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Who Can Hide A Cache


Red Ryder
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I believe until a cacher has found a predetermined number of caches, they should be restricted from hiding any. In to many cases, their hides are done poorly. The coords are bad, in some cases very bad, they place them in inappropriate places, and they often lack the experience to properly determine the difficulty or terrain rating.

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I believe until a cacher has found a predetermined number of caches, they should be restricted from hiding any. In to many cases, their hides are done poorly. The coords are bad, in some cases very bad, they place them in inappropriate places, and they often lack the experience to properly determine the difficulty or terrain rating.

Your newest looks to be in an awesome location! :lol:

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So this newbie just read about geocaching and has a great idea for a really cool custom made cache, with elaborate camo, that many people would love. He spends several days building it, then during a break, he dutifully reads the guidelines, and sees that he must find 10 caches first. So he loads his GPS with a dozen local caches, and goes out to find them. His first cache is an LPC. Next is a guardrail. Then another LPC. Then a nano on a stop sign. Then a couple more LPCs, a film can in the dirt at the bottom of another stop sign, then 3 more LPCs.

 

Now that he knows how a cache should be hidden, he goes home and throws his beautiful hand-made cache in the trash, and goes out and hides a film can under a lamp post skirt.

 

Please tell me how this has improved the game?

 

Edit for grammar.

Edited by Lil Devil
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I believe until a cacher has found a predetermined number of caches, they should be restricted from hiding any. In to many cases, their hides are done poorly. The coords are bad, in some cases very bad, they place them in inappropriate places, and they often lack the experience to properly determine the difficulty or terrain rating.

 

Probably will never happen. And neither will a set of time before one could post a cache -- I'd like to see 2 months registration before someone can publish a cache, should weed out the fly-by-nighters.

 

Our only recourse is to educate new cacher owners who hide poorly. Provide constructive criticism in your online log.

Edited by Lone R
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So this newbie just read about geocaching and has a great idea for a really cool custom made cache, with elaborate camo, that many people would love. He dutifully reads the guidelines, and sees that he must find 10 caches first. So he loads his GPS with a dozen local caches, and goes out to find them. His first cache is an LPC. Next is a guardrail. Then another LPC. Then a nano on a stop sign. Then a couple more LPCs, a film can in the dirt at the bottom of another stop sign, then 3 more LPCs.

 

Now that he knows how a cache should be hidden, he goes home and throws his beautiful hand-made cache in the trash, and goes out and hides a film can under a lamp post skirt.

 

Please tell me how this has improved the game?

 

Edit for grammar.

 

It is easy to make up a hypothetical like that and pretend is a general truth. I could say “In a burst of enthusiasm a newbie hides 7 poorly designed and poorly hidden caches. Sadly these are the first 7 another new cacher finds. Disappointed with caching the second newbie quits caching forever.”

But in fact both scenarios would only hold true a small percentage of the time. Hopefully a new or a seasoned cacher would hold off hiding a cache until they were able to make a quality cache and I don’t think we need to regulate the hobby any more than necessary.

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No. Most of the lousy caches are placed by people who have hundreds or thousands of hides.

 

Yes, there are a few that start off bad and stay bad. Luckily there aren't very many of those. I can think of 2.

 

But there are far too many fly-by-nighters experimenting with this new-fangled game they just heard of. A time-restraint and small number of cache finds would discourage toe-dipping behavior - to plunge quickly into the game without understanding it and just as quickly leave it. If people can't wait 2 months and find say 10 caches, will they be responsible COs? How could they be if 2 months is too long to stick with the hobby and they have no interest in finding a few caches?

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I believe until a cacher has found a predetermined number of caches, they should be restricted from hiding any. In to many cases, their hides are done poorly. The coords are bad, in some cases very bad, they place them in inappropriate places, and they often lack the experience to properly determine the difficulty or terrain rating.

 

I've seen many caches that fit that bill entirely, and they were placed by users who have been in the game for a long time and have find counts in the thousands.

 

What Lil Devil says is true to an extent, but there will be people who find those crappy hides and decide they want to do better. What it all boils down to as far as quality hides go, is some people just get it and others don't, and no amount of prerequisite experience is going to change that.

