Geocaching challenge incorrectly completed!

[+Reddevil1976]

We have noted that a challenge has been completed recently and as part of that challenge some of those who have completed have claimed finds of their own caches to do so. This has completely put us off from taking the challenge. We are just 1 of 6 cachers who aren't wonderfully happy about what has happened and were wondering what we should do as we feel this should be reported. Many thanks.

[+SSO JOAT]

What you should do...

 

Take a deep breath, hold ten, let it out. Now, go play the game the way YOU want to do it and stop fretting over the way others cheat against themselves in how they choose to play it.

 

It's just a game; yet it is a game against yourself. There are no referees to "report" your perceived violations to. There will be no penalties imposed. The other team isn't going to spend any time on the bench. If everyone would stop worrying about how that other guy did it and refocus themselves on just enjoying the aspects that they like to do, there would be a lot more smilies out there.

 

[+fizzymagic]

We have noted that a challenge has been completed recently and as part of that challenge some of those who have completed have claimed finds of their own caches to do so.

 

Email the cache owner and ask if they allow the use of one's hidden caches to qualify for the challenge. If they do then ask them (politely) to modify the cache page to make that clear. If they do not, ask them (politely) to delete the bogus logs.

 

Either way, don't let what somebody else does deter you from doing a challenge that you want to do.

[+The_Incredibles_]

I would email the cache owner to let them know. And then move on.

[+BlueDeuce]

We have noted that a challenge has been completed recently and as part of that challenge some of those who have completed have claimed finds of their own caches to do so. This has completely put us off from taking the challenge. We are just 1 of 6 cachers who aren't wonderfully happy about what has happened and were wondering what we should do as we feel this should be reported. Many thanks.

 

I call it deceit caching. Anything for a stat and then get all pissy when someone calls you on it. Don't expect gc.com to do anything about it.

[+BBWolf+3Pigs]

What you should do...

 

Take a deep breath, hold ten, let it out. Now, go play the game the way YOU want to do it and stop fretting over the way others cheat against themselves in how they choose to play it.

 

It's just a game; yet it is a game against yourself. There are no referees to "report" your perceived violations to. There will be no penalties imposed. The other team isn't going to spend any time on the bench. If everyone would stop worrying about how that other guy did it and refocus themselves on just enjoying the aspects that they like to do, there would be a lot more smilies out there.

 

 

+1.

 

The only Challenges I worry about how they are completed are my own.

[+BlueDeuce]

What you should do...

 

Take a deep breath, hold ten, let it out. Now, go play the game the way YOU want to do it and stop fretting over the way others cheat against themselves in how they choose to play it.

 

It's just a game; yet it is a game against yourself. There are no referees to "report" your perceived violations to. There will be no penalties imposed. The other team isn't going to spend any time on the bench. If everyone would stop worrying about how that other guy did it and refocus themselves on just enjoying the aspects that they like to do, there would be a lot more smilies out there.

 

 

+1.

 

The only Challenges I worry about how they are completed are my own.

 

There is no requirement to find a cache. Everything you do is completely acceptable. Every concern is for the cacheowner to deal with. Nobody should be able to tell you different.

[Clan Riffster]

What you should do...

 

Take a deep breath, hold ten, let it out. Now, go play the game the way YOU want to do it and stop fretting over the way others cheat against themselves in how they choose to play it.

Yeah, pretty much.

[Mr.Yuck]

What you should do...

 

Take a deep breath, hold ten, let it out. Now, go play the game the way YOU want to do it and stop fretting over the way others cheat against themselves in how they choose to play it.

Yeah, pretty much.

 

Correct, you can't worry too much about this stuff. Just let it go, and maybe talk about them amongst your Geo-pals? I don't know.

 

If would be nice if you could report them to Groundspeak, and Groundspeak would put them on double secret probation, but I'm sure that's never going to happen.

[4wheelin_fool]

You should pull up in front of their house on a moped, pelt their house with eggs, and peel out!

[+captnemo]

What you should do...

