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Logging an Archived Cache


alandb
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What is the policy on logging a find of an archived cache? I have a reason for asking this. A cache in a nearby park was recently archived because the CO has apparently abandoned it and is no longer active. I still had the cache in my pocket query, so I hiked to the spot and found the cache in pretty good shape. I cleaned it up (had been disabled for over a year), signed the log and uploaded it as a find in my field notes. My log entry seemed to take and incremented my find count. I checked into adopting this cache but found out Groundspeak doesn't allow adoption of archived caches. I realize that I could just create a new cache at this location, but I had another idea and wanted to run it by the experts here.

 

I am thinking of creating a new cache on this trail at least .1 miles from the original and calling it something like "Twofer Surprise". The new cache would have its own log, and also a printout with coordinates of the original archived cache ... sort of making it like a 2 stage multi where you could log both stages. I would maintain both the new cache and the original one. If the original CO ever shows up, he can take it back.

 

So what happens if other users find this archived cache and log it through the "back door" (accessing the profile and finds of a previous finder of the archived cache, then adding a log entry)? I am not trying to break any rules ... that is why I am asking here before I do it.

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If you found a cache (be it active, disabled or archived) and signed the log you can claim it as a find.

 

If I were you I would remove the cache from wherever it was hidden and post a note on the cache page letting the cache owner know you have it. Tell him (or her) that you will dispose of the cache in 30 days if you do not hear from them. This is a great way to help eliminate a cache becoming trash in the woods.

 

If the cache is still in good enough shape then perhaps you can reuse the container in a new cache. I've done that before.

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Can you log the archived cache you found? Yes I have done this on occasion.

 

Should you include it as a 'bonus' for a new cache? I don't think it's against the rules, but I don't think I would do it. Most locals may have already found that cache. Even if the CO did come back unarchiving a cache is not standard, plus someone else may hide a cache within 520 feet and thus the archived cache would be used to subvert the proximity guidelines.

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You're fine logging the archived cache, after all, you found it. But continued logging by others can get the older listing locked.

 

If you want to resubmit the archived cache as a new listing, you can absolutely do so, and that's probably the best way to do it.

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CO hasn't cached since '06 and not active for almost a year now.

Remove the archived geolitter and either reuse what you can or pitch it.

There may be a reason Groundspeak themselves temp-disabled the hide the day the CO became "inactive". Why risk pushing it?

Place your own hides where you'd like (within guidelines).

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Normally, you CAN log an archived cache. (Occasionally, Groundspeak also locks logging when they archive a cache.) Whether you SHOULD seek and log an archived cache depends.

 

In this instance, the cache was archived because the owner was inactive, so finding the cache and logging your find is okay. Other times, though, caches are archived because the land manager no longer wants geocaching to occur in that area. Or a reviewer learns that the cache is located on private property without permission. In cases like these, you should not look for the archived cache.

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I had a similar experience with a archived cache but it turned out that the cache I found was a replacement cache by another cacher who had not contacted the CO. The sad part is that the cache was from 2001 and was the oldest cache in our area. It was archived after just a few months above being temporarily disabled. The CO lived a few hours away from the cache location and didn't get to it fast enough for the reviewer.

 

To make the story a little more interesting (at least to me) is that a few weeks ago we had a CITO in the park that the cache was located in and we found the original cache mostly buried in the mud not far from the original location. The log had a taunting (but harmless) message from the non-cacher who found it and moved it from the original location. It had been archived and "missing" for about 2-1/2 years.The contents were in good shape.

 

I would love to get the cache un-archived and replaced (I took the cache out to keep it safe) but I am not sure our reviewer will go for it. The original cache owner is still active and willing to work with me to get it un-archived.

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I definitely would not include it in a new cache listing.

 

It was Groundspeak that initially disabled it, then finally archived it this year, with the message "If you wish to repair/replace the cache sometime in the future, just contact us (by email), and assuming it meets the current guidelines, we'll be happy to unarchive it." Seems like a pointless message, maybe, but there it is.

