First to Find, But how many "Firsts"

[+uxorious]

maybe we should set a "Community limit of five" and after that let some others (Kids) get there first :-)

 

How can we set a limit of any kind on a game that has no offical standing. The only community that could set any limits of any kind on FTF's would be those that go for them. If you read the forums for any length of time you can see that ain't gonna happen.

 

I'm not into the FTF game myself, the only ones I have gotten are on caches that were out in the mountains and were out for a week or more. However, if I were to take kids, (or Grandkids in my case.) out for a FTF run, I would not want anyone to back off and make it easier. What would that be teaching them?

[+kunarion]

First to find is not all it's cracked up to be. Sometimes the coordinates are off, even as much as a mile because of one small fat-fingered typo.

I've enjoyed some of those, arriving to puzzle it out after all the FTF hounds have given up. I know it's unlikley to find, so the challenge is deciding what the intended GZ is, where nobody bothered to look -- and I can rule out the 30 foot diameter circle around the posted coords which have already been scoured. I just need to get there before the coords get fixed.

 

But it's also great to wait til the first finders post the better coords.

[+The A-Team]

Hey, that means they're from my area too (if they are from Victoria)! For all I know, I may be one of the aforementioned "FTF hogs".

I wouldn't be surprised if this whole thread was about a guy with a plan.

Hey, I think I know that guy! Sometimes the plan comes together or something...

 

In my defence, there are others around here with more FTFs than me, and one couple has FAR more.

[Pup Patrol]

If you really want a FTF, you can sort a search from your home coordinates by date last found and find caches that have never been found. There are usually several within driving distance. My experience is that FTF hounds tend to only go for the easy finds; a difficult puzzle or an extended hike will be enough to keep them away. Besides which, your kids will find being FTF on something challenging much more gratifying than being the first to lift a lamp-post skirt.

 

Examples near your location:

 

Unfound

 

In fact, some of those look pretty easy.

 

Unless there's a wee problem with the coordinates.

 

Update Coordinates

07/01/2012

N 48° 31.710 W 124° 05.983

 

Coordinates changed from:

N 48° 41.710 W 124° 05.983

 

Coordinates changed to:

N 48° 31.710 W 124° 05.983

 

Distance from original: 60802.2 feet or 18532.5 meters.

 

Updating coordinates.

 

 

B.

[+DsrtMtnRox]

Who cares. FTF is a silly high school game in the adult world.

Boy do I feel stupid telling you that I got two FTF's last friday....haha

[+Don_J]

To get this on topic... I used to be in the FTF game pretty heavy and once I realize how childish its to "hog" all the FTF without letting others get a chance, I really slow down doing the FTF game. I have to say that hogging all the FTF does make other people view you as selfish or greedy. It does show the true color in some cachers when they are hogging all the FTF and the way they write in their online logs.

 

I quit putting out more caches because I got tried of the same FTF hog(s) finding my caches and bragging about it. It does get old after awhile.

 

I know I cant change this whole thing, but I am doing my part to think of other people beside myself. When a kid get a FTF, its the best thing in the world for them and I want them to have those moments when they are still young.

 

I remember once when 12 new caches were published on an up and back trail. I got there first but on the way up, I found every other cache. I felt kind of guilty hogging all the FTFs and I figured if someone was a half hour behind me, they could have half of them. Nobody else showed up so I found the rest on the way back. It may be a silly game, but when the opportunity presents itself, I'll play it.

[+OZ2CPU]

man I tried it :-) and I lost so many times..

but just dont take it hard, smile and be happy (almost) just the same..

but again if it did not matter at all, just stay home :-)

 

now I take my chance where I think I got a fair chance,

and still I loose, sometimes by minutes other times by sec..

one FTF battle we where two on the site driving down the same road !

running towards the hiding spot, I was lucky to stick my hand in from correct side

while the STF just picked the other side :-)

just one experiance more we can laugh of today.

 

I do understand if you want to play the FTF game with your kids too,

but they must prepare to fight very hard in some areas,

and prepare to loose alot too.

but hey the harder it is, the more joy you get when you win :-)

[+apfelmaus]

If they're not getting there first, they eventually will if they keep at it.

 

This can be a good lesson for kids, that if you want something, be prepared to work hard and be ready for disappointment along the way.

 

#1 They've already got a smartphone, which is a huge advantage, more than I have and I've gotten at least 10 FTFs.

 

#2 They need to practise getting out of the door REALLY fast. 30 seconds would be good.

 

#3 They should only go for caches that are close to their homes.

 

#4 They can practise their search strategy and will learn about keeping calm under pressure.

 

#5 They can make it fun. Every FTF they go for, whether they get or not, they can go for a treat after. And enjoy meeting the other cachers and their children. This, for me, is the best part of going for a FTF, is who you meet.

 

The other FTFs can only drive so fast. They don't have teleporters, trust me. If your friends keep at it, they will get their FTF.

Fully agree!

Some additions:

#1a Make sure your smartphone has a geocaching app and you know how to use it. You do not have the time to download the cache details into your standard GPS-device

 

#2a Be prepared to leave instantly. Do not think about if you should try the FTF or not. Get into the car first.

#2b Be prepared to leave at any time. 11:30 pm? Your chance increases.

