The new maps

2.5k · September 26, 2003

Well I see the new maps are finally here. I wonder if there is a waiting period before they get any more detail, or if this is as good as it gets.

I looked at some of them from the cache pages of caches I placed, and except for one located downtown, they seem to be missing street names.

Without the street names, they are perhaps a curiousity, but not much more help than the mapquest maps for finding a cache.

The most use I can see is viewing approximate positions from other caches I've found or plan to hunt.

I hope they get more detail in the future.

1.1k · September 26, 2003

announcement here

Jeremy Irish

Groundspeak - The Language of Location

1.2k · September 26, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by cachew nut:
Well I see the new maps are finally here. I wonder if there is a waiting period before they get any more detail, or if this is as good as it gets.

I looked at some of them from the cache pages of caches I placed, and except for one located downtown, they seem to be missing street names.

Without the street names, they are perhaps a curiousity, but not much more help than the mapquest maps for finding a cache.

The most use I can see is viewing approximate positions from other caches I've found or plan to hunt.

I hope they get more detail in the future.

CN why do I think that if the new maps crapped gold out your cd drive. you would want planinum.

Are you never happy??

Lapaglia

Muga Muchu (forget yourself, focus)

September 26, 2003

I think they are fine! I especially like that they again display a check on the caches you've found. It does say this is a premium feature.

One strange, although not really bad thing that I noticed: When you use the "Identify" radio button, the map displays and the page lists archived caches in the map area.

I'm pretty happy with the new maps. The detail level is fine for what I need--some kind of idea what side of the lake/freeway/creek the cache is on.

My compliments to TPTB!

Dave_W6DPS

My two cents worth, refunds available on request. (US funds only)

2.5k · September 26, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by Lapaglia:
CN why do I think that if the new maps crapped gold out your cd drive. you would want planinum.

Did I say I wanted platinum? I'm just giving my opinion. Jeremy's announcement says to discuss it in the forums, so I'm discussing the map feature, unlike you who is just trolling.

I'm just pointing out that usually maps have street names.

2.5k · September 26, 2003

I just rechecked the maps and the street names are now there. I guess I was right about them appearing after a waiting period. They look good, thanks J!

5.9k · September 26, 2003

What's different? It looks the same to me. Am I missing something?

http://fp1.centurytel.net/Criminal_Page/

2.5k · September 26, 2003

try them from a cache page or zip code search page

2.4k · September 26, 2003

I'm disappointed. I waited for the new maps...and I waited......and waited.....and..well you get the idea. They finally arive, and instead of being useful for a quick glance of caches found/not found, they're stuffed with goofy icons and crap. Looks like 10 pounds of stuff in a 5 pound bag. A simple dot for a cache, one color for caches I've found, another for caches I haven't found would be _much_ better. Guess I'll just continue to do as I was doing while waiting for the 'new maps'.....Make my own with Streets&Trips, and PQ's.....

Nothing to see here, move along.

9.4k · September 26, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by IV_Warrior:
I'm disappointed. I waited for the new maps...and I waited......and waited.....and..well you get the idea. They finally arive, and instead of being useful for a quick glance of caches found/not found, they're stuffed with goofy icons and crap. Looks like 10 pounds of stuff in a 5 pound bag. A simple dot for a cache, one color for caches I've found, another for caches I haven't found would be _much_ better. Guess I'll just continue to do as I was doing while waiting for the 'new maps'.....Make my own with Streets&Trips, and PQ's.....

Don't hold back now.

Jeremy Irish

Groundspeak - The Language of Location

2.5k · September 26, 2003

Hmm, different colored dots would be easier on the eyes, but I wonder what it would be like if you are zoomed too far out?

2k · September 26, 2003

Very attractive and very useful. I need to get use to them and see how everything works...but some stuff I wonder about:

1. Filtering? (Do I really want to see all the temporarily disabled? Can I chose? ... plus all the other "obvious" filters.)

Well, actually, that's the only thing I'm wondering about until I get back in and play some more...

