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Max and 99

The biggest jewel heist in history!

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I hope that the geocaches selected for me don't have maintenance issues or get disabled. 😐

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Will we be able to filter for clues ahead of the promotion starting or do we need to wait for July 11 before that feature is turned on?  I have some trips planned that will overlap with this promo and would love to plan things in advance to make sure I get the clues I need.  This looks like it could be a pretty fun promotion!!  

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2 hours ago, EggsTheBest said:

I don't understand why you'd want your new cache not the be a part of a promo. 

 

There's always a humbug somewhere, and no shortage around here! 

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1 hour ago, m0bean said:

Will we be able to filter for clues ahead of the promotion starting or do we need to wait for July 11 before that feature is turned on?  I have some trips planned that will overlap with this promo and would love to plan things in advance to make sure I get the clues I need.  This looks like it could be a pretty fun promotion!!   

 

I can't find the filters on the website. In the app, they show up, but while you can select them, they are also grayed out. Also, when I select them and apply the filter, I get a message to adjust my filters, so it doesn't seem to be working yet.

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If I understand the way this will work, the "clues" won't be available till July 11, so it's only confusing to have that appear in the app right now.  BUT, if everyone is trying to update the app on the 11th, that wouldn't be so great either.  So it seems they are rolling out the app with the ability to detect clues in caches but there are no clues there yet.  That's what makes sense to me.

 

The filters likely won't appear on the website until a day or so before the promotion, as that change will not require any downloads or app updates.

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Geez this thing looks complicated.

 

In any case, looks like I won't be doing any caching between now and July 11, because any caches found before July 11 are just reducing the pool of available "clues" and making the whole thing harder.

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3 hours ago, EggsTheBest said:
4 hours ago, niraD said:

I know cache owners who archived all their caches and left the game because their caches became just another checkbox for someone trying to complete some challenge cache. They wanted people to seek their caches for the adventure their caches provided, and all they got was "another box in the Fizzy/Jasmer/Whatever grid".

To me this sounds just as absurd as "I quit geocaching because everyone's logs were "TFTC" and I wanted to read two page essay of how they loved my cache".

They weren't expecting two pages of fawning adoration. They would have been happy with something, anything about the cache itself. But no, it became nothing but how their adventure-oriented cache checked a box for the finder.

 

3 hours ago, EggsTheBest said:

Everyone has their own reasons to go caching, and everyone may quit for whatever reason they want. It's just a bit disappointing that people get offended/upset by something so insignificant, like the message in the log. Don't you think?

Other than "the message in the log", what reward does a cache owner receive?

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8 minutes ago, niraD said:

They weren't expecting two pages of fawning adoration. They would have been happy with something, anything about the cache itself. But no, it became nothing but how their adventure-oriented cache checked a box for the finder.

 

Buuut, in order to get the find, you go through the same adventure as everyone else who finds it.  Regardless of what you log, or the primary reason why the cache was chosen to be found.

 

I really don't get why some COs are so fixated on making sure people have fun "my way or the highway".

 

8 minutes ago, niraD said:

Other than "the message in the log", what reward does a cache owner receive?

 

Basically none.  As a CO, you are putting something out in the geo-world for others to enjoy.  It's largely a thankless task, like making a small donation to a large charity - you know you're putting in effort to add something good to the game, but don't go expecting love letters from everyone.  Internal satisfaction that people are enjoying your cache(s) simply has to be enough.  Otherwise don't be a CO...

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30 minutes ago, funkymunkyzone said:

Buuut, in order to get the find, you go through the same adventure as everyone else who finds it. 

Maybe. Maybe not. Some checkbox-oriented people apparently get the final coordinates for adventure-oriented caches from cheat sites, allowing them to bypass the adventure.

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33 minutes ago, funkymunkyzone said:

Basically none.  As a CO, you are putting something out in the geo-world for others to enjoy.  It's largely a thankless task, like making a small donation to a large charity - you know you're putting in effort to add something good to the game, but don't go expecting love letters from everyone.  Internal satisfaction that people are enjoying your cache(s) simply has to be enough.  Otherwise don't be a CO..

 

Yes, I'm glad when anyone makes the effort to do one of my caches regardless of their motive. Of the seven I've hidden since the start of 2018, only one has passed five finders and even my more recent lower D/T ones have been languishing after those same four or five people have visited. It all depends on how they allocate clues to caches, but I hope this promotion might encourage a few to venture out and sample some caches they mightn't have otherwise done.

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Posted (edited)
12 minutes ago, niraD said:

Maybe. Maybe not. Some checkbox-oriented people apparently get the final coordinates for adventure-oriented caches from cheat sites, allowing them to bypass the adventure.

As if that doesn't happen regardless of promotion.  Cheaters will be cheaters - you ain't never gonna change that.

 

As a CO of some fairly complex caches (see GC6BAEG for example), it's obvious who the people are that tag along, or get coords from someone else, but so be it.  I put the many dozens of hours in building that cache for the benefit of those who will enjoy it.  The others can continue on their shallow empty way, enjoying nothing but putting their name in a log book and checking a box.

