Narcosynthesis

Hello, I did try searching for an answer to this one, but didn't dig up anything (apologies if that comes down to my stupidity rather than lack of previous posts)... I recently picked up a trackable (TB48QKG) in a cache, but it is currently logged as in the hands of another cacher. Is there a way to log this correctly so that it shows where the TB was found (and logs all the distance and suchlike)? IIRC there was a 'retrieved from' log type before, which is not appearing (only grabbed, discovered, note) so I m not sure how to do this without just grabbing it from the current possessor and logging it in the cache I found it in myself.

I would be happy to place one in a cache somewhere near me - Aberdeen, Scotland

If she is going to the bother of logging it as visited in the caches she has visited since retrieving it, I would assume that she isn't intending keeping it permanently, but just hasn't been able to drop it yet - fairly reasonable if she hasn't had time to cache as much lately, and what she has found have all been unsuitable for dropping a trackable. Perhaps not ideal to see an item stay with one person, but she is taking it travelling, and it will be back in the wild again soon enough if you are just patient. If anything it is reassuring to know that it is in safe hands and hasn't just vanished off the face of the earth...

I would hazard a guess that there has been a shift away from 'hiking' geocaches to ones easier to get to. If you think about it, one of the main (though not necessary) items for geocaching is a GPS unit, which ten years ago were only really owned by those who bought them for hiking and walking as they were fairly limited and pretty expensive. The people that took part on the sport were therefore biased towards enthusiastic outdoors sorts, so thats where they placed the caches. Nowadays most smartphones seem to come with a GPS as standard, so the stepping stone into the hobby has been lowered drastically from the hundreds of dollars a GPS used to cost to the fairly negligible price of an app for a smartphone. This means more people can get into the sport, and they will mainly be the average person, not the hardened hiker, so the caches they start putting out will reflect that - ideally I would hope still with the same level of interest and difficulty in most cases, but certainly more appropriate for the average joe accompanied by his kids and so on. If you enjoy the hiking caches, then put them out and there will still be a range of people interested in finding them (such as myself - the description of your new one sounds god fun). Maybe not as many as an urban one that can be done with kids in tow, but nt every cache will suit every cacher.

I think it is a nice idea, as long as you can take the time to do it properly and can live with the results, good or bad. The first thing to remember is that a lot of TB's go missing, so don't send off your only memories of a beloved pet that you cannot afford to lose, if you want to send out ashes then perhaps only sending out a small amount might be appropriate? You still have something at home and part of your pet can go travelling. If not then perhaps doing something in her memory like an appropriate avatar (a similar type toy dog) or appropriate charity token (all the various pet charities, guide dogs, RSPCA, etc...) or putting out a cache in her memory instead somewhere appropriately meaningful. Secondly, remember that you are essentially sending out the remains of a creature, so make doubly and triply sure to have it sealed and marked as such - make sure the container will survive and not crack open, make sure the lid is sealed properly (plus I would tape up the edge to make it obvious and stop someone thinking it is just screwed on tightly and forcing it), and make sure it is marked *clearly* as to what it is inside - not everyone will be happy handling it, so make sure they can easily see what it is and give them the choice. I like the idea, and would personally make more of an effort to give it some meaningful travels compared to a small toy or something with little back story or meaning behind it that I may leave behind. At the same time there are others out there who will want nothing at all to do with something of this sort, but with all precautions taken, it is a nice thing to do.

Firstly and most importantly, I think it is well worth remembering that once in a wild a trackable is essentially gone - it may travel, it may be lost or forgotten about by uncaring geocachers, or it may be muggled and lost for good. So I would only ever send out something you can afford to lose, and *never* anything of value (sentimental or monetary). I really assume that once placed I will never see a trackable again, and every time it moved it is a bonus for me. Not really an idea way to have to think, but a realistic one unfortunately. Unfortunately emailing the current holder is the only way to get in touch, so make sure you have all your settings correct to be sure they can reply, and see what they say - remember to be very nice and positive about it, and ask nicely if they would be able to place it soon or perhaps (as mentioned above) allow you to send them a prepaid envelope or something to return it. I think there are a to of people out there who enjoy geocaching and pick up TB's with good intentions, but then get caught up in real life and cannot return them to the wild - technical issues, family issues and so on - it might be worth checking out their profile to see what caching they have actually done recently to give you an idea of how active they are. Unfortunately though, if they don't get the emails, or ignore them, then you are left back at point #1...