 

#5a Be prepared to be disappointed most of the time. If you are lucky, you get a STF or TTF. It is more difficult to find a cache that has not been found yet. In some cases, the cache might not be at the posted coordinates at all

 

#5b Is it FUN to meet others at GZ. In our area we usually agree on Team FTFs. If you are joining the search at GZ and the cache had not been found yet, everyone claims a Team-FTF. I actually prefer a Team-FTF vs. an FTF by my one as it is much more fun.

 

Question: It is really the kids that want the FTF??

Edited August 28, 2012 by apfelmaus

[+NYPaddleCacher]

 

Suggest to her that she should get a Gmail address and set up her phone for "push" email. Then she'll get the emails in seconds.

 

Yes, Gmail is scary quick.

 

Yes. I've got my iPhone hooked up to my gmail account (and my work account which uses Microsoft Exchange). Awhile back I submitted a new cache for review. I clicked on the Submit button and my phone beeped, indicating that it had received the email indicating that it was sent the the reviewer queue *before* the next page rendered in my browser.

[+Singletree Expedition]

...

We all must remember this is a Hobby not a "profession" I have seen the hobby of Amateur radio (Ham) go that route, where the few "Big Guns" the guys with BIG bank rolls usually retired win the contests almost every year with out fail and NOT due to skill and effort but to use an analogy we can all relate to is, think of competing against Microsoft (Nuf Said)

 

In the end, how many first to finds does one need? maybe we should set a "Community limit of five" and after that let some others (Kids) get there first :-)

 

I'm not sure I can relate to your analagy.

 

Microsoft was built (insert POTUS joke here) by childhood friends with a good idea and the determination to follow through. It was competition that led to Microsoft's success. And that same competition produced the world's most valuable company (not Microsoft). Are you saying that Microsoft should not build new products?

 

Should the Ham radio guys back down and let someone else win? If so, no one improves. Competition has value, even for the guys that are trailing the leader.

 

When a FTF is up for grabs, please don't let me "win". My children appreciate that it's a challenge.

[+bflentje]

Not only do you win the eye-roll of the week award but you've won it for the month too. Sorry. If you need "help" attaining a First to Find then you shouldn't be playing the side game.

 

You also get the beating a dead horse award

 

For being post #2? I would have thought at least being on page #2 would have warranted such an award. Sweet.

[+bflentje]

Not only do you win the eye-roll of the week award but you've won it for the month too. Sorry. If you need "help" attaining a First to Find then you shouldn't be playing the side game.

 

Just as I thought, Children that never learned how to "play" We are rolling our eyes!!!

 

The issue is not that you have not yet learned how to play the game. But that you're suggesting everyone else hold back so that you can get into the game. To me that just isn't right. If you're handed the prize what good is the competition?

 

WTF?? When did "I" say "I" wanted a first to find and I have many myself but I guess you cant read. Trolls...

 

Here, I quoted from your first post..

 

In the end, how many first to finds does one need? maybe we should set a "Community limit of five" and after that let some others (Kids) get there first :-)

[+bflentje]

I remember once when 12 new caches were published on an up and back trail. I got there first but on the way up, I found every other cache. I felt kind of guilty hogging all the FTFs and I figured if someone was a half hour behind me, they could have half of them. Nobody else showed up so I found the rest on the way back. It may be a silly game, but when the opportunity presents itself, I'll play it.

 

I am not trying to be sarcastic here but if you have guilt, your time would be better spent volunteering in a soup kitchen. I contend anyone here that geocaches doesn't need no stinking handout. Use your energy to help those who are REALLY in need.

[+Thrak]

When I started geocaching I wanted to get a FTF. The guy down the block who introduced me to geocaching had a lot of FTFs and I wanted one too. I couldn't seem to manage it. I finally got my first FTF while visiting Montana (I live in California). The cache had been published for maybe a week and nobody had looked for it yet. I was visiting my daughter and snagged the FTF. YES!

 

I later got pretty into the FTF thing and snagged a lot of them. These days I don't really care and others get all of the local FTF logs. I have 230 FTFs - I think that's probably enough for me. I don't say I'll never go for one again but I just don't have the same level of drive or commitment that I used to have.

 

As for it "not being fair" or "I can't get any FTF because I have children and I'm not retired" arguments. Tough. I'm not retired either and, as I said above, I have 230 FTFs. I've seen posts by people with children who have FTF logs. I know people who work and have young children and still get the FTF - taking their kids along with them for the find.

 

Being FTF can take commitment. I can remember zooming out of the house at 10:30 at night - when it was raining - when I had to get up at 5:30 the next morning for work - to head out to the river and search for a cache. Yes, I got wet. Yes, I got poison oak on both arms (and I also had to pee while there so you can guess where else I got poison oak), yes I was tired the next morning. I got the FTF. This wasn't an isolated incident either.

 

If you are CRAZY you can be FTF too.

[+Gitchee-Gummee]

When we were concerned about FTFs.....

There was a bunch published one morning (somewhat locally)-- before we went Premium. Yes, we made the mad rush to get them.

They all were in the forest, scattered through/between/around campgrounds, trails and fishing areas.

 

The best thing was, we simply got a little jump on the others, got a few (FTFs), then the two-track trails became clogged with geocachers. What really occurred was a Flashmob Event out in the middle of nowhere. Met a lot of geocachers and had a hoot of a time.

