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terratin

Event with no participant: log or not?

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I've just had an event published for which I hope at least one other cacher will show up (of course with distancing and all). If nobody else shows up would you log your own event or just archive it unattended? My thought is that it's not really an event if nobody else is there and thus would not log it myself. Curious of your opinions on this.

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5 minutes ago, terratin said:

I've just had an event published for which I hope at least one other cacher will show up (of course with distancing and all). If nobody else shows up would you log your own event or just archive it unattended? My thought is that it's not really an event if nobody else is there and thus would not log it myself. Curious of your opinions on this.

I would archive it unattended.

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If I went to a published event and nobody else turned up I would still log it as attended whether or not I was the organiser.

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The Help Center does state this:

 

The geocacher who owns the Event Cache page must attend the event in person.

 

What if they don't?

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2 minutes ago, Max and 99 said:

The Help Center does state this:

 

The geocacher who owns the Event Cache page must attend the event in person.

 

What if they don't?

Yeah, that's an interesting one. Of course something unplanned can always happen that prevents the owner from attending. Then I would probably still log as found; certainly if other people were there as well.

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I've had a few of these. All were in rather remote locations. I made sure I could be there and I was. Since I attended, I logged an "attended" log.

 

 

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1 hour ago, terratin said:

I've just had an event published for which I hope at least one other cacher will show up (of course with distancing and all).

If nobody else shows up would you log your own event or just archive it unattended?

My thought is that it's not really an event if nobody else is there and thus would not log it myself. Curious of your opinions on this.

 

We'd do the same, not log attended.   We feel an event means at least another person in attendance.   :)   

 

We have noticed that some seem to plan events with the idea of  no one showing.  Vacationer "come meet us!" events mostly.

Stats I guess, so maybe it depends if you're only about the smiley ?

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28 minutes ago, cerberus1 said:

 

We'd do the same, not log attended.   We feel an event means at least another person in attendance.   :)   

 

We have noticed that some seem to plan events with the idea of  no one showing.  Vacationer "come meet us!" events mostly.

Stats I guess, so maybe it depends if you're only about the smiley ?

Yeah, guaranteed to get that smiley in a country where there aren't any where your itinerary will take you.  Poor form, in my opinion.

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2 hours ago, terratin said:

Yeah, that's an interesting one. Of course something unplanned can always happen that prevents the owner from attending. Then I would probably still log as found; certainly if other people were there as well.

 

I had posted a "will attend" log for an event that was taking place during an overnight layover in Cancun on the way to Cuba.  The location was about a 10 minute walk away from the hotel I was staying at.  The day before I left, the event owner, who lives in France and apparently works at an airline, sent me a PM indicating that he wouldn't be able to get on a flight so was cancelling the event.  I offered to host it for him, but he not only cancelled it, he had the listing retracted.  I walked right by the location on the way to another cache just a bit further down the road.  

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1 hour ago, cerberus1 said:

We have noticed that some seem to plan events with the idea of  no one showing.  Vacationer "come meet us!" events mostly.


I’ve attended a few events on vacation and I’ve hosted a few of my own.  Holding an event away from home is always a bit of a gamble (with no local mates to rely on) but I’ve never come across anybody who’s planned an event with the idea that no one will show.

 

55 minutes ago, ecanderson said:

Yeah, guaranteed to get that smiley in a country where there aren't any where your itinerary will take you.  Poor form, in my opinion.


Poor form to host the event or, as the OP asks, to log attendance if no one else comes?

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Sometimes things don't go as planned.

The first event I hosted was in Greenland and I was 10 minutes late, a few people were already there.

After that success I planned 3 events, one on each of the islands we stayed. Only at one of these we met 2 US caches who had little time as they were on an organized tour and had to be at the dock a little later.

I tried an event again when we were in the Falklands, again no one showed up but I knew someone was supposed to be there, we met at our B&B the next day.

The most difficult thing with these holiday meetings is finding a good spot in a place we've never been, thaks to GE and streetview or websites with photographs all 5 of our locations were logical and easy to get to and pick a time when most or all activities have ended.

We also checked how may times nearby caches get logged to have an idea how often cachers pass by but even then there are no guarantees.

