Why do you log a DNF

[+Totem Clan]

Pulled these from another thread. Yes, I know this topic has been done before, but it seems that it needs to be done again.

 

OK, I do understand that it has it's advantages for other cachers,

and I can especially relate to the CO, who of course would want to know how his cache is doing.

 

The only point I don't get is why I as a cacher should log a DNF - I mean, I could also post a note explaining how I searched up and down and couldn't find it, instead of a DNF, and it wouldn't look so bad in my statistics...

Of course there are those who say the DNF's are part of the statistic, but I like my profile with it's (I think, not sure though)3 DNF's in 300 caches...I mean, a lot of DNF's kinda make you look bad, don't they?

 

 

(emphasis mine)

 

Oh boy.

 

I would personally look at that 1% DNF stat and say, "here is a geocacher that doesn't bother to log his DNFs, and is thereby hurting his local caching community". Logging DNFs is a POSITIVE contribution to the community. By NOT logging your DNFs, you are doing a disservice to other cachers and cache owners.

 

I proudly and diligently log ALL of my DNFs, which happen about 10% of the time.

 

My stats:

 

Found It!: 3,188

Didn't Find It: 303

Needs Maintenance: 64

Needs Archived: 49

 

So do you log them? Should you log them? Why?

Edited January 22, 2012 by Totem Clan

[+Totem Clan]

I log DNF's because I Did Not Find the cache. I do it for myself, for the CO, and for other cachers. If you don't log a DNF you are not helping the CO and other cachers know what is going on with the cache. They are there for the same reason that the NM and NA logs are there.

 

I could go on for awhile but I'll let some others weigh in first.

 

Here's my stats

 

Finds 560

DNF's 59

NM 6

NA 16

[+Otis.Gore]

Yeah, I understand that it does help the community.

But as I said, why not post a note?

The way I see it, there are only 2 outcomes.

1. find the cache = success

2. don't find it = failure

As in many other sports, the goal is success, so I'm not proud of my failed attempts.

When playing dart, I don't count the number of times I missed the board

[+Totem Clan]

Yeah, I understand that it does help the community.

But as I said, why not post a note?

The way I see it, there are only 2 outcomes.

1. find the cache = success

2. don't find it = failure

As in many other sports, the goal is success, so I'm not proud of my failed attempts.

When playing dart, I don't count the number of times I missed the board

You keep score in darts. You don't keep score in Geocaching.

 

Also the board doesn't disappaer and need to be replaced by the Pub owner in darts.

 

The next players at board are in no effected by your game in darts. In geocache what you and everyone else does to the game piece changes the next players game.

 

Big differnce.

[+Bear and Ragged]

If I Did Not Find the cache. For whatever reason.

The reason will be stated in the log. Too many people around/getting late/etc.

If the hint is "In the tree" and there are no trees around but you can see where it was, I may say something in the log -without stating any of the hint- to tip off the CO. And follow up with an email.

 

Occasionally it may be a Note, rather than a DNF, for example I turn up and find a crowd of muggles hanging around eating lunch, so I don't even attempt to look for the cache.

(Handy for others to know if there are times of the day to avoid!)

[+webscouter.]

Yeah, I understand that it does help the community.

But as I said, why not post a note?

The way I see it, there are only 2 outcomes.

1. find the cache = success

2. don't find it = failure

As in many other sports, the goal is success, so I'm not proud of my failed attempts.

When playing dart, I don't count the number of times I missed the board

 

But if you were a quarterback you would know your pass completion percentage, a basketball player your free throw percentage, a baseball player your batting average. I could go on but the point is that your skill level is only complete if you show both sides of the equation.

 

My numbers

Found 5816

DNF 661

 

As an observation I have noticed that anytime this comes up the percentage is just about 10% DNF for most of the cachers that log accurately.

[+Totem Clan]

So the normal cacher will not find 1 cache out of every 10 they look for. If that is the norm what 'shame' is there in posting it?

[+kunarion]

Yeah, I understand that it does help the community.

But as I said, why not post a note?

Because it helps the community. When deciding if I'll hunt a cache I may look at a cache page to find the number of DNFs. I rarely count the notes.

Edited January 22, 2012 by kunarion

[+kunarion]

So the normal cacher will not find 1 cache out of every 10 they look for. If that is the norm what 'shame' is there in posting it?

Most people who feel shame from not finding a cache won't log anything, note nor DNF. They also make a cut-n-paste terse Found log on caches -- they seem to be ashamed of finding it.