 

Take a deep breath, hold ten, let it out. Now, go play the game the way YOU want to do it and stop fretting over the way others cheat against themselves in how they choose to play it.

 

It's just a game; yet it is a game against yourself. There are no referees to "report" your perceived violations to. There will be no penalties imposed. The other team isn't going to spend any time on the bench. If everyone would stop worrying about how that other guy did it and refocus themselves on just enjoying the aspects that they like to do, there would be a lot more smilies out there.

 

+1. Just don't worry about how others play the game. Play it your way and enjoy.

 

As a Cache owner however, you can also play it your way. If the CO wants to premitt or delete a log that's up to the CO.

[+Reddevil1976]

AS AN UPDATE:

 

Thanks for all the input and we have noted that some of you have said we should contact the challenge cache owner however this morning the other 5 cachers who have objected to this situation have passed on more info. The challenge cache owner was part of the team which completed the challenge and the cacher who included his own caches as part of his finds has also allowed for them to be included as part of the team finds. Talk about being between a rock and a hard place.

 

We have also decided that we will not be taking on this challenge any further as this has left a bad taste in our mouths and we worry that we may be associated with what has happened.

[AZcachemeister]

So what I read here is this: someone created a challenge cache, and then proceeded to log it themselves?

 

Is that right?

[+ngrrfan]

So what I read here is this: someone created a challenge cache, and then proceeded to log it themselves?

 

Is that right?

I read it that several individual cachers got together, formed a "team", created a "team" account, created a Challenge cache under the team name, and then as individuals logged it as completed. (whew)

 

(At least that is how I read it.)

[+lamoracke]

Personally, I would find it cheesy, but if you like the challenge and would find it fun to do, do it. I have hidden caches to help with challenges, but those have been for the community, not to help myself. Folks are going to judge people left and right so just cache how you want. As someone said, its impossible to police unless its your own cache or challenge.

[+dprovan]

We have also decided that we will not be taking on this challenge any further as this has left a bad taste in our mouths and we worry that we may be associated with what has happened.

While the technical issue is a little interesting, I have no idea why it makes any difference to you. You like the challenge. Go do it. What does this other stuff have to do with that? If you think the CO is being too lenient, just don't take the offered latitude.

 

I've had things kinda like this come up a couple times, and rather than leave a bad taste, I usually find it amusing. I always look forward to making a joke about any deficiencies I see -- or pretend to see -- in previous logs claiming to meet the requirements. But the only thing important to me is how I met the challenge.

[+The A-Team]

Are these cheesy cachers the only ones to have logged the challenge? If so, you should complete it the intended way and claim a FTF!

[+NYPaddleCacher]

So what I read here is this: someone created a challenge cache, and then proceeded to log it themselves?

 

Is that right?

I read it that several individual cachers got together, formed a "team", created a "team" account, created a Challenge cache under the team name, and then as individuals logged it as completed. (whew)

 

(At least that is how I read it.)

 

The same thing was done for an early power trail. Their justification was that each of the members of the team wouldn't get credit for placing the 1200 or so caches so they all logged a "Found it" on every cache. (Sheesh)

 

 

[+bflentje]

I do think it's a very cheesy practice but what I find more disturbing is how unbelievably overly sensitive some people are. It's a stinking hobby. It's not a sport and I contend it's not even a game. Get over it.

 

Now, if you armchair log my tree climb cache, then that there is where I contradict myself.

 

[+WestSideDaddy]

I decided to log one of my challenge caches once I met the criteria. Since the point of (many) challenges isn't finding the cache but meeting the criteria. I had a few people grumble about it but in the end it I put in the effort to meet the challenge and it didn't affect anyone else's ability to complete it.

[+Semper Questio]

We have noted that a challenge has been completed recently and as part of that challenge some of those who have completed have claimed finds of their own caches to do so. This has completely put us off from taking the challenge. We are just 1 of 6 cachers who aren't wonderfully happy about what has happened and were wondering what we should do as we feel this should be reported. Many thanks.

