Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
Followers 8
Geocaching HQ

Release Notes (Adventure Labs) - March 26, 2019

Recommended Posts

Release Notes (Adventure Labs) - March 26, 2019

 

Earlier this year, we began soft launching the Geocaching Adventure Lab app, a new way for geocachers to find and log Lab Caches.
 
The Adventure Lab app offers many exciting advantages:

 

  • Media-rich storytelling — We are just getting started with this. Currently, the app allows creators to embed videos, imagery, and text for each location. We expect more opportunities in the future.
  • Public directory — View all publicly available Adventures. No need for a QR code or link, if it’s a public Adventure.
  • Location validation — Lab Caches can only be logged by finders within a distance determined by the creator. This is an often requested feature from creators who wish to limit cheating by people who do not actively visit the Adventure locations.
  • Linear gameplay — Adventure creators may choose for their Lab Caches to be played in a specific order, allowing for more creative storytelling.

 

Media-rich storytelling and linear gameplay are incompatible with the option to download and store location details in advance to a GPS device. As a result, today we retired the Lab Cache web player and GPX downloads. We are still exploring ways to share coordinates using methods that do not detract from the creators’ desired experience and would respect location requirements and linear storytelling.

 

To date, a select number of geocaching organizations and 250 qualified geocachers have received the chance to create Adventures. Each person who creates an Adventure must follow the Adventure Lab guidelines. These Adventures will remain active for at least six months, or potentially longer, for the community to enjoy.

 

This is still an experiment. Geocaching HQ is listening to feedback from creators and finders and will continue to update the app and builder with new technology and storytelling opportunities. Keep checking the Adventure app for new experiences in your area!

 

More information is available in the Geocaching Adventure Lab app FAQ.

 
 
Multiple Geocaching HQ Lackeys are watching this thread to answer questions whenever possible.


Any posts in this thread should relate to features in this release. Comments unrelated to the release may be removed. Please direct unrelated comments to other appropriate threads. Thanks!

  • Upvote 1
  • Helpful 2

Share this post


Link to post

I like the idea to set up a new way to experience geocaching in a combination of labs  and a classic geocache as a bonus-cache.

 

Also, location validation is a step in the right direction (even if it's impossible to prevent couchlogging for 100%).

 

A feature I'll miss for sure is the ability to download GPX-Files. All my geocaching-finds are managed with GSAK (Geocaching Swiss Army Knife). GPX-Files were really helpful to record Labcache finds, too. I respect the work, an owner invests in setting up an Adventure Lab, but after I played it, I definitely want a way to import my finds in GSAK. If the owner set the story to be played linear, the player using the Adventure Lab has no choice other than playing it in the intended order - if you're providing GPX-Files or not.

  • Upvote 1
  • Helpful 1

Share this post


Link to post

I recently attended the Texas Challenge where I found/solved the 10 Adventure Lab Caches. I enjoyed them and think that the Texas Challenge folks did a good job of trying to make them "tamper proof" using keywords that can not be guessed. My only observation is similar to that of when I went to GW 2018 and Going Caching 2018 where AR caches were introduced. A large percentage of the geocaching community is people at retirement age. BTW, I'm not in that category.  Many of these folks might have smart phones but are not super comfortable using them for things outside of texting and making calls. No offense to anyone who is tech savvy. I spent a lot of time trying to explain how to use the phone for AR caches and I spend a significant amount of time trying to help people with these new Adventure Lab caches. A lot of people still use traditional GPSs and using a phone to navigate does not come natural.  I only use a phone so love the new lab cache method.  Just some food for thought. 

  • Upvote 2

Share this post


Link to post

Don't be shy: if you're only supporting smartphones, come out and say that. People are going to wonder if they have to have a smartphone, so the answer should be in the FAQ.

  • Upvote 5
  • Helpful 1

Share this post


Link to post

Now that the labs.geocaching.com website is down I can't see what my past lab caches were. I liked to have look at it and enjoyed remembering these days when I found lab caches...

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post

As I do not Cache with a mobile phone I will not be able to take part in something like this. Doesnt matter, there are enough Caches to find out there.

  • Upvote 4
  • Helpful 1

Share this post


Link to post

Will Groundspeak allow third party applications to include the ALC functionality ?

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post

What about putting the labs into the MyFinds PQ? Many of us doing statistics stuff with 3rd party software needed to rely on the GPX files. As these aren't available any longer it might become really tough to get that done. Having them in the MyFinds PQ would make it way easier! No need for much details! A code and date of the log as well as the coords would be more than enough for most of us, I guess!