Really, it was so much fun, we are thinking of doing a similar maneuver -- placing 20+ caches and making arrangements to have them published all at the same time.

 

Now, a bit down the road, we don't normally rush to grab up an FTF. Must confess however, not long ago, we were visiting about 750 miles from home. Ran a PQ to refresh the GPSr and Lo and Behold, one cache had a ["NEW"] flag. Without any probable chance of ever getting an FTF so far from home, we did rush out and grab it .

[+Zenock]

G'day all, "First off" This is NOT about myself or sour grapes Bla Bla Bla as I am NOT a First to Find person (But many are) and thats my point.

 

I brought this topic up (again I bet) as I just read that most "First to Finds" are logged by only 1% of geocachers (That tends to agree with my findings :-)

 

To the point, I have a few friends with kids and one friends daughter wanted a First to Find so they set up all they needed with the Iphone app (instant notifications) got everything ready to run out the door, but never make the first to find yet and we are a cache rich area with many new ones coming on line all the time.

 

Why you may ask? well, and again, I am not bitching as I know "a few" will go that route to just discredit my thoughts on this issue, BUT the main reason why she cant get her first to find is there is a small group of cachers that seem to consistently get there first.

 

We all must remember this is a Hobby not a "profession" I have seen the hobby of Amateur radio (Ham) go that route, where the few "Big Guns" the guys with BIG bank rolls usually retired win the contests almost every year with out fail and NOT due to skill and effort but to use an analogy we can all relate to is, think of competing against Microsoft (Nuf Said)

 

In the end, how many first to finds does one need? maybe we should set a "Community limit of five" and after that let some others (Kids) get there first :-)

 

I'm teaching my 4 year old to play chess (I know this is Geocaching, but I have a point to make bare with me). He has never beat me and he won't until he beats me. I will not LET him win. If anyone else plays against me, I will not LET them win. When they beat me, they will KNOW they beat me fair and square. That's what gives it significance. If I let them win, it doesn't mean anything.

 

I view FTF as the same thing. If everybody hangs back and lets you get a FTF what does it mean? There is no significance if it isn't earned. Likewise, if there is that one guy that's really really good at getting them and you beat him to it, it's going to mean a lot more. You will be able to say, hey I even beat FTFKing to that one.

 

I think just as with any other sport, you will find that after a while people will get bored with being FTF on difficulty 1 finds. They will move on to challenge themselves and leave the difficulty 1s to people that aren't bored with it.

 

If you are really concerned about it though. Why don't YOU go get yourself a bunch of 35mm containers put some logs in them and drive around looking for lamp posts to hide them in.

 

Then after hiding them, you could post them as a series called "The newbie caching series."

 

The description could say something like this...

 

"I posted this series to give people new to caching some easy finds and maybe even a chance to get their first FTF. If you are an experienced cacher, looking for a quick find feel free to grab it. But, you should feel deeply ashamed of yourself and be ready to face mocking and ridicule if you grab it as a FTF."

 

With that as a description I certainly wouldn't grab it and I don't have a FTF yet. You could also post them all at the same time (coordinating with the reviewer) to make it harder for one person to grab them all.

 

So if you really think something needs to be done, do something. Otherwise you really are just "sour grapes Bla Bla Bla" for you or on behalf of someone else.

[+SwineFlew]

 

I'm teaching my 4 year old to play chess (I know this is Geocaching, but I have a point to make bare with me). He has never beat me and he won't until he beats me. I will not LET him win. If anyone else plays against me, I will not LET them win. When they beat me, they will KNOW they beat me fair and square. That's what gives it significance. If I let them win, it doesn't mean anything.

 

I view FTF as the same thing. If everybody hangs back and lets you get a FTF what does it mean? There is no significance if it isn't earned. Likewise, if there is that one guy that's really really good at getting them and you beat him to it, it's going to mean a lot more. You will be able to say, hey I even beat FTFKing to that one.

 

I think just as with any other sport, you will find that after a while people will get bored with being FTF on difficulty 1 finds. They will move on to challenge themselves and leave the difficulty 1s to people that aren't bored with it.

 

If you are really concerned about it though. Why don't YOU go get yourself a bunch of 35mm containers put some logs in them and drive around looking for lamp posts to hide them in.

 

Then after hiding them, you could post them as a series called "The newbie caching series."

 

The description could say something like this...

 

"I posted this series to give people new to caching some easy finds and maybe even a chance to get their first FTF. If you are an experienced cacher, looking for a quick find feel free to grab it. But, you should feel deeply ashamed of yourself and be ready to face mocking and ridicule if you grab it as a FTF."

 

With that as a description I certainly wouldn't grab it and I don't have a FTF yet. You could also post them all at the same time (coordinating with the reviewer) to make it harder for one person to grab them all.

 

So if you really think something needs to be done, do something. Otherwise you really are just "sour grapes Bla Bla Bla" for you or on behalf of someone else.

HELLO?!?!?!?! Hes only 4 years old!! When he get older, step up the game but not at that age. If I play a game of hoop with my niece and nephew, you think I will let them win? yes, oh yes, but once they get older, I will step it up. Thats how you teach kids.