 

I don't give a flip what other people do to complete a challenge just as I don't give a flip about their geocaching in general or what others think about my geocaching. I play this game for recreation and relaxation. No more, no less, and I know what goes into my game. That's perfectly fine for me. My suggestion for you (and the others)? Don't worry about what others do and get on your own business, follow your own moral compass, and play your own game. Why would you not accept the challenge and complete it just because of someone else's sense of what is right or wrong that really has little or nothing to do with you? Makes no sense to me.

[+dprovan]

I decided to log one of my challenge caches once I met the criteria. Since the point of (many) challenges isn't finding the cache but meeting the criteria. I had a few people grumble about it but in the end it I put in the effort to meet the challenge and it didn't affect anyone else's ability to complete it.

As the CO, I can see you proudly proclaiming in the description and/or in a note that you've finally completed your own challenge once you have. I'm always impressed when a CO invents a challenge that really is a challenge to everyone including himself, and then goes to a lot of effort to accomplish it. But it doesn't seem reasonable to me for the CO to claim that as a find, though. Do what you want, of course, but I, for one, would think less of you for logging it.

[+WestSideDaddy]

I decided to log one of my challenge caches once I met the criteria. Since the point of (many) challenges isn't finding the cache but meeting the criteria. I had a few people grumble about it but in the end it I put in the effort to meet the challenge and it didn't affect anyone else's ability to complete it.

As the CO, I can see you proudly proclaiming in the description and/or in a note that you've finally completed your own challenge once you have. I'm always impressed when a CO invents a challenge that really is a challenge to everyone including himself, and then goes to a lot of effort to accomplish it. But it doesn't seem reasonable to me for the CO to claim that as a find, though. Do what you want, of course, but I, for one, would think less of you for logging it.

 

What an odd thing to say. Why should a CO be denied claiming the find if they went to all the work of meeting the challenge?

 

I know it's a sticky nuance of the game, I would't log my own traditional or multi cache because I know where those are. But if the intent of a challenge is to accomplish some feat and not necessarily the find the micro with the log in it, then why not sign and log your own challenge?

 

And to circle back to the general sentiment, why should another cacher care if a CO logs a find of their own cache? Why should a CO logging their own challenge lower another cacher's opinion of them? And why should that CO care what another cacher think about them signing it?

 

It seems to me it's very much like stumbling on, or brute forcing a puzzle or multi final. You didn't get there the way to CO intended, but no one seems to begrudge you logging the find. If a CO creates a tough challenge and meets the challenge, why should they be snubbed for logging their own cache?

 

But to the OP and their comments. I would ask if there is a reason you are troubled by how others have qualified? Do you feel that it minimizes your successful meeting of the challenge? If the CO were to clarify that your placed cached do or don't count would that make a difference? I've seen challenges where they explicitly say you can include your hides in the list of qualifying caches so I don't think it is unusual. Is it just an issue of clarification? Or do you think using your hides makes it easier?

[Clan Riffster]

I decided to log one of my challenge caches once I met the criteria.

Do what you want, of course, but I, for one, would think less of you for logging it.

What an odd thing to say. Why should a CO be denied claiming the find if they went to all the work of meeting the challenge?

Because it's generally considered a cheesy way to pad your stats. Challenge caches exist for two purposes, not just one, as you claimed. First is the challenge itself. No one will argue that you've met the challenge. But second, is the physical cache,and the efforts required to locate it. Since you've already acknowledged that you can't "find" a cache that you hid, some would argue that logging it as a find is inappropriate. There are no rules prohibiting it, but to claim it's okay on one cache type, and not another, seems pretty lame, to me. If I owned a challenge cache, I might log it as a note, but it sure wouldn't be a find.

 

Just my $0.02

[+WestSideDaddy]

So I guess then to the OP here is the definitive answer.

 

Don't worry about how other people play the game. You should play the game the way you want to play it. If they want to log it how they logged it don't let that influence you... unless it was the CO logging their own challenge in which case you should really look down on them for not playing the way you think they should play.