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So this newbie just read about geocaching and has a great idea for a really cool custom made cache, with elaborate camo, that many people would love. He dutifully reads the guidelines, and sees that he must find 10 caches first. So he loads his GPS with a dozen local caches, and goes out to find them. His first cache is an LPC. Next is a guardrail. Then another LPC. Then a nano on a stop sign. Then a couple more LPCs, a film can in the dirt at the bottom of another stop sign, then 3 more LPCs.

 

Now that he knows how a cache should be hidden, he goes home and throws his beautiful hand-made cache in the trash, and goes out and hides a film can under a lamp post skirt.

 

Please tell me how this has improved the game?

 

Edit for grammar.

 

It is easy to make up a hypothetical like that and pretend is a general truth. I could say “In a burst of enthusiasm a newbie hides 7 poorly designed and poorly hidden caches. Sadly these are the first 7 another new cacher finds. Disappointed with caching the second newbie quits caching forever.”

But in fact both scenarios would only hold true a small percentage of the time. Hopefully a new or a seasoned cacher would hold off hiding a cache until they were able to make a quality cache and I don’t think we need to regulate the hobby any more than necessary.

 

If a newbie wants to hide a cache and finds out that there is a rule that requires 20, 50, whatever finds before he can hide, what do you think he's gonna do?

 

He'll probably go out and find the requisite number as quickly as possible, meaning that he's gonna go after a bunch of park and grabs. What exactly will he learn by doing that? I mean besides that geocaching is all about putting a slip of paper in a film canister and hiding it in Home Depot parking lot.

 

I've seen some awesome caches hidden by novices and many awful caches hidden by people with hundreds, or thousands of finds. The number of finds under one's belt has little bearing on the quality of someone's caches. It's more important to read the guidelines and there are people with dozens of hides who obviously have never done so.

Edited by briansnat
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Is twopoms back?

 

*twopoms was a hider in Red Ryder's area a number of years back. He had maybe one or two finds but hid hundreds are similar caches in what for the most part were not the best locations. The local forums (as well as at least one thread in this forum) were full of suggestions that people should have to have a certain number of finds before hiding caches.

 

As twopoms caches started needing maintenance, some people would quickly post needs maintenance or needs archive on his caches. He wasn't able to keep up with maintenance and the reviewers began archiving his caches. Eventually he quit caching altogether feeling a bit unappreciated. There are still a few of his caches around but most are long past. And there are certainly debates as what influence he had on hiding styles of those who came after him. Some actually think that he was used as an example of how not to hide caches and that the overall quality improved a little.

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I've seen some awesome caches hidden by novices.

 

They would still hide awesome caches 2 months after registration. If they won't stick around and play the game for 2 months, what are the chances that they'd be a responsible cache owner? So forget the cache find suggestion, what would be the problem with a short wait period?

Edited by Lone R
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I agree with what is said here for sure but there is always the exception that might make a rule like this not so cool. I have taken my nephew who was blown up in the san bruno pg&e pipeline explosion to a bunch of caches. He has not set up an account yet but has found a bunch. He wants to set up one for his girlfriend who was killed in the explosion. I want it to be under his account so he can see the logs that are on it and take care of it. So when we hide it he is going to set up his account. He would not be able to do that with this rule and it will be a quality cache. I will also watch it and make sure it is ok. I have placed out a few caches and am new but I knew when I found this that I liked it and started building cool stuff to hide. If you took away the excitement from new members to make up hides it could loose there interest. I agree that it is the hider no matter how many finds or time in this that makes up a good cache. Some will get it right away and others may never get it.

-WarNinjas

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One of my absolute favorite, creative, challenging caches was someone's very first cache placement. It was fantastic! It took me two trips to another city, about 7 hours of work in the field, some hiking at night, some very challenging puzzles in the field, and I when we were done I said to myself, "That was an awesome cache!"

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Here's what Jeremy wrote when this suggestion was declined in the feedback forums:

We don’t have plans to restrict any user the ability to submit a new geocache based on their number of finds. As mentioned by other users, there is no magic number of cache finds to make a person worthy of placing a cache.

