Is Groundspeak Inc. getting very rich from this outdoor hobby?

[silvershadelynx]

Hi all,

 

I'm new to geocaching and I'm really enjoying it. I did only 2 caches. I read about the membership and the restrictions for a non-member. Membership is 30 dollar per member per year. I don't know the number of premium members but it seems that a lot of people here are premium member. (forum statistics show 800071 members and I suppose > 50 pct are premium members)

 

Personally I would think 30 dollar is a lot (too much) of money for webhosting and an online database. So my question is: is Groundspeak Inc. getting very rich from this business? It seems they are earning millions of dollars from this activity if my very rough calculations are correct. What are your ideas about this? It seems most people find the price very reasonable and think they do a good job paying the membership cost.

[+Isonzo Karst]

You can get a huge amount of value here for free, as a Basic Member, and a lot more for the price of an app (which i think is $10) if you have a smart phone. $30 seems reasonable for the added benefits of Premium Membership. Particularly given that those benefits keep increasing, and the price for them has stayed the same.

 

Re the direct question, "getting very rich", Groundspeak is privately held company, their tax returns are not public, so all speculation about profit is feckless. I sincerely hope the owners have done well. They took the chances, and did the work, back when it wasn't apparent that there might ever be a profitable business in hosting geocaches.

 

I suspect you're seriously underestimating costs, and staff numbers. The most recent Lackey coin, a geocoin which includes the avatars of all employees (Lackeys) has over 60 avatars. That's 60+ salaries, with benefits... that number is probably up since the coin was minted.

 

I don't think your calculation re forum membership# x 50% PM is apt to be close. Any person who created a forum membership at any time is still on that member list. Your recent member number is 6,232,170. Only some fraction of all accounts ever created are currently active, and only some fraction of those are Premium Members.

Edited August 15, 2012 by Isonzo Karst

[+eusty]

I've no problems paying for PM

 

I remember reading somewhere that Groudspeak do OK, but are not a mega rich company. But at the end of the day they are a business...so why should they do things for nothing?

 

[Chino1130]

If they are getting rich... So be it. The created something that millions of people enjoy for a very low cost. They deserve it.

[Mr.Yuck]

Yes they are. And I've long noted, seeing as you're from The Nethelands, that a privately held, for profit, American Company having a de-facto monopoly on the game has never gone over too big in European circles. That's a general statement, yes, but I'll stand by it. But put on your Asbestos suit, and plan on standing alone in this North American poster domintated forum.

 

P.S. I've never even thought the premium memberships their No. 1 source of income. Think Aluminum dog tags that cost pennies to produce for $5.95, and a $1 to $2 cut of every trackable geocoin ever manufactured.

[Mr.Yuck]

If they are getting rich... So be it. The created something that millions of people enjoy for a very low cost. They deserve it.

 

PSSST. They didn't create it.

[silvershadelynx]

hi,

 

thanks for your replies.

 

I forgot to mention that this website looks really nice and well-made. But I was just curious about opinions of other members about membership cost and whether or not Groundspeak would make a lot of profit from this business.

 

(I suppose geocache-related quesions will soon follow after I have some more experience )

Edited August 15, 2012 by silvershadelynx

[Mr.Yuck]

hi,

 

thanks for your replies.

 

I forgot to mention that this website looks really nice and well-made. But I was just curious about opinions of other members about membership cost and whether or not Groundspeak would make a lot of profit from this business.

 

(I suppose geocache-related quesions will soon follow after I have some more experience )

 

Well, the cost has always been #30 a year from when premium memberships were first created in late 2001, and has never increased. Sure there are many more members now, but there are many more caches, and we could say the website is "bigger" and costs more to run.

[+Walts Hunting]

hi,

 

thanks for your replies.

 

I forgot to mention that this website looks really nice and well-made. But I was just curious about opinions of other members about membership cost and whether or not Groundspeak would make a lot of profit from this business.

 

(I suppose geocache-related quesions will soon follow after I have some more experience )

 

Why shouldn't they make a lot of money. They took the risk to build the business (unless you are a democrat and don't think business' build themselves),

.

In a capitalist society companies are free to charge whatever they want the consumers decide who succeeds. Others have triedmtomset up competition and all have failed.

