Your thoughts on mystery geocaches

[+GeoElmo6000]

What are your thoughts on mystery caches, such as:

• What do you like about the cache type?
• What don't you like / what could be improved about the cache type?
• What are some unintended issues with the cache type that probably weren't foreseen when this type was created?

[+vw_k]

I like mystery caches. I like the fact that the cache type is a bit of a "catch all" for caches that don't fit in other categories but that still follow the guidelines. It allows people to get creative with their hides.

Sure there are plenty of mystery type caches that I'll never be able to find for certain reasons but that's life, there's plenty of other caches that are beyone my ability too (a hard climb, puzzle I can't solve, needing a boat etc etc).

[+TeamRabbitRun]

I only own a handful of caches, but several of them are classed as 'Mysteries'.

 

This is an interesting question because 'M' caches are the catch-all. Might be field puzzles, homework puzzles, or anything else that doesn't fit into one of the other categories, so it's entirely likely that any single cacher would have wildly distinct opinions of each of the 'sub-types'. Maybe you hate sitting at home at a computer reading Wikipedia entries or looking up what Spock said in some episode, but you LOVE looking at historical markers and turning the year of the Jonestown Flood into a vector!

 

Tough to describe. 

 

For me, I like most sub-species of Mystery Caches. I get very bored with yet another effing guardrail cache, LPCs drive me nutz and my personal nemesis is a 'Bison Tube in a Pine Tree'. I really like caches where you have to do stuff when you get there, or prepare ahead of time (if I know where I'm going and have time to plan). If I can't make a find today, I LIKE being frustrated because I don't have time or enough information and have to go back when I can. A better feeling of accomplishment when I finally snag it.

 

It's apparent from my find count that my Team Cap'n & I aren't 'numbers cachers' at all, and we ain't playin' Pokemon.

 

Interesting, wacky hides? Strange virtual requirements? Bring 'em on.

[+thebruce0]

Well, remember the cache type is also really more of a catch-all than a specific definition. Its definition is more like what's left after the other cache types have been defined

So... I like'em. At least it gives somewhat of a flexible room for creativity.

[+niraD]

3 hours ago, GeoElmo6000 said:

What are your thoughts on mystery caches, such as:

• What do you like about the cache type?
• What don't you like / what could be improved about the cache type?
• What are some unintended issues with the cache type that probably weren't foreseen when this type was created?

Yes, the mystery/puzzle type is a catch-all. And the only caches on my ignore list have been mystery/puzzle caches (challenge caches within my "blast radius" that I don't expect to ever qualify for). But with that said...

 

I love puzzle caches, and when I travel and I have time, I try to solve a few puzzle caches in the area around my destination before my trip.

 

I enjoy bonus caches when the series itself was fun. But I enjoy multi-caches too.

 

I enjoy Challenge caches with interesting challenges. Yeah, that's really subjective. The ones I was actually working on before we moved across the country were a USGS quadrangle challenge (grandfathered, as these kinds of location-based challenges are no longer allowed) and a bingo challenge (where one "bingo" of 5 sub-challenges looked approachable).

 

Many of my Favorites have been mystery/puzzle caches, especially epic multi-stage puzzles that take a few hours and are often found be small teams working together to solve all the puzzles at the non-final stages.

[+barefootjeff]

I have a bit of a Jekyll and Hyde relationship with mystery caches, or should I say specifically puzzle caches. Many of them I've really enjoyed working through the logical steps of solving the puzzle, but others (particularly D4 and higher) my eyes just glaze over and, even after being given some pretty big hints, often can't see how anyone could have gotten to the solution without the hint. Other people do, though, so I guess it's just a skill I haven't mastered.

 

My biggest gripe with puzzle caches is that, once solved and found, the location on all the geocaching maps reverts to the unsolved coordinates so, as a CO or when planning group trips, I can't see where all those solved-and-found puzzles are any more. Apparently it does this so people can admire their completed geoart, but around here there's no geoart and all the mystery caches are just plain old mystery caches for which there's no point at all in having them revert to their unsolved coordinates.

[+MNTA]

7 hours ago, GeoElmo6000 said:

What are your thoughts on mystery caches, such as:

• What do you like about the cache type?
• What don't you like / what could be improved about the cache type?
• What are some unintended issues with the cache type that probably weren't foreseen when this type was created?