September 26, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by Jeremy:

Don't hold back now.

The maps don't seem to be very detailed as far as street information, which make them of limited use. Cool to look at, but not sure how useful yet.

As a premium member, I utilize PQ's that I upload to a handheld that provides cache descriptions and export pushpins on mapping program.

********************************************

Fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me.

2.5k · September 26, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by GeoFool:

The maps don't seem to be very detailed as far as street information, which make them of limited use. Cool to look at, but not sure how useful yet.

GF why do I think that if the new maps crapped gold out your cd drive. you would want planinum.

Are you never happy??

2k · September 26, 2003

Is it possible to construct URL's that have the zoom (and any filtering) preset?

I'd like to be able to have shortcuts to a wide view of various areas, rather than starting with a close-up view and have to zoom out multiple times.

9.4k · September 26, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by GeoFool:

The maps don't seem to be very detailed as far as street information, which make them of limited use. Cool to look at, but not sure how useful yet.

Did you read my announcement? The text isn't showing up for some reason. We're contacting the map company. This was something that only started happening when a lot of people started banging on it.

Jeremy Irish

Groundspeak - The Language of Location

September 26, 2003

Is there a specific reason why the "you found this cache" checkmark is a Premium Member feature? Does it cost/use more... money, bandwidth, space, whatever... to utilize this feature, or was it just decided that this would be a perk for the paying members?

I'd complain that I've waited all this time for that feature to be re-installed, and now after all this time I don't get it because I'm no longer a paying member, but I'm afraid I'd get flamed for not being a paying member.

Otherwise, I think they look good for the first day.

Pan

Profanity is the crutch of the inarticulate, ***hole. - Unknown

2.5k · September 26, 2003

or maybe pre-defined zoom levels

9.4k · September 26, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by Pantalaimon:
Is there a specific reason why the "you found this cache" checkmark is a Premium Member feature? Does it cost more... whatever... to untilze this feature, or was it just decided that this would be a perk for the paying members?

Yes, it costs CPU utilization to build customized queries for every premium member.

Jeremy Irish

Groundspeak - The Language of Location

9.4k · September 26, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by cachew nut:
or maybe pre-defined zoom levels

We'll be adding this.

Jeremy Irish

Groundspeak - The Language of Location

September 26, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by Jeremy:
Yes, it costs CPU utilization to build customized queries for every premium member.

Ah. Thanks, good answer.

Pan

Profanity is the crutch of the inarticulate, ***hole. - Unknown

5.3k · September 26, 2003

The maps rock, Jeremy. Good job.

2k · September 26, 2003

The identify feature does not always show the 25 nearest caches.

I have one instance when only 7 caches were identified even though many more were on the map.

Are there other conditions (maximum distance?) or is this a bug?

September 26, 2003

Wait... maybe its late, but doesn't everything you do [on the site] cost "CPU utilization?"

I guess my question is, is it cost prohibitive to have this feature available to everyone?

Thanks,

Pan

Profanity is the crutch of the inarticulate, ***hole. - Unknown

September 26, 2003

What is the maximum ‘zoom out’ range? It seems to be stopping at 30 miles. When I was playing with it earlier, I was getting more than this.

As someone mentioned before, colored dots would make it easier to use. (Less cluttered)

********************************************

Fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me.

1.2k · September 26, 2003

Well, as one who used the previous setup extensively, I can only say -

BRAVO!! BRAVO!!

I can hardly wait for the encore!!

Well done, it's good to have the functionality back we were so used to. I'm sure there are aspects that will be improved as we go, but it is neat to see what has been done with the concept. I have only seen the difference this evening as I started to put together some caches for the kids and I to hunt tomorrow and I'm very pleased, very pleased indeed.

Once again, good job.

"Afghanistan was a battle. Iraq was a battle. The war goes on."

38.2k · September 26, 2003

Am I missing something? I don't see any difference at all between the new and old maps. Could I be looking in the wrong place?