[4wheelin_fool]

Being a FTF hound could be considered an obsessive compulsion to bolt out of the house in all forms of undress at all times of day to molest lampposts and such after recieving a single email. Perhaps there is a reason why it is not sanctioned by Groundspeak, as teaching small children the behaviour could be considered child abuse!

[+NYPaddleCacher]

G'day all, "First off" This is NOT about myself or sour grapes Bla Bla Bla as I am NOT a First to Find person (But many are) and thats my point.

 

I brought this topic up (again I bet) as I just read that most "First to Finds" are logged by only 1% of geocachers (That tends to agree with my findings :-)

 

To the point, I have a few friends with kids and one friends daughter wanted a First to Find so they set up all they needed with the Iphone app (instant notifications) got everything ready to run out the door, but never make the first to find yet and we are a cache rich area with many new ones coming on line all the time.

 

Why you may ask? well, and again, I am not bitching as I know "a few" will go that route to just discredit my thoughts on this issue, BUT the main reason why she cant get her first to find is there is a small group of cachers that seem to consistently get there first.

 

We all must remember this is a Hobby not a "profession" I have seen the hobby of Amateur radio (Ham) go that route, where the few "Big Guns" the guys with BIG bank rolls usually retired win the contests almost every year with out fail and NOT due to skill and effort but to use an analogy we can all relate to is, think of competing against Microsoft (Nuf Said)

 

In the end, how many first to finds does one need? maybe we should set a "Community limit of five" and after that let some others (Kids) get there first :-)

 

I'm teaching my 4 year old to play chess (I know this is Geocaching, but I have a point to make bare with me). He has never beat me and he won't until he beats me. I will not LET him win. If anyone else plays against me, I will not LET them win. When they beat me, they will KNOW they beat me fair and square. That's what gives it significance. If I let them win, it doesn't mean anything.

 

Have you ever seen a father and son (or daughter) play "race you to that tree", watch the father "try" to get there first but somehow falter near the finish and saw the joy on the kids face when they "beat their dad"? It's the kind of game where the purpose of the game is not to see who wins the race, but to have fun...you know, sort of like geocaching.

 

 

...

 

I think just as with any other sport, ...

 

 

But geocaching isn't like any other sport. Geocaching would not exist if not for those, as part of the geocaching community, volunteer their time, effort, and money to place geocaches for other geocachers to find. It just seems odd to me that for a game which relies upon others in the community there are some people that insist on "winning" against other geocachers in the local community.

 

 

If you are really concerned about it though. Why don't YOU go get yourself a bunch of 35mm containers put some logs in them and drive around looking for lamp posts to hide them in.

 

Then after hiding them, you could post them as a series called "The newbie caching series."

 

The description could say something like this...

 

"I posted this series to give people new to caching some easy finds and maybe even a chance to get their first FTF. If you are an experienced cacher, looking for a quick find feel free to grab it. But, you should feel deeply ashamed of yourself and be ready to face mocking and ridicule if you grab it as a FTF."

 

With that as a description I certainly wouldn't grab it and I don't have a FTF yet. You could also post them all at the same time (coordinating with the reviewer) to make it harder for one person to grab them all.

 

So if you really think something needs to be done, do something. Otherwise you really are just "sour grapes Bla Bla Bla" for you or on behalf of someone else.

 

It's kind of ironic that you've used the terms "mocking" and "ridicule" in your suggestion because that's essentially what you're doing to the OP (which, btw, is in violation of the forum usage guidelines).

[+Zenock]

HELLO?!?!?!?! Hes only 4 years old!! When he get older, step up the game but not at that age. If I play a game of hoop with my niece and nephew, you think I will let them win? yes, oh yes, but once they get older, I will step it up. Thats how you teach kids.

 

My son has plenty of success and victories he has lots of opportunity and I'm not saying I don't let him win at some things some times. I only bring this one thing up to illustrate a point. He knows that the day he beats dad at chess it will be because he earned it. Not because dad gave it to him; it's an understanding we have between each other. I don't need to let him win sometimes to keep him interested. He LOVES playing chess. He plays against the computer, against me, and against anyone he can find to play him. Sometimes he wins, sometimes he loses. I'm only a mediocre player and I'll bet he beats me before he's 10. But he KNOWS that when he beats me (in this one thing) he will have earned it.

 

And that is the point. If someone GIVES you a victory, it doesn't mean near as much. The joy comes from earning it.

[+Zenock]

Have you ever seen a father and son (or daughter) play "race you to that tree", watch the father "try" to get there first but somehow falter near the finish and saw the joy on the kids face when they "beat their dad"? It's the kind of game where the purpose of the game is not to see who wins the race, but to have fun...you know, sort of like geocaching.

 

And I do that with my kid as well sometimes. But when they kid is able to "REALLY" beat their dad it means even more. My example was not meant to say there is never a time to let your kid win. It was meant to say that you shouldn't expect others to let you or your kid win. Because in the end a real win is oh so much better.

 

But geocaching isn't like any other sport. Geocaching would not exist if not for those, as part of the geocaching community, volunteer their time, effort, and money to place geocaches for other geocachers to find. It just seems odd to me that for a game which relies upon others in the community there are some people that insist on "winning" against other geocachers in the local community.