 

I suppose in Europe the courts would force them to give up their data for the common good but not here. Here you build it you keep it.

Edited August 15, 2012 by Walts Hunting

[+Gitchee-Gummee]

Well, it IS a business.... not unlike Microsoft, Apple, Exxon Mobil, China Mobile, Royal Dutch Shell or many-many-many others (just not as big).

They found the niche, where there was a "need", developed and engineered it to what it is today.

 

If they get rich from it -- more power to them! I just have a hard time knocking entrepreneur-"ism".

 

The difference with this one, you can still participate for "free" (more or less)! You don't need to buy anything. You would need access to information (web access), but you can use your neighbors' computers. You don't need a GPSr (a few do it without those), quite a few use smart phones only (which they already had, anyway) and a free app.

 

I simply feel it was a wise move on their part. If they hadn't done it, somebody else would have and that somebody could have locked it so that you would have had to buy everything (even right down to individual coordinates).

 

Where else does one get a service for free, or a relatively low-cost? Please don't tell me government, 'cuz you are paying for that, too -- Big Time!

[+St.Matthew]

If they are getting rich... So be it. The created something that millions of people enjoy for a very low cost. They deserve it.

 

Thank you! I hope they are getting very rich off of us.

[cezanne]

They found the niche, where there was a "need", developed and engineered it to what it is today.

If they get rich from it -- more power to them! I just have a hard time knocking entrepreneur-"ism".

 

I do not care whether or not they are rich, but I'm sure that they could establish what they have only because there is no serious competitor. What they offer from the technical and software point of view is very weak and would not get stronger if they asked for 100$ or more for the premium membership. They have much more staff that is busy with non-technical issues. The are lacking brilliant technical geniuses.

A product like GSAK is superior to all what gc.com offers from the technical point of view.

 

The people that I'm thankful to with regard to geocaching are the cache hiders and not a company.

 

Cezanne

Edited August 15, 2012 by cezanne

[+Lieblweb]

You've only found 2 caches....You have no idea just how great this hobby can be.

 

You haven't been out hiking some beautiful trails to find geocaches and seen the beautiful scenery that you never knew existed.

 

You haven't taken your bicycles out of the shed after 12 years and rode 10 miles to find geocaches along the way. And laughed when you got caught in a rain storm but kept on riding anyway while you laughed...

 

You've never had the sudden urge to buy kayaks just to get geocaches on the river - yet, after you've found all the water geocaches....you continue to paddle on the water just because is GREAT FUN!!

 

Hell - I pour more money into APPLE and all I get is a phone and some Apps.

 

If you can't afford $30, then you need to find another hobby!!

[+Gitchee-Gummee]

<snip>

A product like GSAK is superior to all what gc.com offers from the technical point of view.

<snip>

Ahhhh... but don't you see???? Another niche was found and filled by another entrepreneur!

[RuideAlmeida]

The people that I'm thankful to... are the cache hiders.

 

Clap, clap, clap.

Thats it!

[+Sol seaker]

Yes, and if it weren't for Groundspeak people would hide caches and we'd never know it.

 

 

I compare the price to cable TV. How much do you pay per month for that? Geocaching is much better for you and a much better value.

 

Turn off your cable TV and geocache instead. It will save you a lot of money and be better for your health. I did.

[+Mike & Jess]

P.S. I've never even thought the premium memberships their No. 1 source of income. Think Aluminum dog tags that cost pennies to produce for $5.95, and a $1 to $2 cut of every trackable geocoin ever manufactured.

 

The last time we had coins made, it was I think $1.50USD per number and $50 or $75 for the coin icon (picture). Please keep in mind, it's been a while since I looked at this, so it may be different now.

 

As for products.... retailers (the small local shops and mail order sites) make very little to almost nothing on geocaching products. Most stuff has a margin of less than 5 points after shipping. Larger margins are available if you are willing invest the money in minting your own coins and or create your own products. Even that is a lot less margin them most other industries.

Anyway, enough about that bit. We do it to give back to the communities.

 

It should also be noted that a lot of lackeys are volunteer. Most (if not all)reviewers are volunteer as well.

 

It's a brilliant business model, and they work hard to keep this (and the political crap that comes with all things) out of sight of the regular cacher in order to keep the game/sport/hobby fun.