"You can't make a man by standing a sheep on his hind legs. But by standing a flock of sheep in that position, you can make a crowd of men" - Max Beerbohm

2.7k · September 26, 2003

I really like what I see. I was on a short one day Cache hunt in AZ just before the new maps were up. And the new maps would of been a very helpful instrument when you are in unfamilar territory.

When I go to some of my Caches I like my little ghosts that appear all over my little town.

Thanks Thanks, keep up the good work.

Now when is UTMS's going to be available with the maps.

Tahosa - Dweller of Mountain Tops.

5.9k · September 26, 2003

OK, so how do you pan or zoom? I'm having a hard time getting excited about a map that shows five or so caches and nothing else. (98335)

http://fp1.centurytel.net/Criminal_Page/

September 26, 2003

This is not a gripe but rather my thoughts on the new map. I think the more you know about how people use the maps the better you’ll be able to design a map feature that meets people’s needs.

For my trip planning it is not very useful. Starting zoomed in on a particular cache and only zooming out to thirty miles, makes planning trips to other areas difficult. If I want detailed maps of a particular cache I’ll use my mapping software. Starting with a map of the whole state allows me to pick an area of interest, zoom to it and then identify individual caches. Also the old map was not as cluttered up with icons.

I have found the old maps by doing a new search on a particular state and then clicking the (map) link at the top of the page. Please don't change that feature.

TerraTrekkers

=[]=

Jim & Deb

5.9k · September 26, 2003

OK, I see it now. I was logging in but the site wasn't playing tonight. Log in-back to the log in page-log in- back to the log in page.

I opened it in Exploder and it let me log in this time. I do like the map much better. Now if I want to plan a deep woods hike I can see the caches along the way.

Good Job!

http://fp1.centurytel.net/Criminal_Page/

September 26, 2003

Neat little maps. I will stick to Pocket queries + Spinner + ExpertGPS though because:

1) They are bigger

2) They are faster

3) They display the names and difficulties next to the caches on the maps

9.4k · September 26, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by HitsMan and Chris:
Neat little maps. I will stick to Pocket queries + Spinner + ExpertGPS though because:

1) They are bigger

2) They are faster

3) They display the names and difficulties next to the caches on the maps

See? Something for everyone

Jeremy Irish

Groundspeak - The Language of Location

1.3k · September 26, 2003

I hope people will see this as constructive critisism and valid questioning. I'm not trying to complain - I think they're a HUGE step in the right direction. As it says on the page, it's a new feature and there are probably bugs to be worked out. It's also good to fix it so it's the best for the most users possible (you won't please everybody).

My 2 cents (not that anybody cares):

1. The maps are not EXACTLY what I expected. I had assumed (and you know what happens when you do that) that the maps would be replacing the STATE map pages also. I still see this:

quote:
Please note: Due to the high traffic the web site has been getting lately, we have had to disable listing caches you have found. We're working on a better mapping solution which should be available by the end of May. Sorry for the inconvenience.

will appear when you click on a map from the zipcode results page and cache detail page to indicate your starting point (or selected cache location).

Blue containers, Green containers, and Blue with a white checkbox are all geocaches.

Green containers indicate caches that have been placed in the last 7 days.

If you are logged in, caches you have found will be indicated with a white container having a checkbox inside.

at the bottom of my states map page and I figured that these maps used to show the checks. I know that the overall state page is to big (IE, it'd be very confusing in cache dense area) but I assumed you could zoom in from there for detail. Are there any plans to make it so that zooming in multiple times from the main state map shows the "new" maps (for reguler OR premium members) or is this too much trouble/etc?

On a smaller and related point - is there plans to show the area size of the maps? I know somebody mentioned predetermined zoom ranges (or something like that) so guess that may have been what you were talking about. I just ask because when I click on the map it's very much zoomed in in a zipcode (or a cache page).