[+Harry Dolphin]

And to circle back to the general sentiment, why should another cacher care if a CO logs a find of their own cache? Why should a CO logging their own challenge lower another cacher's opinion of them? And why should that CO care what another cacher think about them signing it?

 

It seems to me it's very much like stumbling on, or brute forcing a puzzle or multi final. You didn't get there the way to CO intended, but no one seems to begrudge you logging the find. If a CO creates a tough challenge and meets the challenge, why should they be snubbed for logging their own cache?

 

But to the OP and their comments. I would ask if there is a reason you are troubled by how others have qualified? Do you feel that it minimizes your successful meeting of the challenge? If the CO were to clarify that your placed cached do or don't count would that make a difference? I've seen challenges where they explicitly say you can include your hides in the list of qualifying caches so I don't think it is unusual. Is it just an issue of clarification? Or do you think using your hides makes it easier?

 

I'd put 'challenge cache' with 'event cache'. Owners can log it. I don't think any less of you for finishing your challenge and logging it. (Though I do not have any challenge or event caches.) I certainly would not log a find on my traditional, mystery, multi or webcam caches. (Though I did log a DNF once...)

Oh, I have brute forced a few mystery caches. Only once did a CO object. "You did not find the cache in the intended manner." I deleted my FTF, and put his caches on my Ignore List. (Actually. I saw him hide it. But he tore out the page I signed, and moved the final.)

 

On the other fin, I do not see why anyone would care about how another cacher cheated found a challenge cache. (Yes. I've seen COs log their challenges. Go for it!) If the challenge is worth the effort, go for it. Why let a previous log turn anyone off from it?

[+dprovan]

What an odd thing to say. Why should a CO be denied claiming the find if they went to all the work of meeting the challenge?

Clan Riffster's choice of the word "cheesy" is the basic answer. The problem is that there's no defendable difference between a tough challenge, honestly accomplished, and a challenge created specifically because it will be easy for the CO to accomplish, perhaps while at the same time being very hard for any other cacher to accomplish.

 

The real question is why would you want to claim the find? Do you really crave that one additional found cache in your statistics? After all, that's all that logging a find gets you over putting in the description, "I finally completed this myself. Yay!"

 

And why should that CO care what another cacher think about them signing it?

I'm not telling you to care, I'm just telling you what I'd think so you know in case you do care.

[+BlueDeuce]

So I guess then to the OP here is the definitive answer.

 

Don't worry about how other people play the game. You should play the game the way you want to play it. If they want to log it how they logged it don't let that influence you... unless it was the CO logging their own challenge in which case you should really look down on them for not playing the way you think they should play.

 

Funny thing is I've never had to explain why I found a cache. I think when people say "don't worry about other people, play the game your own way", that's the only excuse they can come up with for logging it.

 

Nobody has said that it's sanctioned. What they say is mind your own business.

 

bd

Edited May 30, 2013 by BlueDeuce

[+SSO JOAT]

If the CO "can't find his own cache"... then how did he put it there in the first place? He most certainly did find that spot, just before there was a bison hanging there.

[Clan Riffster]

If the CO "can't find his own cache"... then how did he put it there in the first place? He most certainly did find that spot, just before there was a bison hanging there.

I found one in my backpack once. Does that count?

[+Walts Hunting]

If the CO "can't find his own cache"... then how did he put it there in the first place? He most certainly did find that spot, just before there was a bison hanging there.

I found one in my backpack once. Does that count?

Only if you sign the log and return it to its location.

 

Personally I don't care what others do or don't do. I cache for my own enjoyment.

[+bflentje]

I decided to log one of my challenge caches once I met the criteria. Since the point of (many) challenges isn't finding the cache but meeting the criteria. I had a few people grumble about it but in the end it I put in the effort to meet the challenge and it didn't affect anyone else's ability to complete it.

Do what you want, of course, but I, for one, would think less of you for logging it.