  • Upvote 4
  • Helpful 2

Share this post


Link to post

The Adventure app really needs to be able to connect to a driving app. At the Texas Challenge, it was a pain to drive to the next lab cache while looking at the map rather than listening to turn-by-turn directions.

Share this post


Link to post
28 minutes ago, Genkiba said:

The Adventure app really needs to be able to connect to a driving app. At the Texas Challenge, it was a pain to drive to the next lab cache while looking at the map rather than listening to turn-by-turn directions.

Hi, not that it will help you now but this is what I did to combat that issue. I identified the location of the next Lab Cache via the Adventure App and then opened the Google Maps App. I quickly found the same location on the Google Map App and long pressed that location with my finger. This drops a pin at that location and a menu immediately appears at the bottom of the screen with an option to navigate to that location. This only took me a minute or so excluding the two down south.  Those took a minute to find on the map. It would be nice if that was built right into the Adventure App.

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Posted (edited)
7 hours ago, Tungstène said:

Now that the labs.geocaching.com website is down I can't see what my past lab caches were. I liked to have look at it and enjoyed remembering these days when I found lab caches...


I can still see our past Lab Cache finds

 

Edited by Delta68

Share this post


Link to post
5 hours ago, p0cy said:

Will Groundspeak allow third party applications to include the ALC functionality ?

Why would they ? Use of the Groundspeak app is a revenue stream for Groundspeak.

Giving third party apps a way into the workings of the ALC would undoubtedly compromise that third point :

20 hours ago, Geocaching HQ said:

 

Location validation — Lab Caches can only be logged by finders within a distance determined by the creator. This is an often requested feature from creators who wish to limit cheating by people who do not actively visit the Adventure locations. 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Delta68 said:


I can still see our past Lab Cache finds

 

How do you achieve this, please?

Edited by Tungstène

Share this post


Link to post

Tungstene to see old ones go to labs.geocaching.com, log in and then in the upper right at your name you can view logs.

Share this post


Link to post
2 hours ago, Tungstène said:

How do you achieve this, please?

 

Two options:

  1. (As pointed out by Will_Dieterich), Go to labs.geocaching.com, log in with your Geocaching.com account, and then in the upper right select the downward facing arrow and View Logs. [this will work only on a desktop, not on mobile]
  2. From your Geocaching.com profile, go to Geocaches tab, and select Lab Cache (takes you to the same place as above, but from Geocaching.com)

 

For now, because of bugs, it seems that the best option is to go directly to the page: https://labs.geocaching.com/logs

Share this post


Link to post
8 minutes ago, Frau Potter said:

 

Two options:

  1. (As pointed out by Will_Dieterich), Go to labs.geocaching.com, log in with your Geocaching.com account, and then in the upper right select the downward facing arrow and View Logs.
  2. From your Geocaching.com profile, go to Geocaches tab, and select Lab Cache (takes you to the same place as above, but from Geocaching.com)

 

Sorry, but I don't get it.

 

Option 1 screenshot: I can't figure out how to log in (the geocaching logo on the upper left is a link to the same page). Screenshot_20190327-172138.thumb.jpg.0cac86d1ddc0b28bd10adf0c2fc5b4c6.jpg

 

Option 2 screenshots:

Screenshot_20190327-172602__01.thumb.jpg.eeff197d8120506222bdc8ddab0aa188.jpg

 

Screenshot_20190327-172659__01.thumb.jpg.8cf6f751820154daa75868a30227291d.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
14 minutes ago, Tungstène said:

Option 1 screenshot: I can't figure out how to log in (the geocaching logo on the upper left is a link to the same page). Screenshot_20190327-172138.thumb.jpg.0cac86d1ddc0b28bd10adf0c2fc5b4c6.jpg

This is apparently a bug in the mobile version of the web page. On my smartphone, I see the same as you. When I force my phone browser to show the "Desktop" version of the page, the "Log In" button or drop down menu on the upper right corner appears.

  • Helpful 2

Share this post


Link to post

My two cents:

As mentioned before; there are many "older" cachers who use a GPSr rather than a smartphone for GCing.

When traveling internationally using Data on your smartphone can also be very expensive; in my travels to Events I rely on WiFi connections at the Hotel for Data. I would log the Lab Caches from my laptop in the evening. Having the GPX also allows for loading them easily on my Car GPSr.

 

How will offline finding of Lab Caches be addressed?