You can't fault GS for capitalizing for doing what they did, when they did as if it wasn't for them, we might not have this large of a community and could be stuck with small groups or sights which would really isolate areas and caches.

 

My suggestion to the OP is this;

Enjoy the game, and don't worry about the company or politics.

The more you know about it, and the more you become involved, the less likely you'll enjoy it. Some of the politics (mostly local) has soured the game for me, but I'm still here as my two young boys enjoy it and my wife and I are too deeply involved in the local community to simply walk away.

Get out there, do some caches and enjoy the adventures you will have.

[silvershadelynx]

hi everyone,

 

thanks for all your replies. I find this an interesting topic. I have been an outdoor freak since I was a small kid, and I exclusively drive my bicycle and I don't have a car. So I'm already familiar with outdoor activity and discovering new places, although walking (geocaching) introduces me to new places that I couldn't have found by bicycle which is a very good thing.

 

The reason for creating this topic / questioning about getting rich is probably because to me it feels a little contradictory: nature is "free", placing the geocaches and finding and reviewing them is also "free", but there's one company that owns the database of all these caches and is asking money for it. (but I do understand that they can't do it for free and I'm not saying this is wrong)

Edited August 15, 2012 by silvershadelynx

[silvershadelynx]

My suggestion to the OP is this;

Enjoy the game, and don't worry about the company or politics.

The more you know about it, and the more you become involved, the less likely you'll enjoy it. Some of the politics (mostly local) has soured the game for me, but I'm still here as my two young boys enjoy it and my wife and I are too deeply involved in the local community to simply walk away.

Get out there, do some caches and enjoy the adventures you will have.

 

I think this is a good point. Lets find another cache

Edited August 15, 2012 by silvershadelynx

[+Sol seaker]

This question comes up from time to time and it always amazes me.

 

Why is it people care how much money Groundspeak makes? Because it is fun? Then should Disneyland be free? You'll have to take that up with them.

 

How about movies? They're fun. How many new movies would get made if they were free? Skip 3 a year and you've got a geocaching membership. Or 6 lattes a year, but maybe that's just in Seattle.

 

I think it's really great they let people play for free. You don't have to be a member to play. What other company does that?

[+Sol seaker]

hi everyone,

 

thanks for all your replies. I find this an interesting topic. I have been an outdoor freak since I was a small kid, and I exclusively drive my bicycle and I don't have a car. So I'm already familiar with outdoor activity and discovering new places, although walking (geocaching) introduces me to new places that I couldn't have found by bicycle which is a very good thing.

 

The reason for creating this topic / questioning about getting rich is probably because to me it feels a little contradictory: nature is "free", placing the geocaches and finding and reviewing them is also "free", but there's one company that owns the database of all these caches and is asking money for it. (but I do understand that they can't do it for free and I'm not saying this is wrong)

 

But they do do it for free.

You don't have to be a member to play.

Who else does that?

 

It is true it's in their best interest to do that, but they don't have to.

Edited August 15, 2012 by Sol seaker

[Mr.Yuck]

This question comes up from time to time and it always amazes me.

 

Why is it people care how much money Groundspeak makes? Because it is fun? Then should Disneyland be free? You'll have to take that up with them.

 

How about movies? They're fun. How many new movies would get made if they were free? Skip 3 a year and you've got a geocaching membership. Or 6 lattes a year, but maybe that's just in Seattle.

 

I think it's really great they let people play for free. You don't have to be a member to play. What other company does that?

 

Does it amaze you it was invented and played for totally free on Usenet, and they came along after the fact, and "commercialized" it? All the alternatives out there tout themselves as being totally free and open, even that horrible one created by a famous GPS manufacturer.

[+Sol seaker]

This question comes up from time to time and it always amazes me.

 

Why is it people care how much money Groundspeak makes? Because it is fun? Then should Disneyland be free? You'll have to take that up with them.

 

How about movies? They're fun. How many new movies would get made if they were free? Skip 3 a year and you've got a geocaching membership. Or 6 lattes a year, but maybe that's just in Seattle.

 

I think it's really great they let people play for free. You don't have to be a member to play. What other company does that?

 

Does it amaze you it was invented and played for totally free on Usenet, and they came along after the fact, and "commercialized" it? All the alternatives out there tout themselves as being totally free and open, even that horrible one created by a famous GPS manufacturer.

