Feature request.... Virtual online events?

[+lee737]

Maybe something HQ could allow over the next few months as we all try and survive this pandemic. Electronic events? I haven't thought of any other details, but does anyone else think is a good idea?

[+niraD]

Mrs niraD and I just participated in an online game night with friends, using an online version of the game and teleconferencing with Zoom. The free version of Zoom allows a 40-minute event, which is enough for the 30-minute minimum for geocaching events.

 

It could be an interesting experiment.

[+Isonzo Karst]

Does anyone remember, "the language of location"?  I do.

 

I think it's a bad idea, but you didn't ask that question.

 

 

[+HHL]

44 minutes ago, Isonzo Karst said:

Does anyone remember, "the language of location"?  I do.

+1

[+SwineFlew]

No, that just open up abuse. Geocaching is a game of location,  not a game of the internet. 

 

Go find something to do! 

[Keystone]

Geocaching HQ is posting the following updated announcement on all active Event Caches.  I think the last paragraph provides the answer to this Feature Request.  It's clear that much thought went into this decision.

 

Quote

Geocaching HQ is posting this **updated** Announcement on all future Events and CITOs.

 

As the Coronavirus 2019 (COVID-19) situation is evolving rapidly around the world, Geocaching HQ urges all Event hosts and attendees to prioritize the safety of themselves and their attendees.

 

At this time, we advise Event hosts to consult their regional health authorities to understand the guidance regarding gatherings of people. Generally, Geocaching HQ leaves the decision to Event hosts on whether to continue hosting the Event and to attendees on whether they will participate. In some regions, community volunteer reviewers may suspend publishing new geocaches, including Events and/or may disable, retract, or archive already published Events, in accordance with guidance from health authorities.

 

For hosts who wish to cancel their Events, we suggest that they:
1. Create an Announcement log to notify users that the Event is cancelled.
2. Archive the listing.
3. If hosts wish to reschedule the Event, submit a new listing.

 

We understand it can be very disappointing to miss the connections that are made at Events. But please remember that geocaching is a location-based game, and locationless Events or virtual logging of Events are not permitted by the Geocaching guidelines. HQ appreciates that the community is so strong that players want to keep in touch virtually and we encourage doing so using other online platforms. Read the Geocaching Blog for tips about how to stay active with geocaching during these challenging times. Thank you for your understanding.

 

[+Max and 99]

2 hours ago, SwineFlew said:

No, that just open up abuse. Geocaching is a game of location,  not a game of the internet. 

 

Go find something to do! 

 

Sadly, this is already happening. It allows people to get "Finds" in states they have never been to. I was disappointed to see this happening.

[+NYPaddleCacher]

2 hours ago, SwineFlew said:

No, that just open up abuse. Geocaching is a game of location,  not a game of the internet. 

 

Go find something to do! 

 

It's not abuse unless someone tries to gain something from it, such as posting attended logs for a virtual event.  There's nothing stopping someone from hosting an unpublished virtual event just to keep in touch with their local community.  

 

I just finished my first full week of working from home.  Our IT director told everyone yesterday to take off early and optionally connect via zoom for a virtual happy hour.  We had about 20 people chatting for about an hour so and it was fun.  We met our co-workers pets, saw what they enjoyed as their favorite beverage, and had a good chat.

 

I have always though that geocaching events were supposed to be "about" geocaching, and just an excuse to get a few people together for a group hunt of caches placed "for the event".  A virtual event may actually be more in the spirit of what geocaching events were intended to be about.

Edited March 21, 2020 by NYPaddleCacher

[Johannis10]

On 3/21/2020 at 9:22 AM, niraD said:

Mrs niraD and I just participated in an online game night with friends, using an online version of the game and teleconferencing with Zoom. The free version of Zoom allows a 40-minute event, which is enough for the 30-minute minimum for geocaching events.

 

It could be an interesting experiment.

Such an experiment was realized today in Germany. But it wasn't hosted by GS. I don't know if there is a similar possibility in English.

Greetings Johannis10

[Johannis10]

30 minutes ago, HHL said:

... should not be discussed in a GS forum.