 

As for the owner being "inactive", there's probably a story behind that action.

 

http://support.Groundspeak.com//index.php?pg=kb.page&id=102

 

In this case, I wouldn't even recommend removing the cache without specific instructions to do so from the cache owner.

 

I hope that if a flood of cachers start logging it as found, the reviewer will notice, and the cache page will be locked.

 

 

B.

Edited by Pup Patrol
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I found one archived, logged it as found and repported it as in good shape,

and it got re-activated by its CO,

so that is also a way it can be done.

 

if a cache is both archived, AND what i find is useless as a cache,

first THEN it is liter, and I take it with me.

and write about it in the LOG..

Edited by OZ2CPU
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Apparently this cache owner contacted Groundspeak, and asked for their account to be disabled. That's what generated the log from the bizarre, and rarely used Groundspeak automated inactive cache owner disabling bot. Yes, there really is one, I wouldn't make it up. :ph34r:

 

Then the cache was archived later on. As far as your idea, it's not all thet whacky and zany, I have definitely seen listings that encourage people to find a nearby still there archived cache. I just can't remember where, or if it was more than one time. However, I'm fairly certain you'd never "get away" with naming your cache "Two-fer", or making this whole thing the central idea behind your cache. You could probably "get away" with a sentence on your cache page, and/or a note in your new cache with the coordinates and GC number.

Edited by Mr.Yuck
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What is the policy on logging a find of an archived cache? I have a reason for asking this. A cache in a nearby park was recently archived because the CO has apparently abandoned it and is no longer active. I still had the cache in my pocket query, so I hiked to the spot and found the cache in pretty good shape. I cleaned it up (had been disabled for over a year), signed the log and uploaded it as a find in my field notes. My log entry seemed to take and incremented my find count. I checked into adopting this cache but found out Groundspeak doesn't allow adoption of archived caches. I realize that I could just create a new cache at this location, but I had another idea and wanted to run it by the experts here.

 

I am thinking of creating a new cache on this trail at least .1 miles from the original and calling it something like "Twofer Surprise". The new cache would have its own log, and also a printout with coordinates of the original archived cache ... sort of making it like a 2 stage multi where you could log both stages. I would maintain both the new cache and the original one. If the original CO ever shows up, he can take it back.

 

So what happens if other users find this archived cache and log it through the "back door" (accessing the profile and finds of a previous finder of the archived cache, then adding a log entry)? I am not trying to break any rules ... that is why I am asking here before I do it.

 

Since the old cache is archived it is not taken in to consideration when applying the Cache Saturation rule. You can still place your new .1 miles from the old cache but nothing would stop someone else from coming along and using the same location that the old cache is in. Especially since your cache will be .1 miles away and anyone placing a new cache at the location of the old cache will still be within' the Cache Saturation guidelines.

 

To prevent this from happening you can either relist the old cache. I'd attempt to get permission from the old CO if you are thinking of reusing or removing his container. This old cache may still be actively listed on some other website and not all geocaching websites are public like this one. Or you can place you new cache closer than .1 miles to the old one. This will prevent anyone else from reusing that spot.

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I wouldn't take it, some people list their caches on more than one site. It might still be active on another listing service.

 

In theory, yes. But almost never the case, in reality. Don't think I'm a wise guy, I've placed over 20 caches exclusive to Opencaching.us and Terracaching.com, and still feel that way. Anywho, Iowa is somewhat of a Terracaching hotbed (by their standards), but nope, I don't see it listed there on the map.

 

But I totally agree. Personally, I'd never, ever remove someone's archived cache without their permission.

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I found one archived, logged it as found and repported it as in good shape,

and it got re-activated by its CO,

so that is also a way it can be done.

