me of ummm well ME.

I think you've posted 100 times today. good job.

______________________________________________________________________________________

Caching without a clue....

24.7k · June 25, 2003

Man am I confused. How is a sock puppet different than say a regular who is rather rude at times? Both seem to have something to say. Why is the difference even worth worrying about?

Maybe I'm just clueless on this. Ok I am clueless. I woudn't be able to recognize a sock puppet from shinola.

=====================

Wherever you go there you are.

3k · June 25, 2003

The difference is that I'm rude and I'm not a scared cat to hide it behind some made up account like the 'sock puppet'.

______________________________________________________________________________________

Caching without a clue....

1.6k · June 25, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by Renegade Knight:

Man am I confused. How is a sock puppet different than say a regular who is rather rude at times?

Our vision has become muddied...

At least we know who the rude person is. They don't get to be both a nice person that we know, and a rude person that hurls from dark and hidden places.

(Though many complaints associated with sock puppets can be applied to regular accounts as well, or so it seems...)

1.6k · June 25, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by umc:

The difference is that I'm rude and I'm not a scared cat to hide it behind some made up account like the 'sock puppet'.

I thought you weren't a scarred rat?

1.6k · June 25, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by Team Kender:

Like I said before, I've been usenetting for a very long time and trolls used to get under my skin and I would want to expose them for who they are and kick their butts off their isps and all that stuff. But after a while I found the online world much more pleasing and less stressfull by just ignoring the dumb stuff and dumb people.

I have only taken part in online forums for about 2.5 years, and I have not come across puppets like here... but then again, this is a forward moving site, and it's been said that you know you're moving forward when you feel resistance on your cheek...

I have apologized before for my OWN dumb stuff, and I certainly don't endorse netcopism, but once in awhile we need someone to give our heads a shake...

June 25, 2003

Good thing I only check / read the forums once a week or every second week. All this blah, blah, blah. Where's it going? Who cares about the sock-puppets anyway? Unless of course you are an admin? Maybe you are that "cache-advance" admin character here in BC who mysteriously puts all new caches on hold for a couple of days for no apparent reason and with no e-mail and explanation. But not all caches I might add. It seems Mr.Gigabytes' get approved rather quickly as the date his caches are placed and the date they become visible on the site are the same. Everyone else's has that 2+ day delay. But maybe he's the only one changing the date. Who knows. Wow, now this is getting totally off-topic. I'm probably gonna get a ton of responses going on and on and on attacking me for this response. Then all the sock-puppets will come out and some will defend me and some will attack me some more. And then maybe I'll get a few of my own sock-puppet accounts setup and stir the whole thing up some more, blah, blah, blah.

Wow, I must still be in that weird mood from work. My boss sure did p*ss me off today! ;-)

June 25, 2003

quote:
Unless of course you are an admin? Maybe you are that "cache-advance" admin character

Ooops, forgot to mention. The Cache-Advance account has 0 hides and 0 finds. Mysterious sock-puppet that! ;-)

June 25, 2003

Robert M wrote

quote:
Ooops, forgot to mention. The Cache-Advance account has 0 hides and 0 finds. Mysterious sock-puppet that! ;-)

I always did find it interesting how cops or should we say Geo-cops have their own set of rules.

1.6k · June 25, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by RobertM:

All this blah, blah, blah. Where's it going? Who cares about the sock-puppets anyway?

Well, if sock puppets didn't also troll and cause so much controversy, maybe NO one would care. Is it really that big of a deal at the end of a real day? No. But as I said, not much in these forums IS a big deal at the end of a real day anyway. Why is a discussion about sock puppets any different than the nonsense we call 'continue the story by 5 words'?

RobertM, we need to cache again. Wanna go the the island????

SOCK PUPPETS BE GONE!!! RESPONSIBLE CACHERS UNITE AGAINST THIS WASTE OF TIME!!!

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