Feel free not to discuss with us. Look in the German speaking forum if you like. A reviewer and Moderator quoted the same link whithout a problem...

Greetings Johannis10

[+TerraViators]

On 3/21/2020 at 9:06 AM, SwineFlew said:

No, that just open up abuse. Geocaching is a game of location,  not a game of the internet. 

 

Go find something to do! 

Hmmm, I believe an exception was made for a locationless event.  What language is that?

[Keystone]

12 minutes ago, TerraViators said:

Hmmm, I believe an exception was made for a locationless event.  What language is that?

 

It's the language of 2004.  I am pretty familiar with event cache publication guidelines, and the only event cache designed to be moving was ClayJar's Alaska Quest 2004.  That was a one-time experiment published with special permission from Geocaching HQ.  All other event caches involve meeting at a defined set of coordinates.

[+HHL]

9 hours ago, Johannis10 said:

Feel free not to discuss with us

Nichts einfacher als das.

 

[+Max and 99]

From the Geocaching Blog: 

 

12 ways to stay connected with geocaching

[+SwineFlew]

On 3/22/2020 at 5:19 PM, TerraViators said:

Hmmm, I believe an exception was made for a locationless event.  What language is that?

Still beating on the dead horse? That's really getting old.  Go find another hobby that keep you at home.  That's what I am doing.  

[+frostengel]

On 3/21/2020 at 8:51 AM, lee737 said:

Maybe something HQ could allow over the next few months as we all try and survive this pandemic. Electronic events? I haven't thought of any other details, but does anyone else think is a good idea?

 

I quote myself (again):

 

 

I think it is a good idea to be connected with friends online during this time but I do not see the reason why we need an official geocaching event for it. Just for the plus 1?

[+CAVinoGal]

3 hours ago, frostengel said:

I think it is a good idea to be connected with friends online during this time but I do not see the reason why we need an official geocaching event for it. Just for the plus 1?

 

This ^^^

 

Many activities (school, meetings, etc) have shifted and adapted and CAN be done online, with everyone remaining in their homes and still being connected, getting things done.  Teachers conducting a class, scouts at a meeting, group discussions, this all works with online tools.

 

Some things just can't be done "virtually", and I feel geocaching is one of them.  I can still solve (some) puzzles, build containers, research ideas, but I can't physically go out and find caches and sign logs or place new caches in some places, at least for now.  We can't have an event.  Just like our scouts can't have their outings, and can't get their requirements for those signed off by doing a "virtual campout" - it just isn't the same experience and doesn't count as such!!  

 

And, as frostengel pointed out, what is the point of making a virtual event "count"?  Just for the plus 1?  We don't need to change the geocaching rules/guidelines/event types.  We can still chat with each other via Facebook, the GC Message center, phone calls, etc, and do virtual meet ups via video conferencing, but we just don't get a +1.  That will have to wait till we CAN do real events again.  Just like our scouts will have to wait to go on real outings to fulfill some requirements.  

[+IceColdUK]

29 minutes ago, CAVinoGal said:

 

This ^^^

 

Many activities (school, meetings, etc) have shifted and adapted and CAN be done online, with everyone remaining in their homes and still being connected, getting things done.  Teachers conducting a class, scouts at a meeting, group discussions, this all works with online tools.

 

Some things just can't be done "virtually", and I feel geocaching is one of them.  I can still solve (some) puzzles, build containers, research ideas, but I can't physically go out and find caches and sign logs or place new caches in some places, at least for now.  We can't have an event.  Just like our scouts can't have their outings, and can't get their requirements for those signed off by doing a "virtual campout" - it just isn't the same experience and doesn't count as such!!  

 

And, as frostengel pointed out, what is the point of making a virtual event "count"?  Just for the plus 1?  We don't need to change the geocaching rules/guidelines/event types.  We can still chat with each other via Facebook, the GC Message center, phone calls, etc, and do virtual meet ups via video conferencing, but we just don't get a +1.  That will have to wait till we CAN do real events again.  Just like our scouts will have to wait to go on real outings to fulfill some requirements.  