2. The icons are a bit visually confusing. It's a good idea to have different symbols for all of the different types - but I personally think color/shape combinations would work better. Don't get me wrong, I'm not totally against this, it may just need a bit of tweaking - or maybe I'm wrong, but I've seen at least one other person mention something about this so I know I'm not alone in this opinion. Perhaps just use the same icons you use when you do a search? That would provide more consistancy to the webpage.

3. I'm confused on what's a premium feature and what's not a premium feature. On the new map page it says:

quote:
As a Premium Member you can zoom in, zoom out, and pan maps. Caches you have found are also marked. Visit the Premium Membership page for more information on member features.

but I can do all of that except Check/Uncheck caches. I'm not sure if the message is wrong or if the features aren't supposed to be there - but if you can't zoom in/out unless you're a premium member, why even show the maps? They're zoomed in so far that their usefulness would be very limited.

4. I always thought the (BEST) beside MapQuest was a bold statement - but having it beside the MSN maps is even bolder. MapQuest has it's drawbacks but saying one is BEST is an opinion. Perhaps (Suggested) would be a better term? - This isn't important, just a MINOR point.

I really like them. I guess I'll have to get around to paying for a premium membership, I've been so lazy (and money has been a little tight). I do think there may be the need for some 'tweaking' and more explanation but you expect that with new stuff.

Good work guys!

southdeltan

"Man can counterfeit everything except silence". - William Faulkner

1.7k · September 26, 2003

I didn't really use the maps before. I usually used *nearest cache* to pull up nearby caches. I like these maps and can easily see using these in the future. I'll probably play with them tonight to familiarize myself with them.

Till a voice, as bad as Conscience, rang interminable changes

On one everlasting Whisper day and night repeated -- so:

"Something hidden. Go and find it. Go and look behind the Ranges --

"Something lost behind the Ranges. Lost and waiting for you. Go!"

Rudyard Kipling , The Explorer 1898

1.3k · September 26, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by beejay&esskay:
Very attractive and very useful. I need to get use to them and see how everything works...but some stuff I wonder about:

1. Filtering? (Do I really want to see all the temporarily disabled? Can I chose? ... plus all the other "obvious" filters.)

Well, actually, that's the only thing I'm wondering about until I get back in and play some more...

I actually had figured there'd be a way to filter out finds - so all you see is unfound (would remove some of the clutter) but I can see why checks are better in some cases.

I still think that filtering stuff would be nice, even found caches.

I'm sure it also comes down to money/cpu.

southdeltan

"Man can counterfeit everything except silence". - William Faulkner

1.3k · September 26, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by southdeltan:

quote:
Originally posted by beejay&esskay:
Very attractive and very useful. I need to get use to them and see how everything works...but some stuff I wonder about:

1. Filtering? (Do I really want to see all the temporarily disabled? Can I chose? ... plus all the other "obvious" filters.)

Well, actually, that's the only thing I'm wondering about until I get back in and play some more...

I actually had figured there'd be a way to filter out finds - so all you see is unfound (would remove some of the clutter) but I can see why checks are better in some cases.

I still think that filtering stuff would be nice, even found caches.

I'm sure it also comes down to money/cpu.

southdeltan

"Man can counterfeit everything except silence". - William Faulkner

Seems I found an answer to this already:

quote:
Originally posted by Jeremy (Admin):

Caches you have found cannot be removed from the maps, due to the way the data is generated. However, I'll see if I can work in the ability for Identify to ignore listing caches you have found. Same for archived caches.

That makes sense. Hopefully it'll be possible to tweak identify to do this.

Time for me to go play with the Identify feature - I hadn't checked that feature out yet.

southdeltan

"Man can counterfeit everything except silence". - William Faulkner

September 26, 2003

The maps are much nicer than beige fields with green squares. I'm still not getting check marks even though I'm a premium member, but I'm assuming it's the same reason I don't see street names. (I'm using Netscape 7.1 for Mac OSX, BTW.)

I guess it's too early for me to criticise the symbols, as I'm not used to them. However, the initial general impression is that simple colored squares or circles would be more recognizable.