 

 

 

  • Upvote 3

Share this post


Link to post
Posted (edited)

It's a fundamental change in Lab Caches. It can't be done offline and still have a (reasonably) reliable location verification lock.  Lab Caches are intended to be smartphone only. If you want to use GPS you'll need to program them manually (unless they decide to provide GPX files). But completing them (claiming completion) will require a smartphone and data connection.

 

I'd be kind of curious as to why someone would create and publish an Adventure Lab in a location without ANY data connection.

Edited by thebruce0
  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
1 hour ago, Tungstène said:

 

Sorry, but I don't get it.

 

Option 1 screenshot: I can't figure out how to log in (the geocaching logo on the upper left is a link to the same page). Screenshot_20190327-172138.thumb.jpg.0cac86d1ddc0b28bd10adf0c2fc5b4c6.jpg

 

Option 2 screenshots:

Screenshot_20190327-172602__01.thumb.jpg.eeff197d8120506222bdc8ddab0aa188.jpg

 

Screenshot_20190327-172659__01.thumb.jpg.8cf6f751820154daa75868a30227291d.jpg

 

 

It sounds like you have identified several bugs. We will be looking into those (the fact that on mobile you cannot access your finds and that the link from the Geocaching profile is not currently working).

 

For now, because of bugs, it seems that the best option is to go directly to the page: https://labs.geocaching.com/logs

 

  • Upvote 2

Share this post


Link to post

I think it would be great to see would be a world map (or local map) that comes up when you log in. This way you can see what's near you like how the old web page worked. Right now with the list of "what's close" is ok, it doesn't help with seeing what is available in other areas. For example, if I was traveling to Florida, I would want a map to come up right away so I could scroll to the area I am visiting and see what's available there. Right now with the list view, it makes it tough to figure out quickly what I could visit in different areas. 
Can you please add a "World Map" to show all the areas where the Lab Caches are? 
That would be awesome! Thank you!
My child, and a friend of mine are going to explore the Seattle Arboretum this weekend and check out the Lab Caches there. Can't wait to see how this all works out. 
 

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
17 minutes ago, Frau Potter said:

It sounds like you have identified several bugs. We will be looking into those (the fact that on mobile you cannot access your finds and that the link from the Geocaching profile is not currently working).

 

For now, because of bugs, it seems that the best option is to go directly to the page: https://labs.geocaching.com/logs

 

 

Thank you! This workaround works with my smartphone and with my desktop browser.

Share this post


Link to post

Hello

 

The Adventure Lab Creator can determined the distance of location validation. How is this build? There are ranges to choose like "5 kilometers", "10 kilometers", "50 kilometers" and so on? Maybe there is a possibility for the setting "worldwide"?

The Mega Event "Brockenfrühstück" is located at the top of a mountain. The mobile signal is very low. Many Geocachers say, because of this example, it's necessary to build in a offline log possibility. Maybe Adventure Lab Creators can pay attention to this when creating their caches and adjust accordingly?

Share this post


Link to post
1 hour ago, palk said:

Maybe Adventure Lab Creators can pay attention to this when creating their caches and adjust accordingly?

The creator/owner of an ALC can switch off the location validation. Then the answers can effectively be entered from anywhere.

Share this post


Link to post
47 minutes ago, baer2006 said:

The creator/owner of an ALC can switch off the location validation. Then the answers can effectively be entered from anywhere.

Really? That would seem to defeat the whole purpose of that function and the fundamental changes that have been made to Lab caches.

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
55 minutes ago, The A-Team said:
1 hour ago, baer2006 said:

The creator/owner of an ALC can switch off the location validation. Then the answers can effectively be entered from anywhere.

Really? That would seem to defeat the whole purpose of that function and the fundamental changes that have been made to Lab caches.

I don't see it as a problem, because it's completely up to the owner of the ALC. If they want location validation, they can use it. If not (for whatever reason), they can switch it off.

 

Anyway, logging is not the only problem, if you have bad cellphone signal. I don't know, but I suspect that there is no option to "preload" the adventure while you have good internet access, and then move on to the actual location without a connection. So even if you could in theory go back to your WiFi for logging (because the ALC owner has disabled the location check), it could well be that you unable to access the locations' text, images and questions while offline.

  • Upvote 2

Share this post


Link to post

I still don't see how Lab Caches are related to Geocaching.  Use your GPSr to find the cache.  Sign the log.  Log the cache on-line.  Nope,  Lab Caches don't work for me.  Might as well  add those strange critters?  What do these have to do with "Use your GPSr to find the cache."?