One thing I would consider is that you are not really reusing the code, as that code is still attached to that traveller in particular (especially if it is a coin or other logo'ed item), you are instead sending out a replacement for that item. So I would make something that related to it and keeps the spirit of the original item intact - for coins I have seen laminated paper or wooden replacements (with the image printed on it or drawn on), for TB tags it is up to you how you want to do it. I would create your new one, and place it in a cache with a note stating that it is a proxy that has been re-released. If possible I would also see if you can edit the name or page to state clearly it is now a proxy too, as some seem to take offence at going to find a nice geocoin and only discovering a paper proxy instead.

What you should have done was 'discovered' the TB - that is to say you have found it in a cache other than the one it was listed in. This way the system assumes it has hopped form one cache to the next, and you have found it where it actually was. You retrieve it when you find it in the listed cache, and grab it when you get it from another cacher or source other than finding it in a cache. At the same time, it is worth giving it a few days before logging if you find it in another cache - it is quite possible that the previous carrier moved it form the listed cache to where you found it, but hasn't had time to log it - give it a few days to see if they do log it (remembering not everyone logs from a smartphone, so it can take a few days before some get round to it) then log it as appropriate.

You have to be patient with travel bugs... Don't expect them to be moving every second day, and when they have been picked up allow some time for the geocacher to place them again - not everyone caches every day, or even every week... If it has a specific mission, I would also allow some extra leeway for that - if i find a travel bug with a mission to get to x, and I know I am going to be going there next month, it would make sense to many to take a bit longer than the typical to help its mission more. In your case the geocacher who has it is logging it through other caches they are visiting, which would say to me that they are taking care of the bug and have a specific plan for it, and have not just forgotten about it. The first bug I put out last summer is still in the hands of the first person to find it - someone who has found a decent amount of caches, and she has logged it as a visitor to show it hasn't been forgotten about, so I am happy to see where it ends up...

The one thing to remember when writing anything would be 'will this ruin the hunt for someone else?' Mentioning a geocache in particular, GC code or about your adventure is not going to spoil anything - it is all available freely on the geocaching site so won't be ruining anything. Mentioning swag I would possibly avoid (so as to prevent people/thieves heading out only for the swag) but trackables would be fine - again they are listed on the cache page, so not exactly a secret (though remember to use the public code, not the private one on teh tag itself) I would avoid anything specific about the exact GZ, pictures of the cache or any details about how it is hidden beyond what is mentioned on the cache page.

If you cannot adequately maintain the cache, then it won't be allowed on geocaching.com - if you are having to ask someone to go to the site to get the co-ordinates for you, you certainly won't be able to pop over to visit it to checkup on your cache and make sure the logbook is dry and still has space and the contents are still safe and appropriate... If you will be visiting the area regularly, get the co-ordinates yourself when you are next out. If you are never going to be back, I would try and get in touch with some local geocachers with the aim of getting one of them to collect your cache (which is currently essentially litter) and either post it back to you or reuse it himself.

I am not sure about it being a regional thing, or even a rudeness one - more an inexperience thing when people don't think what they are doing through properly... I have been out many times with groups who don't spend much time outdoors, so don't even consider the branch whipping back until someone gets clocked by one. As for how to solve the problem, either bunch up close or spread out - close together you can 'pass' the branches back so the person behind can stop them and not get hit. Spread out you leave enough space so that when the branch does whip back, it misses you, then you shove past it yourself.

I would guess it is someone new, not realising that the photos they normally see will only ever show the rough location, or the cache container in a different position, but won't give away the exact hide (only the area the GPS will take you to anyway). You have two choices depending on urgency - 1. Email the cacher in question, explain the problem and ask them to delete the image - this obviously won't be instant as it depends on when the cacher checks emails and follows up on them. If you get no response you will have to move on to number two anyway. 2. If you are worried about the picture spoiling the search for future cachers, then deleting the whole log will remove it, and the picture. Generally not considered quite as polite, but as long as you explain why you have deleted the log and ask them to relog appropriately (ie without the picture) then I see no problem. The difference for me would be in how regularly the cache is being found - if it is being found daily, a few days delay inbetween the email and the image being deleted could ruin the search for a number of cachers which I don't consider particularly fair, and worth a bit of (acceptabl) rudeness towards the picture poster. If it is being found every few weeks or rarer, then the delay might catch out someone, but probably not particularly many.