 

Yes, you could find all 20 of the caches on Usenet for free, and all 200 of those caches (worldwide) from over there.

 

The game has grown just a bit.

I can find more within two miles of my house.

 

Go ahead and list some caches on your own site. You'll learn the value of what we get here.

[+lamoracke]

they have salaries, pretty expensive location for rent, hopefully health care...they do a lot of free giveaways (just ask and they will give you coins, swag for your events!), their employees travel to events across the world promoting the hobby, they have to pay for the google maps, a lot of data....have no idea. At least they do not spend all their money on cheap slave labor overseas or so so so much money for athletic sponsored commercials (ie Nike, Adidas) as opposed to the slave labor, have no overseas tax shelters most likely....so they are probably a good company.

[+Isonzo Karst]

It should also be noted that a lot of lackeys are volunteer. Most (if not all)reviewers are volunteer as well.

 

Just a minor correction here, Lackey specifically refers to paid staff. The volunteer group are reviewers, moderators and some translators.

[4wheelin_fool]

Hi all,

 

I'm new to geocaching and I'm really enjoying it. I did only 2 caches. I read about the membership and the restrictions for a non-member. Membership is 30 dollar per member per year. I don't know the number of premium members but it seems that a lot of people here are premium member. (forum statistics show 800071 members and I suppose > 50 pct are premium members)

 

Personally I would think 30 dollar is a lot (too much) of money for webhosting and an online database. So my question is: is Groundspeak Inc. getting very rich from this business? It seems they are earning millions of dollars from this activity if my very rough calculations are correct. What are your ideas about this? It seems most people find the price very reasonable and think they do a good job paying the membership cost.

 

$30 is not too much at all, as it is completely optional to pay it, as 90% of caches or more are available to regular members. The only thing unusual about the setup is all of the volunteer reviewers and cache hiders that donate their time, energy, and caches to keep it going. Most for-profit companies are not supported by such a large volunteer base, which only is a testament to how much fun people are having.

[cezanne]

their employees travel to events across the world promoting the hobby,

 

I guess not everyone will be in favour of that.

I do not care whether Groundspeak is rich or not, but I'm convinced that exponential growth rates are bad for geocaching.

Promotion is certainly the last what geocaching needs in many European countries. Moreover, it is more about promoting Groundspeak than promoting geocaching.

 

I would not want to contribute a single cent to the travel cost of Groundspeak employees to events - if they finance it via sponsors, fine, if they really use money coming from cachers, I doubt that this is a way of using their income in a way that most cachers feel confident with.

 

Cezanne

Edited August 15, 2012 by cezanne

[Mr.Yuck]

Hi all,

 

I'm new to geocaching and I'm really enjoying it. I did only 2 caches. I read about the membership and the restrictions for a non-member. Membership is 30 dollar per member per year. I don't know the number of premium members but it seems that a lot of people here are premium member. (forum statistics show 800071 members and I suppose > 50 pct are premium members)

 

Personally I would think 30 dollar is a lot (too much) of money for webhosting and an online database. So my question is: is Groundspeak Inc. getting very rich from this business? It seems they are earning millions of dollars from this activity if my very rough calculations are correct. What are your ideas about this? It seems most people find the price very reasonable and think they do a good job paying the membership cost.

 

$30 is not too much at all, as it is completely optional to pay it, as 90% of caches or more are available to regular members. The only thing unusual about the setup is all of the volunteer reviewers and cache hiders that donate their time, energy, and caches to keep it going. Most for-profit companies are not supported by such a large volunteer base, which only is a testament to how much fun people are having.

 

That is a very good point. I have made that observation in the past, and I used to think they were alone in having "such a large volunteer base, which only is a testament to how much fun people are having" as you said, but then Foursquare, Inc. came along, which has a much larger base of volunteers who willingly work for free for the betterment of that game. I even tried to myself, but was rejected. But I've been told that they already had enough in my area at that time.

[+Viajero Perdido]

If nobody's allowed to get rich, nobody will take the chance to build the next great thing.

 

Vote as you see fit.

[Mr.Yuck]

their employees travel to events across the world promoting the hobby,

 

I guess not everyone will be in favour of that.