 

Instead of creating automated restrictions, our goal is to create features to reward geocachers for creating good caches. The “favorites” feature is one such example.

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I believe until a cacher has found a predetermined number of caches, they should be restricted from hiding any. In to many cases, their hides are done poorly. The coords are bad, in some cases very bad, they place them in inappropriate places, and they often lack the experience to properly determine the difficulty or terrain rating.

 

I do not agree.

This cache

http://www.geocaching.com/seek/cache_details.aspx?guid=7b048f61-cca0-4491-a95b-3c07e3f9a269

has been hidden before the hider has found a cache and it is one of the very best

caches in Styria (province of Austria). Most experienced cachers could be proud if they came up with such a cache.

 

Wrong D/T-ratings can be easily adapted based on the experiences of the visitors - I also did that numerous times and not due to a lack of experience.

 

Cezanne

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Here's what Jeremy wrote when this suggestion was declined in the feedback forums:

We don’t have plans to restrict any user the ability to submit a new geocache based on their number of finds. As mentioned by other users, there is no magic number of cache finds to make a person worthy of placing a cache.

 

Instead of creating automated restrictions, our goal is to create features to reward geocachers for creating good caches. The “favorites” feature is one such example.

 

I think it's pretty clear that Groundspeak will never implement a system which restricts the placement of caches based on the number of finds or how long someone has been geocaching.

 

However, there was another feedback suggestion that *has* been considered that I think has some merit. That would be some sort of quiz/test based upon the guidelines which must be passed before one can place a cache. Someone could take the test as often as necessary until they got all the answers correct. Currently, in order to place a cache, one merely has to click a box which indicates that they've read and understand the guidelines which is probably just as effective as clicking a "I agree to the terms of service" box on some other web site. A quiz which asks questions about proximity, buried caches, public/private property (including schools, railroads, and other sensitive areas), property defacement, selecting an appropriate location and container, and labeling the container would all reinforce the importance of understanding these guidelines.

 

As far as I'm concerned, as long as a cache owner understands the guidelines and the reasons behind them they're ready to place a cache. It'll be pretty clear after a few placements whether a particular hider possesses the creativity, imagination, and other more nebulous attributes that make for an "awesome cache".

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There are always going to be exceptions, the newcomers to the game that conceive fantastic caches, the special circumstances like the memorial cache posted above, but in the vast majority of cases, I think it makes perfect sense to place some time or find limit on a newcomer placing caches.

 

It doesn't have to be a huge amount of finds or a long time playing, as all I would want it to do is to ensure new cachers have some experience of the game, what does and doesn't work and some inclination they are going to stick around. This way they can hopefully find a few caches in the wild, learn a little about what does and doesn't work (and what they do and don't like finding), and also give them a taste for the game so that they themselves will know they want to play, and not give up a few weeks later and leave 100 orphaned caches all shortly needing maintenance after poor container choices or poor hiding that leaves half of them wet or muggled.

 

If I was a new cacher and had some great ideas? Cool I will use them once I have gotten into the game a bit more and figured out whether they are actually good ideas and will work or not... In fact this is what I have been planning on myself - I have planned on placing a cache since I first found a few of them, but I have been hanging back and figuring out the game before diving in.

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Every day, thousands of people in the US pass a test to acquire a drivers license, thus proving that they know how to safely operate a motor vehicle and have an adequate understanding of traffic laws and know what the signals and signage mean. Yet everyday I see dozens of drivers on the road who seemingly have no idea how to operate their vehicle. Many have no concept of the right of way rules, and don't know what the signals and signs mean. I see people park in no parking areas, in loading zones, in front of hydrants, block driveways and entrances, ignore posted speed limits, cut off other drivers, double park, etc. These drivers pose a nuisance and sometimes even a danger to everyone else on the road, yet they all passed the drivers test at some point in time. I'm just sayin....

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There is a local cacher who prefers to hide than find...and he's rather good at it. Some of the sneakiest hides come from new cachers. However, abandonment of the game and the caches is my biggest concern. Maintenance - will you do that promptly? Will you remove your cache when you archive it/leave the game? Someone once said, "read, read and read AGAIN the guidelines for hiding a cache."