Edited by funkymunkyzone
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3 hours ago, funkymunkyzone said:
3 hours ago, niraD said:

Maybe. Maybe not. Some checkbox-oriented people apparently get the final coordinates for adventure-oriented caches from cheat sites, allowing them to bypass the adventure.

As if that doesn't happen regardless of promotion.

Well, that was part of my point. Caches are already being relegated to being checkboxes for challenge caches. Promotions like this are yet another meta-game that does the same thing.

 

Not all cache owners want their caches to become checkboxes in some other game.

 

It doesn't matter whether the other game is a challenge cache, or a Groundspeak promotion, or a numbers trail that promotes the three cache monte, or whatever.

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1 hour ago, niraD said:

Well, that was part of my point. Caches are already being relegated to being checkboxes for challenge caches. Promotions like this are yet another meta-game that does the same thing.

 

Not all cache owners want their caches to become checkboxes in some other game.

 

It doesn't matter whether the other game is a challenge cache, or a Groundspeak promotion, or a numbers trail that promotes the three cache monte, or whatever.

 

I don't actually think you're getting my point.  A CO simply cannot expect to dictate WHY someone should choose to find their cache.

 

I also think it's a wildly blind leap to imply that someone finding a cache "in order to check a box" (like, for example, me going on a huge Europe roadtrip to get Sungear, August 2000, and other rare months to fill the Jasmer grid) is not doing it for the adventure and all those other wonderfully subjective reasons that you think COs should expect and dictate...

 

Don't you see that it's just better to let people play and enjoy the game and enjoy the caches rather than get snotty and second guessing (assuming the worst, whatever that is) about why someone wants to come find your cache?

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26 minutes ago, funkymunkyzone said:

I don't actually think you're getting my point.  A CO simply cannot expect to dictate WHY someone should choose to find their cache.

I'm not sure it's a matter of the CO dictating anything. I think it's a matter of some COs deciding to pack it in when everyone else seems to disregard their creation, and use it for something else entirely.

 

Geocaching is about real people -- cache owners and cache seekers alike -- interacting through the game. There's an element of culture to it. So what gets acknowledged? What does our culture reward?

 

Does the geocaching culture reward COs who share cool adventures with others? Or does it reward those who help others check boxes?

 

31 minutes ago, funkymunkyzone said:

Don't you see that it's just better to let people play and enjoy the game and enjoy the caches rather than get snotty and second guessing (assuming the worst, whatever that is) about why someone wants to come find your cache?

I'm still here. I'm okay with people finding my caches for whatever reasons.

 

But there are a number of people who placed caches that created cool adventures, but who gave up when they saw those cool adventures being treated as just another +1. The culture used to reward and encourage people who placed those kinds of caches.

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Yeah we can argue back and forth about personal reasons for hiding caches, but the fact of the matter is there are people who do not like their caches to be a part of events like that, and most often for legitimate reasons, actual negative effects to their geocaching experience as cache owners. That can't just be shrugged off merely because you or I have never had an issue and effectively may not care about the concerns.  They are out there. And if not addressed then events like this can and will hurt geocachers, if the statistics hold up in this context as well.

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On a more positive note: Some digging around the web source code has revealed that there are plans to allow searching for clue-holding geocaches in the Advanced Search form and also possibly the Search Map. So the ability to determine/locate clue-caches won't be restricted to the mobile app.

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Part of me thinks this promotion is going to be fun (the part that grew up on Sherlock Holmes and Hercule Poirot), but part of me thinks this is going to be extremely confusing for a lot of people. 

 

For example, logging order is apparently going to be very important, so if you are level 2 and log a few level 3 clues along the way to finishing level 2, you'd have to log all of level 2 first in order to get credit for level 3.  This wasn't a problem with Hidden Creatures, as all caches were created equal for purposes of earning souvenirs.

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11 hours ago, funkymunkyzone said:

Don't you see that it's just better to let people play and enjoy the game and enjoy the caches rather than get snotty and second guessing (assuming the worst, whatever that is) about why someone wants to come find your cache?

One more point...

 

Why do you assume the cache owner is "getting snotty" and "assuming the worst"? It's ultimately a situation where cache owners decide the game is no longer fun, and so they're being responsible by archiving their listings and removing the containers, as specified by the guidelines. That's a good thing, right?

 

And the point for the rest of us is that if we want these types of adventure caches to be available, then we should do what we can to help the owners enjoy ownership.

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On 6/18/2019 at 12:38 PM, CAVinoGal said:

^^^This.  KInda like the "Cache Machines" and folks not wanting their caches to be on the hit list.

I think this is an excellent idea.  At least we have a heads up and time to see how this will play out.  

 

But what's the fun in that.  Let's speculate.

 

One of the things that I think may be causing some confusion is the use of terminology.   The page says that clues will be found in geocaches, which would be highly impractical.  My guess is that they're creating a table which adds a "clue" field for every geocache *listing*.   