[+hukilaulau]

Yeah, I understand that it does help the community.

But as I said, why not post a note?

The way I see it, there are only 2 outcomes.

1. find the cache = success

2. don't find it = failure

As in many other sports, the goal is success, so I'm not proud of my failed attempts.

When playing dart, I don't count the number of times I missed the board

This has also been said before, but it depends on why you're playing the game.

My two possible outcomes are:

1. Had fun = success

2. Didn't have fun = failure

The result does not always depend on whether or not I found the cache.

I was hiking and exploring long before I started geocaching. That's always fun even if I DNF a cache.

I don't like shopping malls or the rear ends of fast food joints. That's never fun, even if I find a cache. (I admit, I still give in to temptation and have to re-learn this from time to time!)

 

If you are ONLY doing this to find little plastic containers, then yeah, I see your point.

[+cx1]

I log a DNF when after I have gone to the given coordinates and attempted a search I was not able to find the cache.

I do not consider it an attempt if both criteria were not met(being at the coordinates and performing a search).

If I do not leave my car I personally do not consider it an attempt.

If activity in the area prevents me from performing a search I do not consider it an attempt.

Many people filter out caches that have recent DNF logs(without actually reading the log). Therefore I want to be accurate on my DNF logs. I went to the coordinates and attempted a search. To me anything less then that is disingenuous.

[+doug_hollyNKC]

Found 1030

DNF 92

 

If I made an actual attempt at the GZ and didn't find it, then I log it as such. If I show up at the parking lot and there is a summer picnic going on with 300 people 30 ft. from the gz then I'll likely just write a note mentioning I arrived at muggleville.

 

If I'm planning a caching run and I see a cache within it that has 4 or 5 dnf's in a row and it's rated 1.5/1.5 and a size regular then I'm likely skipping it. If I see a difficulty 4 cache that has lots of dnf's, but about 1 in 4 or 5 cachers come up with it, then I'll go for the challenge. The dnf logs are very helpful in my opinion.

[+Totem Clan]

I log a DNF when after I have gone to the given coordinates and attempted a search I was not able to find the cache.

I do not consider it an attempt if both criteria were not met(being at the coordinates and performing a search).

If I do not leave my car I personally do not consider it an attempt.

If activity in the area prevents me from performing a search I do not consider it an attempt.

Many people filter out caches that have recent DNF logs(without actually reading the log). Therefore I want to be accurate on my DNF logs. I went to the coordinates and attempted a search. To me anything less then that is disingenuous.

exactly

 

+1

To me a correctly logged DNF is just a good as a correctly logged Find.

[+briansnat]

Yeah, I understand that it does help the community.

But as I said, why not post a note?

The way I see it, there are only 2 outcomes.

1. find the cache = success

2. don't find it = failure

As in many other sports, the goal is success, so I'm not proud of my failed attempts.

When playing dart, I don't count the number of times I missed the board

 

Why post a note when the appropriate log type is a DNF? You are just confusing the issue. If the issue for you is one of success vs. "failure", how then does posting a note instead of a DNF, or not logging it at all negate that "failure"?

 

Part of it is a matter of why you participate in this sport. If your only goal is to increment your find count, then I guess you could consider not finding a cache a failure. I don't cache for the smileys, I cache to get outdoors and discover interesting places. Because of that I don't see any of my DNFs as a failure. Find or no find I still got outdoors and discovered what the CO wanted me to, whether it was a scenic waterfall, beautiful view, pretty spot in the woods, historic location, unusual feature, whatever. In that respect all of my cache hunts are a success regardless of whether I signed the log or not.

Edited January 22, 2012 by briansnat

[+Gitchee-Gummee]

Pulled these from another thread. Yes, I know this topic has been done before, but it seems that it needs to be done again.

 

OK, I do understand that it has it's advantages for other cachers,

and I can especially relate to the CO, who of course would want to know how his cache is doing.

 

The only point I don't get is why I as a cacher should log a DNF - I mean, I could also post a note explaining how I searched up and down and couldn't find it, instead of a DNF, and it wouldn't look so bad in my statistics...

Of course there are those who say the DNF's are part of the statistic, but I like my profile with it's (I think, not sure though)3 DNF's in 300 caches...I mean, a lot of DNF's kinda make you look bad, don't they?

 

This quote represents one of the more interesting things or ideas that people seem to conjure up.