 

This actually says more about you than it does daddio.

[+bflentje]

So I guess then to the OP here is the definitive answer.

 

Don't worry about how other people play the game. You should play the game the way you want to play it. If they want to log it how they logged it don't let that influence you... unless it was the CO logging their own challenge in which case you should really look down on them for not playing the way you think they should play.

 

I find it interesting that some of the same folks telling us to play the game we want are the same ones casting judgement about the way the game is played.

[+tozainamboku]

I decided to log one of my challenge caches once I met the criteria.

Do what you want, of course, but I, for one, would think less of you for logging it.

What an odd thing to say. Why should a CO be denied claiming the find if they went to all the work of meeting the challenge?

Because it's generally considered a cheesy way to pad your stats. Challenge caches exist for two purposes, not just one, as you claimed. First is the challenge itself. No one will argue that you've met the challenge. But second, is the physical cache,and the efforts required to locate it. Since you've already acknowledged that you can't "find" a cache that you hid, some would argue that logging it as a find is inappropriate. There are no rules prohibiting it, but to claim it's okay on one cache type, and not another, seems pretty lame, to me. If I owned a challenge cache, I might log it as a note, but it sure wouldn't be a find.

 

Just my $0.02

There's the rub. Challenge caches are a bizzare chimera. They are caches that you find and log like other caches and they are a way to recognize the cachers for some other geocaching accomplishment. Because they try to be two things they've turned the online "find" log into a stinky piece of cheese. People who find the cache but haven't done the challenge or who don't want to provide the "evidence" the cache owner demands can't log their find. People have done the challenge but who didn't find the cache can't log the find.

 

Some cache owners may decide to allow finds for completing the challenge whether or not the cache is found. They might also decide that they can log a find if they complete the challenge themselves. It is unlikely that Groundspeak is going to do anything about this.

 

The proper fix is to separate challenges from finding caches. Allow challenge caches but you can log them online if you find the cache. If you complete the challenge state this in your find or post a note. Allow the cache owner to display the names of the cachers who completed the challenge whether or not they found the cache. If the only thing that motivates people to do challenges is the ability to "pad" their stats - then create a new log type for challenge accomplished. Log a find for finding the cache, log a challenge accomplished for completing the challenge. Have both count in your stats.

Edited May 30, 2013 by tozainamboku

[+BBWolf+3Pigs]

The proper fix is to separate challenges from finding caches. Allow challenge caches but you can log them online if you find the cache. If you complete the challenge state this in your find or post a note. Allow the cache owner to display the names of the cachers who completed the challenge whether or not they found the cache. If the only thing that motivates people to do challenges is the ability to "pad" their stats - then create a new log type for challenge accomplished. Log a find for finding the cache, log a challenge accomplished for completing the challenge. Have both count in your stats.

 

Or, how about this.

 

Eliminate Challange Caches, and create a series of system wide "Challenge Badges" for the more common Challenges (Cache-A-Day for a week/month/year, DeLorme per State, Fizzy, Calendar, Alphabet, etc). This would eliminate the finder having to prove things to the CO (the system would do it) and eliminate the more goofy Challenges (Find 3 regulars on a Monday, 2 Mysteries on a Friday, and a D4 on Sunday).

[+CanadianRockies]

Challenge caches are a bizzare chimera. They are caches that you find and log like other caches and they are a way to recognize the cachers for some other geocaching accomplishment. Because they try to be two things they've turned the online "find" log into a stinky piece of cheese.

I think it's more like they've turned vanilla ice cream into strawberry. Lots of different kinds of caches recognize cachers for some other geocaching accomplishment. EarthCaches recognize them for learning Earth science. Some virtuals recognize them for learning history. CITOs recognize them for collecting trash. Webcam caches recognize them for getting their pictures taken. Kind of like chocolate, raspberry, butter pecan, and cookie dough ice cream flavors. Personally, I like a world that has lots of ice cream varieties.

 

If the only thing that motivates people to do challenges is the ability to "pad" their stats - then create a new log type for challenge accomplished.