 

A few of things that I notice.   In order to play the game (or at least be able to search for clues) one must upgrade the official app.  That assumes that one *uses* the official app for geocaching (sorry GPSr users, and those that prefer partner apps).   It's not clear if posting a found it log (attended, webcam photo taken?) through the web site will claim a clue or if that only can be 

 

I looks to me that, in order to acquire all of the souvenirs, at least 15 caches will need to be found (one for each clue type).  Once again, a souvenir promotion has been created which caters to those that have the luxury of living in a cache dense environment (with an active community placing new caches during the promotion period) while those living in caches sparse areas (including entire countries:  60 countries in the world have fewer than 15 caches in the entire country) will essentially be left out and those are places which could *use* more promotion.

 

As mentioned, there isn't an opt out option for either cache owners but it will be interesting to see if there is a way for cache finders to opt out to playing the game.  Will one have to "claim" each clue, or will one just get them simply by logging a found it on a cache, then discovering in July/August that a couple of souvenirs have been slapped on their profile simply from going out and finding a few geocaches.   I have suggested the idea of opting into these souvenir promotions by requiring users to "claim" a souvenir before it's added to ones profile.  

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10 minutes ago, NYPaddleCacher said:

I looks to me that, in order to acquire all of the souvenirs, at least 15 caches will need to be found (one for each clue type).  Once again, a souvenir promotion has been created which caters to those that have the luxury of living in a cache dense environment (with an active community placing new caches during the promotion period) while those living in caches sparse areas (including entire countries:  60 countries in the world have fewer than 15 caches in the entire country) will essentially be left out and those are places which could *use* more promotion.

This is total speculation at this point, but, at least in theory, this is the kind of promotion that could be tweaked to accommodate varying caching environments.  For example, a place with only 15 caches in the vicinity could have a different clue in each cache, whereas a place with 1500 could still have 95% with the same clue, with the other clues being more rare and requiring more planning to get to.  That would level things out to some degree.  I guess it all depends how the clues are assigned, but at least doing it this way you could, in theory, have a more even playing field between cache dense and cache sparse areas than you could by just requiring a particular cache type, or number of favorite points, or number of finds.

 

 

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45 minutes ago, niraD said:

Why do you assume the cache owner is "getting snotty" and "assuming the worst"? It's ultimately a situation where cache owners decide the game is no longer fun, and so they're being responsible by archiving their listings and removing the containers, as specified by the guidelines. That's a good thing, right?

Agreed.

We had a series (not allowed anymore) that traveled around five miles along a bike trail.  All mystery.

Someone came along with a PT, starting with placing pill bottles every .1  and on both sides of our caches, showing that empty area in-between...and easily battleshipped.

We archived the lot.  Those who did them earlier understood.   We thanked them and got nice email back.

 - But we did have a few folks send "negative opinions"  in email.

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14 minutes ago, m0bean said:

This is total speculation at this point, but, at least in theory, this is the kind of promotion that could be tweaked to accommodate varying caching environments.  For example, a place with only 15 caches in the vicinity could have a different clue in each cache, whereas a place with 1500 could still have 95% with the same clue, with the other clues being more rare and requiring more planning to get to.  That would level things out to some degree.  I guess it all depends how the clues are assigned, but at least doing it this way you could, in theory, have a more even playing field between cache dense and cache sparse areas than you could by just requiring a particular cache type, or number of favorite points, or number of finds.

 

 

 

That's an interesting possibility, and would be especially interesting if one could not use the app to discover which specific caches has which clue types.  It would mean that those living in cache dense areas would have to find more caches than those that live in cache sparse areas.   Of course, in very cache sparse areas the game is still going to be a huge challenge.  

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Couple of points...

With a lot of reviewing what we know, geocachers will be finding one clue to earn the first souvenir (the detective clue). Then we'll need to find six clues (2 for each of the 'evidence' items) to earn the second souvenir.  Then geocachers will need to find fifteen clues (3 for each of the five missing jewels) to earn the third souvenir.  The last souvenir is a 'bonus task' that we have no idea about other than having something to do with deciphering a new vault code the thieves changed it to - in order to earn the final souvenir 'Case Closed'.

 

Clue distribution hasn't been addressed at all yet, so we can speculate endlessly about that...

On July 11th, my understanding is that all caches worldwide (since it's the same for every player) will be determined as clue holders or not automatically, which means most likely something to do with cache properties or maybe GC code or internal ID#, so they don't have to run an algorithm over the millions of geocache listings worldwide - only as requested/viewed.  If there's additional algorithmic influence to the clue distribution, I'd hope it's an attempt to even out the clues for people less cache-dense areas.

 

From there I see three ways this could play out.  My take from the wording is that either:

 

A] geocachers will only see the level 1 (first souvenir) clues to find.  On completing that level (logging a find on 1 cache with the clue), the level 2 clues (evidence clues) will become available. Likewise, after completing level 2, level 3 will become available.  Not likely given the 'find clues in order' clause.

 

B] perhaps (though not likely) they may throttle the finds. There 4 souvenirs/levels, over 4 weeks in the promo period... Maybe you'll only be able to achieve up to the level available to that week (complete level 1 in a day, and you need to wait to week 2 to see the level 2 clues revealed).

 

C] most likely based on the point that we need to find clues in level order, all clues will be visible and searchable from day 1 (July 11) on the map, so we'll need to focus our search first on the detective clue (and avoid all other clue caches), then on the evidence clues (avoiding any jewel clue caches), then on the jewel clues.