 

I would be inclined to think that he/she is playing baseball, working to keep their batting average high, or keeping the ERA up so that they aren't traded or sent to the minors...

 

Perhaps I am missing something, but I looked at my stats (such that they are), both in the geocaching.com stats and cachestats. I simply do not find a DNF category or ratio. Maybe I missed it in the setup and I could include it. If so, I wish that I would've included it. For one thing, because it would've been the truth. As it stands, I don't see them. Because of that, I doubt that you can see my DNF stats, either. So just where is the shame, if there is shame associated with it a DNF?

 

Yes, I log DNFs. I do so because it is the DNF that has a story to tell. Be it a gosh-awful hunt that went awry; too many muggles present; a sudden deluge nearly drowned me; a skunk sitting atop the cache; a nest of angry hornets nearby; or I simply could not find it (reasons unknown)! Multiple DNF logs (by me) on a single find usually make for a novel -- there have been a couple of them.

 

Flip that coin over and oftentimes a cache find has little in the line of a story to tell. I came, I found, I signed, I left.

True, it can have a story, but the REAL story is usually the DNF.

 

As far as the history of the cache goes... I do feel that it is important for the history of the cache. Perhaps it was placed with the intent of being a difficult or tricky find as opposed to a P&G. Perhaps it was moved or is missing. Perhaps it was there and you just didn't recognize it for what it was. Just maybe, heaven forbid, you had a 'senior moment' and it was next to your toe whilst you looked at everything else. The reasons for a DNF are endless. I fail to see how it makes you look bad or incompetent... unless of course, you are perfect. Interesting thought there, tell a lie in order to be perfect... hmmmmmmmm. Sort of like trying to kid yourself, wouldn't you think?

 

If your stats are important enough to make you lie in order to look perfect, then by all means, go for it. We all know better and it really doesn't matter one way or the other to us.

 

EDIT: speeling

Edited January 22, 2012 by Gitchee-Gummee

[+luvvinbird]

Logging a DNF definitely helps the CO keep track of his/her cache. I've had owners contact me to offer additional clues, I've also seen concerned owners temporarily disable a cache to check on the whereabouts or status of it. A DNF is an important piece of information that conscientious CO's need (and use) for the welfare of their caches. The down side of logging a DNF is strictly personal, "I'm embarrassed that I didn't find it when everyone else did". The good communication benefits of logging a DNF outweigh the bad.

[+briansnat]

Logging a DNF definitely helps the CO keep track of his/her cache. I've had owners contact me to offer additional clues, I've also seen concerned owners temporarily disable a cache to check on the whereabouts or status of it. A DNF is an important piece of information that conscientious CO's need (and use) for the welfare of their caches. The down side of logging a DNF is strictly personal, "I'm embarrassed that I didn't find it when everyone else did". The good communication benefits of logging a DNF outweigh the bad.

 

I once DNFed a cache that had nearly 100 finds without a DNF. I was certain it was missing, but someone logged a find the next day. Last time I looked there were many more finds. Mine was the only DNF. Am I embarrassed by that? Not at all. I simply missed it. It happens to all of us, no big deal, no black mark.

[+qq7]

I completely agree with lasto post of Totem Team and Briansnat

Edited January 22, 2012 by qq7

[+cx1]

 

As an observation I have noticed that anytime this comes up the percentage is just about 10% DNF for most of the cachers that log accurately.

Curious as to how you arrive at the 10% figure.

I know you stated most cachers that log accurately and not all cachers. But from personal experience I wonder how true that is.

I feel I log my DNFs accurately yet I am running a <4% DNF rate(according to GSAK anyway).

[+NicknPapa]

I log a DNF when after I have gone to the given coordinates and attempted a search I was not able to find the cache.

I do not consider it an attempt if both criteria were not met(being at the coordinates and performing a search).

If I do not leave my car I personally do not consider it an attempt.

If activity in the area prevents me from performing a search I do not consider it an attempt.

Many people filter out caches that have recent DNF logs(without actually reading the log). Therefore I want to be accurate on my DNF logs. I went to the coordinates and attempted a search. To me anything less then that is disingenuous.

 

This is what I do most of the time. The exception would be when I drive up and see a place that I simply don't have any desire to look in, i.e. around a fast food joint's dumpsters or a Wal Mart lamp post. Now if there were such a thing as an "I'll never ever look for this one" log I might change that.