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Every day, thousands of people in the US pass a test to acquire a drivers license, thus proving that they know how to safely operate a motor vehicle and have an adequate understanding of traffic laws and know what the signals and signage mean. Yet everyday I see dozens of drivers on the road who seemingly have no idea how to operate their vehicle. Many have no concept of the right of way rules, and don't know what the signals and signs mean. I see people park in no parking areas, in loading zones, in front of hydrants, block driveways and entrances, ignore posted speed limits, cut off other drivers, double park, etc. These drivers pose a nuisance and sometimes even a danger to everyone else on the road, yet they all passed the drivers test at some point in time. I'm just sayin....

<Decided against it after all>

Edited by pnpure
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No. Most of the lousy caches are placed by people who have hundreds or thousands of hides.

 

I thought we weren't allowed to suggest people place lousy hides.

 

No. We're not allowed to suggest what is a lousy hide. Which is what I find shocking about this thread so far. Can we have an "every cache is a gift" advocate in here? :lol:

 

I'd never go for the x number of finds thing. A waiting period, or a test? I could be swayed in that direction.

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I believe until a cacher has found a predetermined number of caches, they should be restricted from hiding any. In to many cases, their hides are done poorly. The coords are bad, in some cases very bad, they place them in inappropriate places, and they often lack the experience to properly determine the difficulty or terrain rating.

if hider has less than 25 finds, i let the hounds debug his bad coords THEN look for it.

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Every cache is a gift :lol: Actually, the variety of caches - micro to macro, simple to stupefying - is what makes a great game for all of us. Whatever you want to hide, someone wants to find it. The only thing we beg is PLEASE MAINTAIN IT!!!

 

Keep it clean, keep it dry, replace full logs. That's what really makes a great cache (IMO)

 

Of course, having said that, I'm all for the two month rule...

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Every cache is a gift :lol: Actually, the variety of caches - micro to macro, simple to stupefying - is what makes a great game for all of us. Whatever you want to hide, someone wants to find it. The only thing we beg is PLEASE MAINTAIN IT!!!

 

Keep it clean, keep it dry, replace full logs. That's what really makes a great cache (IMO)

 

Of course, having said that, I'm all for the two month rule...

 

Hey, thanks! I didn't think anyone would take that bait. It also made me look at my post again, and see that BlueDeuce said the same thing I did, but I misread it. Oh well. Yes, maintain those caches, whatever you place. Thank you.

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Every day, thousands of people in the US pass a test to acquire a drivers license, thus proving that they know how to safely operate a motor vehicle and have an adequate understanding of traffic laws and know what the signals and signage mean. Yet everyday I see dozens of drivers on the road who seemingly have no idea how to operate their vehicle. Many have no concept of the right of way rules, and don't know what the signals and signs mean. I see people park in no parking areas, in loading zones, in front of hydrants, block driveways and entrances, ignore posted speed limits, cut off other drivers, double park, etc. These drivers pose a nuisance and sometimes even a danger to everyone else on the road, yet they all passed the drivers test at some point in time. I'm just sayin....

 

The scary part is... not all of them are geocaching.

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I know this is a old topic and beat into the ground a lot then resurrected and beat down again. you can do some research with one push of a button to see how long the person has been playing before you go to find their geocache. I myself only found nanos Altoids tins and LPCs for the first month. Then I made my first hide. A altoids tin on a pub. I was so proud of it. That was only 1 and a half years ago. It's still active and I get logs every few days. Then I stumbled on to a cacher named mr.and mrs. Smiths. That was the end of my altoids pub lpc Nano hides or finds. the people I started with are into 400 500 finds now and are content with the small log only hides and that's great. I have not passed the 200 mark because of the caches I choose. Now back to the mr.and mrS. Smiths they in my opinion where some of the best urban camo developers in there time. they specialized in in your face out in the open geocaches. I then knew what geocaching was all about.and have put out some quality hides one that has favorites from some big name cachers In my area. one popular one was put out in my first month and a half of playing. So my point is this. Be more selective of the caches you seek and u won't have to worry about bad hides. if u want to hide a cache before u ever find a single one more power to u I'll FTF it anywaY. Or I'll pass Cuz I can see ur profile.

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