 

 

Yes, lamoracke, many could interpret that as being consistent with the OP in that they are getting rich.

[+farrtom]

I am curious about the numbers of premium members. I would think that half of the total members is even way high.

I have meet and talked about geocaching with a few people who have said they used to cache a few years ago but don't anymore or people who have signed up to check it out but never got that into it. I also think that there maybe multipule accounts in some homes but maybe only one is a PM. My teenage kids have their own free accounts but I am the only one with a premium membership in our house.

 

I don't have a problem with the dues or how much they are making. They are providing me a service that I enjoy. I have cancelled our cable TV, newspaper and most magazine subscriptions, I go to very few movies a year and don't visit some business's because I didn't feel I was getting what I wanted out of them compared to the price I was paying. If I ever get that way with geocaching I will stop paying for the PM.

[+lamoracke]

Lackeys are going to events already organized, they would happen if they were there or not....I imagine someone from Germany would appreciate someone coming. Folks complain that everything is Pacific Northwest focused (we had the ape cache, all the souvenirs, the block party), so when a lackey or Jeremy actually goes over to say Czech Republic to help one of their events be a little better, its now a bad thing? Can't please everyone I guess.

[Mr.Yuck]

This question comes up from time to time and it always amazes me.

 

Why is it people care how much money Groundspeak makes? Because it is fun? Then should Disneyland be free? You'll have to take that up with them.

 

How about movies? They're fun. How many new movies would get made if they were free? Skip 3 a year and you've got a geocaching membership. Or 6 lattes a year, but maybe that's just in Seattle.

 

I think it's really great they let people play for free. You don't have to be a member to play. What other company does that?

 

Does it amaze you it was invented and played for totally free on Usenet, and they came along after the fact, and "commercialized" it? All the alternatives out there tout themselves as being totally free and open, even that horrible one created by a famous GPS manufacturer.

 

Yes, you could find all 20 of the caches on Usenet for free, and all 200 of those caches (worldwide) from over there.

 

The game has grown just a bit.

I can find more within two miles of my house.

 

Go ahead and list some caches on your own site. You'll learn the value of what we get here.

 

No need for me to start my own website. Plenty of others who know what they're doing have done that. Well, except for Garmin. Who woulda thought I could get multiple digs in at Garmin in this thread?

 

Yes, the game has grown. Who says it couldn't have remained Opensource? One can cache in Germany without ever looking at this website, and can use an Opensource project that is totally free, and works just as good in many people's opinion, and lists 60,000 caches. More than I'll ever find in my lifetime, and in a much smaller Country. Also rather consistent with my earlier statement that the whole Groundspeak, Inc. corporate thing is much less popular across the pond, where the OP happens to be from also.

[knowschad]

I read about the membership and the restrictions for a non-member.

You're a "glass is half-empty" type of person, apparently. Most of us see the membership as getting us benefits, rather than non-membership imposing restrictions.

 

$30 a year is dirt cheap entertainment. Try take your family to the amusement park for one day for $30.

[+Castle Mischief]

I read about the membership and the restrictions for a non-member.

You're a "glass is half-empty" type of person, apparently. Most of us see the membership as getting us benefits, rather than non-membership imposing restrictions.

 

$30 a year is dirt cheap entertainment. Try take your family to the amusement park for one day for $30.

 

Try taking your family to Taco Bell or the movies for $30. $30 a year is chump change and I'm more than happy to pay it for the features that I get.

[+niraD]

I am curious about the numbers of premium members. I would think that half of the total members is even way high.

I think the folks at Groundspeak would be absolutely ecstatic if half the members were premium members. The reality is far less than that.

 

The last statistics I saw indicated that half the accounts haven't logged more than about 35 finds. The person who introduced me and several others to geocaching still has fewer than 30 finds and has never been a premium member. Of the people I know from outside geocaching who are also geocachers, very few are premium members. That is far more typical than the people you meet at a geocaching event. Serious geocachers are atypical, and that includes anyone who has found more than 100 caches, and anyone who has paid for a premium membership.

 

And of course, as others have indicated, running a web site and hiring employees isn't cheap either.

 

But with that said, I would have no problem with the folks at Groundspeak getting rich. They didn't invent geocaching, but they did build a successful web site and business. I just don't think the site is quite the cache cow that some assume it is.