 

I have a love hate relationship. 985 finds of which 743 were challenges. Currently have 628 mystery caches on my ignore list. Don't get me wrong, I have.enjoyed many a puzzle but some are simply super obtuse and I don't care enough to try to figure out how to even start let alone solve. I HATE to beg the CO for hints and suggestions. If the puzzle is older forget about it, no checker and no finds in years not going to waste my time. Really dislike if the CO is no longer active, can't bug the CO so ask for help from a previous signer and sometimes they don't remember and just give you the solution. What's the point? My metro area has 7 unsolved/found mystery caches dating back 7-10 years with an inactive CO and no checker, permanent additions to the ignore list.

 

I love the logic puzzle type of caches. Sudoku or Crosswords are fun maybe a simple google search of trivia on 80s tv shows. I am hopelessly addicted to challenge caches. Currently signed 99 that are in various states of active working on some will never qualify and that is ok. I prefer the grandfathered ones over the X number of attribute challenges. I spent hours upon hours watching music videos trying to find a snapshot of a guitar player with a planet on his head (Solved that one!!!!!).

 

I truly dislike that default toggle switches of the map show unsolved mysteries. I want to be able to easily see the ones I've solved plus the challenges which are by rule at the posted coordinates. The app should be able to show just the ones I can find today. But toggling the "updated coordinate" disables traditionals, which are by default solved. I just checked looks like that feature is now gone. Fine I still would like to be able to see just the caches which I can find today so unless I'm specifically in the mood to go after a mystery cache they all get turned off.

 

Next issue I am passionate about is mystery caches significantly complicates the hiding experience. Really wish this could be improved. 

 

 

[+JL_HSTRE]

I'm fine with puzzles as a concept, especially when originally introduced. 

 

I think as a cache type it's too broad. It encompasses solve at home puzzles and field puzzles, single stage and multistage. There are disagreements about what should or shouldn't be a Mystery (as opposed to another type).

 

I still think Night Caches and  Challenges should have gotten separate types instead just an Attribute.

 

I'm disappointed how often a Mystery is in a lame location. I understand the CO doesn't want to "waste a good location" on a cache that will be found infrequently, but I'd rather there be no caches in lame locations.

 

It's difficult to prepare for Mystery caches. I've solved lots of puzzles I never got around to searching for, and had to skip puzzles I hadn't solved in advance. Other than puzzles close to your home coords it's hard to predict when or if you'll get a chance to seek a solved puzzle. And that's assuming advance preparation, which I think most geocachers don't do.

 

The internet had enabled sharing of solution lists, which I think results in too many people bypassing the challenge. 

[+barefootjeff]

17 minutes ago, JL_HSTRE said:

I'm disappointed how often a Mystery is in a lame location. I understand the CO doesn't want to "waste a good location" on a cache that will be found infrequently, but I'd rather there be no caches in lame locations.

 

I seem to have the opposite problem, with many caches in great locations around northern Sydney and the Hawkesbury River that have a difficult (often D4+) puzzle to solve before I can get to them. My own puzzle caches are inspired by the location, for example my Dentist's Delight puzzle (GC9BBJE), based on the various tooth numbering schemes used around the world, was inspired by the cache location in a honeycombed sandstone cave that looks like a mouth full of cavities.

 

 

[+niraD]

34 minutes ago, JL_HSTRE said:

I still think Night Caches and  Challenges should have gotten separate types instead just an Attribute.

I agree with Challenge Caches. They have outgrown the "staging ground" role of the mystery/puzzle type, and have matured into their own type.

 

I'm less certain about Night Caches. A very few are actually traditionals (light sensors providing access only at night). Many are multi-caches (start here and follow the trail to the final) and others are puzzle caches (some of my Favorites have been in this category). Groundspeak has said that today, the Letterbox Hybrid type would have been an attribute (Letterbox Stamp), and I think Night Caches are similar. Other than the fact that they are intended to be done at night, they still vary quite a bit.

[+JL_HSTRE]

7 hours ago, niraD said:

I'm less certain about Night Caches. A very few are actually traditionals (light sensors providing access only at night). Many are multi-caches (start here and follow the trail to the final) and others are puzzle caches (some of my Favorites have been in this category). Groundspeak has said that today, the Letterbox Hybrid type would have been an attribute (Letterbox Stamp), and I think Night Caches are similar. Other than the fact that they are intended to be done at night, they still vary quite a bit.

 

I agree Letterbox would be better of as an Attribute. 