I totally agree with the searching aspect of the maps. 30 miles is a bit limiting. However, I personally like starting in the general area of the cache in question rather than starting with the whole state of California. It used to take a dozen zooms to get to a cache area. I like that particular new feature. Thanks.

One odd quirk I've noticed on clicking "identify" is that every cache that ever existed in the area shows up. This is good perhaps for admin approvers, but I don't need to see a cache that was archived 24 months ago. Those caches should just disappear.

Great job! I look forward to the improvements.

[This message was edited by Parsa on September 26, 2003 at 11:50 PM.]

1.3k · September 26, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by Parsa:
I totally agree with the searching aspect of the maps. 30 miles is a bit limiting. However, I personally like starting in the general area of the cache in question rather than starting with the whole state of California. It used to take a dozen zooms to get to a cache area. I like that particular new feature. Thanks.

I'm totally the opposite - I've gotten into the habit of starting from my states map and zooming in. I think there are probably a lot of people that do both of these things (and that do neither). In my state there aren't many cache-dense metro areas so it's often more useful to be able to see a larger area. I can see how it would be less useful in CA.

I wondered above if it would be possible to start from the larger maps and zoom into the newer maps.

quote:
One odd quirk I've noticed on clicking

quote:
identify
is that every cache that ever existed in the area shows up. This is good perhaps for admin approvers, but I don't need to see a cache that was archived 24 months ago. Those caches should just disappear.

I disagree. I LOVE this feature. There aren't many ways to find archived caches (unless you see it in a users find list). There are quite a few reason the archived caches should be there - but I can agree that some people don't need additional clutter. Jeremy said he'd work on some way to filter those out I think.

-----

Ok, after a bit of playing around with the Identify feature I noticed 2 annoying things.

1. I like how it numbers the geocaches (I'm assuming from the closest one OUT) but I think there needs to be a change in the background color or a line around the circle. It's easy to lose the number in the page for me.

2. Is there a reason there is no re-center option - or was this an oversight? I assumed that clicking on the map would recenter it to that spot, it just zooms in on the original center. I think a re-center option would be very useful.

southdeltan

"Man can counterfeit everything except silence". - William Faulkner

5.7k · September 26, 2003

The new maps are very cool. I thought the detail in my area was great. Much more useful than before. The zoom in/zoom out speed was good.

One little problem. If you have a lot of hides, your hides show up as an unfound cache. It makes my area near me look like there are a lot of caches I haven't done yet. Could you possibly add a Yellow Check for caches you own? That would make the maps much more useful (at least, when I'm looking closer to home, where my caches are higher in density.

Great job!

--Marky

"All of us get lost in the darkness, dreamers learn to steer with a backlit GPSr"

September 26, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by southdeltan:
2. Is there a reason there is no re-center option - or was this an oversight? I assumed that clicking on the map would recenter it to that spot, it just zooms in on the original center. I think a re-center option would be very useful.

Ahhhhh... that's a premium feature. If you are not a premium member, you can only zoom in and out a bit on the target cache, but you can't pan. To go to a new area, you have to go to another cache page and hit "map" again.

1.3k · September 26, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by Marky:
The new maps are very cool. I thought the detail in my area was great. Much more useful than before. The zoom in/zoom out speed was good.

One little problem. If you have a lot of hides, your hides show up as an unfound cache. It makes my area near me look like there are a lot of caches I haven't done yet. Could you possibly add a Yellow Check for caches you own? That would make the maps much more useful (at least, when I'm looking closer to home, where my caches are higher in density.

Great job!

--Marky

"All of us get lost in the darkness, dreamers learn to steer with a backlit GPSr"

That's a GREAT idea. I was wondering if there was any distinction between found/hidden geocaches.

southdeltan

"Man can counterfeit everything except silence". - William Faulkner

1.3k · September 27, 2003

quote:

quote:
Originally posted by Parsa:
I totally agree with the searching aspect of the maps. 30 miles is a bit limiting. However, I personally like starting in the general area of the cache in question rather than starting with the whole state of California. It used to take a dozen zooms to get to a cache area. I like that particular new feature. Thanks.