  • Upvote 1
  • Helpful 1

Share this post


Link to post
1 hour ago, Harry Dolphin said:

I still don't see how Lab Caches are related to Geocaching.  Use your GPSr to find the cache.  Sign the log.  Log the cache on-line.  Nope,  Lab Caches don't work for me.  Might as well  add those strange critters?  What do these have to do with "Use your GPSr to find the cache."?

 

My GPSr is my phone. So, in your opinion, virtuals, web cams and earth caches are not related to geocaching either?

Share this post


Link to post
37 minutes ago, Genkiba said:

 

My GPSr is my phone. So, in your opinion, virtuals, web cams and earth caches are not related to geocaching either?

 

Guess why locationless completely disappeared and virtuals and webcams haven't been published any longer... Ok, besides the 4000 virtuals from 1.5 years ago!

Share this post


Link to post
On 3/26/2019 at 12:54 PM, Geocaching HQ said:

Any posts in this thread should relate to features in this release. Comments unrelated to the release may be removed. Please direct unrelated comments to other appropriate threads. Thanks!

 

If folks would like to debate "what constitutes geocaching," feel free to do so in a separate thread. 

  • Upvote 3

Share this post


Link to post
On 3/27/2019 at 8:36 PM, baer2006 said:

The creator/owner of an ALC can switch off the location validation. Then the answers can effectively be entered from anywhere.

 

can some official Groundspeak employee confirm this please?

Share this post


Link to post
33 minutes ago, palk said:

 

can some official Groundspeak employee confirm this please?

 

Yes, it is true. The creator of the Adventure can set the radius for location validation (or "geofencing"). It can be "off" or it can be a range of up to 100 kilometers if it is turned on (but most creators are choosing much closer than that!). In our builder guide, we recommend setting the geofencing distance so that it is large enough to allow users to log from a WiFi location at their hotel etc. if they do not have data while completing the Adventure. But ultimately it is up to the creator to decide. 

Share this post


Link to post
1 hour ago, Frau Potter said:

 

Yes, it is true. The creator of the Adventure can set the radius for location validation (or "geofencing"). It can be "off" or it can be a range of up to 100 kilometers if it is turned on (but most creators are choosing much closer than that!). In our builder guide, we recommend setting the geofencing distance so that it is large enough to allow users to log from a WiFi location at their hotel etc. if they do not have data while completing the Adventure. But ultimately it is up to the creator to decide. 

 

re: the bolded portion of your statement

Will the app download the information and function properly (except for the 'code submission') while in Airplane Mode (no service available)?  This possible functionality is important to me, as an upcoming Mega Event is expected to be held in a city where some national phone carriers (Verizon) do not provide complete coverage.

 

Is there a "download this adventure for off-line use" set of instructions?

Share this post


Link to post
2 minutes ago, K13 said:

 

re: the bolded portion of your statement

Will the app download the information and function properly (except for the 'code submission') while in Airplane Mode (no service available)?  This possible functionality is important to me, as an upcoming Mega Event is expected to be held in a city where some national phone carriers (Verizon) do not provide complete coverage.

 

Is there a "download this adventure for off-line use" set of instructions?

 

There is no current offline functionality for the app. It is one of the ideas we have considered for future project ideas, but we would have to be careful that it respects the linear game-play and location validation, etc.

Share this post


Link to post

How about a Global Map that can be added to easily see where Lab Cache are located. I remember the old website for Lab Caches had a global map that showed where current lab caches were available. I think that would be a great addition! 
Please add that! 

Share this post


Link to post
1 hour ago, Frau Potter said:

 

There is no current offline functionality for the app. It is one of the ideas we have considered for future project ideas, but we would have to be careful that it respects the linear game-play and location validation, etc.

 

Thanks for the reply, although it is not what I hoped to hear.

Share this post


Link to post
3 hours ago, Frau Potter said:

 

Yes, it is true. The creator of the Adventure can set the radius for location validation (or "geofencing"). It can be "off" or it can be a range of up to 100 kilometers if it is turned on (but most creators are choosing much closer than that!). In our builder guide, we recommend setting the geofencing distance so that it is large enough to allow users to log from a WiFi location at their hotel etc. if they do not have data while completing the Adventure. But ultimately it is up to the creator to decide. 

 

Thank you. I've posted this good news in these (german speaking) blog article, available at 29.03.2019, 7am CET: 
https://gc-lausitz.de/palk/adventure-lab-caches-und-alle-meckern-grundlos/

:)

Share this post


Link to post
3 hours ago, Frau Potter said:

There is no current offline functionality for the app. It is one of the ideas we have considered for future project ideas, but we would have to be careful that it respects the linear game-play and location validation, etc.