As I see it, if I don't find the cache, I don't log a find - I do not know whether the obvious place a cache could be *is* where it should be and it is missing, or a red herring and the cache is in its proper home. If after the fact I speak to the owner, explain where I thought it should be and he agree's I was in the right place and the cache missing and offers me the find than that is something different. As for replacing the cache, again, a definite no for me - if the cache is still there and I just failed at finding it, all I have done is confuse matters and added a wrongly placed cache for others to find. At the same time I will say that replacing a damaged cache with an appropriate equivalent is a nice idea, assuming you have the damaged one in hand and replace it as is. In the end for me though, I don't really care whether I get a smiley or not - for me the numbers are only a marker of where I have been, not the main reason for doing it. If I log a DNF it makes no difference to my day of wandering about outdoors searching...

The cache owner, however negligent, is still the owner of the cache, so to claim them for your own would effectively be theft without the permission of the owner. What you can do: Try and email the owner to adopt the caches to yourself. Continue as you are, doing the grunt work of keeping the caches maintained, but without any jurisdiction over the cache page or cache in a legal sense. Log the caches as appropriate - log a needs maintenance when appropriate, and if that is not dealt with (which based on what you said, it won't) then log a needs archived. A review will then hopefully archive them, freeing up the area for you to place new caches of your own without the dead caches interfering with the minimum distance rule. As for the old caches there, i guess they effectively become litter, and if the owner takes no steps to recover them should be CITO after an appropriate period the same way you would an empty bag of crisps or juice bottle.

If it fits the theme, go for it. Especially with something like a historical based cache, it is pretty obvious whether it is a list created to try and get visits to otherwise uninteresting caches, or as an attempt to create something interesting - if you are putting the effort into the caches as you are the list, then I see no problem whatsoever.

A travelling cache used to be allowed - I know of seeing at least one that when found, you took with you and re-hid elsewhere. There are still a few of these out there, which were created before the rules changed and are now 'grandfathered' which allows them to still exist as intended, even if new ones are not allowed. From that you cannot make a cache that travels, but you can easily make a cache container a travel bug - noting that instead of having a geocache page, it will have a travel bug one, and essentially be no different to a keyring, toy or anything else out there as a TB. So moving between caches rather than being a hide of its own. If you want to introduce a swag element to it and allow swaps within your travel bug then that is entirely up to you.

Based on other threads and 'common' opinion, "Is it rude to put TB's in your own cache?" - both yes and no... The difference as I see it is whether you are moving TB's around for the fun of moving them, or hoarding them as some form of incentive to going to your cache... TB's are meant to move, so if you can help them move about then great, by all means go for it, and if a cache of your own is the most appropriate for whatever reason then that is cool. As I see it a cache is a cache, and if it helps the journey then great. What does become an issue is when you hear of owners collecting lots of TB's with the sole intention of filling up their own caches with them as some form of 'draw' to get other cachers visiting their caches. This (while technically perfectly legal) is frowned upon - this way means TB's are getting placed into a small range of caches which opens the door for muggles or thieves to find a whole cache full of cool items, and in one case mentioned on the forum lately had the owner putting TB's into a high difficulty cache, where traffic is always going to be limited, effectively putting the bugs into 'storage' until enough people come and find them. It is worth noting that you don't need to be an owner or be new to a cache to place a TB there - If you go and revisit an already found cache to drop a TB, just log it in a note that the TB was dropped rather than claiming a find.