A lot of people think that those should count as DNFs but I feel that sends a false message to the CO and future searchers. If we should log DNFs on caches we didn't look for we would all have a LOT of DNFs....

[+kunarion]

Yes, I log DNFs. I do so because it is the DNF that has a story to tell. Be it a gosh-awful hunt that went awry; too many muggles present; a sudden deluge nearly drowned me; a skunk sitting atop the cache; a nest of angry hornets nearby; or I simply could not find it (reasons unknown)! Multiple DNF logs (by me) on a single find usually make for a novel -- there have been a couple of them.

+1

 

If I have something useful to post, I'll post it, often in the most appropriate category (DNF when I "Did Not Find" -- go figure). It's important for me to know "I may not even get out of my car to search due to too many muggles". And I like to look at my DNF list and see which ones I'd like to tackle again. But I'm one of those strange cachers who enjoy Geocaching, whether it's a DNF or Find.

[+webscouter.]

 

As an observation I have noticed that anytime this comes up the percentage is just about 10% DNF for most of the cachers that log accurately.

Curious as to how you arrive at the 10% figure.

I know you stated most cachers that log accurately and not all cachers. But from personal experience I wonder how true that is.

I feel I log my DNFs accurately yet I am running a <4% DNF rate(according to GSAK anyway).

 

Take a look at the cachers who posted their stats on this thread. Just about 10% for the four that I saw. It seems to be that way any time this thread pops up. It is only an observation and I am sure that there are lots of exceptions.

[+NicknPapa]

 

As an observation I have noticed that anytime this comes up the percentage is just about 10% DNF for most of the cachers that log accurately.

Curious as to how you arrive at the 10% figure.

I know you stated most cachers that log accurately and not all cachers. But from personal experience I wonder how true that is.

I feel I log my DNFs accurately yet I am running a <4% DNF rate(according to GSAK anyway).

 

I don't know how webscouter arrived at that figure but most of those who have listed their found/DNF numbers here are running pretty close to 10%. Our stats are 372 found it, 42 DNF or 10.2%. Of the 42, 14 were later confirmed missing, 28 we just didn't see the first time around.

 

For the record, I don't believe a DNF is a failure. If we could find them all they would all have to be pretty spectacular or the game would be boring and only numbers people would play.....

[Clan Riffster]

Just about 10% for the four that I saw.

That seems to be fairly global. Naturally there are folks with ratios both above and below the 10% mark, but I think 10% is the norm. Those with higher/lower ratios could be better at finding, worse at finding or failing to accurately log their attempts. I'm sitting at 1614 finds, 186 DNFs, which, if my math brain cells are awake, is about 8.7%?

 

I love my DNFs, as they often reflect the best adventures. Since I revel in my cache finding suckiness, I joined a Facebook group created for such purpose, ISAG. (I Suck At Geocaching) https://www.facebook.com/#!/groups/EyeSag/

[+webscouter.]

Just about 10% for the four that I saw.

That seems to be fairly global. Naturally there are folks with ratios both above and below the 10% mark, but I think 10% is the norm. Those with higher/lower ratios could be better at finding, worse at finding or failing to accurately log their attempts. I'm sitting at 1614 finds, 186 DNFs, which, if my math brain cells are awake, is about 8.7%?

 

I love my DNFs, as they often reflect the best adventures. Since I revel in my cache finding suckiness, I joined a Facebook group created for such purpose, ISAG. (I Suck At Geocaching) https://www.facebook.com/#!/groups/EyeSag/

 

11.5% but no one is counting.

[+softballmom19]

I know I may get some flak calling geocaching a sport but to me its like a sport in many ways. I don't feel a DNF is a failure its sportsmanship. I'm letting others in the sport know that I played the game but didn't win because I didn't find the cache. I'm saying ok I played a good game in looking for it but didn't find it. I think that we look at failure the wrong way. If I fail at something but gave it my best then is it still a failure? Failure is only good if you learn something from it and do better the next time. I don't fail I just didn't suceed.

[+Totem Clan]

I love my DNFs, as they often reflect the best adventures.

One of my best adventures that I had in my early caching days was a DNF on a cache in a greenway in Anchorage, Alaska. It made me love caching even more. That cache was a big success and not failure at all.

 

... and here's the log for all to see.

 

Edit: fixed broken link.