 

I know. I'm one of those people. Yeah maybe I only have 5 hides so far with 2 pending but I'm getting there. Eventually I hope to have hundreds if not thousands of hides. The FTF aspect is about "winning" and other wise that aspect won't exist. If you don't care about being the First well then good for you. I certainly don't. But for the people who do it IS a competitive thing. That's what gives it significance. If no one else is trying to be first, then why would it matter. It would be like having a race where you are the only runner.

 

It's kind of ironic that you've used the terms "mocking" and "ridicule" in your suggestion because that's essentially what you're doing to the OP (which, btw, is in violation of the forum usage guidelines).

 

If the OP feels either mocked or ridiculed, I offer my sincerest apologies. I have read and reread my post and cannot see how anything I wrote could be viewed as mocking or ridiculing the OP or anyone else for that matter.

 

I made a sincere effort to honestly express how I felt about the subject. I do not believe that disagreeing with someones opinion is mocking or ridiculing them. Please let me know EXACTLY what it was I said that was mocking or ridiculing the OP or anyone else, so I can adjust my behavior in the future. Or are you seriously implying that because I think the OP is wrong I am mocking and ridiculing them.

 

Bottom line: I firmly believe a FTF means more the more you have to work for it. I would never want anyone to LET me get one because I didn't have one yet. Same for anything competitive. And let's be honest, FTF is competitive. If it's just about finding the cache, then FTF doesn't matter as long as you find it. So yeah I think the OP is generally wrong.

 

However, I can see where someone might want to give some people new to Geocaching an opportunity they might not otherwise have. So, I gave an the OP an option to where they might accomplish their goals. As to the threat of Mocking and Ridiculing in my example. It was not directed toward anyone except a hypothetical person that doesn't actually exist as a way to make sure people abide by the spirit of the fictitious series I suggested. It was not directed toward the OP or any other real or actual person.

[+Mudfrog]

Bottom line: I firmly believe a FTF means more the more you have to work for it. I would never want anyone to LET me get one because I didn't have one yet. Same for anything competitive. And let's be honest, FTF is competitive.

 

I firmly believe that i agree with you.

 

But,,, haven't you heard? The entitlement generation is here now. They just don't get that feeling of pride obtaining something if they actually have to "work for it".

[+NYPaddleCacher]

 

My son has plenty of success and victories he has lots of opportunity and I'm not saying I don't let him win at some things some times. I only bring this one thing up to illustrate a point. He knows that the day he beats dad at chess it will be because he earned it. Not because dad gave it to him; it's an understanding we have between each other. I don't need to let him win sometimes to keep him interested. He LOVES playing chess. He plays against the computer, against me, and against anyone he can find to play him. Sometimes he wins, sometimes he loses. I'm only a mediocre player and I'll bet he beats me before he's 10. But he KNOWS that when he beats me (in this one thing) he will have earned it.

 

And that is the point. If someone GIVES you a victory, it doesn't mean near as much. The joy comes from earning it.

 

There's a fundamental difference between your chess scenario and geocaching. When you're playing chess with your son, your goal isn't to beat him, it's to teach him how to become a better chess player. The overwhelming impression that I get from those that play and promote the FTF game is that it's all about "winning", and in many cases, crowing about it.

 

I see phrases like "someone GIVES you a victory" or "handing them the FTF". I agree that it would not be very satisfying to be handed the FTF, but there's a difference between letting someone win and giving someone a little head start.

 

I used to play competitive darts and often played "friendly" games against opponents well below and above (I played in a tournament against someone that had just beat the number 1 ranked player in north america). There was one particular player that often frequented my "home pub" that was from Ireland, and whose father played on an Irish national team. On one particular evening I played him 10 games in a row, lost every one of them but enjoyed each one, not just because of the challenge but also because he was a gracious winner. I also played others that were generally well below my skill level. I would often try to take the "harder shot", not to let my opponent win, but to challenge myself.

 

There are numerous phrases like "gracious winner" (or gracious loser), "humble in victory", "giving someone a sporting chance". "level the playing field", and other descriptions for how a game is played, even when a competition involves large amounts of money in professional or collegiate sports. I rarely see any of those phrases in the context of the FTF game. What is see more often is a win at all costs (where the prize is bragging rights) even to the point where there have numerous examples where some don't seem to have any qualms about breaking the law (i.e. entering a park after posted closing hours) and potentially jeopardizing that game being played in any manner.

[+K13]

+1

 

"Daddy, I WANT a FTF, NOW!!"

[+dprovan]

And that is the point. If someone GIVES you a victory, it doesn't mean near as much. The joy comes from earning it.

I know! I've always thought it was ridiculous that high school football teams get to play other high school football teams. They should be required to play college and pro teams. Otherwise, they're just being GIVEN their victories. And what's with T-ball? Absurd! I don't care if they're 6, they should face professional pitchers so they can have the joy of earning their hits.

 

I'm not clear what this has to do with FTFs, but I guess I'm glad no one takes FTFs so seriously in my area. It sounds wretched.

[+Zenock]

And that is the point. If someone GIVES you a victory, it doesn't mean near as much. The joy comes from earning it.

I know! I've always thought it was ridiculous that high school football teams get to play other high school football teams. They should be required to play college and pro teams. Otherwise, they're just being GIVEN their victories. And what's with T-ball? Absurd! I don't care if they're 6, they should face professional pitchers so they can have the joy of earning their hits.