Another time in Amsterdam we were taking notes for an earthcache when we noticed another couple with a GPS, a bit later more people with GPS's showed up, we were at the location of an holiday event by accident (right time, right place) to sign the log and log a few TBs.

 

I don't think many will create an event to "bag" a country, even at the remote places we held them we found most nearby caches so we "bagged" the country without the event anyway.

 

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2 hours ago, cerberus1 said:

 

We'd do the same, not log attended.   We feel an event means at least another person in attendance.   :)   

 

We have noticed that some seem to plan events with the idea of  no one showing.  Vacationer "come meet us!" events mostly.

Stats I guess, so maybe it depends if you're only about the smiley ?

 

Yeah, I'm tempted to do just that. I'm holding an event as I've held off hosting an evening since sometime in February. Would be nice to talk to other cachers again. I'm sure people will show up, but if not then I likely won't log it as it just feels wrong.

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37 minutes ago, on4bam said:

I don't think many will create an event to "bag" a country, even at the remote places we held them we found most nearby caches so we "bagged" the country without the event anyway.

 

 

I kind of have the feeling that reviewers won't publish some of those, especially on airports and cruise terminals for the 'been here, got the smiley' events. Thus we'd never know how common those really are. But that something in that respect was added to the guidelines a few years ago suggests that it might have been a bigger problem.

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2 minutes ago, terratin said:

 

I kind of have the feeling that reviewers won't publish some of those, especially on airports and cruise terminals for the 'been here, got the smiley' events. Thus we'd never know how common those really are. But that something in that respect was added to the guidelines a few years ago suggests that it might have been a bigger problem.

Too many uncertainties at airports or other transportation locations. I think it's best that the EO can guarantee to be at the location (except this year :wacko: ).

In the Galapagos we were near the locations for a week, in the Falklands 3 days. We would have loved to do the same during other holidays but if we can't be 99.9999% sure we'll be there, we'll pass.

 

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1 hour ago, IceColdUK said:


I’ve attended a few events on vacation and I’ve hosted a few of my own.  Holding an event away from home is always a bit of a gamble (with no local mates to rely on) but I’ve never come across anybody who’s planned an event with the idea that no one will show.

 


Poor form to host the event or, as the OP asks, to log attendance if no one else comes?

The latter.

 

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2 hours ago, IceColdUK said:


Poor form to host the event or, as the OP asks, to log attendance if no one else comes?

 

Yeah, good question, right? I'd normally be sure of a few attendants, but this is 2020. Everything is possible this year, including dinosaurs from space showing up, a volcano appearing right underneath the event location, killer wasps, or no other cachers in the area. :laughing:

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I would log it as attended. I think it would be important information for someone that was trying to attend or thinking about attending, but then didn't make it. "Whew! Good thing I decided not to go. The host didn't even show up!"

 

On the secondary discussion: yes, it's poor form to create an event just so you can claim a find there. So don't create an event like that regardless of what your plans are for logging it if no one shows up.

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I log my own even if they are a bust.  I've seen a few seemingly associated with very short layovers at a port terminal on a cruise ship.  "Any Nicaraguan geocachers?  WE will be at the Port from 11:00AM to 11:05AM" (I know there's a minimum time, but that seems to be the intent)

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33 minutes ago, dprovan said:

I would log it as attended. I think it would be important information for someone that was trying to attend or thinking about attending, but then didn't make it. "Whew! Good thing I decided not to go. The host didn't even show up!"

Could as easily be covered with a "Write Note" with commentary that said essentially just that.

 

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8 hours ago, ecanderson said:

Could as easily be covered with a "Write Note" with commentary that said essentially just that.

What's the point? If you want to say you attended, log attended. I don't see the logic of logging a note to say "I attended!"

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When I create events, there are usually three groups of people: those that log a "Will Attend" right away (first day or so), those that log a "Will Attend" just before event (24 hours or so), and those that never log that they're going to attend.  I would just go to the event as maybe people will attend.

 

The only time I canceled an event was when I was planning a paddle event; since no one said they were going to attend, for safety reasons I canceled it.  I wasn't going to go paddling at this location by myself, it was some distance away.

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6 hours ago, dprovan said:

What's the point? If you want to say you attended, log attended. I don't see the logic of logging a note to say "I attended!"

So as to avoid being the only 'Attended' at your own event. 