Edited January 22, 2012 by Totem Clan

[+Lil Devil]

I log all my DNFs mainly as a note to myself. I travel a lot. I might come back and look for the same cache a year or 2 or 3 later. I'm going to get there and think "this place looks familiar. haven't I been here before?" Then I can look at the past logs in my device and see my old DNF log that said something like "couldn't do a proper search due to two muggles making out on the bench next to the cache." Since those 2 are long gone, today I can search.

[+L0ne.R]

I post a DNF if I feel it's a service to the community or the CO. If I feel the CO gets a kick out of a lot of DNFs I probably won't log anything. Especially if the CO didn't provide an accurate Difficulty rating. As a CO I'm absolutely fine with a Note instead of a DNF. I'm even happy with an email if the finder doesn't want to post a dnf or a note. I want people to let me know if there's a problem and/or they think the cache might be missing, so whatever they're comfortable with (dnf or note or email) is fine with me.

[+kunarion]

I want people to let me know if there's a problem and/or they think the cache might be missing, so whatever they're comfortable with (dnf or note or email) is fine with me.

I'm guessing that people who can justify not making a DNF, can also justify no notes, no emails. It's more about them proclaiming they're anti-establishment, less about Geocaching.

[+L0ne.R]

I want people to let me know if there's a problem and/or they think the cache might be missing, so whatever they're comfortable with (dnf or note or email) is fine with me.

I'm guessing that people who can justify not making a DNF, can also justify no notes, no emails. It's more about them proclaiming they're anti-establishment, less about Geocaching.

I"m sure that's the case for some. But we have had a couple of people leave notes instead of dnfs on our cache hides.

[+NicknPapa]

I'm sitting at 1614 finds, 186 DNFs, which, if my math brain cells are awake, is about 8.7%?

 

I love my DNFs, as they often reflect the best adventures. Since I revel in my cache finding suckiness, I joined a Facebook group created for such purpose, ISAG. (I Suck At Geocaching) https://www.facebook.com/#!/groups/EyeSag/

 

10.33%. 1614+186=1800 186/1800=.103333333333 or 10.33%

 

I may have to look up that facebook group

[+popokiiti]

I log a DNF if I don't find the cache. It's my caching history and I'm proud of it. I frequently DNF easy caches, but find trickier ones that have a few DNFs - go figure. My DNF logs are usually my best ones...

Not sure of my DNF/Find ratio - it would be interesting to know, but as I haven't attempted to find out, it probably means I don't give a toss.

[Mr.Yuck]

About 15% here, don't have a calculator handy, and it's a hit and run post.

 

The somewhat rare times I don't log them? When I think the cache is stupid, to be frank, and goes on the ignore list after my initial visit. Mainly horrifically trash filled areas. Along with some needle in a haystack type things.

[+Lieblweb]

How or IF you log a DNF is totally up to YOU.

 

There are no rules why or when to log a DNF.

 

The rules YOU SET in your mind....is what you go by. It doesn't have to be complicated.... and it doesn't have to stress you out. Just do it or not.

[+kunarion]

do it or not.

"... there is no try."

 

[+larryc43230]

I log a DNF when after I have gone to the given coordinates and attempted a search I was not able to find the cache.

I do not consider it an attempt if both criteria were not met(being at the coordinates and performing a search).

If I do not leave my car I personally do not consider it an attempt.

If activity in the area prevents me from performing a search I do not consider it an attempt.

Many people filter out caches that have recent DNF logs(without actually reading the log). Therefore I want to be accurate on my DNF logs. I went to the coordinates and attempted a search. To me anything less then that is disingenuous.

exactly

 

+1

To me a correctly logged DNF is just a good as a correctly logged Find.

+1

 

There have been unusual exceptions. If I'm in the woods and can't figure out how to get to GZ (can't figure out how to cross the stream safely, or can't find the gap in the otherwise-impenetrable brush), I figure that's my fault and I'll log a DNF. That's happened maybe half a dozen times since I started caching.

 

Here are my stats:

 

Finds 3,853

DNF's 381

NM 46

NA 4

 

I think it's really interesting that the DNF to cache hunt ratio tends to be very close to 10% for most cachers. Some sort of universal law at work here, maybe.

 

--Larry

[+The Blorenges]

Oh for goodness sake... Just log your DNFs!

 

 

 

Just try it, it's not difficult, you'll get better at it.

 

look...

 

Here's one I made earlier.

 

 

MrsB

[medoug]

Yeah, I understand that it does help the community.

But as I said, why not post a note?

The way I see it, there are only 2 outcomes.