 

I'm not clear what this has to do with FTFs, but I guess I'm glad no one takes FTFs so seriously in my area. It sounds wretched.

 

I'll face any adult going for a cache any day of the week, but please don't put me up against a 6 year old. Their eyes are too quick. (I'm serious) ;-)

[+ChileHead]

+1

 

"Daddy, I WANT a FTF, NOW!!"

 

Of course, you have to read that in an English accent.

[+TerraViators]

Not only do you win the eye-roll of the week award but you've won it for the month too. Sorry. If you need "help" attaining a First to Find then you shouldn't be playing the side game.

 

Just as I thought, Children that never learned how to "play" We are rolling our eyes!!!

 

The issue is not that you have not yet learned how to play the game. But that you're suggesting everyone else hold back so that you can get into the game. To me that just isn't right. If you're handed the prize what good is the competition?

 

WTF?? When did "I" say "I" wanted a first to find and I have many myself but I guess you cant read. Trolls...

That won't get you many supporters. FTF is for the first to find. If others lay back so that your friend can get it, it's really a hollow achievement, isn't it?

[+TerraViators]

Who cares. FTF is a silly high school game in the adult world.

You could argue the same sentiment about geocaching in general, so judging is not appropriate.

[+TerraViators]

I disagree with the 99% / 1% thing, at least in the Seattle area. Could go into some numbers, but not worth the effort really.

In the Dallas/Fort Worth metroplex, that percentage may be sub 1%. I'm an FTF hound, and I can count the serious FTF hounds in the area on both hands.

[+TerraViators]

To get this on topic... I used to be in the FTF game pretty heavy and once I realize how childish its to "hog" all the FTF without letting others get a chance, I really slow down doing the FTF game. I have to say that hogging all the FTF does make other people view you as selfish or greedy. It does show the true color in some cachers when they are hogging all the FTF and the way they write in their online logs.

 

I quit putting out more caches because I got tried of the same FTF hog(s) finding my caches and bragging about it. It does get old after awhile.

 

I know I cant change this whole thing, but I am doing my part to think of other people beside myself. When a kid get a FTF, its the best thing in the world for them and I want them to have those moments when they are still young.

FTFers "hogging" them all?? Shame on Michael Phelps for hogging those gold medals. Shame on any racer for wanting to win every time.

[+frinklabs]

I have been getting a greater number of FTFs than normal lately but that's only because I am on a cache-a-day run and the newly-published caches are closer than anything else available to me. In fact, I am running out of caches to get to on transit.

 

I can admit to a certain amount of gratification when I see that empty logbook, given that I don't actually have a car (or canoe).

 

I have declined "co-FTF" when meeting others at GZ as one of the reasons I like to try for first is to meet other cachers in my area -- there seems to be a dearth of events in the 416 area code (inexplicably). Everyone in the FTF crowd up here is cool and there isn't the angst that I read about, so I guess we are lucky.

 

The most memorable wasn't even mine; it was my daughter's first (and so far, only) FTF, despite the monetary cost to me:

 

 

We had so much fun that evening -- and that's the name of the game.

[+The A-Team]

It's too bad the OP has run away from this discussion, because they probably missed out on some great advice and The_Incredibles_'s heads-up on her new cache. It was published this morning, but there's no sign of the mysterious, unnamed friends. Just some regular local cachers.

[+SwineFlew]

To get this on topic... I used to be in the FTF game pretty heavy and once I realize how childish its to "hog" all the FTF without letting others get a chance, I really slow down doing the FTF game. I have to say that hogging all the FTF does make other people view you as selfish or greedy. It does show the true color in some cachers when they are hogging all the FTF and the way they write in their online logs.

 

I quit putting out more caches because I got tried of the same FTF hog(s) finding my caches and bragging about it. It does get old after awhile.

 

I know I cant change this whole thing, but I am doing my part to think of other people beside myself. When a kid get a FTF, its the best thing in the world for them and I want them to have those moments when they are still young.

FTFers "hogging" them all?? Shame on Michael Phelps for hogging those gold medals. Shame on any racer for wanting to win every time.

 

Thats Apples and Oranges there.

 

Geocaching is fun family game that some people take WAY too serious, along with the FTF side game.

 

Michael Phelps is swimming at a professional level where the playing field is more even. Mr. Phelps have the right to "hog" it all because he works for it. He isnt swimming against someone that isnt very good in swimming.

 

Geocaching is a family game, not a professional game. Big big difference there.

 

If there is a professional level in geocaching of where the playing field is level(everybody got a same starting point), you have the right to hog it all if you work for it.

[+The_Incredibles_]

It's too bad the OP has run away from this discussion, because they probably missed out on some great advice and The_Incredibles_'s heads-up on her new cache. It was published this morning, but there's no sign of the mysterious, unnamed friends. Just some regular local cachers.

 

Yep and it took 42 minutes for the FTF.

 

A jog down the path from parking-5 minutes.

 

With the generous flagging, 5 minutes max to find.

 

That leaves 30 minutes of driving time and still beating the FTF by 2 minutes.

[+Sol seaker]

I don't think "giving" a FTF to the child would be very valuable at all. What would she learn from that??

 

There's a radio advertisement in my area that talks about "dedication." It talks about how things are achieved through being dedicated to doing it. We have these fast-food lives and expect everything to be handed to us, when in truth the best things are things we work for and achieve.