I completely agree with the +1 argument, but a listed event cache would be a great way to organise a virtual meet...

[+CAVinoGal]

12 minutes ago, IceColdUK said:

a listed event cache would be a great way to organise a virtual meet...

If it's going to be "virtual", those that will be "attending" are likely to also be connected via FB, email, etc and the word can go out that way.  I don't see a need to create an event listing - just my 2¢.

[+Max and 99]

Just now, CAVinoGal said:

If it's going to be "virtual", those that will be "attending" are likely to also be connected via FB, email, etc and the word can go out that way.  I don't see a need to create an event listing - just my 2¢.

And that would not be me. I'd have no clue how to participate in a virtual event.

[+GeoElmo6000]

2 minutes ago, Max and 99 said:

And that would not be me. I'd have no clue how to participate in a virtual event.

 

I don't know how much self-isolation is going on in OK right now, but during this time it's good to learn how to do community video conferencing, not necessarily for geocaching but just to see other people besides your immediate family members.  Skype, Zoom, Facetime, those are all good resources.  In my area (outside NYC) we are being hit pretty hard and so many groups are turning to video based events, like companies and churches and the like. 

[+Max and 99]

2 minutes ago, GeoElmo6000 said:

 

I don't know how much self-isolation is going on in OK right now, but during this time it's good to learn how to do community video conferencing, not necessarily for geocaching but just to see other people besides your immediate family members.  Skype, Zoom, Facetime, those are all good resources.  In my area (outside NYC) we are being hit pretty hard and so many groups are turning to video based events, like companies and churches and the like. 

Pass.

[+CAVinoGal]

On 3/28/2020 at 9:54 AM, GeoElmo6000 said:

many groups are turning to video based events, like companies and churches and the like. 

Many (not all) churches in our area are live streaming services on Sunday mornings - basically the Pastor preaching to an empty sanctuary, and maybe a musician or two providing some music.  Our scout Troop is holding video meetings at the same time we usually meet; we are video conferencing for merit badge workshops.  Many folks are working from home and using video to connect with co-workers.  Our family is using video chat on our phones or Skype to keep in touch.  

 

For those with decent internet and phone plans, this all works.  For someone like my Dad, 85 years old, no interent, no cable, a basic phone - he's pretty isolated, so we just call him!  And I hope my airline ticket to visit him in late May still works and I can make the plannned visit.

 

Back to the topic at hand, virtual gatherings of geocachers will work for some, but not all, and personally, I don't believe they should be given the same status as a regular event.  

Edited April 9, 2020 by CAVinoGal

[+hal-an-tow]

The cache setting  guidelines include this

"Website registration

A cache page that requires one or more of the following will generally not be published:

• Create an account with another website.
• Provide personal information to another website (excluding email address and username).

Which means that even if HQ thought location-less , virtual events were a good idea (and I don't think they are either) they would have to be on a platform you don't need to sign up for.

Does such a thing exist ? I believe not, as every 'free' service run by a company is there to show you adverts and/or harvest information. They don't give you such a service out of feelings of generosity !

 

[+niraD]

12 minutes ago, hal-an-tow said:

The cache setting  guidelines include this

"Website registration

A cache page that requires one or more of the following will generally not be published:

• Create an account with another website.
• Provide personal information to another website (excluding email address and username).

Which means that even if HQ thought location-less , virtual events were a good idea (and I don't think they are either) they would have to be on a platform you don't need to sign up for.

Does such a thing exist ? I believe not, as every 'free' service run by a company is there to show you adverts and/or harvest information. They don't give you such a service out of feelings of generosity !

 

Some of the systems I've used don't require participants to register. The person creating the video chat session has to be registered, but it is possible to set up the video chat so that it can be shared by copy-pasting the URL into email, and anyone with the URL can connect, even without registering with the system.

[+cerberus1]

6 hours ago, GeoElmo6000 said:

I don't know how much self-isolation is going on in OK right now, but during this time it's good to learn how to do community video conferencing, not necessarily for geocaching but just to see other people besides your immediate family members.  Skype, Zoom, Facetime, those are all good resources.  In my area (outside NYC) we are being hit pretty hard and so many groups are turning to video based events, like companies and churches and the like. 