 

In total we'll need to find at least 22 clue-holding geocaches (1 + 6 + 15), in addition to completing whatever the final vault task is for the last souvenir - which may well have something to do with the '81' days (9x9 DT grid?) hinted at in the TV news spots.

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48 minutes ago, thebruce0 said:

If there's additional algorithmic influence to the clue distribution, I'd hope it's an attempt to even out the clues for people less cache-dense areas.

 

I hope so too, and that it's more fine-grained than just caches per country so it accounts for the big disparity between cache-dense big cities and cache-poor hinterland. Where I live is particularly challenging as I have Sydney, Australia's biggest city with probably the country's highest cache density, just the other side of the Hawkesbury River. The river itself is only a kilometre away but by road it's 39km just to the bridge and then at least another 20km to get to the built-up areas where most of the caches are. In the recent Cache Carnival promotion, I got automated emails recommending caches that were relatively close as the crow flies but were south of the river and would have taken a couple of hours of driving to reach.

 

Since I've already found most of the caches in my immediate area on this side of the river, it'll be interesting to see what clue-containing caches I get offered and whether any of them will be reasonably achievable.

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17 hours ago, niraD said:

I'm still here. I'm okay with people finding my caches for whatever reasons.

I know, it wasn't *you*, it was aimed at those COs that get upset about specifically why some people find their caches.

 

5 hours ago, niraD said:

Why do you assume the cache owner is "getting snotty" and "assuming the worst"?

Because that is exactly what we are talking about.  A CO being upset because they believe someone came and found their cache for the WRONG reason and didn't APPRECIATE their cache the CORRECT way.  1984 anyone?

 

5 hours ago, niraD said:

It's ultimately a situation where cache owners decide the game is no longer fun, and so they're being responsible by archiving their listings and removing the containers, as specified by the guidelines. That's a good thing, right?

I totally agree.  COs who get upset about their perception of the reasons why others come and find their caches should probably move on to another hobby where they have ultimate control, sine they do not understand that everyone is different and everyone plays this game and enjoys it differently.  And obviously as I mentioned earlier, they don't understand that, cheaters aside, everyone who finds their cache goes through the same adventure, regardless of the REASON they set out on that adventure.

 

The moral of the story:  Happy caching everyone! :)

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55 minutes ago, funkymunkyzone said:

Because that is exactly what we are talking about.  A CO being upset because they believe someone came and found their cache for the WRONG reason and didn't APPRECIATE their cache the CORRECT way.  1984 anyone?

You and I remember 1984 very differently. No one is forcing seekers to find the cache the "correct" way. No one is forcing seekers to think they found a cache any differently than they actually found it.

 

In non-geocaching contexts, people tell me that they appreciate the work I do, and that they appreciate the things I have done for them. And in other situations, I do things for others, and no one says anything. It doesn't take a genius to figure out which things I'll be encouraged to do again.

 

That isn't "getting upset" or "getting snotty" or "assuming the worst". That's just being human, and investing effort in things that others recognize and appreciate more, and not investing effort in things that others don't appreciate.

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1 hour ago, niraD said:

In non-geocaching contexts, people tell me that they appreciate the work I do, and that they appreciate the things I have done for them. And in other situations, I do things for others, and no one says anything. It doesn't take a genius to figure out which things I'll be encouraged to do again.

I get that, but for me, in non-geocaching contexts, I do things that positively affect the experiences of many thousands or people per day, all anonymous to me.  I don't need them to thank me, it wouldn't matter if they did or didn't.  I just know that I've made a positive effect and that's enough.

 

It's not about encouraging COs to continue anyway, it's about a CO being petty about why someone has come and found their cache, and incidentally, probably still thanked the CO for placing it.  But the CO perceives that cacher as having found it for a reason the CO disagrees with....

 

Edited by funkymunkyzone
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Am I Robinson Crusoe? I've been reading all the posts here and looked at the vid but still don't have a clue what this promotion is about. Is it possible to explain what's going on in 50 words or less for this old timer. Clues in caches???

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Posted (edited)

 

 

 

Geocaches preselected by Groundspeak will have digital clues attached to them. Meaning, when you find certain caches and log a Find you'll receive a message/clue. Different souvenirs will require you to find a number of these clues.  38 words.

Edited by Max and 99
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16 hours ago, NYPaddleCacher said:

 

A few of things that I notice.   In order to play the game (or at least be able to search for clues) one must upgrade the official app.  That assumes that one *uses* the official app for geocaching (sorry GPSr users, and those that prefer partner apps).   It's not clear if posting a found it log (attended, webcam photo taken?) through the web site will claim a clue or if that only can be 

 

I looks to me that, in order to acquire all of the souvenirs, at least 15 caches will need to be found (one for each clue type).  Once again, a souvenir promotion has been created which caters to those that have the luxury of living in a cache dense environment (with an active community placing new caches during the promotion period) while those living in caches sparse areas (including entire countries:  60 countries in the world have fewer than 15 caches in the entire country) will essentially be left out and those are places which could *use* more promotion.