 

My reason for separate Night Caches:

 

1. Uncertainty about whether to list them as Multis or Mysteries.

 

2. Night Caches are intended to be done at night, which is the exact opposite of almost every other cache. Most other caches are very difficult at night, and many are in locations closed at night.

 

3. With rare exceptions involving very restricted access hours or some rare circumstances, Night Caches are the only caches you can't do on the fly. You could stop and solve almost puzzle in the field if you really wanted to. A sufficiently extensive could give you the TOTT you need even without advance preparation. But you can't make it night unless you've got a Tardis.

[+BirdSearcher]

2 hours ago, JL_HSTRE said:

Night Caches are the only caches you can't do on the fly.

Not always the case…I have done several night caches in the daytime by using geosenses & powers of deduction

 

I do agree though with a separate cache type (and also for challenges)

Edited August 30, 2023 by BirdSearcher

[+Goldenwattle]

On 8/29/2023 at 7:07 AM, barefootjeff said:

(particularly D4 and higher) my eyes just glaze over

That's how I feel, and a high percentage of caches here in Canberra are high rated. The result, I don't do many of them. I open the cache page, see the stars, 'my eyes glaze over' and I close the page and dismiss that cache.

[+Team Bullis]

I agree with the note about mystery caches returning to their original coordinates once found.  They shouldn't do that in my opinion, as now if I want to put out another cache in that area, I may not remember that the mystery final was there.  I agree that geoart should go back together, so why not just return to the original coords if the geoart attribute is chosen?

 

 

[+MartyBartfast]

They're OK, but I don't like it when the objective becomes to solve the puzzle as opposed to find the box, by which I mean very convoluted/complex puzzles which can take ages but then the cache is a trivial drive by.

 

Being a "catch all" type means it's a bit of a mess, maybe it's time to categorize these separately:

• proper puzzles which needs something working out.
• Bonuses which just require finding a few pre-requisite cache.
• Challenges, which require qualification.

 

It's intensely annoying that the caches revert to the published co-ords once solved. Caches should always be displayed on the map at the co-ords on the cache page, then if anyone cares so much about seeing a picture on the map they can remove the corrected co-ords, meanwhile those of us who want to see the real location could keep the corrected coords  - everyone is happy.

 

 

 

[+CAVinoGal]

24 minutes ago, MartyBartfast said:

It's intensely annoying that the caches revert to the published co-ords once solved. Caches should always be displayed on the map at the co-ords on the cache page, then if anyone cares so much about seeing a picture on the map they can remove the corrected co-ords, meanwhile those of us who want to see the real location could keep the corrected coords  - everyone is happy.

 

It's been said many times in this forum, and elsewhere (conversations at events and between geocaching friends...) - a toggle that would show posted or solved at the users discretion would be valuable to many.  Make it a premium perk (as basic members don't even see those puzzles/mysteries ont he app map anyway!) if needed.  It seems it was an option at one point (or maybe it was in an app I used, not the official one?).  This would be a very useful tool to me.

[+paleolith]

I think I've found four desk-puzzle caches. I solved three, but one of those I found totally by accident while not even geocaching. I found Queen of Swag without solving the puzzle -- maybe it's solvable, but I spent a few minutes on it and then realized that everything I needed was in the description.

 

I majored in math and had a career in computer programming. Desk puzzles are too much like work. And they keep me inside when I really need to be outside more.

[+geodarts]

A friend of mine once said that a certain puzzle cache would be easier if I added trigonometry to my repertoire.  However since purposefully I chose a profession that did not require higher math I saw no reason to do that for the sake of this game.   
 

I also began to get tired of either doing busy work or following someone else’s strained logic so at some point I filtered puzzles out of the search result.  After a stroke I began to do some puzzles for brain rehab, but most caching puzzles only give me a headache. 

Edited September 23, 2023 by geodarts

[+Oxford Stone]

I love a puzzle cache (just don't make me do another Jigidi) - I have found 1403 "?"s and put out 72. Some are a bit lame or obtuse but many are cleverly constructed and teach you something.

[+Om_and_Nom]

Full transparency - for the most part, I don't like them.  I'm all for a good challenge or riddle, but some of these mystery cache's have references that are so obscure, some of the puzzles are so insanely difficult...if you ask the cache owner for a hint, you may find out they have not been active in YEARS.  Then you look at the logs, and it was last found 3 years ago.  Heck, even if you *think* you solved it and go to GZ and it's not there...is the cache missing or did you get it wrong?  You may never know.  Being a bit of a completionist, it just sticks in my craw when this kind of thing happens.  