 

Sure,  but they aren't a outdoors GPS location game/hobby that gives "points" after completion either.       

We know a couple that do that now,  without the need to claim a "smiley" afterwards.

 -  The other 2/3rds chats with the same people that years-ago were on her phone-a-friend FTF list. No smiley afterwards...

I don't claim many events I attend for the same reason.  They're friends I meet every couple weeks or so anyway.  

[+NYPaddleCacher]

On 3/28/2020 at 12:47 PM, Max and 99 said:

And that would not be me. I'd have no clue how to participate in a virtual event.

 

Outside of geocaching, a lot of people that have no idea how to participate in a virtual event are learning how to use Zoom, Facetime, etc. for virtual connections.  That's the way things are going to be done for awhile.

[+cerberus1]

On 3/28/2020 at 12:47 PM, Max and 99 said:

And that would not be me. I'd have no clue how to participate in a virtual event.

   Yeah...

The other 2/3rds does, and I'm okay with that, but it's just not the same for me. 

 - Especially when I see people looking like they're in a foreign movie.  Mouths not in sync with speech...

I expect we'll be able to interact with characters on the television soon too ("Psst...   Macgyver , I have a paperclip...").

 

She uses our lengthy phone-a-friend list to text also,  but I'd like someone to call me. 

They all know if I call, it's not something silly like "hey, whatcha doin'?" ... And never for a hint, even on their own cache.

 Might be stuck up a tree somewhere...   

[+TerraViators]

On 3/27/2020 at 11:09 PM, SwineFlew said:

Still beating on the dead horse? That's really getting old.  Go find another hobby that keep you at home.  That's what I am doing.  

Please don't tell me what to do.  I'm a grown man.

[+SwineFlew]

On 3/31/2020 at 5:33 PM, TerraViators said:

Please don't tell me what to do.  I'm a grown man.

Well... a grown man a wise man.  A wise man doesn't beat on a dead horse.  

[+TerraViators]

On 4/2/2020 at 10:08 AM, SwineFlew said:

Well... a grown man a wise man.  A wise man doesn't beat on a dead horse.  

Hahahaha

[+makgonz]

On 3/21/2020 at 12:32 PM, Max and 99 said:

 

Sadly, this is already happening. It allows people to get "Finds" in states they have never been to. I was disappointed to see this happening.

 

This is where the publisher would have to be careful.  People should only be allowed to host virtual events in their own state in their own city and surrounding cities. 

[+Max and 99]

16 minutes ago, makgonz said:

 

This is where the publisher would have to be careful.  People should only be allowed to host virtual events in their own state in their own city and surrounding cities. 

That doesn't solve the problem I mentioned:

 

On 3/21/2020 at 11:32 AM, Max and 99 said:

It allows people to get "Finds" in states they have never been to

The publisher has no control over who logs an attended for an event cache. 

[+makgonz]

23 hours ago, Max and 99 said:

That doesn't solve the problem I mentioned:

 

The publisher has no control over who logs an attended for an event cache. 

 

People who host events should only do it in their area.  The publishers can overlook this, since they have nothing else to do.  

 

As an event host, they can delete any logs people do not attend.  Just like I can log any event from any state any time.  

 

This can be controlled.

[+Max and 99]

18 minutes ago, makgonz said:

 

People who host events should only do it in their area.  The publishers can overlook this, since they have nothing else to do.  

 

As an event host, they can delete any logs people do not attend.  Just like I can log any event from any state any time.  

 

This can be controlled.

I thought we were talking about virtual events. What's the definition of attend? What's the restriction on location of attendees?

[+NYPaddleCacher]

12 hours ago, Max and 99 said:

I thought we were talking about virtual events. What's the definition of attend? What's the restriction on location of attendees?