Do you realize how absurd this sounds? In the time it takes to accomplish many challenges, you easily could find a couple thousand caches in Nevada. For all challenge caches, you must do something in addition to finding a physical cache. So, you'd have to be pretty stupid to do challenges to pad your stats.

[+SSO JOAT]

Do ya'll not remember last year? They DID separate out the challenge thing. Apparently most of the folks hated it (I thought it was fine, though I didn't use it very much). How many months did that last before GS scraped the program? Challenges are never going to succeed on their own, if last year's challenge program couldn't do it.

[+NYPaddleCacher]

The proper fix is to separate challenges from finding caches. Allow challenge caches but you can log them online if you find the cache. If you complete the challenge state this in your find or post a note. Allow the cache owner to display the names of the cachers who completed the challenge whether or not they found the cache. If the only thing that motivates people to do challenges is the ability to "pad" their stats - then create a new log type for challenge accomplished. Log a find for finding the cache, log a challenge accomplished for completing the challenge. Have both count in your stats.

 

Or, how about this.

 

Eliminate Challange Caches, and create a series of system wide "Challenge Badges" for the more common Challenges (Cache-A-Day for a week/month/year, DeLorme per State, Fizzy, Calendar, Alphabet, etc). This would eliminate the finder having to prove things to the CO (the system would do it) and eliminate the more goofy Challenges (Find 3 regulars on a Monday, 2 Mysteries on a Friday, and a D4 on Sunday).

 

+1...I even created a thread about it in the Feature Suggestions forum.

 

My suggestion was slightly different.

 

Keep the common challenges that are associated with challenge caches we have today (i.e. fizzy challenge, delorme challenges, jasmer...) but instead of having an additional challenge cache that must be found to get "credit" for completing the challenge, award challenge badges (or achievement badges) that will automatically show up in ones profile when a challenge has been completed. One of the issues with the tight couple of the challenge and the challenge cache is the great disparity in the popularity of challenge caches depending on where one lives. In some areas they've become so common that power trails, consisting entirely of challenges have been created. In other ares, even well populated places, they're almost non-existent. So for example, if someone found a cache beginning with every letter in the english alphabet, there are probably several challenge caches one could find and post a found it log. However, none of them many be anywhere close to where one completed the criteria. For example, in another thread a "Find every cache in a country" challenge was shown. I actually did that several years ago (Vatican City State) but in order to get credit for completing it I'd have to go to Denmark.

 

 

[+The A-Team]

Do ya'll not remember last year? They DID separate out the challenge thing.

I do, but I think your memory is a bit fuzzy. What you're referring to were called Geocaching Challenges, and were a completely different concept from challenge caches. They were the attempted* replacement for Virtual caches. You were given a task that would be required to claim completion of a Challenge, like taking a picture of yourself with a garden gnome. Other than during a brief period at the beginning, the number of Challenges you had completed was displayed as a number separate from your number of finds on caches. It was effectively a completely separate side-game that was very loosely related to caching. At no time have challenge caches (ie. Fizzy, Delorme, alphabet, etc.) been a separate cache type.

 

*By "attempted", I mean a spectacular failure and an extreme misinterpretation of what people wanted.

[+SSO JOAT]

You completely missed the point. The Challenges were a means of steering existing challenges off of traditional caches and into a new and expanded realm that was separate. That's exactly what keeps being suggested for challenges. Get rid of the physical cache and make it a separate stat based on completing some kind of challenge. The caching community didn't allow that to blossom into the system that would have replaced a challenge with a traditional cache.

 

And for the record, we most certainly did make some of the new challenges based on what was historically a "challenge cache" with a traditional container. The new challenges listed the requirements to log it by finding so many of whatever other type of cache. When they dropped the challenge system, those challenges (most of which went unclaimed to that point) went away as well.