 

 

Did I miss something?  I didn't see anything that said that you *must* use an app to participate.  I see where it says only the official app (of all the apps out there) will be upgraded to allow searching for clues, but also that the search map on GC.com can be used to search for clues.

From the FAQ:

Yes! Mystery at the Museum is available on both the iOS and Android Geocaching® apps as well as Geocaching.com. Beginning on July 11 at noon UTC, visit your profile and click on Mystery at the Museum to see your progress in the Geocaching® app, or visit your Dashboard on Geocaching.com.

 

and

 

You can filter for geocaches that have the clues you need by using the search filters in the Geocaching® app or on Geocaching.com or by clicking the “Search for clues” button on the Mystery at the Museum page.

 

I understand that GPSrs won't show the clues with the cache listings (almost certainly), but that's a simple matter of printing out a list indicating which caches have which clues.  (75% of my day-long caching trips involve a printed list of caches that sits on the front seat of the car next to me.  Adding a column for "clue type" to my spreadsheet for a month shouldn't be too bad.  Or we may just decide to go with a "we get what we get" strategy and see how well we do by ignoring the clues when searching.)

 

I suppose you could search for clues on your phone on GC.COM, then use a different app to locate the cache and log it and still get the clue.  (Speculation; Don't have a smart phone, never used a geocaching app, but don't see why it wouldn't work, in principle.)

 

I definitely agree about the issue of countries (or other large geographic areas) that have low cache density or have been cached-out.  Fortunately, we live about 40 minutes away from the largely untapped Rochester, NY area, so that won't be too much of an issue for us.

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34 minutes ago, GO Geiger said:

 

Did I miss something?  I didn't see anything that said that you *must* use an app to participate.  I see where it says only the official app (of all the apps out there) will be upgraded to allow searching for clues, but also that the search map on GC.com can be used to search for clues.

From the FAQ:

Yes! Mystery at the Museum is available on both the iOS and Android Geocaching® apps as well as Geocaching.com. Beginning on July 11 at noon UTC, visit your profile and click on Mystery at the Museum to see your progress in the Geocaching® app, or visit your Dashboard on Geocaching.com.

 

and

 

You can filter for geocaches that have the clues you need by using the search filters in the Geocaching® app or on Geocaching.com or by clicking the “Search for clues” button on the Mystery at the Museum page.

 

I understand that GPSrs won't show the clues with the cache listings (almost certainly), but that's a simple matter of printing out a list indicating which caches have which clues.  (75% of my day-long caching trips involve a printed list of caches that sits on the front seat of the car next to me.  Adding a column for "clue type" to my spreadsheet for a month shouldn't be too bad.  Or we may just decide to go with a "we get what we get" strategy and see how well we do by ignoring the clues when searching.)

 

I suppose you could search for clues on your phone on GC.COM, then use a different app to locate the cache and log it and still get the clue.  (Speculation; Don't have a smart phone, never used a geocaching app, but don't see why it wouldn't work, in principle.)

 

I definitely agree about the issue of countries (or other large geographic areas) that have low cache density or have been cached-out.  Fortunately, we live about 40 minutes away from the largely untapped Rochester, NY area, so that won't be too much of an issue for us.

 

Yes, I missed where it said "or on geocaching.com".   It appears that as long as one cache use the website to search for clues,  it can be used to discover caches which have a needed clue.   I don't know how it will work when it comes logging, but I suspect  just logging a Found It as we normally do will add the clue (whether we know that a cache contains a clue or not) and that the souvenir will be added once the necessary clues are acquired.  

 

I live about 2 hours from Rochester, NY and an hour from Syracuse geocaching activity within 20 miles or so from where I live is extremely quiet.  There are quite a few caches nearby that I have not yet found, but I'm not planning on changing how I have been caching due to the promotion.  

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Posted (edited)

 

3 hours ago, colleda said:

Is it possible to explain what's going on in 50 words or less for this old timer. Clues in caches???

 

50 words? Um probably not.  I'll try to adjust the explanation I posted in a comment earlier on this page, if that wasn't succinct enough.

 

1. July 11 - Many geocaches worldwide will be selected 'randomly' (ie we don't know how or how many) to hold virtual 'clues' for this promotion, which will run until August 11.

 

2. There are 4 souvenirs, or 'levels' to progress through to earn each souvenir.

 

3. The story: "The biggest heist in history" occurred when thieves stole 15 jewels from the Teague-Ulmer museum (ie, likely reference to HQ, because fictional plot), and now investigators are opening it up to the community to solve (ie, play the promotion and finish the story by closing the case, earning the last souvenir)

 

4. July 11 - All geocachers start at level 1 (earn the first souvenir) which in-story means collecting a 'detective' clue (ie, logging a find on a geocache that virtually holds that clue).

 

4b. Geocaches that hold these virtual clues will be filterable both in the official mobile app and on the website. There is nothing tying the 'clue' to the geocache - it's 100% distinct from the geocache and exists entiely only in digital space which you 'collect' for your profile progression by logging a find on said geocache.