 

I "attend" several virtual meetings a week.  Whether I'm using Zoom, WebEx, Skype, or Slack the software shows who has connected to the meeting.  That would be a reasonable definition of "attend"  (not that I'm supporting the idea of getting a +1 for attending a virtual event).

 

[+Max and 99]

31 minutes ago, NYPaddleCacher said:

 

I "attend" several virtual meetings a week.  Whether I'm using Zoom, WebEx, Skype, or Slack the software shows who has connected to the meeting.  That would be a reasonable definition of "attend"  (not that I'm supporting the idea of getting a +1 for attending a virtual event).

 

Yes, but if someone at the virtual meeting wasn't from your area you would still consider them as having attended. That's why I'm asking the definition in this scenario, since hosts can only have local events. I'm just asking how attended will be defined in the virtual geocaching event. 

[+makgonz]

5 hours ago, Max and 99 said:

Yes, but if someone at the virtual meeting wasn't from your area you would still consider them as having attended. That's why I'm asking the definition in this scenario, since hosts can only have local events. I'm just asking how attended will be defined in the virtual geocaching event. 

 

Yes.  I posted on our local geopage on fb.  And we had an attendee show up.  I'm ok with it as a host.  It be just like driving an hour just to go to an event, but without the driving.  As the host, its up to them whether to not promote it.  

 

I highly think they should allow this to happen since we cannot to it for now.

[+cerberus1]

1 hour ago, makgonz said:

I highly think they should allow this to happen since we cannot to it for now.

 

You pretty-much say the same thing in each post, and it sounds innocent enough...  Just trying to get folks together, right ?  

 

  - So just curious, why would you log your own event "attended" two weeks after archiving it,  if this plan wasn't "all about the smiley"... ?  

[Keystone]

For convenience, all official announcements from Geocaching HQ have now been consolidated on this new "Geocaching HQ Updates" webpage - including the response to the "virtual events" concept proposed in this thread.

[+31BMSG]

6 hours ago, makgonz said:

 

Yes.  I posted on our local geopage on fb.  And we had an attendee show up.  I'm ok with it as a host.  It be just like driving an hour just to go to an event, but without the driving.  As the host, its up to them whether to not promote it.  

 

I highly think they should allow this to happen since we cannot to it for now.

I agree, I can't sign the log on the ISS or make a trip to Antarctica but give me a find anyhow because I thought about making the trip but it didn't happen. /s

There is already a game that lets you travel to imaginary places to find imaginary things, perhaps you should try that. 

Edited April 11, 2020 by 31BMSG
Formatting

[+Goldenwattle]

42 minutes ago, 31BMSG said:

I agree, I can't sign the log on the ISS or make a trip to Antarctica but give me a find anyhow because I thought about making the trip but it didn't happen. /s

There is already a game that lets you travel to imaginary places to find imaginary things, perhaps you should try that. 

Agree, and this mention of Antarctica reminds me of a TB I had in my possession. It's aim was to visit Antarctica. I knew someone who was travelling there, so I arranged for them to take the TB and visit it to a cache in Antarctica, which they did. The TB visited; not me (sadly), so all I wrote was a note on the cache to log the TB's visit. I didn't visit there, so I didn't want a visit against my name and I didn't want a souvenir for somewhere I hadn't physically visited myself. It's a location game; not a virtual game.

[+31BMSG]

7 minutes ago, Goldenwattle said:

Agree, and this mention of Antarctica reminds me of a TB I had in my possession. It's aim was to visit Antarctica. I knew someone who was travelling there, so I arranged for them to take the TB and visit it to a cache in Antarctica, which they did. The TB visited; not me (sadly), so all I wrote was a note on the cache to log the TB's visit. I didn't visit there, so I didn't want a visit against my name and I didn't want a souvenir for somewhere I hadn't physically visited myself. It's a location game; not a virtual game.

Off topic, but could I message you to relay a compliment to Australia Post? No matter the international format I enter they don't seem to accept a Texas, USA phone number on their website.

[+Goldenwattle]

20 minutes ago, 31BMSG said:

Off topic, but could I message you to relay a compliment to Australia Post? No matter the international format I enter they don't seem to accept a Texas, USA phone number on their website.