[+SwineFlew]

I will say that Groundspeak isnt hurting.

 

The trackable dog tag is worth gold. Yes, I know they are working hard to protect it.

[+Ike 13]

Feb 29 was heavily promotted and most active cachers were finding at least one cache that day to fill in their 366 grid. The number of cachers that logged a cache was 83,516. So I would not put active members more than 100,000. I don't know the percentage of PM but I doubt it's 50%. Let's say it was 20% (that seems reasonable to me). That's $600,000 a year in PM fees. I don't know if they're filthy rich, but even if they were it wouldn't bother me. $30 a year is a bargain for all the service it provides.

[jholly]

I will say that Groundspeak isnt hurting.

 

The trackable dog tag is worth gold. Yes, I know they are working hard to protect it.

Amway works hard to protect their products, Avon works hard to protect their products, Apple works hard to protect their products, Microsoft works hard to protect their products. What company doesn't work hard to protect their products? Why should Groundspeak be different? I'm glad Groundspeak is doing well, that means the web site will be maintained.

[jholly]

Feb 29 was heavily promotted and most active cachers were finding at least one cache that day to fill in their 366 grid. The number of cachers that logged a cache was 83,516. So I would not put active members more than 100,000. I don't know the percentage of PM but I doubt it's 50%. Let's say it was 20% (that seems reasonable to me). That's $600,000 a year in PM fees. I don't know if they're filthy rich, but even if they were it wouldn't bother me. $30 a year is a bargain for all the service it provides.

Given the speculated overhead $600,000 doesn't even start to keep the lights on.

[+SwineFlew]

Feb 29 was heavily promotted and most active cachers were finding at least one cache that day to fill in their 366 grid. The number of cachers that logged a cache was 83,516. So I would not put active members more than 100,000. I don't know the percentage of PM but I doubt it's 50%. Let's say it was 20% (that seems reasonable to me). That's $600,000 a year in PM fees. I don't know if they're filthy rich, but even if they were it wouldn't bother me. $30 a year is a bargain for all the service it provides.

Yep! Thats where I got my numbers as well but I disagree about the percentage.

 

The extra revenue is their store and ads. Anything else that I am missing?

Edited August 15, 2012 by SwineFlew

[cezanne]

Lackeys are going to events already organized, they would happen if they were there or not....I imagine someone from Germany would appreciate someone coming. Folks complain that everything is Pacific Northwest focused (we had the ape cache, all the souvenirs, the block party), so when a lackey or Jeremy actually goes over to say Czech Republic to help one of their events be a little better, its now a bad thing? Can't please everyone I guess.

 

I agree with your last sentence, but not with most of what you wrote before, but that's certainly subjective.

In any case, I do not regard visits of lackeys at events as a reasonable manner to spend money coming from geocachers (provided it is spent in that way). I also doubt that a event gets better because Jeremy or someone else from Groundspeak shows up. Speaking only for myself, there are a few Groundspeak volunteers from Northamerica I'd like to meet, but hardly any lackeys. With the exception of Moun10bike most of them do not seem to be really involved in geocaching.

 

In any case I think this is an side issue here - I just was tempted to comment on it because you mentioned travels to events. I'd rather see Groundspeak offer the volunteer reviewers at least a small compensation than sending lackeys to events.

 

Cezanne

[+Ohiosiouxfan]

Movie ticket prices in Toledo, Ohio are $10 for adult and $7.25 under 12 years old. Taking my family of 5 to the movies - no drinks or popcorn - is $44.50 for two hours entertainment.

 

You may be interested in this thread on "How much do you spend geocaching": http://forums.Groundspeak.com/GC/index.php?showtopic=294632&st=0&p=5028576&fromsearch=1entry5028576

 

And frankly, I don't really care how much they make. It's their business model and they will charge whatever the market will allow. If the demand doesn't equal the price, there's no business getting done.

Edited August 15, 2012 by Ohiosiouxfan

[cezanne]

Feb 29 was heavily promotted and most active cachers were finding at least one cache that day to fill in their 366 grid. The number of cachers that logged a cache was 83,516.

 

I'd be very careful with this kind of estimation. I know many very active cachers who do did not log a cache on Favruary 29. There are many that do not care about the 366 grid and also many who do not have a findable cache close by to be found that they can visit in the middle of the week.