 

It had the potential to be a great replacement for traditional challenge caches. It just wasn't used that way. And the attempt to make it a new form of virtual cache essentially swamped the system from the beginning, making the value of each challenge completion less significant. Like mixing a film can PT with a mountain top cache. The 1 noteworthy cache stat gets lost amongst the 500 PNG micros.

[+briansnat]

I decided to log one of my challenge caches once I met the criteria. Since the point of (many) challenges isn't finding the cache but meeting the criteria. I had a few people grumble about it but in the end it I put in the effort to meet the challenge and it didn't affect anyone else's ability to complete it.

As the CO, I can see you proudly proclaiming in the description and/or in a note that you've finally completed your own challenge once you have. I'm always impressed when a CO invents a challenge that really is a challenge to everyone including himself, and then goes to a lot of effort to accomplish it. But it doesn't seem reasonable to me for the CO to claim that as a find, though. Do what you want, of course, but I, for one, would think less of you for logging it.

 

As I see it there are two parts to the challenge, completing the requirements, then finding and logging the actual cache. You can complete the challenge, but if you can't come up with the actual cache, no smiley. As the owner you have a distinct advantage over everybody else because you already know where that container is.

[+Mudfrog]

So I guess then to the OP here is the definitive answer.

 

Don't worry about how other people play the game. You should play the game the way you want to play it. If they want to log it how they logged it don't let that influence you... unless it was the CO logging their own challenge in which case you should really look down on them for not playing the way you think they should play.

 

I find it interesting that some of the same folks telling us to play the game we want are the same ones casting judgement about the way the game is played.

 

Two different animals here. A person can play the game the way they want, as long as it doesn't affect others. Finding their own cache is one of those ways a person can play which doesn't affect anyone else. But, we still have opinions when someone chooses to do these kinds of things. Sure, we can keep them to ourselves but we can opt to post them here on the forums if they follow topic.

 

My opinion, It would not matter how many hoops i had to jump through to qualify, i would not log my own challenge cache. Same goes with the situation stated in the OP. Both seem silly to me. On the other hand, they don't affect me so i wouldn't lose any sleep over either.

[+The A-Team]

You completely missed the point. The Challenges were a means of steering existing challenges off of traditional caches and into a new and expanded realm that was separate.

They were never advertised as being such a thing. Right from the very start, they were advertised as being the replacement for virtuals. If you heard somewhere that they were a way to split off challenge caches, it was a misinterpretation of what Groundspeak's intention was.

 

And for the record, we most certainly did make some of the new challenges based on what was historically a "challenge cache" with a traditional container. The new challenges listed the requirements to log it by finding so many of whatever other type of cache.

I never saw or heard of a Geocaching Challenge that in any way connected to finding geocaches, and they weren't intended to be used that way. Right from Jeremy's blog post I linked to above:

Spring forward to 2010 when we added the feedback section of our web site. It became quickly apparent that the community wanted virtuals back as much as we did. However, knowing the history of virtuals, we couldn’t just flip a switch and have the same process again. So we sat in a room and tried to distill the idea of virtuals into one sentence. The result was “go somewhere and do something.” This evolved into Geocaching Challenges.

 

Find a location of interest and challenge someone to take a photo or complete some kind of task unique to that location. Make it fun! Take a picture of yourself holding up the Tower of Pisa. Pull statue Lenin’s finger in Fremont (Seattle). We’re looking for the community to define the best challenges in the world.

[Clan Riffster]

A person can play the game the way they want, as long as it doesn't affect others. Finding their own cache is one of those ways a person can play which doesn't affect anyone else. But, we still have opinions when someone chooses to do these kinds of things. Sure, we can keep them to ourselves but we can opt to post them here on the forums if they follow topic.

Exactly. Having an opinion about something, and expressing it, is by no means looking down our noses at those who disagree with that opinion. If I go on the Food Network forum, and say "I dislike cabbage", that in no way disparages those good folks who do like cabbage. It is merely my opinion, which has all the validity of any other opinion.