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21 hours ago, ecanderson said:

Yeah, guaranteed to get that smiley in a country where there aren't any where your itinerary will take you.  Poor form, in my opinion.

 

If I were going to a country for the first time, as a geocacher I'd love to be able to log that country and add it to my stats.  But if my itinerary won't take me near a cache that I can find in the time that I have, I'd consider setting up an event so that I could log that country.  I was in the country, why not be able to get credit for being there?  Events are open to everyone (one of my favorite things about geocaching) and so anyone who was interested and was able to attend has the option.  And since events need two weeks minimum publication time, everyone has a fair chance to attend, nothing is last minute or exclusive to a certain social media group or anything.  If no one else does attend, well, at least I tried and everyone was invited.

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9 minutes ago, GeoElmo6000 said:

I'd consider setting up an event so that I could log that country.  I was in the country, why not be able to get credit for being there?


I’d like to think the primary intent of any event would be to actually meet other cachers, rather than simply ticking off the country, but otherwise I’m with you.

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1 minute ago, IceColdUK said:


I’d like to think the primary intent of any event would be to actually meet other cachers, rather than simply ticking off the country, but otherwise I’m with you.

 

I agree with you.  If you look at any of my 40 events (out of 107 hides ) you'll see that my events are about getting geocachers together.  I'm just saying that if I visit a country that I've never been to as a geocacher AND I don't think I'll be able to find a cache in the time I'm there, I'd want stats credit for actually being there.  I would always love for others to attend, which is why I said what I said before about events and their publish times and inclusiveness.  It's rare enough for me to go to a new country as it is (I only have 3 outside of my home country) so I'd like to add to that list for my own benefit.  

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I wouldn't create an event just to get a new country, if there are so little caches to be found chances are no one shows up anyway. The primary idea is always to at least meet a fellow cacher preferably a local but another tourist is OK too B).

 

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19 hours ago, terratin said:

 

Yeah, good question, right? I'd normally be sure of a few attendants, but this is 2020. Everything is possible this year, including dinosaurs from space showing up, a volcano appearing right underneath the event location, killer wasps, or no other cachers in the area. :laughing:

 

Asteroid heading our way right before [US] election day.

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1 hour ago, GeoElmo6000 said:
22 hours ago, ecanderson said:

Yeah, guaranteed to get that smiley in a country where there aren't any where your itinerary will take you.  Poor form, in my opinion.

 

If I were going to a country for the first time, as a geocacher I'd love to be able to log that country and add it to my stats.  But if my itinerary won't take me near a cache that I can find in the time that I have, I'd consider setting up an event so that I could log that country.  I was in the country, why not be able to get credit for being there? 

 

Because geocaching is not just about being in a location.   We have to find  a cache or attend an event to get credit for geocaching in those locations.  

 

I've never considered hosting an event while traveling but know how difficult it can be to find a physical cache in some places.   For almost all the places I've traveled I  rely on public transportation, and that can significantly limit where and when I can go.  During my first visit to Ethiopia I  in a vehicle that passed within 1000' of the only cache several times in a city of several million people but the person driving never turned down that road so I left after spending a week in the country without a find.  Fortunately, I went back two times and found a cache during each of the return visits.   There are still several countries that I've visited since I started geocaching where I did not find a cache  (Zambia, Norway, and surprisingly, Canada.  I'm not counting Senegal because I never got off the airplane).  

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4 hours ago, ecanderson said:

So as to avoid being the only 'Attended' at your own event. 

But you were the only person that attended your own event. Why should you avoid saying so?

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3 hours ago, on4bam said:

I wouldn't create an event just to get a new country, if there are so little caches to be found chances are no one shows up anyway. The primary idea is always to at least meet a fellow cacher preferably a local but another tourist is OK too B).

 


no, me neither. I could actually add Bosnia to my geomap by driving through the Neum corridor. But as I can’t actually properly visit Bosnia due to Covid (it’s not a EU country) I’m not doing that. Could have added Switzerland from Liechtenstein as well. But for me countries are only for proper visits. 

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7 hours ago, GeoElmo6000 said:

I'm just saying that if I visit a country that I've never been to as a geocacher AND I don't think I'll be able to find a cache in the time I'm there, I'd want stats credit for actually being there.