 

3 hours ago, K13 said:

In our builder guide, we recommend setting the geofencing distance so that it is large enough to allow users to log from a WiFi location at their hotel etc. if they do not have data while completing the Adventure.

 

How does one then complete the Adventure without data, if there is no offline functionality for the app?

 

Share this post


Link to post
22 minutes ago, thebruce0 said:

 

 

How does one then complete the Adventure without data, if there is no offline functionality for the app?

 

 

This assumes they are caching with friends who are log it at the location, and the person with no data logs it later. That’s what I meant. 

  • Surprised 1

Share this post


Link to post

How do they log it later if they are no longer in proximity when they do have data?

 

Situation per your quote:

User is at an event without data, wants to complete the lab but can't run it without data.

Lab proximity set wide enough that they would be within range at their nearby hotel.

 

The only way they could complete the lab as intended would be to use someone else's device with data while on location, assuming they could then connect when back at the hotel on their own device and simply provide the logging code, since they wouldn't be able to do the lab as intended at the hotel.

 

I'm just a bit confused about how HQ intends to handle this situation, if at all.

 

- No offline functionality.

- Ability to widen the proximity or disable it, up to the CO.

So the workaround is for someone without data to use the device of someone who does in order to play through the lab and learn the code, and then hope they have access to data somewhere within the lab's set proximity in order to claim it complete on their own device later?

 

 

I'm not complaining - no offline functionality is good, and flexible proximity is good.  I just think it's fine to admit that the nature of the adventure lab experience naturally prohibits them from being able to exist at all where there is no data.  It's an unfortunate side effect of locking the experience down to a smartphone app with gameplay security features like location verification and live keyword validation.  Wherigos are offline. Adventure Labs are online, necessarily.

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Posted (edited)
5 hours ago, thebruce0 said:

 Wherigos are offline. Adventure Labs are online, necessarily. 

Maybe I'm not technically savvy enough, but if wherigos can be offline, why can't ALC be offline too (in a next iteration, not now of course) and keep the geofencing and linear play if desired (as wherigos do) ? 

Edited by p0cy

Share this post


Link to post
11 hours ago, Frau Potter said:

 

There is no current offline functionality for the app. It is one of the ideas we have considered for future project ideas, but we would have to be careful that it respects the linear game-play and location validation, etc.

 

You don't need a data plan to read GPS data, so perhaps the offline mode can save the location where the log was created so it can be uploaded later.  The couple of times I've left the country, I pre-load the local geocaches into my phone and then go into airplane mode before I cross the border.  The GPS part of the phone works just fine.

Share this post


Link to post
On 3/27/2019 at 6:03 PM, 3Teas said:

My two cents:

As mentioned before; there are many "older" cachers who use a GPSr rather than a smartphone for GCing.

When traveling internationally using Data on your smartphone can also be very expensive; in my travels to Events I rely on WiFi connections at the Hotel for Data. I would log the Lab Caches from my laptop in the evening. Having the GPX also allows for loading them easily on my Car GPSr.

 

How will offline finding of Lab Caches be addressed?

 

 

 

Not only the older ones 😉

Share this post


Link to post
5 hours ago, p0cy said:

Maybe I'm not technically savvy enough, but if wherigos can be offline, why can't ALC be offline too (in a next iteration, not now of course) and keep the geofencing and linear play if desired (as wherigos do) ? 

 

Basically, because they would then be wherigos :) (with a different coding framework)

Labs would have to be 100% self-contained - all media and functionality offloaded to the app. When that happens, hacking happens.

Secondly, wherigos are regular caches and the CO has the ability to manage logs on the cache. So if someone hacks a Wherigo, they still have to go and find the cache the to log it found.  Labs don't have that 'luxury' and the CO has no control. If a Lab were downloadable, it would be hacked easily, and playable anywhere means efforts to location lock and do any kind of secure live codeword validation would be fruitless.

 

Basically, if it's offline, it's not secure; that plus the fact that labs aren't caches would kill, relatively speaking, any value in having them as we've seen the effect that being easily cheatable has on the concept.

 

Being online-required makes it much easier for server-side security, for code checking and by extension live location verification, even though the whole mechanic is still not foolproof.  The downside is, you have to have data.

 

Remember, AR caches are just like Lab caches in this sense. With their respective apps they are smartphone only, they have location verification, and they are data-required.