1. find the cache = success

2. don't find it = failure

As in many other sports, the goal is success, so I'm not proud of my failed attempts.

When playing dart, I don't count the number of times I missed the board

 

Let's see.... Golf is a game where you keep score by how many time you hit the ball. If everyone cheated in golf and didn't record when the ball didn't go in the hole, they would all score an 18 (one point for each hole-in-one). Likewise, if you are caching for the points or a low DNF-to-find ratio and you don't log a DNF everytime you don't find the cache after making a serious attempt, you are in effect cheating on your score.

 

medoug

 

P.S. Anyone looking at my numbers for finds or DNFs can probably figure out that I don't geocache for the points or score. I still log the DNFs, however, for the cache owner's and other cacher's information as well as a record of my experience during my attempt.

[Clan Riffster]

10.33%. 1614+186=1800 186/1800=.103333333333 or 10.33%

My next T-shirt:

"Math. Just one of the things I suck at"

 

There are no rules why or when to log a DNF.

That's true. If someone decides to be lazy and not log them, or if they don't care about letting the cache owner get important feedback, or even if for some reason they equate a DNF to failure, and their self esteem is too delicate to suffer the perceived shame, there will be no late night knock on the door by the DNF Police.

 

Because you are right. There are no rules.

 

There are, however, societal mores. Those pesky little things that the majority feels are good ideas, because they act to keep the game going in a positive manner. Logging DNFs certainly qualifies as one of those.

[+tomfuller & Quill]

I wrote a note recently instead of posting a DNF. The note was to the effect of "I saw the cache. I touched the cache. I could not get the lid off the cache. The cache is either frozen down or the big rock it is under settled."

This let the CO know the situation and also let anyone after me know what to expect.

My very first cache log on geocaching dot com was a DNF log. I think I saw the cache but I didn't want to risk splitting my pants to get down there. My first "found it" log was a FTF on a micro hanging in a tree.

If you don't have a clue where the cache is and you think it may be missing, file the DNF proudly.

[+ZeLonewolf]

The somewhat rare times I don't log them? When I think the cache is stupid, to be frank, and goes on the ignore list after my initial visit. Mainly horrifically trash filled areas. Along with some needle in a haystack type things.

 

All the more reason to log the DNF -- so I don't have to go looking for it after you!

[+NeverSummer]

I always log DNFs. I could care less if I ran some GSAK stat about percentages and came up with 99% DNF rate. I'd rather look for a cache, and if I did not find, I log it as such. It helps me keep track of the many, many caches I've looked for/found, and helps the owner know if something is up with the cache.

 

Now, there are owners who could care less about DNFs being posted on their caches, because they intentionally made it hard to find. But they never know then if the cache might actually be missing. Placing a DNF log on their page is a badge of honor for some, just as the FTF hunt is a big deal for others.

 

I wish all caches were properly rated and caches maintained. That includes the use of "Found it", "Did Not Find", "Needs Maintenance", "Needs Archived", "Owner Maintenance", "Reviewer Note", and "Write Note" logs. Ground rules and good tools make this game work. Not using the tools in careful compliment to each other is to the detriment of the game.

 

But that's jm2c

[+Planet]

A couple of reasons.

I like to post pictures of where I've been, and I might not pass this way again. I do that on interesting caches.

[+Planet]

Argh, I hit the button before I was done.

The other reason is to mark a spot, in case I do want to go back.

I do that on interesting caches too.

And, if I looked really hard, to let the owner know I couldn't find.

Problem is, I have such a backlog to log, I hope I can remember!

[+NeverSummer]

Yeah, I understand that it does help the community.

But as I said, why not post a note?

The way I see it, there are only 2 outcomes.

1. find the cache = success

2. don't find it = failure

As in many other sports, the goal is success, so I'm not proud of my failed attempts.

When playing dart, I don't count the number of times I missed the board

Yes you do. You just don't get "points" for those darts. I'm sure you know, roughly, how many times you miss the dartboard, on average. By keeping track of it on some level, you are able to get better and manage your game better. You adjust your throw if you miss the board, and eventually worry less and less about it. I logged a ton of DNFs when I first started caching. I was "bad" at finding caches...that's one way to look at it... Actually, I was just inexperienced. Now, my DNF ratio is less than it once was, but that's just because I know where most nanos can be attached, or what a pile of sticks in the woods near GZ generally means.