 

I wouldn't. If I get a souvenir for a state/country I'd want it to mean I actually got out in the countryside and found some caches there.

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15 hours ago, barefootjeff said:

 

I wouldn't. If I get a souvenir for a state/country I'd want it to mean I actually got out in the countryside and found some caches there.

 

That's fair.  You play your game your way within the rules, and I'll play mine.  I haven't actually attended an event cache in a foreign country without having found a physical cache in that country as well, and most likely I won't actually be in that situation, but since I consider attending a geocaching event to be a legitimate geocaching activity, I don't have an issue with it. 

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On 9/3/2020 at 1:58 AM, cerberus1 said:

Vacationer "come meet us!" events mostly.

I tried that once, for a country I was visiting. I thought I could be the only one there, but I also did hope there would be another cacher off the cruise ship, who then I (a solo cacher) could link up with to cache in other ports. (I also placed a geocaching ad on a notice board aboard the ship.) My meet and greet was rejected for publication, and I was told that meet and greets, where I might be the only attendee are not being published.

 

In Dubai I saw a meet and greet and tried to attend (the event only lasted 15 minutes). However, walking there I got bamboozled by which route to walk, and arrived there 5 minutes too late, and couldn't find anyone. I do wonder if I was just too late, or the organiser didn't stay, or even attend.

 

I did manage to join a meet and greet in London. I saw it and finding it was only 300 metres away, took a walk.

Edited by Goldenwattle

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On 9/2/2020 at 9:35 AM, MartyBartfast said:

If I went to a published event and nobody else turned up I would still log it as attended whether or not I was the organiser.

 

this. An event is an event.

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Yep, since there's no real knowing who will attend your event, you should show up. And especially if you did planning for it, and you showed up, you did attend it. The only difference at this point is whether you validate the event as "existing" if someone decides to show up before it's done. But does the mere existence of someone else's location in the world determine if an event was planned and held?

Ultimately, I would say you technically have attended the event, and thus it's consistent (and helpful) to log that you attended. And heck you could have fun with the log content as well. But there's no rule saying you have to log it attended. If you don't want to, that's fine too. 

 

This is yet another one of those circumstances that both choices are equally valid :)  But not logging it because it's "not an event" I think is far reaching. Not logging because you think it feels weird - IMO nothing wrong with that. Personal choice here

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Thanks for the fab discussion!

 

Fortunately I didn't need to think about it as two people (one team) did show up, and the event ended up overrunning by a full hour :wub:

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There was another option which I see nobody mentioned: cancel/archive the event a day before if nobody posted a 'will attend'-log.

 

I've noticed that geocachers seem to be kind of lazy with posting 'will attend'-logs (they could even log: I'm not sure if I will make it but I will try to make it happen) when there is no maximum of people stated. I feel that in the past it was more common to inform an organizer that you intend to attend, but nowadays people don't want to commit, although it isn't even a real commitment with consequences. They expect the event will take place anyway, so they show up or not, decide on the day itself. If there is no need to post a will attend, why would you? 

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I've organized 3 overseas events:  in Switzerland, when 16 others attended; in Washington state when 6 others attended and in Jordan when I was the only attendee.  I logged them all.

 

I've also organised several events close to home.  One when our daughter was the only other attendee.   I live in a small town about 50 Km from the nearest big town.  For some years I was the only cacher in the area.  I would organize events on significant days, like donerstag, and other events would be organized 50Km away where all the cachers lived.  If anyone attended my event, great.  If not - I'm still logging an attended.

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1 hour ago, irisisleuk said:

There was another option which I see nobody mentioned: cancel/archive the event a day before if nobody posted a 'will attend'-log.

...

 

Nowhere is it written that attendees should post a WA, I regularly attended events in London and would often get tourists attend who had only seen the event listing on the day of the event,  so it would be wrong to do this IMO.

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1 hour ago, MartyBartfast said:

 

Nowhere is it written that attendees should post a WA, I regularly attended events in London and would often get tourists attend who had only seen the event listing on the day of the event,  so it would be wrong to do this IMO.

I was one of those tourists who only saw the event after arriving. I logged a WA on a London event on the same day, just before attending, as I only learnt about the event after arriving in London, and found it was only 300 metres from where I was staying.