 

5. Level 2: After collecting 1x Detective Clue, you earn the first souvenir and begin on Level 2, searching for 'evidence' clues. Once again, you'll filter the map of geocaches you haven't found to locate geocaches that virtually hold an Evidence clue. In-story, there are 3 types of evidence, Shadow, Footprints, and Fingerprints. You need to collect 2 'clues' of each type (ie, find 6 geocaches, which make up the 2 of each type of clue)

 

6. Level 3: After collecting the 6x Evidence Clues (2 of each type), you earn the second souvenir and begin level 3, searching for 'jewel' clues (or what sounds like the jewels themselves). Once again, you'll filter the map of geocaches you haven't found to locate geocaches that virtually hold a Jewel. In-story, there are 9 types (or names) of jewels. You need to collect 3 'jewels' of each type (ie, find 15 geocaches, which make up the 3 of each type of jewel).

 

7. Level 4: Once you've collected all 15x Jewel [clues], you earn the third souvenir and begin the final level. This is the one we don't know much about. The 'story' indicates the thieves have changed the vault code from which they stole the jewels. The final task will involve something to do with determining/deciphering this new vault code. In completing this task you'll earn the 4th souvenir and it's "Case Closed".

 

That, by all they've explained so far, seems to be how the game will be played. The FAQ also includes answers to questions about other nuances and game mechanics.

 

--

Of course you don't have to participate, but if you log caches during the period your account may still get 'clues'. It'll be hard for someone not to 'accidentally' get level 1, thus it may be easy to also accidentally complete level 2 (finding enough caches to gather the 6 'evidence' clues) but since you have to find clues in order (by level) it seems it'll be harder to accidentally complete level 3 by finding geocaches casually (they won't count until you complete level 2), let alone complete level 4.

 

At this point it doesn't look like there is a mechanism for cache owners to opt out or disallow their own caches from receiving these virtual 'clues' that have absolutely nothing to do with their actual geocaches, which could cause some problems.

 

This promo is 100% an additional digital layer on top of the geocaching hobby that takes place in Groundspeak's online space (apart from the inferred standard action of finding physical geocaches in order to 'legally' log a found it online to play this game aspect and claim the clues)

 

Edited by thebruce0
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Were it so easy :) Apprently the faq wasn't enough and some are still confused. But then, there's only so many ways something can be explained.

IMO, it'll be much more clear once they show the mechanics of how the promo will work on the app/website, rather than answering text-based questions with an occasionaly screenshot.

 

But, the screenshot showing the 3x3 grid of clues I thought really clarified some things just on its own.

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19 hours ago, thebruce0 said:

C] most likely based on the point that we need to find clues in level order, all clues will be visible and searchable from day 1 (July 11) on the map, so we'll need to focus our search first on the detective clue (and avoid all other clue caches), then on the evidence clues (avoiding any jewel clue caches), then on the jewel clues.

 

 

My guess is this one.  I think anything else would require too much behind-the-scenes management.

 

Personally, I am looking forward to it.  I have a hard time motivating my kids to go out with me sometimes, but when there is a challenge they will jump on board :) 

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16 hours ago, funkymunkyzone said:

It's not about encouraging COs to continue anyway, it's about a CO being petty about why someone has come and found their cache, and incidentally, probably still thanked the CO for placing it.  But the CO perceives that cacher as having found it for a reason the CO disagrees with....

Is it really being petty though?

 

Imagine that you invest time (and money) preparing a family recipe for a potluck. That evening, at the potluck, people don't even taste your dish. Instead, someone grabs a portion, takes it outside, and uses it to scrub road grime from the alloy rims of a custom car.

 

Wouldn't you be disappointed? Is it really petty to be disappointed in such a situation?

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27 minutes ago, niraD said:

Is it really being petty though?

 

Imagine that you invest time (and money) preparing a family recipe for a potluck. That evening, at the potluck, people don't even taste your dish. Instead, someone grabs a portion, takes it outside, and uses it to scrub road grime from the alloy rims of a custom car.

 

Wouldn't you be disappointed? Is it really petty to be disappointed in such a situation?

That example doesn't make sense to me.  How is finding a cache for a reason the CO doesn't like, and finding a cache for whatever reason the CO does like at all similar to eating food or using it for someother activity? 

 

Whatever the reason for finding that particular cache, it's still finding a cache.  There are so many reasons for finding a particular cache - many times they may overlap and mix together - that for someone to say "Don't find my cache for XX reason" is petty and controlling.

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oy.

When you make a meal for a family, you could be making it merely so that people have something to eat, or you could be making it as a very expressive, creative, experiencial meal with a lot of time, effort, money, soul poured into it. If the former, then sure, it doesn't matter what people think about it, if they eat it and are no longer hungry.  But for the latter, yes absolutely the cook is making it for other people to enjoy in the manner the creator provided it to be enjoyed. A group that wolfs it down, breaks cutlery, is rude and messy, will certainly not endear the cook to ever create a meal like that again, at least for them. That's not petty.

 

Now, you can be the former cook, or you can be the latter cook - this hobby is flexible that way.

 

And, you can be people who just consume so they're not hungry, or you can be people that try to enjoy every experience the way the creator intended.

The latter is just better for everybody.