 

As an owner of a cache, I hope people log DNFs every single time. I want to know if something is up with my caches, so I can be a good maintainer of each cache. Without checking on them every single day, I would have very little understanding of what is going on for people's daily hunt. I might need to replace a cache, adjust coordinates, make a better hint, add or subtract attributes, etc. That makes the game better...in my opinion. But, that's just how I play the game and interpret the guidelines and Terms of Service, and use the tools provided by the website.

[+captnemo]

One of my goals is to go back and find my DNFs. If I didn't log them how would I know which caches to look for.

 

Oh, I also log them for the CO and really appreciate cachers who log them on my caches.

[+DanOCan]

The way I see it, there are only 2 outcomes.

1. find the cache = success

2. don't find it = failure

As in many other sports, the goal is success, so I'm not proud of my failed attempts.

 

I guess it all depends how you define "success". For me I consider it a success when I am having fun. Many of my DNFs are some of the best times I've had caching.

 

I DNF 11.2% of my cache attempts. Whether I posted them as Notes or DNFs, it wouldn't change the fact that I didn't find the cache so I don't see why fudging the log types helps.

[diggingest_dogg616]

I post DNF logs. If I really, really look for a cache and I can't find it, then I post DNF. If the last log is DNF, then I think "maybe it's not there" or "maybe they're not looking hard enough". If there are few DNFs then I start thinking more along the lines of "it's not there". If the cache owner has seen a string of DNF and went back out and checked and said it's there, then people aren't looking in the right spot and it's trickier than you'd think.

 

Here's my stats:

Found: 17 (don't laugh ) Also includes 1 Earthcache

DNF: 6

NM: 1 (Found it today and the description says there is a container but all I found was a zip lock bag with the log)

NA: 0

 

I think there's one DNF that could have been an NA. I looked and looked and couldn't find it. I'm fairly certain the bushes it was in have been cut down, but I'm not certain enough to say 100% beyond a doubt that it's gone

 

I feel that DNF=failure for some people and that it's not about what they didn't find, but what they did. If they play that way, then okay. I can at least understand where they're coming from.

 

The more I'm on this forum board, the more it seems that there is a huge stigma with posting NA logs. Some people seem to get bent about NM logs It seems a lot of people "give up" trying to do NM or NA because they're afraid of being attacked or are just tired of being attacked It seems like all they're trying to do is help and then words like "cache cop" are thrown around.

 

When I did my "Needs Maintenance" log, I was a little hesitant, but I did it because if there is supposed to be container and there isn't, then perhaps the CO would want to know. I'm not trying to "get up in their business" or "dictate" or "take over" or whatever. I just want to let them know. I don't want it archived. I just want to help. People stop helping when they feel like they're being harassed about it

[+NeverSummer]

I post DNF logs. If I really, really look for a cache and I can't find it, then I post DNF. If the last log is DNF, then I think "maybe it's not there" or "maybe they're not looking hard enough". If there are few DNFs then I start thinking more along the lines of "it's not there". If the cache owner has seen a string of DNF and went back out and checked and said it's there, then people aren't looking in the right spot and it's trickier than you'd think.

 

Here's my stats:

Found: 17 (don't laugh ) Also includes 1 Earthcache

DNF: 6

NM: 1 (Found it today and the description says there is a container but all I found was a zip lock bag with the log)

NA: 0

 

I think there's one DNF that could have been an NA. I looked and looked and couldn't find it. I'm fairly certain the bushes it was in have been cut down, but I'm not certain enough to say 100% beyond a doubt that it's gone

 

I feel that DNF=failure for some people and that it's not about what they didn't find, but what they did. If they play that way, then okay. I can at least understand where they're coming from.

 

The more I'm on this forum board, the more it seems that there is a huge stigma with posting NA logs. Some people seem to get bent about NM logs It seems a lot of people "give up" trying to do NM or NA because they're afraid of being attacked or are just tired of being attacked It seems like all they're trying to do is help and then words like "cache cop" are thrown around.

 

When I did my "Needs Maintenance" log, I was a little hesitant, but I did it because if there is supposed to be container and there isn't, then perhaps the CO would want to know. I'm not trying to "get up in their business" or "dictate" or "take over" or whatever. I just want to let them know. I don't want it archived. I just want to help. People stop helping when they feel like they're being harassed about it

It's a shame you were hesitant, for the reasons you listed. But, you used the tools provided by Groundspeak for geocaching through their website. Good on ya!