Edited September 30, 2023 by Om_and_Nom

[+JL_HSTRE]

On 9/20/2023 at 1:55 AM, paleolith said:

I majored in math and had a career in computer programming. Desk puzzles are too much like work. And they keep me inside when I really need to be outside more.

 

This hits the ugly nail squarely on the head, for most puzzles and many Earthcaches too.

 

If a math major and computer programmer - already a rare mindset - thinks puzzles are too much work what chance do normal geocachers have?

 

The sad truth is most people want to shut their brain down whenever possible. Most by choice, because thinking is hard. Some by necessity, because they feel it's the only way to relax from the stresses of their day job.

 

That pretty much leaves retirees with no job to escape and a desire to keep their mind sharp, puzzle-headed weenies and other uber-nerds, and people with disorders like ADHD where they can't shut their brain off even if they want to.

 

It would be interesting to see if certain kinds of puzzles are disproportionately more popular than others. I'm guessing jigsaws are the most popular by a large margin.

[+CAVinoGal]

11 hours ago, JL_HSTRE said:

That pretty much leaves retirees with no job to escape and a desire to keep their mind sharp, puzzle-headed weenies and other uber-nerds, and people with disorders like ADHD where they can't shut their brain off even if they want to.

 

Whew!  I'm glad I fit into the first category - retiree with a desire to keep my mind sharp - as the way you describe the rest of the people who enjoy puzzles isn't very complimentary, and I've enjoyed puzzles even BEFORE I retired!!!

 

I enjoy word puzzles, ciphers, SOME logic puzzles, and some math puzzles (but hubby is better with the numbers than I am).  SOMETIMES I enjoy having to figure out what kind of a puzzle it is before I can even begin to solve it.  Like a series of photos with no other clue except maybe the title of the cache...  I enjoy finding caches, and keeping my % of traditionals below 75%, so I will spend time solving a "geo-art" of puzzles that end up being tedious at times (highlight, copy, paste the white on white text, over and over; or reading wiki articles on National Parks or music greats to fill in coordinates) to find a series of caches in an area.

 

So, yeah, when we are headed to an area away from home, I will look at what puzzles are in the area (and now we have Adventure Lab bonuses, so that clues me to look for the Adventure Labs too!) and try to solve them ahead of time.  We don't always get there, but those puzzle pieces are on the map if we happen to be in the neighborhood.

[+baer2006]

11 hours ago, JL_HSTRE said:

That pretty much leaves retirees with no job to escape and a desire to keep their mind sharp, puzzle-headed weenies and other uber-nerds, and people with disorders like ADHD where they can't shut their brain off even if they want to.

Basically, this is a cheap insult of everyone, who likes to do puzzles and is not retired. I don't think, that was necessary .

[+barefootjeff]

11 hours ago, JL_HSTRE said:

That pretty much leaves retirees with no job to escape and a desire to keep their mind sharp, puzzle-headed weenies and other uber-nerds, and people with disorders like ADHD where they can't shut their brain off even if they want to.

 

It would be interesting to see if certain kinds of puzzles are disproportionately more popular than others. I'm guessing jigsaws are the most popular by a large margin.

 

I'm also a retiree and probably an uber-nerd as well, but my eyes tend to glaze over on a lot of puzzles rated D4 or higher. Unless I can see a way forward within the first fifteen to twenty minutes, it'll likely go on the back-burner. On the other hand, jigsaws are probably my least favourite puzzle, particularly the ones with hundreds of pieces all a similar shade of grey. It's just time-consuming tedium and I'd rather watch the cricket, mow the lawn or clean the bathroom.

 

With one exception (a D4 that in hindsight wasn't such a great idea), I try to make my puzzles straightforward and hopefully a bit of fun, with additional hints in places like html comments or image EXIF data, and then use a physical cache and/or location that follows the theme of the puzzle. Here's a few recent examples:

• A Cow Named Anne (GC9JDPF), a simple maze to traverse that spells out the coordinates and leads to a cow in the suburb Cowan.
• A Dentist's Delight (GC9BBJE) uses tooth-numbering schemes to encode the coordinates leading to a "filling" in a (cave) mouth full of cavities.
• Xanthorrhoea Flowers (GCA3Q55) has its coordinates encoded in the flower colours, with the cache in amongst a grove of xanthorrhoea (Australian grass trees).
• Dead Stars (GCA4AG7), an astronomical puzzle about classifying a bunch of dead stars as white dwarfs, neutron stars or black holes. The cache, a coffin containing some dead stars, is hidden inside a black hole.
• Kirk to Enterprise (GCAA6Z4) involves finding a hot-spot in an image then translating Klingon characters into numerals. The cache, containing a model Enterprise, is located on Kirks Hill.