 

This girl could learn a valuable lesson that good things come to those who are dedicated to making them happen.

 

What fun would it be if everyone just stepped aside and let her have it, vs. her planning (putting the things needed by the door, setting up the notifications, etc.) and making the attempt many times, and then finally getting it? The latter example would make her feel like she had accomplished something. The former? Not so much. Boring. No accomplishment.

[+Roman!]

Oops, didn't mean to post.

Edited August 29, 2012 by Roman!

[+Don_J]

 

My son has plenty of success and victories he has lots of opportunity and I'm not saying I don't let him win at some things some times. I only bring this one thing up to illustrate a point. He knows that the day he beats dad at chess it will be because he earned it. Not because dad gave it to him; it's an understanding we have between each other. I don't need to let him win sometimes to keep him interested. He LOVES playing chess. He plays against the computer, against me, and against anyone he can find to play him. Sometimes he wins, sometimes he loses. I'm only a mediocre player and I'll bet he beats me before he's 10. But he KNOWS that when he beats me (in this one thing) he will have earned it.

 

And that is the point. If someone GIVES you a victory, it doesn't mean near as much. The joy comes from earning it.

 

Here's an interesting concept. Perhaps the OP has no interest in beating anyone. Perhaps they just want to know what it's like to be the first person to find a particular cache. When I make a decision to go and try to be FTF, it has nothing to do with beating anyone. It has nothing to do with bragging rights. It has to do with being the person that finds the cache exactly how the CO intended it to be found. Kind of like test driving a car with 0 miles on the odometer.

[+The_Incredibles_]

 

My son has plenty of success and victories he has lots of opportunity and I'm not saying I don't let him win at some things some times. I only bring this one thing up to illustrate a point. He knows that the day he beats dad at chess it will be because he earned it. Not because dad gave it to him; it's an understanding we have between each other. I don't need to let him win sometimes to keep him interested. He LOVES playing chess. He plays against the computer, against me, and against anyone he can find to play him. Sometimes he wins, sometimes he loses. I'm only a mediocre player and I'll bet he beats me before he's 10. But he KNOWS that when he beats me (in this one thing) he will have earned it.

 

And that is the point. If someone GIVES you a victory, it doesn't mean near as much. The joy comes from earning it.

 

Here's an interesting concept. Perhaps the OP has no interest in beating anyone. Perhaps they just want to know what it's like to be the first person to find a particular cache. When I make a decision to go and try to be FTF, it has nothing to do with beating anyone. It has nothing to do with bragging rights. It has to do with being the person that finds the cache exactly how the CO intended it to be found. Kind of like test driving a car with 0 miles on the odometer.

 

If that's all they want, they can hide un-official caches for their kids to find. No need to go on geocaching.com.

[+Roman!]

I enjoy the FTF game but when I win I don't boast and when I lose I congratulate whoever beat me but to me the angst seems to come from those that try but just can't get one. It seems it's not being against the game it's just losing at it that creates the hatred.

 

The difference between being an FTF hound and anti FTF is success ratio

Edited August 29, 2012 by Roman!

[+OZ2CPU]

even a kid dont think it is cool to win, if you let them win,

they want a fair race, this way if/when they win, they can be proud of their achievement.

 

if you stop to run, they slow down too.

try it on your own kids, you see it is true.

 

I think adults in a FTF race works a bit similar :-)

it is only fun to win, since it is HARD..

Edited August 29, 2012 by OZ2CPU

[+bflentje]

When I make a decision to go and try to be FTF, it has nothing to do with beating anyone. It has nothing to do with bragging rights. It has to do with being the person that finds the cache exactly how the CO intended it to be found. Kind of like test driving a car with 0 miles on the odometer.

 

If you reread post #1, I doubt this is the case.

[+hzoi]

I took myself out of the FTF race because I got tired of feeling disappointed when I found a cache and wasn't first. I don't want to feel disappointed or frustrated when I find a geocache. That defeats the whole point of geocaching. I want to enjoy myself, and hopefully enjoy the area where it's hidden as well.

 

Don't get me wrong, it's neat to find one with a clean log now and then. When we happen to be in that position, it's nice, but we rarely bother anymore. I have instant notification to my email just so I know when new caches post, not so I can jump in the car. I get more satisfaction out of finding caches that are supposed to be missing or that just haven't been found in ages.

 

With all that said, the "helicopter parent" attitude of the OP is a little ridiculous. Geocaching may be an activity that is open to all players, but FTF is an unofficial side game best played with a smart phone, privately owned car, and a clear schedule. If your children do not have all of these things at their fingertips, they will not do well at it.

 

edit to add: If you expect others who enjoy the game to take a break so children can get a "gimme" FTF, you are at best coming across as entitled, and all you're doing is trying to hand your children something without value. I threw away all of my "participation" trophies from youth sports when I realized that they meant nothing. My memories and experiences in those sports are what matter, not a shiny chrome/plastic tschotschke with a marble base.

 

edited again to add: PS LOVE THE CAT

Edited August 29, 2012 by hzoi

[Andronicus]

My other 2/3rds iPhone4s has fifteen minute notifications. My sorta-smart windows phone has instant notifications.

I usually call and tell her a new one (she may go for) is out before her phone does.