 

Cezanne

[+Ike 13]

Feb 29 was heavily promotted and most active cachers were finding at least one cache that day to fill in their 366 grid. The number of cachers that logged a cache was 83,516. So I would not put active members more than 100,000. I don't know the percentage of PM but I doubt it's 50%. Let's say it was 20% (that seems reasonable to me). That's $600,000 a year in PM fees. I don't know if they're filthy rich, but even if they were it wouldn't bother me. $30 a year is a bargain for all the service it provides.

Yep! Thats where I got my numbers as well but I disagree about the percentage.

 

The extra revenue is their store and ads. Anything else that I am missing?

yea it's hard to pinpoint an actual PM percentage.

 

As far as other profit streams trackable numbers is a big one.

[+Ike 13]

Feb 29 was heavily promotted and most active cachers were finding at least one cache that day to fill in their 366 grid. The number of cachers that logged a cache was 83,516.

 

I'd be very careful with this kind of estimation. I know many very active cachers who do did not log a cache on Favruary 29. There are many that do not care about the 366 grid and also many who do not have a findable cache close by to be found that they can visit in the middle of the week.

 

Cezanne

That's why I added 16,500 (over 18%) and made it 100,000. I know not everyone got out and logged one that day, but I figured a large majority would have.

[MisterEFQ]

I hope they are getting rich.

[cezanne]

Feb 29 was heavily promotted and most active cachers were finding at least one cache that day to fill in their 366 grid. The number of cachers that logged a cache was 83,516.

 

I'd be very careful with this kind of estimation. I know many very active cachers who do did not log a cache on Favruary 29. There are many that do not care about the 366 grid and also many who do not have a findable cache close by to be found that they can visit in the middle of the week.

 

Cezanne

That's why I added 16,500 (over 18%) and made it 100,000. I know not everyone got out and logged one that day, but I figured a large majority would have.

 

In my personal sample it is not a large majority.

But I anyway think that the larger proportion of the income comes from other sources than PM-fees such as trackables.

 

Cezanne

[+nintendudes]

I'm only in my 2nd month of geocaching but I will add my $0.02.

 

I became a PM after 2 finds and didn't really give it a 2nd thought. I would estimate thus far the kids and I have gotten about 100 hours of entertainment. Of all the expenses associated with this hobby, the cost of the PM is the least of my concern. Even the cost of the GPSr (bought new at Cabella's) is fairly insignificant considering the periodicity of such a purchase. The real expense that I've found to be the hardest to digest is the freaking fuel. I still have a pretty good amount of caches within a 5 mile radius of my home and I'm still getting 1-2 days less out of a tank of gas. I can't imagine the fuel cost of those with thousands of finds.

 

If anybody is getting rich from geocaching, it's Exxon.

[Mr.Yuck]

Feb 29 was heavily promotted and most active cachers were finding at least one cache that day to fill in their 366 grid. The number of cachers that logged a cache was 83,516.

 

I'd be very careful with this kind of estimation. I know many very active cachers who do did not log a cache on Favruary 29. There are many that do not care about the 366 grid and also many who do not have a findable cache close by to be found that they can visit in the middle of the week.

 

Cezanne

That's why I added 16,500 (over 18%) and made it 100,000. I know not everyone got out and logged one that day, but I figured a large majority would have.

 

The points made, and the numbers thrown around, are interesting. At least for us armchair speculators. Also, we know from CacherStats.com that well under 200,000 people worldwide have found 200 or more caches. There's not a heck of a lot highly active Geocachers, and highly active Geocachers tend to be premium members. I'm of the opinion a single digit percentage of the 5,000,000 accounts are premium, probably 1/4 million (250,000) maximum. I maintain trackable numbers are their biggest revenue source. Since we're speculating, and all.

 

Cezanne's comments about flying lackey's all over the world to events may be slightly off-topic as she says, but it does have the definite hint of corporate excess. I know the privately held company of 50 Employees I work for (a little smaller than Groundspeak, although two years ago, I couldn't say "smaller") doesn't have the money to fly employees all over the world, to essentially attend picnics. :o I do acknowledge the unique nature of the Groundspeak company though, and the goodwill that practice provides.