[+JL_HSTRE]

37 minutes ago, baer2006 said:

Basically, this is a cheap insult of everyone, who likes to do puzzles and is not retired. I don't think, that was necessary .

 

"Puzzle-headed weenie" and "nerd" are not intended as insults. I've heard people who love puzzles self-describe as the former, and I self-describe as the latter.

 

Let's face it: people who enjoy puzzles are in a very small minority - in geocaching or anywhere.

[+GeoTrekker26]

Which is ironic because in one sense every geocache is a puzzle. 

[+arisoft]

On 8/28/2023 at 5:54 PM, GeoElmo6000 said:

What do you like about the cache type?

 

I like them. If I have opportunity to find either a traditional or a mystery, I will find the mystery.

 

On 8/28/2023 at 5:54 PM, GeoElmo6000 said:

What don't you like / what could be improved about the cache type?

 

Mystery caches are surplus type of caches not suitable for other cache types. It is difficult to suggest improvements from a such basis because almost anything goes.

 

On 8/28/2023 at 5:54 PM, GeoElmo6000 said:

What are some unintended issues with the cache type that probably weren't foreseen when this type was created?

 

I don't recall any issues specific to this cache type.

[+thebruce0]

18 hours ago, JL_HSTRE said:

Let's face it: people who enjoy puzzles are in a very small minority - in geocaching or anywhere.

That is one heck of a sweeping statement with no basis in facts, just biased perception. "Puzzles" is way too broad a label, and you're making the enormously successful business of puzzles books, for example, to effectively be a sham. 
Puzzles aren't for everyone, of course. But guaranteed, people who like "puzzles" like some form of puzzles, and I'd wager that most people like "puzzles" in some manner or another. The problem in geocaching is that people want the find in many cases more than the work needed to attain that smiley.  That's an entirely different type of concern.

[+fuzziebear3]

On 9/20/2023 at 1:55 AM, paleolith said:

 

I majored in math and had a career in computer programming. Desk puzzles are too much like work. And they keep me inside when I really need to be outside more.

 

 

HAHA, I majored in math/computer science, and have a career in computer programming.   I love puzzles, this is the way my brain works   I like my job.   But I do still want to get outside more when I can. 

 

 

[+Oxford Stone]

https://www.geocaching.com/plan/lists/BM2P972?sort=name&sortOrder=asc&skip=0&take=200 a series of geeky puzzles in SE England. Some need programming skills; most don't. 

[+terratin]

Good question... I hate mystery caches when I travel somewhere and pretty much all caches in town are mysteries. I just don't want to sit around at home and solve puzzles of whatever type to find a micro under a garbage bin if I can do the micro under the bin without a puzzle. Well thought out puzzles are fine, but of the 'I'm so clever and you'll never guess the answer', jiggedy or 'google facts about a tv show I never heard about' just don't appeal to me at all. Challenges are fine. Bonus caches.. depends. I hardly ever do adlabs or power trails of sorts. But a nice hike with nice containers here and there, and then a final big bonus cache: yeah.

[+Goldenwattle]

 

2 hours ago, terratin said:

I hate mystery caches when I travel somewhere

 

 

Last trip to Europe I didn't go to Czechia because all the caches were puzzles where I was going to visit. I was on a river cruise and we had optional day tours to Czechia and Slovakia. I took the one to Slovakia because there were caches there I was capable of finding. I found eight. Where the tour was going to in Czechia all the caches available to me on the tour were puzzles, so I didn't go. Wasn't impressed, and was disappointed😢. Stayed behind and went on a long walk by myself, which I prefer than organised tours. But I overlooked the tour bit to get the caches in Slovakia, and would have done the same for Czechia.

[+thebruce0]

I only don't mind puzzles while traveling if it's a legit puzzle (accurate DT, eg) and it's a cache I neeeeeeed for some challenge Then I might put effort into solving it.

Or I'll find it if I'm with someone who has solved it. But I'll still want to know or learn the solution for my own edification = )