- Fifteen minute head start in a FTFer-rich area means others are in the car and off before your friends hear about it.

+1

You have to have instant notification. You can not use a POP3 email service. You need a Push email service (IMAP). Gmail has this, as well as some other free sites. You also need to install a email client on your phone that can use this service. The default one on their phone may not work. If your email client is polling the POP3 server every 15 or 30 (or god forbid 60) minutes, the FTF may already be taken before you even get the email.

 

As for "Should people let them get a FTF?" Heck no. What is the point of a FTF in no one else is trying? Recently I got an FTF 2h after publishing. I was happy, but when no one else found it for 4 days, I realised I was the only guy trying. Kind of made is seem less special. Not sure why no one else looked for it, maybe everyone was away at a mega event or something.

[+GrateBear]

If you're really that desperate, look in "hide and seek a cache" by "state/province" and go after new caches that haven't been found yet. For my state, there's one from 8/17 unfound, several from 8/22, plus others. Yeah, they're a couple of hundred miles away, but if you really want one.....

[+Hot Pepper Crew]

As for "Should people let them get a FTF?" Heck no. What is the point of a FTF in no one else is trying? Recently I got an FTF 2h after publishing. I was happy, but when no one else found it for 4 days, I realised I was the only guy trying. Kind of made is seem less special. Not sure why no one else looked for it, maybe everyone was away at a mega event or something.

No one else was looking because you already got the FTF. If you handn't found it, it wouldn't have gone that many days without being found. I've noticed that many caches around here, the FTF happens within an hour, then the second to find often doesn't happen for days.

[+OZ2CPU]

>the FTF happens within an hour, then the second to find often doesn't happen for days.

 

here FTF happen VERY fast..

and then next finds after days,

we have a sort of community agreement or call it a gentleman agreement arround here :

the first one who finds it, post a NOTE or found it log, from his phone in the field,

this way all other on the watchlist will be informed, and can deside if they continue to run,

drop it for now, or slow down,

 

that log is usually a FTF, nothing else yet..

when he get home, he change it to a found it log and add a nice message too.

 

I created 15 caches this month, one released every sec day, at ramdom time of the day,

to test the local areas FTF cachers,

the results cen be seen in the bonus cache called K-finale

http://coord.info/GC3R948

 

some of the 15 caches where actually found BEFORE they where officially released,

 

(tomorrow K15 will be released, and it is allready found)

 

I did NOT leak any informations to anyone, but some people are very smart and know a bit where one can hide caches,

and all caches in this series are very easy to find, even for kids, that was also my point.

rules like distance to others are offcourse followed, so it is possible to find it first, before the "race" begins,

such finds are the coolest if you ask me, this is MUCH harder..

[+pnpure]

You don't always need instant notification. My only FTF was out for a week before I found it. STF was a month after that. More recently, it went from November 2011 until August 2012 without a find.

 

I'm not an FTF hound, by any means. On that one FTF, I noticed it two days after it was published. (I don't have my phone set up to receive notifications, and only saw it on a weekly update.) A few days later, I noticed that it was still not found, and decided to go out there after work. It was a located a little way out of town, so most of the people around here probably never saw it. In fact, most of the people in my area who typically claim FTF didn't find it until it had been out for months.

 

(I do have another find that might qualify as FTF, but I didn't claim it. A cache disappeared, and its hide location was destroyed. Another cacher put out a replacement (with permission of the CO) in a different spot. It was a completely different hide, and was about 75' away from the original, but used the same listing. When I logged it, I jokingly referred to being the first to sign the new log. )

[+kunarion]

You don't always need instant notification. My only FTF was out for a week before I found it.

There was recently a local cache that was up for almost a week before being found. The "First" cacher didn't claim the find, due to a placement issue that required the Cache Owner's presence, the 2nd cacher was "FTF", then the first cacher logged his smiley 2nd. I had intended all week to go Hog that one, but procrastination happens. When I eventually showed up, with the corrected coords and updated cache page, I could not find the cache. So I couldn't claim Third To Find (but I hope to, someday). I was First To DNF. I'm a FTDNF Hog.

 

A cache disappeared, and its hide location was destroyed. Another cacher put out a replacement (with permission of the CO) in a different spot. It was a completely different hide, and was about 75' away from the original, but used the same listing. When I logged it, I jokingly referred to being the first to sign the new log. )

I would get in BIG TROUBLE for trying that around here. Hoo, boy, I will not even use the word "first" in any log, ever again...

Edited August 30, 2012 by kunarion

[+geodarts]

I have signed a blank log at a new cache a few hundred times but have never considered it to be an achievement. It is just a matter of time, personal circumstances, and geography. A 1/1 hide is still a 1/1 hide. A lamp post or bush is still a lamp post or bush. What would it say about me if I ran out of the house or left work to find a cache that I would not be particularly interested in finding under other circumstances? Words other than "achievement" come to mind. So for myself I never "claim a FTF" or use those initials. I do not congratulate someone who finds one of my caches first. Those who care can figure out who signed the blank log.

 

In my area the caches that are found the fastest are the least interesting. But I recently found one that had been sitting below a ridge, unfound for two or three weeks I guess I thought that somebody should go up there for it. So if you want the initials, a hike might increase your chances, but sooner or later your time, your circumstances, and your geography will probably converge.