Ahhhhh... that's a premium feature. If you are not a premium member, you can only zoom in and out a bit on the target cache, but you can't pan. To go to a new area, you have to go to another cache page and hit "map" again.

That's strange - your reply to me was very confusing, it looks like some tags got left off... (IGNORE THIS - he fixed it)

I CAN pan and I'm not a premium member. I'm not sure if that's intended or not. (EDDITED to remove a question that was answered in an editted post, regarding re-center).

southdeltan

"Man can counterfeit everything except silence". - William Faulkner

September 27, 2003

What do you mean by recenter? If you mean clicking on another section of the map and having it center at that point, that is panning. The most you should be able to do as a non-premium member is zoom out to see other areas. How exactly are you panning to other areas? There are no pan arrows on the sides of the map.

1.3k · September 27, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by Parsa:
What do you mean by recenter? If you mean clicking on another section of the map and having it center at that point, that _is_ panning. The most you should be able to do as a non-premium member is zoom out to see other areas. How exactly are you panning to other areas? There are no pan arrows on the sides of the map.

In reference to the BOLD type above - you are mistaken.

Re-center: This selects a new center for the map.

Panning: Moves the maps left/right/up/down. This IS possible for non members now. (Click on PAN at the bottom then click on a side of the map, and it will move that direction)

Zoom out/in: Makes maps larger/smaller.

I'm not sure why non-members shouldn't be able to pan or recenter - they can with the OLD maps (that are still available at the top of the STATE pages). I can pan, just wondered why I can't recenter too.

southdeltan

"Man can counterfeit everything except silence". - William Faulkner

1.3k · September 27, 2003

Ok, this is very strange. I know I could pan a few minutes ago, but now I can't. I guess this was a glitch/bug that was fixed or resolved itself.

I can still zoom in/out and use identify.

I can understand that some of the features need to be members-only - but if you can't zoom in/out or use identify it will be less useful, imo, than the bigger maps.

southdeltan

"Man can counterfeit everything except silence". - William Faulkner

September 27, 2003

Great job, Jeremy! The one thing I miss is some sort of designation showing caches I placed as mine, instead of merely unfound. That and the street names, but I know those are coming!

September 27, 2003

I like it... I'm pretty new to this, so if this was once a feature that you had to remove, I have nothing to compare it too. Here is my opinion the feature and where to utilize it.

1) I'm with the color-coded dots as apposed to the icons. The only exception IMO would be for new caches and events.

2) I would prefer to have buttons for zoom in/out. This will leave two options for map clicking and make it more user-friendly.

3) Filtering would be great! The easiest way would be to have checkboxes next to your legend. Simply check or uncheck.

This leads into another feature I would LOVE to see...

Home Areas

From "My Cache Page" I would like to have some pre-defined points of interest. i.e. Home, Grandma's House, Mistress’s House. Each area would have a map, with all the local caches and descriptions below.

BTW:

Great job. It is nice to see an attitude toward continuous improvement.

4.8k · September 27, 2003

LOVE THE MAPS! They are way cool. Three thing though:

1. It would be nice to loose the archived caches. Not much use to have the icon for something that's not there.

2. On the "identify" part of the program, it would be nice to be able to have the download checkbox like on the search pages (in GPX format for my PDA). This feature would also come in handy if I Pan a route and download sections along a Hwy or trail.

3. Also would be helpful to identify my caches as "mine" so I don't download something I've already been to; or conversely just remove them altogether.

Even without the above, I'd still use this feature alot.

Mucho Gusto to Jeremy and TPTB

1.6k · September 27, 2003

After panning around on it a little my first impressions of the map are not nearly as exciting as when the new Nearest Cache list came out.

Suggestions:

-Create a &f=1 function to filter my finds/hides.

-Have the default zoom something other that zoomed right into my house. I have to click out a few times just to see the nearest cache, much less anything of interest.

Thanks!

CR

The new maps

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