 

If I tell you, "Eat what you want. I dislike cabbage", the second sentence does not equate to me telling you not to eat cabbage. I could even use stronger language, such as "Cabbage sucks! Eat what you want", and I'm still not dictating what you eat. I'm simply telling you what I won't eat.

[+Don_J]

A person can play the game the way they want, as long as it doesn't affect others. Finding their own cache is one of those ways a person can play which doesn't affect anyone else. But, we still have opinions when someone chooses to do these kinds of things. Sure, we can keep them to ourselves but we can opt to post them here on the forums if they follow topic.

Exactly. Having an opinion about something, and expressing it, is by no means looking down our noses at those who disagree with that opinion. If I go on the Food Network forum, and say "I dislike cabbage", that in no way disparages those good folks who do like cabbage. It is merely my opinion, which has all the validity of any other opinion.

 

If I tell you, "Eat what you want. I dislike cabbage", the second sentence does not equate to me telling you not to eat cabbage. I could even use stronger language, such as "Cabbage sucks! Eat what you want", and I'm still not dictating what you eat. I'm simply telling you what I won't eat.

 

Yes, but when one says, "I would think less of you for disliking cabbage", it becomes an entirely different animal.

[Clan Riffster]

A person can play the game the way they want, as long as it doesn't affect others. Finding their own cache is one of those ways a person can play which doesn't affect anyone else. But, we still have opinions when someone chooses to do these kinds of things. Sure, we can keep them to ourselves but we can opt to post them here on the forums if they follow topic.

Exactly. Having an opinion about something, and expressing it, is by no means looking down our noses at those who disagree with that opinion. If I go on the Food Network forum, and say "I dislike cabbage", that in no way disparages those good folks who do like cabbage. It is merely my opinion, which has all the validity of any other opinion.

 

If I tell you, "Eat what you want. I dislike cabbage", the second sentence does not equate to me telling you not to eat cabbage. I could even use stronger language, such as "Cabbage sucks! Eat what you want", and I'm still not dictating what you eat. I'm simply telling you what I won't eat.

 

Yes, but when one says, "I would think less of you for disliking cabbage", it becomes an entirely different animal.

Maybe? Granted, it's a bit harsher than simply saying "I hate cabbage", as it includes a social aspect, and a veiled suggestion that you should also hate cabbage. But in the end, it's still just an opinion, no more or less valid than any other.

[+ChileHead]

Unless you are the CO of the challenge, it's hardly your concern how people complete it.

[+Don_J]

Unless you are the CO of the challenge, it's hardly your concern how people complete it.

 

As I was reading the OP I'm thinking that there is so much wrong here, and none of it has anything to do with how anyone qualified for the challenge.

 

First, why is this so important? If this happened around here, I'd be laughing at how cheesy some people can get. The last thing I would be is outraged. Second, this would be added motivation for me to go and do the challenge honestly and properly. The last thing I would consider would be a boycott.

Edited June 3, 2013 by Don_J

[Clan Riffster]

The last thing I would consider would be a boycott.

That's the bit that really has me scratching my head.

I'm not gonna punish myself because I disagree with how someone else plays a game.

[+OZ2CPU]

some time ago high up in a tree, I find a really cool cache,

and while up there I read a bit in the logbook, same pen, same handwriting,

3 names, one is small and fit, the other two.. eh..

lets just say there is no way they will be able to get them self even near that cache..

Do I care ?? NOPE..

Was the cache still fun for me ? YES

 

The only rule I ever found in this game:

is your name must be in the logbook before you can log it as found online.

how it got there, is unspecified..

I just hope most people find it more fun to do this, them self ...

And have a good day, just the same.

 

If you feel a cache is not worth finding, becourse others before you cheated ??

then stop find caches at all, since ALL caches will be logged before or later by a cheater in your eyes,

not all people solve puzzle them self, they call a friend.

not all people can find all caches, they ask a friend.

not all people can climb a tree, they ask a friend to climb and sign.

 

Did I ever sign a log book of a puzzle I did not solve ?? YES

Edited June 3, 2013 by OZ2CPU