A CO cannot re-activate an archived listing - (s)he must contact a reviewer to do it. The CO can re-activate a disabled cache.
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To the OP: if you found a cache you log a find and get a smiley. I did it once, situation similar to yours. The cache was on my PQ, I made the find, signed the log and found it archived when i went to log it. The guidelines SAY that archived caches are supposed to be picked up by the CO. I suspect in many cases it does not actually happen. The container isn't mine so I'm not going to remove it unless directed by either the CO or by the land owner/manager.

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Thanks to everyone for the replies and advice. I doubt that this cache is listed anywhere else as there were no other entries in the log newer than the previous one logged here 14 months ago before the cache was disabled by Groundspeak. I would like to get permission from the CO, but his/her contact info is no longer available. So I guess I will just abandon the idea and the cache. I may go back and clean it up a little more and put a fresh log book in it. Who knows ... maybe a few Iowans will read this and go find it and log it.

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What about archived Virtual caches? Many get archived because the CO no longer responds, but it's still there. I've got a database set up in GSAK with all active virtuals in the U.S. I'm sure that some will be archived should I ever have time to find them all :blink:

 

The only virtuals or webcams that I have logged that were archived at the time I logged them had approval from the CO. Nothing to stop you, but the more folks do it, the more will get locked and then folks who are probably logging for more customary reasons (splitting accounts up or being behind in their finds) will not be able to due to being locked.

 

Just your own conscience.

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Nothing to stop you, but the more folks do it, the more will get locked and then folks who are probably logging for more customary reasons (splitting accounts up or being behind in their finds) will not be able to due to being locked.

 

Just your own conscience.

Hadn't thought of this because we've never split an account and have a quirk about posting as soon as we get home, but this is the best logical reason to not promote logging of archived caches. Thanks for the insight!

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The idea that others have had here, about not doing it because it may encourage others to do the same is very valid.

 

There are a lot of reasons why caches are archived. When I visited Groundspeak headquarters they said they got about one complaint a week about a cache that was a problem,and a request to remove it (archive).

 

So the problem is that if it was a cache that was archived because it was bugging the neighbors it's going to give geocaching a "black eye"; a bad name.

 

Now the cache you're looking at doesn't seem to be that case, but if others get the idea from you, the caches they chose to use may have been archived because of bothered neighbors, it really being on private property, or something like that.

 

I guess we all have to realize when we hide caches others do take our ideas and run with them.

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Denmark statistics

#enabled caches 22869

#disabled caches 10001

#archived caches 9311

#hidden this year 4414

#hidden last week 90

#finds 3222699

#finds this year 493260

#finds last week 405

 

in other words, there are almost as many disabled and archived as there are enabled caches !!

at least in my area, but I think it is more or less the same ratio all over the world.

so if you can find them, and sign their log book, sure you get a smiley :-)

but it is a JOKER !! you newer know what you get, so be prepared to be looking for nothing.

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What about archived Virtual caches? Many get archived because the CO no longer responds, but it's still there. I've got a database set up in GSAK with all active virtuals in the U.S. I'm sure that some will be archived should I ever have time to find them all :blink:

I won't find archived virtuals. Most virtuals have verification requirements, and I assume the cache owners no longer want to be bothered with having to verify claimed finds.

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Denmark statistics

#enabled caches 22869

#disabled caches 10001

#archived caches 9311

 

in other words, there are almost as many disabled and archived as there are enabled caches !!

at least in my area, but I think it is more or less the same ratio all over the world.

I'm not sure about the ratio of archived caches, but the disabled cache figure seems much higher than what I've seen in North America. Of the 999 enabled and disabled caches located within 11.33 kilometers of my home (Calgary, Alberta, Canada), only 50 of them are disabled.

Edited by CanadianRockies
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For this particular hiding spot my initial question has become moot. Someone else has claimed the spot and placed a new cache in the exact spot. The new cache is a day challange which I and many other geocachers do not qualify to log (at least for a long time). I am glad there is a cache here again, but unfortunately this type of challenge will probably not draw a lot people to this beautiful section of the park trails. I guess I need to find a couple of other hiding spots along the trail and place some more caches that will attract a larger group of cachers.

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