AttendedAttended

28/Apr/2015

It was fun to attend a London Event while I was here. I only found out about this event last night on my arrival in London, and with it being only about 300 metres from where I am staying, it was hard not to attend. Lovely to meet some locals and fellow travellers. I dropped off the 'Amazing Snowflake' TB and it was picked up by milloj from Sweden, who should be able to take it somewhere snowy.
Thank you goldpot for organising this event.

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28 minutes ago, Goldenwattle said:

AttendedAttended

28/Apr/2015

I was at that event, I wonder if we chatted?

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23 minutes ago, MartyBartfast said:

I was at that event, I wonder if we chatted?

I wonder :). That would be interesting to know. I was sitting at an outside table, and from memory, on the left as you arrived at the pub.

Added: Found a photograph of the event.

The Monkey Puzzle.jpg

Edited by Goldenwattle

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2 hours ago, MartyBartfast said:

 

Nowhere is it written that attendees should post a WA, I regularly attended events in London and would often get tourists attend who had only seen the event listing on the day of the event,  so it would be wrong to do this IMO.

 

So the 'will attend' is useless unless there is a maximum amount of people that can join , where it then would serve as a means to determine who is allowed to come?  

In other words: if nobody takes the effort on writing a 'will attend '' and I as an event owner would then decide to cancel the event since I don't want to go the event location and risk being on my own, then I, as an event owner, would be wrong to do this?

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4 minutes ago, irisisleuk said:

 

So the 'will attend' is useless unless there is a maximum amount of people that can join , where it then would serve as a means to determine who is allowed to come?  

In other words: if nobody takes the effort on writing a 'will attend '' and I as an event owner would then decide to cancel the event since I don't want to go the event location and risk being on my own, then I, as an event owner, would be wrong to do this?

Yes.  If you organize an event then, subject to unforseen circumstances (illness, injury etc) turn up.

Edited by Gill & Tony
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47 minutes ago, Gill & Tony said:

Yes.  If you organize an event then, subject to unforseen circumstances (illness, injury etc) turn up.

 

I've canceled two events, one because I forgot that an indoor venue was closed on a particular day; oops.  The other was a paddle event, GC74TTK, in which not one person logged a Will Attend.  With less than a week before the event, I contacted the reviewer, and we decided that archiving was best.  

 

Quote

With less than a week until the event, and no "Will Attend" logs, I reached out to the reviewer, and he agreed with me that archiving this event is the way to go. Kayaking is a great activity but it's only safe with others with you. Ironically, I was worried I'd get too many people wanting to go. If anyone hears of any paddling events, please keep me in mind.

 

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1 hour ago, Goldenwattle said:

I wonder :). That would be interesting to know. I was sitting at an outside table, and from memory, on the left as you arrived at the pub.

Added: Found a photograph of the event.

I can't see myself in that picture but  all the tables on the left and the two guys standing wearing red are cachers. I would probably have been sat in the large group at the table under the Infra red heater so maybe we did say Hi!

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We've been at 2 events where we didn't post "will attend" logs. One in Amsterdam where we suddenly saw a few people with GPS gathering at the monument where we were taking notes for the EC. Another one was in Tromso, Norway. The location was close to the bridge we had to cross getting to our accommodation but we decided to attend at the last moment to go there. It depended on the weather where we were going that day and what time we would drive back.

The Galapagos event we hosted had no "will attend" logs and yet 2 people showed up.

 

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1 hour ago, irisisleuk said:

So the 'will attend' is useless unless there is a maximum amount of people that can join , where it then would serve as a means to determine who is allowed to come?  

The events with limited capacity that I've seen have used some other system to keep track of people attending, since Will Attend is based on accounts, not people. You can't base attendance of such events on Will Attend logs alone.

 

Will Attend is good for letting your friends know that you're planning to see them at the event. And IIRC, Will Attend turns on certain reminders that might be convenient for you, the person who logged Will Attend.

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11 minutes ago, niraD said:

Will Attend is good for letting your friends know that you're planning to see them at the event. And IIRC, Will Attend turns on certain reminders that might be convenient for you, the person who logged Will Attend.

 

Once you've logged a Will Attend, you'll also get emails of any announcements the owner might make.

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