 

And one who creates for other people, the latter mentality is riskier and more likely to experience disappointment -- but it's definitely not petty.

 

It's like wine tasting. You won't be garnering any respect if you keep walking up and slurping down the drink...

 

Anyone who expresses the mentality "I just make caches for people to find, and it doesn't matter to me if they 'cheat' as long as they have fun" is the former creator. And that's..just..fine. But don't call people who desire for people enjoy their caches a certain way petty if people don't respect the cache and cause them to be discouraged putting that much effort in the future.

 

But I will agree that as a creator you do have the choice of how upset you'll be if someone doesn't experience your creation the way you intended. If it's harmed in a way that affects the experience for others (requiring your attention), I think you're justified in being angry and responding appropriately. But if it's not harmed (like someone logging a cache found that only one person in the group experienced the intended way, or they got puzzle coordinates from someone, or someone climbed the tree for them, etc), then you can choose to shrug it off.

 

Let's try to avoid blanket categorization by saying that anyone who cares about their cache is 'petty'.

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So since we are a less than a month away, should we not look for caches at all until it starts? Or look but then wait to log? I was hoping to do a lot of caches once summer starts, since the weather is gorgeous and I will have more time. 

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1 hour ago, thebruce0 said:

Let's try to avoid blanket categorization by saying that anyone who cares about their cache is 'petty'.

Thank you. I think you said it better than I did.

 

 

1 hour ago, The Jester said:

for someone to say "Don't find my cache for XX reason" is petty and controlling.

Who is saying "Don't find my cache for XX reason"?

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30 minutes ago, niraD said:

Who is saying "Don't find my cache for XX reason"?

Let's see, we've been discussing CO's who don't want finds on their caches due to this promotion (and other implied references back to CO's who have archived caches because people have found them for reasons unliked i.e.. number runs, challange cache check box, and such) so I guess those are the ones.

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8 hours ago, thebruce0 said:

 

 

50 words? Um probably not.  I'll try to adjust the explanation I posted in a comment earlier on this page, if that wasn't succinct enough.

 

1. July 11 - Many geocaches worldwide will be selected 'randomly' (ie we don't know how or how many) to hold virtual 'clues' for this promotion, which will run until August 11.

 

2. There are 4 souvenirs, or 'levels' to progress through to earn each souvenir.

 

3. The story: "The biggest heist in history" occurred when thieves stole 15 jewels from the Teague-Ulmer museum (ie, likely reference to HQ, because fictional plot), and now investigators are opening it up to the community to solve (ie, play the promotion and finish the story by closing the case, earning the last souvenir)

 

4. July 11 - All geocachers start at level 1 (earn the first souvenir) which in-story means collecting a 'detective' clue (ie, logging a find on a geocache that virtually holds that clue).

 

4b. Geocaches that hold these virtual clues will be filterable both in the official mobile app and on the website. There is nothing tying the 'clue' to the geocache - it's 100% distinct from the geocache and exists entiely only in digital space which you 'collect' for your profile progression by logging a find on said geocache.

 

5. Level 2: After collecting 1x Detective Clue, you earn the first souvenir and begin on Level 2, searching for 'evidence' clues. Once again, you'll filter the map of geocaches you haven't found to locate geocaches that virtually hold an Evidence clue. In-story, there are 3 types of evidence, Shadow, Footprints, and Fingerprints. You need to collect 2 'clues' of each type (ie, find 6 geocaches, which make up the 2 of each type of clue)

 

6. Level 3: After collecting the 6x Evidence Clues (2 of each type), you earn the second souvenir and begin level 3, searching for 'jewel' clues (or what sounds like the jewels themselves). Once again, you'll filter the map of geocaches you haven't found to locate geocaches that virtually hold a Jewel. In-story, there are 9 types (or names) of jewels. You need to collect 3 'jewels' of each type (ie, find 15 geocaches, which make up the 3 of each type of jewel).

 

7. Level 4: Once you've collected all 15x Jewel [clues], you earn the third souvenir and begin the final level. This is the one we don't know much about. The 'story' indicates the thieves have changed the vault code from which they stole the jewels. The final task will involve something to do with determining/deciphering this new vault code. In completing this task you'll earn the 4th souvenir and it's "Case Closed".

 

That, by all they've explained so far, seems to be how the game will be played. The FAQ also includes answers to questions about other nuances and game mechanics.

 

--

Of course you don't have to participate, but if you log caches during the period your account may still get 'clues'. It'll be hard for someone not to 'accidentally' get level 1, thus it may be easy to also accidentally complete level 2 (finding enough caches to gather the 6 'evidence' clues) but since you have to find clues in order (by level) it seems it'll be harder to accidentally complete level 3 by finding geocaches casually (they won't count until you complete level 2), let alone complete level 4.

 

At this point it doesn't look like there is a mechanism for cache owners to opt out or disallow their own caches from receiving these virtual 'clues' that have absolutely nothing to do with their actual geocaches, which could cause some problems.