Sorry about that , but all I can imagine is that the number of the phone numbers is being counted and yours varies from the Australian ones. Ten for mobile. Ten for home with the area code (area code is two numbers). A fault in the programming , which is to catch false numbers I guess. Some of the charities do that also when you are making an online donation, because they WANT your number, so they can bother you, and you can't make the donation without giving a phone number. So I give them a row of zeros, but the correct number of zeros.

I don't know how to advise you, except perhaps if there is a comments box to put your phone number there.

In Australia my area code is 02, but when I give my phone number overseas I take off the 0.

Edited April 11, 2020 by Goldenwattle

[+31BMSG]

6 minutes ago, Goldenwattle said:

Sorry about that , but all I can imagine is that the number of the phone numbers is being counted and yours varies from the Australian ones. Ten for mobile and ten for home with the area code (area code is two numbers). A fault in the programming , which is to catch false numbers I guess. Some of the charities do that also when you are making an online donation, because they WANT your number, so they can bother you, and you can't make the donation without giving a phone number. So I give them a row of zeros, but the correct number of zeros.

I don't know how to advise you, except perhaps if there is a comments box to put your phone number there.

In Australia my area code is 02, but when I give my phone number overseas I take off the 0.

 I've tried all combinations but have failed so I'll send a post , thanks! Now back on topic.

[+NYPaddleCacher]

On 4/10/2020 at 8:25 AM, Max and 99 said:

Yes, but if someone at the virtual meeting wasn't from your area you would still consider them as having attended. That's why I'm asking the definition in this scenario, since hosts can only have local events. I'm just asking how attended will be defined in the virtual geocaching event. 

 

I am not sure why someone not from the area would not be allowed to attend a virtual event.   Generally geocaching events allow those in the local community to get together to socialize but they don't prohibit someone visiting from elsewhere attending.  I had a great time at events in Zurich and was very welcomed.  I think virtual events are actually a good idea but don't think an "attended log" should be allowed.   

[+Max and 99]

29 minutes ago, NYPaddleCacher said:

 

I am not sure why someone not from the area would not be allowed to attend a virtual event.   Generally geocaching events allow those in the local community to get together to socialize but they don't prohibit someone visiting from elsewhere attending.  I had a great time at events in Zurich and was very welcomed.  I think virtual events are actually a good idea but don't think an "attended log" should be allowed.   

I agree. Everyone should be allowed to attend, as long as you don't get a Geocache find in a location you have never been to. I've seen this happen in my area with virtual geocaching events. By attending a local event, you get a Find for a state which you have never been to.

[+Crow-T-Robot]

I have little experience with the variety of different software platforms (Skype, Zoom, Slack, Facetime, Snapchat, Facebook Live, etc) that could be used for hosting a virtual event, but would any of them be able to support a mass log-in from people around the country/world?

 

As we've seen with trackable codes and puzzle solutions, things get shared on the internet pretty easily and often. If GS would allow virtual events, how long would it be before the event code was shared and hundreds, perhaps thousands, of people were to try to join the event? Most event hosts would probably expect that only the local group of cachers, the same ones that attend most of the local events, would be the ones to attend a virtual event, but it's very possible for a code to be shared and many more people than anticipated would crash the party. 

 

Maybe Skype or FB Live or Zoom are robust enough to handle the traffic? Or are there restrictions on how many people could join a live-stream?

[+The Jester]

8 minutes ago, Crow-T-Robot said:

Maybe Skype or FB Live or Zoom are robust enough to handle the traffic? Or are there restrictions on how many people could join a live-stream?

I've used Zoom for a group meeting (not the host), but my understanding is that is can handle up to 100.

 

[+CAVinoGal]

I think we have to simply accept the fact that events are off the table till this is all over.  We can socialize via online means, perhaps see one another on the trails, but NO ONE is going to get any event smilies till events are being published and allowed again.  And since NO ONE is able to log an event, we're all even stats-wise, right? (Not that stats were ever really my motivation for finding caches or attending events).

Edited April 11, 2020 by CAVinoGal