It sounds like a pretty fun idea to me. A few things to remember would be that a cache needs to be permanent, so if you put it up for the season, it will still be viable afterwards into the new year - I see no problem if you hid a normal cache, then added the extra christmas theme for the appropriate season, removing it afterwards and leaving a normal cache with a cool story. I guess you could even make the hide theme appropriate then change it afterwards (no different from a cache getting muggled and swapped for a different container later). Litter could be an issue - decorations like tinsel could easily blow away, or paper decorations getting wet and creating a mess so those wouldn't be ideal, and after the season I guess the decorations will need to be taken down and the cache area cleaned up which will be another job for yourself (remembering to do it in appropriate time to prevent bad luck befalling your cache). It is also worth noting that Groundspeak don't allow caches with additional rules added (you must do x action to get the smiley) so while you can promote the decorations, you can't demand them of cachers.

Typically you are not allowed to place a cache out with where you live as it won't be practical to maintain it properly - the vacation cache problem of someone placing a cache on holiday then having nothing more to do with it (as logs full, maintenance is needed and so on). If you are regularly travelling to the area I would have assumed it should be okay for you to place and own - get in touch with the local reviewer, explain the situation and see if he will grant you the permission. I know there are many, many caches placed in location people regularly travel to for work or to visit family and so on.

Somebody tried to bring something to the attention of you (and other geocachers) in a slightly inadvisable way. You throw your toys out of the pram... Without seeing his log I can't obviously say for sure, but either way it my have acted as a warning that there is private land nearby, so be respectful. Perhaps it was a dig at you for your cache placement, I don't know for sure or what he even said to go with the photo, let alone specific wording that could be misunderstood. Instead of deleting his log without explanation, the polite way to have done it would be to email the cacher in question and ask him to remove the picture (with your justification). If he doesn't respond within a timely manner, then delete his log yourself, making sure to add a note to say exactly why you are deleting it and inviting him to relog without the picture, not just deleting it outright without an explanation. You state that you feel him rude to have added the picture without contacting you first, you are no better. As for archiving a cache because of one poor experience, that just seems petty. Land ownership is not always obvious, so I would feel it appropriate to mention that there is private land nearby a cache, and to make sure of your routing - for a cache you set up it would be well worth mentioning on the page, and possibly including some waypoints as to a safe route in and out to avoid cachers going for an aternative through private land.

I can't see any way in which a rule preventing poorer quality caches could be implimented without risking a lot of good caches too - there is no way to say for sure how much thought or effort an owner has put into choosing a nice location - there could just as easily be four or five points of historical attention a well planned owner wants to direct geocachers to in a small area as there could be five poor quality throwdowns hidden to bolster the numbers. All I can say is that if you find what you consider a poorer quality cache, make sure to log any problems, and it should hopefully become apparent whether the owner is keeping on top of maintenance and problems (in which case good for them, even if it is an uninspiring series), or whether they are uncaring and leaving them to ruin, in which case they should be archived and the area cleared for a new owner.

I would also wander about the subtleties of the rules - it is not the cache itself that is being buried, but the 'housing' the cache is hidden in - from groundspeaks end, the initial digging is done with the full landowners permission, and to retrieve the cache no digging is required, so shouldn't start a trend of digging about trying to find a buried cache (as I believe the rule is mainly in place to guard against. Certainly there is the chance for a copycat hide, which should be shot down fairly quickly by reviewers if they don't see the relevant permissions.

Surely something of a moot point when we can click through to a users profile and see a list of exact locations they have visited and on which days they were there... A location tag I feel would be a good idea - letting you know the rough location of where someone is gives you an idea about the caches they are speaking about and the local 'unwritten rules' as such - speaking about tresspass, guns and other issues can be hugely location dependant. As for it being a check box on the admins page, I very much doubt that otherwise why wouldn't they have enabled it when they moved forum? Not all forums have the same functionality, so I would wander if it may be slightly more involved to add than some believe.

A lot of TB's missing from a cache will have just been moved on as intended, just not logged properly. So they will be MIA until someone finds them in their new cache and logs them there. It is also possible that they have been picked up recently but just not logged yet - many won't be able to log 'officially' until they get home or to internet access, so if it was picked up shortly before you got there, it is possible it will appear when they log their recent finds. I would have a look at the recent logs to see if there is any mention of picking up the TB (and if so an email to the person to remind them to log it could be in order), and mention it in your own log that there were TB's listed, but none in the cache. This I believe can also be done on the TB's page to let the owner know too.