Share this post


Link to post
11 hours ago, Frau Potter said:

 

This assumes they are caching with friends who are log it at the location, and the person with no data logs it later. That’s what I meant. 

 

I guess this might just miss one point: What if there hardly is ANY data reception at the labcache area? In that case no one could play and it wouldn't help to have the option to log in some distance. We had that discussion here with the Brocken Mega, as this takes place on top of a mountain with close to no data reception at all.

So this would be something were some offline capability would be really handy :)

Share this post


Link to post
Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, thebruce0 said:

 

Basically, because they would then be wherigos :) (with a different coding framework)

Labs would have to be 100% self-contained - all media and functionality offloaded to the app. When that happens, hacking happens.

Secondly, wherigos are regular caches and the CO has the ability to manage logs on the cache. So if someone hacks a Wherigo, they still have to go and find the cache the to log it found.  Labs don't have that 'luxury' and the CO has no control. If a Lab were downloadable, it would be hacked easily, and playable anywhere means efforts to location lock and do any kind of secure live codeword validation would be fruitless.

 

Basically, if it's offline, it's not secure; that plus the fact that labs aren't caches would kill, relatively speaking, any value in having them as we've seen the effect that being easily cheatable has on the concept.

 

Being online-required makes it much easier for server-side security, for code checking and by extension live location verification, even though the whole mechanic is still not foolproof.  The downside is, you have to have data.

 

Remember, AR caches are just like Lab caches in this sense. With their respective apps they are smartphone only, they have location verification, and they are data-required.

I don't agree that if a Lab were downloadable, it would be easily hackable. Maybe some experts can hack wherigos (even the ones that are not playable in a emulator) or ALC, but I guess it requires a great deal of effort and is out of reach for the largest part of geocachers (at least out of reach for me :-)). If just a few people can hack them, I think it is acceptable.

I agree that a difference is that the CO of a Wherigo can manage the logs. That is probably an improvment to ask : give control over the logs to the CO and include other proofs of "being there" than just a code , for example by uploading a picture. This can be optional as geofencing and decided by the CO.

Anyway, having read other posts, I not convinced tha ALC are not hackable for certain people even if ALC are purely online.

If wherigos and ALC are "almost not hackable", that's ok for me. 

So yes, maybe I'm just advocating for ALC being the new kind of Wherigo. I didn't hear a lot of complains about wherigos (except maybe for a lack of support and difficulties to program) and that's were a good (user friendly, secure, media rich,...) ALC builder can be an advantage.  

Edited by p0cy

Share this post


Link to post
25 minutes ago, p0cy said:

I don't agree that if a Lab were downloadable, it would be easily hackable.

 

Currently Adventure Lab geofencing feature can be bypassed without real hacking effort at all. If you know the passcode you can log the Lab cache found without any special skills. The rate may be as bad as one real finder per 500 fake finders as reported earlier on another thread about Adventure Labs. Downloadable Lab would be as easy as online.

Share this post


Link to post
7 hours ago, p0cy said:

I don't agree that if a Lab were downloadable, it would be easily hackable. Maybe some experts can hack wherigos (even the ones that are not playable in a emulator) or ALC, but I guess it requires a great deal of effort and is out of reach for the largest part of geocachers (at least out of reach for me :-)). If just a few people can hack them, I think it is acceptable.

As a programmer, I can tell you that it is as easy as one person setting a script to rip into the cartridge, and simply display all the results. You don't have to be a hacker to hack a Wherigo, you just need access to a tool that does it for you. Guaranteed, if it can be hacked, someone will, and the tool to do it will be out there.  This is another reason why much software today has gone licensed, or why copy protection moved to live verification rather than a simple software unlock. Again, none of that is fool proof, but having the online-only aspect makes it much more difficult for general hacking, and a lot easier for the service to re-adjust when hacking/cheating does occur.

 

Keep in mind, again, when someone makes an argument for Labs to be available offline, remember that AR caches aren't available offline. Does the argument work for both? If AR caches don't have to be offline, then why should Labs have to work offline?

(on that point - the best argument I've seen for offline labs are for major events/megas that themselves take place where there is no data, therefore online-only prohibits anyone from creating a temporary lab cache for the event)

Share this post


Link to post

Is there any reason why the Labs need to be fully online, though? What about allowing them to be offline for viewing and navigating, but keep the verification online-only? Then finders could still have the necessary information to find the Labs at the top of the mountain and could later log them from farther away where there's signal/Wi-Fi.

Share this post


Link to post
Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.
Sign in to follow this  
Followers 8

×
×
  • Create New...