 

This promo is 100% an additional digital layer on top of the geocaching hobby that takes place in Groundspeak's online space (apart from the inferred standard action of finding physical geocaches in order to 'legally' log a found it online to play this game aspect and claim the clues)

 

Thank you for taking the time to explain this simply. I kinda see now what is happening. Sadly, for me, it's not a promotion that's going to inspire me to rush out and find caches (and hence clues) to solve some virtual mystery. I'm a simple person and like my geocaching on then same level (It probably explains my lack of success in solving Mystery caches even after reading 'How To' books . I'm sure some, nay, many will thoroughly enjoy this promotion and good luck to them, I wish them every success.

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Just now, colleda said:

Thank you for taking the time to explain this simply. I kinda see now what is happening. Sadly, for me, it's not a promotion that's going to inspire me to rush out and find caches (and hence clues) to solve some virtual mystery. I'm a simple person and like my geocaching on then same level (It probably explains my lack of success in solving Mystery caches even after reading 'How To' books . I'm sure some, nay, many will thoroughly enjoy this promotion and good luck to them, I wish them every success.

 

Yeah and that's understandable. I don't think they expect everyone to get involved :) It's an optional additional layer providing a whole different kind of experience, and I'm guessing the active average demographic will be younger for this one. I hope they keep the analytics going.  I know I'll be working through it, but I like story-telling and progressive experiences like this.

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1 hour ago, The Jester said:
2 hours ago, niraD said:

Who is saying "Don't find my cache for XX reason"?

Let's see, we've been discussing CO's who don't want finds on their caches due to this promotion (and other implied references back to CO's who have archived caches because people have found them for reasons unliked i.e.. number runs, challange cache check box, and such) so I guess those are the ones.

I see cache owners who see that their creations are not appreciated by the intended audience, and who therefore decide to do something else with their time.

 

That is not the same thing as cache owners insisting that their caches not be found for XX reason.

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41 minutes ago, thebruce0 said:

Yeah and that's understandable. I don't think they expect everyone to get involved :) It's an optional additional layer providing a whole different kind of experience, and I'm guessing the active average demographic will be younger for this one. I hope they keep the analytics going.  I know I'll be working through it, but I like story-telling and progressive experiences like this.

 

Wondering about this one.  I'm working on my 366 day streak.  I've found a lot of the local caches.  I'll go an hour northeast to hike/geocache in the mountains.  Or southwest.   If the trail (3 miles, 500' climb) with 2 of stage 3, and one of stage 2, will I really want to spend three hours on that trail?  We'll see how it works out.  

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12 minutes ago, Harry Dolphin said:

Wondering about this one.  I'm working on my 366 day streak.  I've found a lot of the local caches. 

Our goal in 2018 was to fill in the calendar grid, and cache every day to find at least one.  Then we continued for a local 400 days challenge; so we, too, have found most of the local caches within 10-20 miles of us.  Yes, there are several "across the (toll) bridge" that we have yet to find, and we may just make a day and "get 'em all" in one day IF we decide to see if we can solve the mystery!

We also have a trip planned that falls in the middle of the promo, so we'll have new places to explore for caches there as well.  Odds are good we'll be able to do this, but it seems it may take a bit more planning and effort that earning the souvenirs by our usual caching (the need to log certain caches with clues before others become available, for example).  We typically log our finds in order, date and timestamp them.  This could mean we either log out of order, or simply find more caches with the needed clues if we've already logged ones containing needed clues earlier.

We're likely to just wing it, find caches, log them as normal, and see how close we can get in the first couple of weeks, then decide if it seems doable to finish up and meet the challenge of solving the mystery!

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1 hour ago, thebruce0 said:

 

Yeah and that's understandable. I don't think they expect everyone to get involved :) It's an optional additional layer providing a whole different kind of experience, and I'm guessing the active average demographic will be younger for this one. I hope they keep the analytics going.  I know I'll be working through it, but I like story-telling and progressive experiences like this.

 

Yes, on the face of it, it sounds like fun and I'm keen to have a go (and see what that final clue to get the combination is all about), but if it ends up costing hundreds of dollars in fuel just to get to caches with clues in them I might have second thoughts.

 

38 minutes ago, CAVinoGal said:

We also have a trip planned that falls in the middle of the promo, so we'll have new places to explore for caches there as well.

 

As luck would have it, I'll be travelling up to Queensland (the first time I've been there since I started caching) the week before the promotion starts. Oh well.

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3 hours ago, barefootjeff said:

Yes, on the face of it, it sounds like fun and I'm keen to have a go (and see what that final clue to get the combination is all about), but if it ends up costing hundreds of dollars in fuel just to get to caches with clues in them I might have second thoughts.

 

 

It does sound cool - I can feel another Sydney trip coming up!

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Yeah I'm hoping the clue distribution is algorithmically distribution for a fairly even density. ie, a person with 500 caches in their city would have a relatively similar number of clue options as someone with 50 in their county.  It could be done by proximity and bearing calculations to the nearest few clues.  And if it's determined on-request (rather than flagging millions of geocaches on July 11th), then it's still feasible.

Alas, at this point that's definitely speculation :)

 

But it's good to discuss all this, since (hopefully) HQ is reading and if there's any concern raised that's applicable to what they have planned, it can be dealt with before launch.

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